tom_widdows

Going by the interviewers stationed in Wales a fair chunk are people who 'don't like Jeremy Corbyn' It is an interesting logic to take. I don't like the laid back old bloke so ill vote for the party who is openly destroying every socialist ideal the UK ever had. Just reminds me of the Welshies they interviewed after the EU Referendum who's attitude was essentially 'The EU has paid for our new roads, schools, leisure centres etc but enough is enough. It's time we put out faith in the Conservatives'

Given how to my knowledge not a single Council's Planning Team is coping under the new online systems I wouldn't base the lack of updates on their website as evidence of anything. In the last 4 weeks I have contacted at least 3 different council's about various planning/ warrant applications only to be told by the allocated Planning or Building Control Officer that they weren't even aware they had been allocated the project. In one case the determination deadline had already passed. Have also now discovered that every online application goes through a central server in Edinburgh which has no safety net for computer glitches or human error so in some cases updated drawings/ documents are never received by the council despite confirmation emails being sent. Either way it was actually quite nice having a break form this thread until Manc tripped over it again with his size 6s Why don't we just all wait to see what happens in June...or alternatively speculate as to what the newly elected Aberdeen Council Planning team cancels/ reinstates in the traditional 5 year tit for tat battle with their predecessors? I note the 'final' design for the Union terrace Gardens was released earlier this week........

Are you one of those folk who thinks Glasgow is split into a Rangers half and a Celtic half (with a Small contested 'Kashmir' zone full of Thistle Fans)? God help anyone seen wearing Green & White in Kinning Park or Blue in Ballieston etc Personally I think the Dons should demand the East End of Hampden because Pittodrie is further East than Celtic park.

Gronigen and PSV initially said they couldnt put in safe standing as their stadiums/ stands couldnt spread the weight evenly? That is a rather worrying statement and I would be questioning the design of their stadiums if there wasn't an allowance for being certain areas being over capacity in emergency situations

You mean the 'planning' drawings which show a general stadium layout? Lets wait for the Warrant/ Construction drawings

This statement intrigues me and I would like to know which clubs have put this as reason. As for adding safe standing to the stadium plans or even post completion the higher the overall capacity the less hassle it is to install. Looking at St Mirren park it seems to me the stands have been designed to the minimum requirement and with the low capacities this means any increase in spectator numbers throws up the red light. If they had put in an additional vomitory to each stand then they would have some wiggle room but at the time standing wasn't allowed and hence it wasn't a priority. I believe the stadium was paid for by Tesco or Asda so I wonder how much power the club had in terms of costs. Also I pointed out earlier in this thread the parking standards for stadiums is 1 space per 15 seats so the minimum for a 20000 seat stadium is 1334. Kingsford masterplan has 1600spaces which is actually enough for 24000 seats. Perhaps this is forward planning by the designers?

Using an existing Terrace is one thing. Installing a new Terrace is another one. The Terraces at Palmerston are from pre Hillsborough and as such will be heavily regulated/ licensed in terms of capacity. In fact it is currently limited to 5313 (split over 2 stands one of which was only re-opened in 2014). Qots record attendance is more than 25000 and yet they have only redeveloped 2 stands since then both of which are very small. If teams are looking for permanent new terraces (Not the safe standing convertible seats) these are some examples what the regulations currently permit Bucks Head Stadium, Telford Forthbank, Stirling Note the design of the 'crush' barriers, and the height & number of steps between them Compare that to Palmerstons Kop (Largest terrace in scotland) Or Wrexham's Kop (Largest Terrace in the UK)

Pittodrie in its current state is done. All 4 stands actually have restricted view seats (thank to UEFAs pitch requirements) and installing a pitch which will reinstate the original RDS site lines and future proof against UEFA changing their minds again reduces the space available for new stands. Even demolishing the whole thing and rotating the pitch is unlikely to maintain the 20000 seats all thanks to those flats behind section Y. I believe that if the club had announced they were going to redevelop the stadium and reduce the capacity to 12-13000 there would have been an outcry from the fans and calls for a new stadium to be built. A Case of damned if they do damned if they don't. For the club to approach investors/ banks to loan the money to rebuild pittodrie with a business plan that showed they were reducing both their major income streams would put them on the back-foot straight away. Kingsford on paper does not appear to be an ideal location but the venom it has drawn from some people is concerning. I recall opposition to Loriston but not on the same level and for me the underlying factor was 'I don't care what anyone says, Pittodrie is fine and I don't want the club to move no matter what happens' Loriston was my preferred choice but then the 'little aberdeen council' mentality kicked in and screwed it up. Doesn't matter that the local plan keeps mentioning it, the council showed their colours when they revoked the training facilities/ new cove stadium portion. If the club moves I will adapt my travel plans on the rare occasions I make it to home games be it at Cove, West Hill, Bridge of Don Dyce or wherever. Maybe knowing I will have a clear view of the entire pitch whilst retaining my knee caps, staying reasonably dry and not developing hypothermia will make the prospect of shelling out the usual £60 it costs me to attend home games more appealing. I always felt the club had a hardcore support who will support them no matter what but if moving stadium is all it takes for people to turn their backs then we have much bigger problems than shuttle buses and car parking

