Ajja

Because it's easy. Most journalists are looking for the least work. Stark is the least work. Let's hope our Board aren't looking for the same easy route.

The thing is Maverick, footballers all over the world have pretty much got similar views. If they are good enough to play in the higher leagues, even in Scotland, they earn a fair amount of cash. They consider themselves minor stars, they publicise themselves via social media and they float around bars and clubs seeking attention and generally acting like the uneducated, immature, self-absorbed pricks they generally are (with a few exceptions). If we ship out a batch of these guys, we are very likely to bring in another set in the same type. The only way to combat such attitude is to manage it out. To make it clear its not acceptable at the club. In doing so the manager also has to be prepared to find a replacement for such bullshit, you can't simply squeeze it out. You have to find another way to provide support, fun, togetherness that doesn't operate unshackled as it appears to do so at our club. Find that ability and you have the answer. I have no idea who that man is.

I fear it might as well be Az. There is an increasing amount of opinion emerging that the nice guy appointment (like Stark might be?) is not what is needed at Aberdeen. While I agree that we need a deeper strength I also worry about the tough guy approach. McGhee was unable to bully the players into performing while JCs slightly cheeky weegie approach was more accepted by a number of players. The difficulty with JCs approach is that he fostered a spirit of togetherness behind all the wrong values. McGhee didn't even manage to foster any kind of spirit at all. We have to find someone who will bring immediate respect but also be able to create a bit of a sense of fun within the context of professionalism. That's a big ask of a manager who will also come cheap and want a challenge. I'm moving more towards a Craig Brown/Jim Jeffries type character who has been around a bit with someone like Hartley with him. Jocky Scott might be the most likely bet in that camp.

If you strip away the football then we are talking about a business who are selling a product to a customer base. The first rule of business is to know what your customer wants and give it to them. If Aberdeen FC know something that all other businesses have missed then good luck to them but I very much doubt they do. I wouldn't expect them to only consider the fans opinion, it would be too subjective and emotional. However, if they ignore it then it will be another significant step to disaster.

Fair point but the behaviour of players is a direct result of the culture at the club and the keepers of this culture are the very same senior management team. If you tolerate nonsense it will breed and grow. These moronic footballers who masquerade as 'professionals'......no, even adults, need to be managed to be professional. Somewhere in the bowels of AFC they are being told its OK to act like fucksticks. It's unacceptable.

Foster will strengthen us next season if he returns, no doubt. He is gaining fantastic experience and his confidence will have grown exponentially. We can't afford to dwell on such idiocy as 'he played for the huns'. Get him back and let's win from this move.

The more of these types of insights we see appearing in the press the more it just makes me feel depressed about how little our senior management team seem to know about the problems and more importantly, the solutions to lifting the club out of the shit. You just know that our financial restrictions and incompetence are highly likely to secure yet another failure. Sheeeesht, I'm baked with this already.

I think it's almost a certainty that they will be praying that the 'interim' team they have cobbled together will start getting results and they won't have to go out and find another victim to be churned in the Pittodrie mill. My money would go on that outcome.

Surely what is being said is beneficial to the fans in that we are getting some signals that (a) things were not right with the squad and (b) Hartley is trying to turn it around. I personally feel better for them saying it and don't really care who said it. I find it hard to believe that when a player comes out and tells us that the captain has tried to rally the troops that you can find reason to complain about it. If nothing was being said, there would be moaning about that.

Can I just introduce some reality here ? We don't have any money to tempt a manager away from a club where he is under contract, even Inverness. We are a bigger risk than Inverness in terms of progressing your career options. Forget Butcher, whether he hates us or not.

My thoughts exactly. I'd far rather a large hole opened up in the ground and Scottish football was fucked into it and I could get busy worrying about real shit.

Has this been mentioned anywhere on here, apologies but I haven't trawled the board to check. They are doing an Aberdeen special on Sportsound this Wednesday night. Some guests inc Scott Booth, Jim Cummings and I think they are going to chat with Willie Miller.

...and then to have him put his name to an article that basically seeks to understand (albeit in a 5 year old child type way) the nature of hate and its destructive effects. Oh the fucking irony of it.

Does he really need to speculate why we hate them so much. All he has to do is get someone to read him that article back, assuming he has any friends....who can read...in his booze soaked, bile ridden, hate infested, narrow minded, insignificant little world.

I'd say the Board made the call as they are in the box seat on this. I would also suggest that the Board have cut a deal with McGhee. In 'making changes to the way they operate' they might have said to McGhee that he can have another month or two, maybe up to Christmas, to see if he can turn it around. The terms under which he gets more time could be that his rolling 12 month contract gets torn up and he now accepts different terms. Possibly now a rolling 1 month contract or simply if we are not top 6 he walks for free. Forget any romantic notions that the Board are taking a long view and believing in McGhee ability to change things for the better. Milne is a businessman and a ruthless one at that. Ultimately this decision is about money for the Board and they will be trying to secure a position where they can push him out the door for free if it doesn't turn around soon.

