Ajja

I think it's almost a certainty that they will be praying that the 'interim' team they have cobbled together will start getting results and they won't have to go out and find another victim to be churned in the Pittodrie mill. My money would go on that outcome.

Surely what is being said is beneficial to the fans in that we are getting some signals that (a) things were not right with the squad and (b) Hartley is trying to turn it around. I personally feel better for them saying it and don't really care who said it. I find it hard to believe that when a player comes out and tells us that the captain has tried to rally the troops that you can find reason to complain about it. If nothing was being said, there would be moaning about that.

Can I just introduce some reality here ? We don't have any money to tempt a manager away from a club where he is under contract, even Inverness. We are a bigger risk than Inverness in terms of progressing your career options. Forget Butcher, whether he hates us or not.

My thoughts exactly. I'd far rather a large hole opened up in the ground and Scottish football was fucked into it and I could get busy worrying about real shit.

Has this been mentioned anywhere on here, apologies but I haven't trawled the board to check. They are doing an Aberdeen special on Sportsound this Wednesday night. Some guests inc Scott Booth, Jim Cummings and I think they are going to chat with Willie Miller.

...and then to have him put his name to an article that basically seeks to understand (albeit in a 5 year old child type way) the nature of hate and its destructive effects. Oh the fucking irony of it.

Does he really need to speculate why we hate them so much. All he has to do is get someone to read him that article back, assuming he has any friends....who can read...in his booze soaked, bile ridden, hate infested, narrow minded, insignificant little world.

I'd say the Board made the call as they are in the box seat on this. I would also suggest that the Board have cut a deal with McGhee. In 'making changes to the way they operate' they might have said to McGhee that he can have another month or two, maybe up to Christmas, to see if he can turn it around. The terms under which he gets more time could be that his rolling 12 month contract gets torn up and he now accepts different terms. Possibly now a rolling 1 month contract or simply if we are not top 6 he walks for free. Forget any romantic notions that the Board are taking a long view and believing in McGhee ability to change things for the better. Milne is a businessman and a ruthless one at that. Ultimately this decision is about money for the Board and they will be trying to secure a position where they can push him out the door for free if it doesn't turn around soon.

While I can understand the obsession about full backs, we clearly need a few, is it really the root of our problem this season ? Two points on this. McGhee has made what I assume is a conscious decision to build a back line made up of big defenders with the intention of using width in midfield to block opposing attacking players further up the field. I'm not saying that was a good decision but it was a conscious one rather than some sort of oversight or incompetent bafoonery. Also, has the lack of full backs been the reason for such poor results ? I ask this with genuine need for an answer as I have only been to a couple of games this season and we won them both. From listening to games it sounds to me like the centre of defence has been abysmal and has failed to pick up players at numerous set pieces as well as some suicidal defending at times. In terms of goal keeping confidence this has eroded massively as a result. Have I got that wrong ? I'll say again, McGhees results are very difficult to defend despite Stoney's attempts. However, is it all about full backs, or is there other things we might talk about ?

Al, the only thing that has changed is that a decision has been made. That in itself is what has created a minor ground swell of opinion that fans now just have to get behind the team and try to encourage results on the pitch to change. For those who hold that position I can see no problem, it's their choice to make, it really just comes down to how you view things. I'm not sure it means they are saying the past is acceptable, only in the past. McGhee's form still remains diabolical and the prospect of improvement remains slim but for some they need to hope for better, for others they will stay in that angry place until the easy decision is taken, to remove McGhee. For those people who are holding that position on here, what are your views on what should be done beyond McGhee's removal ? It's easy to type angrily about what a terrible performance it has been and how bad our current predicament is but is there any constructive debate about the options to go forward ? It used to be the strength of Donstalk, constructive discussion, yet so few seem to engage now.

I don't think its that black and white Jute to be fair, certainly not what I am suggesting by any stretch of the imagination. If we could find the money to invest with a sensible approach, the skills at Board level to source a quality manager on a budget and then a change of thinking at the club through root and branch then I would be right behind the idea that we should press the reset button. I doubt there is an Aberdeen supporter alive who would defend McGhee's form since arriving. I also doubt that there are many who see the last 18 months as acceptable. The problem, as is being debated in several threads on here so I'm sure you have read something of them, is that the road we travel from here is not easily fixed by punting one manager for another. That may turn out to be the right one in the long term but there is so much more to consider than one decision to sack or not to sack.

Thats a good idea mate. I have been thinking for a while I'd like to get some points across to them but always just assumed they would dismiss it (part of the problem I guess). Might put pen to paper so to speak myself, they may be more receptive at the moment.

Incredibly. I can only imagine that whatever malaise is eating through the club has provided a counter balance to his and Hartleys efforts that seemed to be making a difference in the first few weeks of the season. Certainly, as far as negative influences go something pretty fucking savage was going on last Saturday.