Category 3 you say? Interesting. That means Pittodrie cannot be used for Europa League Group Matches or Champions league playoffs/ group games (Category 4 stadiums only)

That’s an interesting suggestion. Let’s have a closer look ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Clubs that have redeveloped at least 50% of their stadiums since the original Premier League was formed. Hearts, Hibernian, Celtic, Kilmarnock, Ross County, Dundee United, Dunfermline, Raith Rovers, Dundee, Motherwell, Partick Thistle, Sevco. Hearts Proposed Relocations prior to 1990s redevelopment – 2 Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules - 3 Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003 Proposed relocations following technical insolvency - 1 Told Romanov to GTF - No Entered Administration & threatened with liquidation – May 2013 Relegations from premier – 2013 Hibernian Proposed Relocations prior to redevelopment – 2 Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s & Early 2000s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3 Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003. Forced to sell their best players and land around their stadium to stay afloat Proposed relocations following technical insolvency - 1 Relegations from premier – 1997 & 2013 Celtic Proposed Relocations prior to redevelopment – 1 Number of times threatened with Liquidation – 1 (1994) Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report– 3 Restricted views in redeveloped stands due to rushing them – Lots Dundee Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 2 Proposed Relocations following redevelopment - 2 Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003. Told Romanov to GTF - Yes Administration – 2004 & 2010 Relegations from premier – 2005 & 2013 Number of times stadium sold stay afloat - 1 Dunfermline Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3 Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003. Told Romanov to GTF - Yes Relegations from premier – 2007, 2012 Administration and winding up order – 2012 Relegated to third tier – Yes Stands closed - 1 Raith Rovers Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3 Relegations from premier – 1997 Stands permanently closed - 1 Relegated to third tier – Yes Threatened with losing their stadium – Yes (2005) Dundee United Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3.5 Relegations from premier – 1995 & 2016 Stands closed on certain league games - 2 Rumours of Administration – Yes both before Thompson invested the family silver and now given their current predicament Told Romanov to GTF - Yes Motherwell Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3 Administration – 2002 Stands closed on certain league games - 1 Kilmarnock Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3 Stands closed – 1 On brink of Administration – Allegedly the only thing keeping the club afloat is the Hotel. Partick Thistle Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s & 2000s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 2 Number of times threatened with Liquidation – 1 (1998) Stands removed – 1 (Although Glasgow city council have now finally agreed to them building a 255-Seater stand at the open end) Relegations from Premier – 1999, 2004, Relegated to third tier – Yes Sevco Mostly done in the 1970s with a little bit done in the late 90s. The 1970s development is one of the few noble things they have ever done and is one of the reasons they were nothing until Murray came along. Administration – 2012 Liquidation – 2015 Ross County Small well run club and not screwed by the 10000 seat rule. Good luck to them ------------------------------------------- Redeveloping your own stadiums in a properly financed way is clearly a piece of cake

And do what exactly?

What is your proposal to resolve the stadium issue?

Suspect they are only appealing it as the appeals board doesnt meet till the end of the month. Lodging the appeal now means brown can face sevco twice.

personally I think AK is actually more than one person. The tone and general language of the posts arent consistent.

Third Place and European Football Assured..... but at the expense of Manc & Rocket 85 83 82 81 - MBT 80 79 78 77 - Tyrant 76 75 74 - Nellie The Don 73 - BigAl 72 - Edinburghdon 71 - Oxford Don (2nd Place Assured) 70 69 68 - Thomsod 67 - Jute 66 - Manc 65 - rocket 64 63 - Tom_Widdows 62 61

St Mirren continuing their 'Great Escape' at Morton tonight. Probably means there will be a Championship party in Leith on Saturday Night

Before Swiss Tony jumps decides to way in Don Rickles - 90 AKA

MBT bows out for another year 85 83 82 81 - MBT 80 79 78 77 - Tyrant 76 75 74 - Nellie The Don (2nd Place Assured) 73 - BigAl 72 - Edinburghdon 71 - Oxford Don 70 69 68 - Thomsod (European Football Assured) 67 - Jute 66 - Manc 65 - rocket 64 63 - Tom_Widdows 62 61

It may suggest that but as I said it all depends on the attitude of the Council. Given the antics that went down after the last Aberdeen Council election nothing is guaranteed.

Original Planning Permission expired on January 2016 and to date no application to have it renewed has been submitted. The proposed new houses/ flats are to be directly opposite the Loch although the Developer/ Applicant does also own the strip of Land directly opposite what would have been one of the stadium access points. Either way they are well clear of the where the stadium was meant to go and have a dual carriageway as a dividing line. In terms of renewing Planning Permission it can be done but it can be a slog depending on the Council's Attitude I recently worked on renewing an expired application for Twenty 1-Bedroom Flats and the Local Planning Team seemed hell bent on refusing it even though there is supposedly a shortage of such properties in the area. We jumped through lots of hoops, updated the design, and resolved every issue they raised but it wasn't until the Head of the Council got involved that the permission was renewed. Renewing permission for a large sports stadium though....

