OrlandoDon

Here me out with this one, but Brian Irvine was very similar in ability and effort to Darren Mackie. Mackie is a very average forward/squad player who plays some stinkers but has scored a few very important goals for us. Loves the club and will do anything for us. Brian was a very average central defender, although you could say we were spoiled with McLeish and Miller. I always saw him as too nice of a defender, was slow, tended to over commit and get beaten, but came up with a big goal here and there. However, he had some absolute stinkers and guifted a fair few goals. However, he is/was a tremendously nice guy, religious, and would do anything for AFC so very difficult to give him dogs abuse since he was very popular and did wear his heart on the jersey. As was mentioned, he was at the heart of the defence when we fought relegation - coincidence?

Interesting thoughts Ajja and I'll add my opinion. The reasonable expectation debate is the one that has killed me for years, especially since JC took over as I don't think it's unreasonable to expect third, achieving a cup final, and Europe. We always seem to shoot ourselves in the foot - last year versus Dundee Utd and QOS in the cups for example, and yesterday when we had a great opportunity with Hearts and Dundee Utd drawing and we play the bottom of the league team. We tend to let ourselves down far too regularly with a poor (attitude) performance and that is what irritates the fans most - we beat ourselves more than lose to quality opposition. The next level is consistency and this to me is the JC argument - I think we have JC's product, a middle of the league/slightly above average reasonably consistent team - currently 5th, last yr 4th, a 3rd, 6th, and 4th his first year. But by being consistent is he getting the best out of the players, team, squad? Personally I don't think so. I don't buy the 'we're not as shit as we used to be' argument so we should be happy, so are we achieving the most/best we can expect? I've never really been sold on JC but I think we're seeing his best efforts. But can we expect more, realistically should we do better, and can JC progress us even further? I'm not asking for JC to be sacked at present but at the end of the season I think the club/board need to clearly assess whether JC is giving them what AFC deserves having completed 5 seasons. While he has taken the club out of the shit times, are we 3rd, reaching Europe and a cup final most years? One 3rd place, one yr in Europe, and no cup finals so far - is that good enough for AFC? Do we keep JC because were not as shit as we used to be and were now pretty much a top 6 team, or do we look for someone to take us that step further? I think this to me will show the ambition of the board.

I've been drinking heavily so will no doubt regret this, plus I definitely want us to keep Miller. However, dare I suggest that if Miller wants to go, swap for Alan Gow and Chris Burke giving us Burke and Aluko on the wings with Gow and Tommy Wright up top??? Doubt it would happen as I think Gow wants to stay in England but you never know...

So here's my take on the current situation - Things seem pretty positive and we're in a good situation at present. Are any of the 6 expiring contracts being linked to anyone? In the past Anderson, Hart, Clark, Nicholson etc were all first team players who pretty much played week in week out and consistently played pretty well, hence they were scouted and taken. Of the 6 only Seve is really a first team regular, maybe Mackie. Of the six we can punt Jamie Smith because he's broken beyond repair and take the good money he's on to find a decent striker to partner Miller. JDV can stay or go, no big deal - he's played 3 good games on the bounce, but is that maybe 4/5 good games since he signed? Mackie will sign again as he's a don for life and is a decent squad player. Lee Mair can stay/go, no big loss and can be replaced. Derek Young can go, which leaves Seve. Of the six he's the only one I don't want to leave but is anyone interested? He's played at the back and in midfield and has maybe not been consistently staring to get the attention of clubs down south. I'd love to see us speculate on a player or two now as we are in a more appealing situation. Maybe the club can take advantage of this as we are playing well with the window opening - Cowie, McCarthy, McArthur, maybe the Partick boy if he's decent may be realistic...... we've lost out on a few players in the past that I trully think we could have got with a little ambition (like Barry Robson for example) so hopefully Jan will bring a some fresh bodies to the club.

I have a really tough time with Jamie Smith, along with Seve and Lee Miller. I believe they are the 3 top earners at the club yet Smith is almost always injured, Seve is often injured and inconsistent, and Miller is very inconsistent. You'd think most of our money would be spent on key players who produce week in week out yet these three are not. Don't know if Smith is worth the money to be honest??

Lucky was on our side but we got a deserved draw in Dnipro and a tremendous spanking of Copenhagen so we did what we needed to do. If only we played like the Copenhagen night regularly we'd win the league!

Never mind the oil companies, why won't anyone invest in Aberdeen? When was the last time someone other than Milne/the current directors put money into the club?