In all seriousness, in terms of structures and personnel I'm not sure how much change can be made. There is no money and Scottish football is in crisis so there will be no more for the medium to long term. This puts the stops on most of the chnages we would all like to see, ie better quality players. That said I actually think the youth programme, a new approach to contract lengths and plans to set up an academy are great steps forward for the medium term. I've never been convinced that Milne is the disaster that most fans seem to think he is. I can't imagine running a football club in Scottish football terms is anything other than almost impossible with the financial difficulties in balancing budgets, the huge egos of footballers and their agents and the emotional input from fans. I suspect Milne might be more pragmatic and sensible than people think but it doesn't sit well with the hopes and dreams of fans. If we are to accept that the current personnel are there for the foreseeable then I think a complete cultural change at the club is what is really required. From top to bottom we need a more collaborative approach. Board supporting management team, management team supporting players, club supporting fans and fans supporting club. There needs to be a public display of this regularly, the club needs to feel like a place that's full of energy and enthusiasm for the fight. Players need to be hungry to fight for each other as well as the club. The senior managers at the club need to be more vocal with their praise and support, to be talking up the club instead of making excuses. The club itself needs to engage the fanbase and start to see us as a positive lever in lifting the team rather than a nuisance. We need to see positive messages coming out of every aspect of the club, constructive discussion and ideas, innovative matchday activity. The malaise and divisive cynicism that is eroding the club at present needs to be weeded out. I actually think what Paul Hartley has been trying to do has been along these lines but he can't do it in isolation. His actions alone felt pretty positive to me at the start of the season. I guess that seems like a load of woolly crap but given the resources that exist to make changes I tihnk it the cheapest and simplest thing they could do. A simple change in attitude and approach...that is all. If I think of anything better I will be sure to say.

For every Ifil there is a Hartley, Vernon and Folly - 3 excellent signings I'd suggest. On balance his dealings have been more good than bad.

Outward communications to media ? Improving presentation style of management ? Killing drinking culture ? Increased or different training regimes ? Encouraging socialising as a group/building positive relations within squad ? Senior management involvement intensified or decreased? Restructuring wages to transfer fee relationship ? More youth experimentation in first team ? Marketing initiatives ? Change to pricing policy to increase attendances ? More public support from within club for fans ? Standing area/singing areas ? Consultation with key fans groups ? New toaster ? Who knows......

Not sure of the magical nature of any plans but it would be nice if the 'changes to operations' meant that McGhee was going to be given a bit more space with budget.

There is also an argument to say that they took their time to make a thought out decision after a lot of discussions rather than leaping to satisfy the demand for blood from the fans. You don't make decisions that may have a huge impact on the commercial aspect of Aberdeen FC without looking at it very carefully.

Agreed on all fronts. A big part of the reason why I am choosing to take a more 'understanding' position on this is that I am pretty numb to anything and everything linked with Aberdeen and Scottish football at the moment. I have surprised myself with how little I was affected by the 9-0 at the weekend. I patiently await inspiration with little sense of belief it will arrive too soon, certainly can't see it coming at Ibrox this weekend.

While I'm at it I really hope we don't take a punt on Steve Clark. I watched an interview with him somewhere recently and he sounded like a hugely dull character. Sounded desperate to get his own club and I don't like that, have some self respect. It might be an unfair judgement but I'm sure he has been no.2 for so long for good reasons.

Horrible thought. If our players don't like McGhee's bullish approach how will they take to Collins chest beating ?

Aberdeen Mad in wider angle lens shocker ? What is the afc 'knee-jerk' chat poll at ?

Very limited evidence available I agree. That said, I would happily see Considine and Vuja in the backline at the moment and I'm sure Howard or Langfield would too. The complete collapse of our central defence is actually more frightening than our lack of decent full backs as far as I can see. From what I saw of Fyvie in Perth he changed the game when he came on and he was in control of everything at Alloa before he went off. It's not so much about whether the players ot come in are better, it's more about having a stable first 11. We are constantly having to piss around with our starting team and it destroys any chance of confidence building or finding a groove. Not suggesting its the silver bullet but it's a contributing factor. In terms of managerial appointments, there is a world of difference between thinking that a manager is the right choice at the time and them turning out to be the right choice. Most of our managers have been fairly obvious choices, guys doing or having done decent jobs at other Scottish clubs, promotions from No. 2 etc with the exception of Ebbe. Very little evidence of a Board applying a high degree of research, hard work and insight into appointments. I agree, they probably all seemed sensible enough but not particularly inspiring. McGhee was appointed in exactly the same style, laziness and fan pressure rather than genuine enterprising Board activity. Fully expect we will do the same again. Eric Black is likely having lunch with Miller as we type.......it's hardly inspiring stuff is it ?

Sure I heard Richard Gordon say last night that we needed 11,000 coming through the doors on average to break even in normal conditions. Obviously, we are way off that now so would need to be seeing an uplift to around 12,000-13,000 to balance out early games and deliver 11,000 average over season to not lose money. That's not even factoring in the comp money that might go out. Not going to be a particularly profitable season, despite lifting the CIS cup

We are dealing with a different team now though. If the majority of them were fit I would have much more belief than the squad we had last season. Trouble is, they aren't fit. In terms of attendance, I fear Jager is correct. A new manager is not likely to improve figures in the short term, as I said before I believe there are economic challenges that go way beyond Aberdeen FC's ability to attract greater foot traffic.