Ajja

There will obviously be a fee involved, he's worth 10 if he's worth a shekel.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that the majority of fans are content. The discontent is apparent on every forum and in every crowd at games. We all see that change would probably be for the better but some of us are keen to look deeper than 'get him to fuck' and worry about the future when it comes.

1. I agree, players should be reacting positively and it pisses me off that they don't. However, they are just people like you and I and are subject to the pressures brought about by a support who boo and shout bile at them and organise protests while they sit 4th in the league. I'm not happy with their seeming inability to respond well but it doesn't mean I don't understand it and I personally choose to try and get passed my anger and support the players in the hope that a positive message lands a better strike than a negative one. 2. I am well aware that if people want to protest its their choice, hence the reason why I said it. That said, I don't have to agree with protesting. Maybe read my post before reacting.

As I said, you have the right to express your opinions in whichever way you wish but I personally don't agree its the right way to do it. You say you have nothing to lose, I would agree that for those attending the protest that may well be the case but I would question whether they do not have the clubs best interests at heart. The likely outcomes of this protest are to whip up a storm in national press generating ridicule of the clubs support, pile increased pressure on the players to avoid any further errors thereby increasing the possibility of more errors, increase divisions in the support bringing more tension and negativity to the club, continue to derail any chance of european football and therefor improved revenue for the club. If you really think there is nothing to lose then, in my opinion, you are taking a very myopic and ego-centric view on the events surrounding our club. I think there is a great deal to lose from this protest as outlined above and my previous post. You may be innocent to the way that such events operate but you must be aware that there is a high probability that any content likely to attend such an event is likely to be high on bile, venom and poison and low on reasoned thinking. The heady cocktail of football, booze and frustration is never going to paint a pretty picture or send any sort of message other than a reactionary one. Good luck with getting across your message anyway. I will watch with a minor amount of interest and a great deal of disdain.

He is a good footballer and so is his wife !

Westenddon: Has any of your group thought through the fact that a badly organised, badly pitched (if we win), half hearted attempt at a protest will have exactly the opposite effect to the one desired here ? I respect your right to do it but the odds are that this protest is unlikely to carry a significant amount of weight and substance, even if you get 100+ people out. If that happens then you will be reinforcing the club and management view that the dissenters in our support are a only a minority of ill-informed reactionaries. This will provide them with increased courage in their convictions and will allow them to continue to hide behind the idea that the 'real fans' who they meet 'on holiday' or in the streets are right behind the team. The club have very little history of reacting positively to such lightweight pressure groups and I suspect that you will find your protest will lead to further entrenchment of the management, exactly not what you are looking for I assume. In addition you will further alienate the support from the club through increased media attention as they will be incapable of dissecting the support into factions who support or do not support your rabble. If any of your group have been at the last two games they will have witnessed a team who are shell-shocked and downtrodden and this division between fans and club will intensify that feeling. Regardless of your views of the management if you are a fan of the club you would at least try to look at how this is affecting the players on the park. They require support more than ever and I would suggest that there are better ways to express discontent than this option, letters, petitions whatever form it takes a well thought out written word with a volume of support is significantly more poignant than any half-jacked screaming protester.

Moon on a stick option please

If one was going to present a case for 'moving backwards' (which I clearly haven't in my last response) they might point to the fact that a lot of the competition has got weaker (Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock) since JC took over and so staying still could be seen as backwards movement. Also, Kenetic Energy = Half mass x velocity squared, our squad is smaller (mass) and our velocity has diminished with Clark being sold and Mackie getting fat. Ergo, our Kenetic energy must have reduced and therefor a measurement of movement has gone backwards in real terms.

Hey now. Thats just plain rude. I'm fae fife...

You should see what he can do with dead balls

I tend to go for away games yeah. My decision making criteria is based on having a life outside football rather than the form of the team. I just get on with supporting them on the field regardless of my personal feelings about the way they are playing. Its simple really, and a lot less stressful that bursting a vein outside the main stand on a Saturday.