In terms of our start, the frustrating part has been the losses to the crap teams and good performances against the old firm. Do we lack motivation? Preparation? Aren't both these areas to the management team? My point about offering better wages is that we should have the slightly better players. Looking at our squad many feel we should or do have the 3rd best squad in the league but performances and results don't show that. However, for arguments sake, if we are all equal then it all comes down to coaching and the coach getting the best out of the players he has - I don't think JC gets the best out of our players. I feel the sign of a good coach is getting consistent performances from the players - we don't get that. I certainly hope we come good. If we do great, but the frustration of many has been there for a long time. Even the excitement of Europe and cup finals didn't hide the fact that we probably played half a dozen decent games last year. The debate of good performances and entertainment versus results is always a sticky one - many of us just want entertained, and if we play better quality, entertain, I think we trully feel results will come from that. We don't have to play dour long ball crap to get results.

I agree we 'could' have a strong first eleven but we don't. Seve is not a defender (and is injury prone), Smith is always injured, Miller is extremely inconsistent - we pay much of our squad money to three limited productivity players, not three week in week out stars. Foster is not a starting RB and Mackie has proven for years that while he works hard he's a squad player and not a starting forward/goalscorer. We've had almost 18 months to fix the loss of Andreson but haven't done that. I don't think he knows what our best formation and team is..... and may never know. I don't agree he has taken us forward every year. That suggests we are building on the previous year - we seem to start from scratch every year and hope it works out.

Managers who know what we are doing....... Prior to Aitken all post Fergie managers were semi-successful in league position and cup finals. Porterfield was dodgy but brought Charlie Nich, Peter Nich etc. and we were entertaining. Aitken - limited/no managerial experience so shouldn't have gotten the Dons job IMHO Alex Miller was awful but was a big part of Liverpool. Funny old game. Hegarty - limited/no managerial experience so shouldn't have gotten the Dons job IMHO Ebbe was successful with Brondby but failed with us??? Paterson admitted himself he shouldn't have taken the dons job. I've said this before and got slated. We should be the best of a bad lot as the quality of the SPL is not that strong and with our funds/resources we should be competing for 3rd every year, should be in cup finals, and qualify for Europe. I don't see any non old firm team with better players and haven't really for the entire JC era (maybe Hearts at the beginning of Romanov.) Yes, there have been highs and lows over the last 4 years, but we're still not good enough compared to very average opposition.

I don't understand the 'I'm sure he'll turn it around?' comments? Under what logic/thoughts? For 4 years JC has baffled us with tactics, selections etc., and good performances are few and remote. If he stays I'd happily see him do well, the team play well, entertain, success etc. and openly say I was wrong. However, I don't know what he has done to give people this optimism. Our top 6 stabilization has coincided with the financial spendings/levelling off of all SPL team (except the old firm.) I think we'd have seen this from any manager to be honest given we now have better resources than most SPL clubs.

I think that many posts on here regarding sacking JC have plenty of valid and appropriate points which I could list yet again if so desired. I don't see polarized opinions or tabloid debates but healthy and valid points/discussion which get slated for being anti-JC. I see/read 4 arguments to keeping JC - It's only x games into the season - he's not being judged on this season but is being judged on his entire management and his product on the park. While many relate to our success last year the bottom line is we didn't reach another cup final yet again and didn't qualify for Europe. That should be our season goals every year in my opinion. The Euro run was excellent and I loved it but our last 3 'biggest' games have all been in the domestic cups and we've lost all by conceding 4 goals. Something is wrong. We're just sacking another manager - he's one of the longest serving managers in the league. This is not a knee jerk rash decision. Most people gave JC a chance as I did but he's had long enough and we're still not good enough. The anti JC fans are living in the "Fergie' past - we're not, we just expect more. A cup final and entertainment on the park. Just because we're not as shit as we used to be doesn't make JC a success. Sacking JC will be a step backwards to the shitty days - in my opinion that won't happen. Our darkest days were when we overspent then cut costs and others kept spending. Now we are one of the 'bigger' spenders and pay better wages yet we are not one of the better teams. I honestly don't see a good reason to keeping JC any more. We are 3 months into the season as far as I am concerned (players returned early July) and we're struggling. I just think a freshface, new tactics and ideas etc. is what we need at present.

Why were Hodgkiss and Bossu playing? This was such an important game for us, even this early in the season, so why play them? It's not like we were playing Berwick Rangers at home and could blood youngsters/fringe players, Killie away was one of the toughest draws we could have got. Surely we should have played our strongest 11 (if we actually have one??) Premiership teams play fringe players/youngsters due to schedule congestion/fatigue/experience due to cups/Europe/internationals etc., what were we thinking? Are we the Scottish Chelsea with such squad depth that we can afford to do this? How much at fault were Bossu and Hodgkiss for the goals? (although not defending the other clowns as it sounds like we were all awful.)

I think we struggle to find investment because Scottish football is sadly a second rate league at present. The Premiership is the best league in the world, Spain, Italy, Germany..... where exactly do we come in? The EPL clubs make so much TV money, the glamourous games etc., attracts the best players in the world, as do the big European leagues. I don't think you'll find someone willing to pay Milne at least 15 million to buy the club and get it debt free, then have to build a stadium. That's a huge initial investment and how does the club rake back those millions. I don't know how much profit the Old Firm make (Rangers are debt ridden, I think Celtic make 3-4 million profit a year and that is with a 60,000 stadium.) I just don't see how a major investor sees Aberdeen as a good financial decision at present. Very sad, but maybe true???