While I can understand the obsession about full backs, we clearly need a few, is it really the root of our problem this season ? Two points on this. McGhee has made what I assume is a conscious decision to build a back line made up of big defenders with the intention of using width in midfield to block opposing attacking players further up the field. I'm not saying that was a good decision but it was a conscious one rather than some sort of oversight or incompetent bafoonery. Also, has the lack of full backs been the reason for such poor results ? I ask this with genuine need for an answer as I have only been to a couple of games this season and we won them both. From listening to games it sounds to me like the centre of defence has been abysmal and has failed to pick up players at numerous set pieces as well as some suicidal defending at times. In terms of goal keeping confidence this has eroded massively as a result. Have I got that wrong ? I'll say again, McGhees results are very difficult to defend despite Stoney's attempts. However, is it all about full backs, or is there other things we might talk about ?

Al, the only thing that has changed is that a decision has been made. That in itself is what has created a minor ground swell of opinion that fans now just have to get behind the team and try to encourage results on the pitch to change. For those who hold that position I can see no problem, it's their choice to make, it really just comes down to how you view things. I'm not sure it means they are saying the past is acceptable, only in the past. McGhee's form still remains diabolical and the prospect of improvement remains slim but for some they need to hope for better, for others they will stay in that angry place until the easy decision is taken, to remove McGhee. For those people who are holding that position on here, what are your views on what should be done beyond McGhee's removal ? It's easy to type angrily about what a terrible performance it has been and how bad our current predicament is but is there any constructive debate about the options to go forward ? It used to be the strength of Donstalk, constructive discussion, yet so few seem to engage now.

I don't think its that black and white Jute to be fair, certainly not what I am suggesting by any stretch of the imagination. If we could find the money to invest with a sensible approach, the skills at Board level to source a quality manager on a budget and then a change of thinking at the club through root and branch then I would be right behind the idea that we should press the reset button. I doubt there is an Aberdeen supporter alive who would defend McGhee's form since arriving. I also doubt that there are many who see the last 18 months as acceptable. The problem, as is being debated in several threads on here so I'm sure you have read something of them, is that the road we travel from here is not easily fixed by punting one manager for another. That may turn out to be the right one in the long term but there is so much more to consider than one decision to sack or not to sack.

Thats a good idea mate. I have been thinking for a while I'd like to get some points across to them but always just assumed they would dismiss it (part of the problem I guess). Might put pen to paper so to speak myself, they may be more receptive at the moment.

Incredibly. I can only imagine that whatever malaise is eating through the club has provided a counter balance to his and Hartleys efforts that seemed to be making a difference in the first few weeks of the season. Certainly, as far as negative influences go something pretty fucking savage was going on last Saturday.

In all seriousness, in terms of structures and personnel I'm not sure how much change can be made. There is no money and Scottish football is in crisis so there will be no more for the medium to long term. This puts the stops on most of the chnages we would all like to see, ie better quality players. That said I actually think the youth programme, a new approach to contract lengths and plans to set up an academy are great steps forward for the medium term. I've never been convinced that Milne is the disaster that most fans seem to think he is. I can't imagine running a football club in Scottish football terms is anything other than almost impossible with the financial difficulties in balancing budgets, the huge egos of footballers and their agents and the emotional input from fans. I suspect Milne might be more pragmatic and sensible than people think but it doesn't sit well with the hopes and dreams of fans. If we are to accept that the current personnel are there for the foreseeable then I think a complete cultural change at the club is what is really required. From top to bottom we need a more collaborative approach. Board supporting management team, management team supporting players, club supporting fans and fans supporting club. There needs to be a public display of this regularly, the club needs to feel like a place that's full of energy and enthusiasm for the fight. Players need to be hungry to fight for each other as well as the club. The senior managers at the club need to be more vocal with their praise and support, to be talking up the club instead of making excuses. The club itself needs to engage the fanbase and start to see us as a positive lever in lifting the team rather than a nuisance. We need to see positive messages coming out of every aspect of the club, constructive discussion and ideas, innovative matchday activity. The malaise and divisive cynicism that is eroding the club at present needs to be weeded out. I actually think what Paul Hartley has been trying to do has been along these lines but he can't do it in isolation. His actions alone felt pretty positive to me at the start of the season. I guess that seems like a load of woolly crap but given the resources that exist to make changes I tihnk it the cheapest and simplest thing they could do. A simple change in attitude and approach...that is all. If I think of anything better I will be sure to say.

For every Ifil there is a Hartley, Vernon and Folly - 3 excellent signings I'd suggest. On balance his dealings have been more good than bad.

Outward communications to media ? Improving presentation style of management ? Killing drinking culture ? Increased or different training regimes ? Encouraging socialising as a group/building positive relations within squad ? Senior management involvement intensified or decreased? Restructuring wages to transfer fee relationship ? More youth experimentation in first team ? Marketing initiatives ? Change to pricing policy to increase attendances ? More public support from within club for fans ? Standing area/singing areas ? Consultation with key fans groups ? New toaster ? Who knows......

Not sure of the magical nature of any plans but it would be nice if the 'changes to operations' meant that McGhee was going to be given a bit more space with budget.

There is also an argument to say that they took their time to make a thought out decision after a lot of discussions rather than leaping to satisfy the demand for blood from the fans. You don't make decisions that may have a huge impact on the commercial aspect of Aberdeen FC without looking at it very carefully.