Not known for being the most positive, and reading the early posts on this threads which talked about cricket score wins I had a gut feeling the run would end today. I didn't expect to go into Sainsburys at 0-0 and come out 10mins later to find 3-0 but nothing really surprises me following the Dons. Who else remembers the Skovdahl teams 8 straight home wins run ending spectacularly in a 6-1 defeat to Livi? Personally I am not worried about Hearts, St Johnstone on the other hand.... Anyway to put things in perspective. Dons need 4 points from last 6 games to secure 3rd. However a win at McDiarmed Park next Saturday and 3rd is Secured. Dons need 10 points from last 6 games to secure second. Everytime Sevco drop points that target drops and they still have to face the Tic and an inform Partick twice Dons goal difference is +34 whereas Sevcos is +12 and a 22 goal swing in the last 6 games is unlikely so optimists could say only 9 points are needed. Onwards and upwards

Done a rough layout for that one too. End up with a Braga Style Stadium. No idea of the capacity, or the logistics of being able to extend the RDS though. May I take the opportunity to remind and engage Kingsford man with the news that the Easter Road Redevelopment has already been covered in this thread. As for the flats behind the newest stand? Planning Permission for the New Hibs East Stand was granted in February 2005. The Planning Application for those new flats wasn't submitted until 2010 and the developers kept adjusting it to the extent the application is still not fully determined. The Developers knew the new stand was coming and had to design accordingly. With regards to there being nothing in front (or behind depending on your view) of the RDS can I ask why you appear to be ignoring the massive concourse which was required as part of the 1992/93 redevelopment so the 6200 fans inside plus a potential over-spill from the South Stand can be safely contained without blocking Golf Road or Pittodrie Street?

At the risk of really chucking the grenade in I have actually worked out a very basic layout for a redeveloped Pittodrie using a Site Plan downloaded from an old application. OS Maps are good but can be slightly off but this is the breakdown I have worked out based on the steepest stand gradient (34degrees), minimum aisle widths, The new stands being the the same distance from the Boundary lines, and before the really complicated aspect of removing seats to allow for vomitories, corporate facilities. I also have not worked out a section for a redeveloped south stand which would need to house modern changing rooms, media facilites, medical rooms, staff facilities, offices, boardrooms, vehicle access (club & emergency) as well as the fan facilities (toilets, snack bars etc). The amount of digging out/ retention around the south stand carpark to get the new club facilites/ emergency vehicle access to a redeveloped south stand could be a bit scary. Anyway the breakdown so far is as follows New Main Stand - 1798 (Average 198 seats per row) New Merkland Stand - 2193 (Average 129 seats per row) New (simplistic) South Stand - 2840 (Average 198 seats per row) Existing RDS - 6200 TOTAL - 13,031 I did not appreciate the problem retaining the RDS causes when installing a pitch which will ensure long term compliance with UEFA and should the opportunity actually arise mean the club did not have any issues with playing champions league football. The existing pitch is 110yards (100.5m) x 72yards (66m) and is very close to the south & Main stand perimeter tracks (about 1m of grass before you hit the sand). UEFAs max pitch size is 120yards (110m) x 80yards (73m) so it would be stupid not to install this size. For player safety the pitch should extend more than 1m beyond the touchlines (I have allowed for 5m) and then there is the perimeter track (I have allowed for 5m again). In doing this the pitch area (grass+tracks) increases from approx 79m x 121m to 95m x 130m. Centering the pitch on the RDS reduces the main, south & Merkland stand depths by 8m each. Because of the proximity of Merkland Lane & Pittodrie Street Section Y of the South stand and the corner infill between the main and merkland would need to go to allow for concourses. I am going to see what size of pitch and track has been allowed for at Kingsford and put that on the CAD to see if it makes a difference but I am skeptical.

What about 50% of the South Stand and the entire Merkland Stand? You mean the Emergency Concourse required to hold minimum 6220 fans plus Emergency Vehicles and installed as part of the Stand's Construction in 1994? I deduce from this that you have not read or are choosing to ignore any of my comments about how the redeveloped Tynecastle works or how it was possible. Pittodrie Main Stand Backing directly onto a public roads..... Tynecastle Main Stand as opposed to backing onto a carpark, Club Shop & Admin Office, Supporters Club, and a Council Run Nursery the latter of which is being relocated as part of the New Stand works. Loads of Room you say? What are you talking about? Who keeps saying Kingsford is Based on Ashton Gate? As with the RDS that section of the Ground is not an Issue. The Issues are the Sections which back onto Merkland Lane & Pittodrie Street. Two Roads which enclose more than 50% of the Stadium. The graveyard is totally irrelevant. The New Flats between the South Stand and Graveyard are not. No one has said Pittodrie cannot be redeveloped. The have said it cannot be redeveloped to a 20000 capacity. A Large chunk of this thread has been about this but as with your Tynecastle comments I deduce you either havent read them or are chosing to ignore them. Speaking of Evidence though. How about those Alternative Sites the Council have offered the Club?