Manager - his time is up. His 'stabilizing' the team coincided with other clubs cutting back on the cash and not paying for players in my opinion. His 'success' is consistent with the decline of other teams. All clubs bar the old firm are on an even playing field now and JC/Aberdeen are simply not good enough. Poor team, poor product on the park, many poor signings. I gave him 3 years to implement his style/methodology/build a team, and we are very poor under his current leadership. Time for new blood. Players - managers signings, many not good enough. I say that in relation to players on other teams with same/similar budget. There are better players/better performances by many other players/teams. Director of Football - hard to say, I honestly don't know what WM does?? Stewart Milne - got the club into this financial mess, what is he doing to get us out of it? While he has stablized the losses, we are not improving financially. Fans - I don't think we have unrealistic expectations like many say. I feel top 3/4 in the league, aiming for a cup final, spot in Europe etc. is very realistic.

Communication/leadership is also a personality issue. There are people/players who are natural leaders and some who are natural followers - Willie Miller, McLeish were natural leaders for example. Leadership is an attribute/quality we lack in our squad and surely it is a coach/managers job to sign some leaders. You sign skill players, physical players, positional players, and vocal/leaders for example. To me it's a management/signing issue - players can talk but not all can talk/lead on the park and this has been an issue with the dons for years. Every team requires leaders who encourage/enforce communication on the pitch and we've lacked this for a long time.

Or 3/4 of Brian O'Neil

Interested that many of you pick Strachan. He was my childhood hero and even though he is manager of Celtic to me he'll always be welcome back to Pittodrie in any capacity. However, I don't see why he is in our top 3. As much as he was an influential midfielder, I don't see him being any more influential than any of the midfielders or forwards of the 80s trophy winning era. He did well, great skill, and scored many a good goal, but so did Mark McGhee, Peter Weir, Neil Simpson, Dougie Bell, Eric Black etc. He drifted in and out of games, was on form, off form - I voted WM as he was to an extent the rock which our team was built on. Just my opinion.... which is wrong as usual no doubt. On another note, after much thought I'd put Theo in our top three. Like most I was crushed when Leighton left but Theo was outstanding (and you could even argue he was better than Leighton.) After McCoist crushed his face he was a different player though.

I agree with Seve as he was possibly the first player (internationalist too) in the current era to leave a decent team to come to us. I think his signing paved the way to help attract other players like a Miller, Nicholson, Smith, Kerr, Mulgrew etc. Anderson is an interesting one as for those who remember many of us thought he was piss (and he was) in the early years and could easily have been punted. Time, maturity, and experience and he became a great player. That's why I tend to be patient with Foster, Diamond, Considine, and Macguire. You could argue Dodds and Stavrum, our last real goalscorers?

Alex Ferguson, Willie Miller, and maybe McLeish?

Big physical players can cause problems and the fact that he also has the work ethic (going by what I've heard) he may just do a job. As for being a finisher, time will tell. Mackie isn't a finisher and when you pay money for a srtiker you have to assume he'll play.

Regarding formation, while many of you come up with creative suggestions, and I agree a 4-5-1 may suit our players with more freedom/creativity allowed to Aluka and Jamie, it won't happen. JC is a 442 or 352 man and that's what he'll do. 451 may just be too radical or forward thinking!!

Given JC paid 75-100k I would assume Wright will start when fit. The SPL shows that being a big strapping forwards tend to be successful - JVOH, Boyd, Hartson, Killen at Hibs did well etc. and Wright seems to be a big, hard working pain in the arse that will pressure defenses. I think he's got pace and also shows that he'll be quite an intimidating player to play against. We've been quite lightweight up top for a long time that I think he'll do a good job for us. Mackie has had years (too many??) to solidify a starting spot and while he has pace and works hard he lacks the skill, finishing ability, and consistency to be the regular starter in my opinion.

So, now that the window is closed, what do people think is our best starting line up? Langfield Foster - Diamond - Seve - Mulgrew Smith - Kerr - McDonald - Aluko Wright - Miller As much as I/we haven't seen him much I still think Wright will do a good job for us.

Ha ha, critical yes, but definitely not a miserable c*nt. I could complain about JC, not getting the 10 new signings again, not getting the 3 signings we were told just a few days ago, but I'm not. The start to the season is promising, the signings made look good, and the shakey defense looks like it has improved. I feel our problem of the last few years has been a small squad and we have that again. We sell/release more players than we add. It has happened year after year. Less than 20 players with experience this year. We'll naturally get to the injuries and have to rely on young players or squad players to become key players when that is not their function. A signing like Kerr is free, can't be that expensive, and would be worth the investment in my opinion.