How funny if we horsed them 4-0. "You're not fit to wear the shirt...except the 4 goal scorers and the defence"

I'd go with that with one change, I might try this guy in place of Mulgrew to inject some pace and energy at FB:

This was the first game where fans would have been making a decision about paying in to a game since the dark night we shall speak of no more. Hibs game tickets were committed in advance.

I was the guy who pointed Brown out to you in the station. Regards to the game, ally s is pretty much spot on with his assessment. We were more than capable of containing them for the middle section of the game and only felt wobbly in the opening 15 and final 20 when we went to 10 men. When Aluko was going at them and Maguire playing off Miller we looked dangerous. Motherwell were not impressive and didn't look anything like a 'form team'. As I have said before the most depressing thing was the lack of urgency across our team, the negative feeling in the team was palpable.

They are getting results at home but they were not bouncing against Falkrirk in their last game away. I wouldn't assume anything about how this game will go.

Not to mention liking a wee boy to play him off or summink

For me the top 6 discussion is a microcosm of the bigger problem. 3 years ago I felt positive about the idea of regular top 6 performances and the message coming from the club and its management that we aimed for it year on year was most welcome. 3 years later I'm not so turned out by the idea. To keep the enthusiasm and belief running through my veins I need to hear a new target, a new idea of progress. I'm not interested in simple stability anymore. In that 3 year period established top 6 teams like Kilmarnock and Hibs have become very weakened. So called CL finalists like Hearts have lowered there expectations markedly, Rangers have flurted regularly with the trap door into 3rd and increasingly look like a poor version of the team of 5 years ago and even Celtic are struggling to deliver quality consistently. The top of our league has softened and I want to see us take advantage of that. I think with a good management we should be seeing 2nd as a relaistic goal with the mess Rangers are in. That may seem ridiculous but I would like to see us at least talk like we believe in it. Can this apologetic bullshit and talk with some balls.

As bored as I was I neglected to count but I'd say 600 maybe ?

I'd say stagnated rather than backwards. Its hard to argue that we are going forwards and that is what is most worrying for me. I use the word stagnated as I not only think that we are struggling to offer anything more than previous seasons but that the players do not look like they want to change that. To me that means stagnation.

I have pretty much pushed THAT result back to the darkened recesses of my mind now and I really want to see that we can spring back from it. I have been at both our games since then and have been craving a reaction, some sort of spark of hunger, desire or just plain balls out anger from the players. This is that bit that really fucks me up. You only have to look at guys like Mulgrew to see that either the players are not in the least bit hurt, despite what they say in the papers or they are feeling so dejected by the messages that are coming from our support/management/club/media that they have lost the will to perform. Whatever the reasons, our heads are well and truly down and the pathetic little gathering that I stood amongst at Fir Park on Saturday really reflected very badly on where we are at present. Its ugly and I don't like it.

We are still in a strong position in terms of the league and securing Europe but we are doing our level best to toss that away. Its only down to the poor recent performances of UTD and the stuttering form of the likes of Motherwell and Hibs that sees us there. On the plus side, imagine being a UTD fan. You are being tipped as the best of the rest and your manager is being tarted about as the next Rangers or Scotland boss. You are told that week-in-week-out that your team is strong, consistent and can match the OF regularly. Yet you are still sitting in 5th behind an Aberdeen side who are protesting about their manager and deserting their games in droves due to the unacceptable level of football on display.

Aluko for me. He was the only player who had any sense of urgency. Maguire would have been next option.

Pretty decent summary. One thing I would add is that Mulgrew looked like he had no interest again. He drags himself around the pitch like a petulant teenager these days and makes no effort to work at all. In the current climate, its very fucking frustrating to watch. I didn't think Motherwell dominated us as much as it sounds like the radio said. They were pretty ineffective and if we had played Aluko from the start and had Kerr I think we would have beaten them reasonably comfortably.

I'm setting up a donations site to help out. Get in and start the ball rolling. http://www.fundastade.com/feasability/consultation/dragheels/pipedream