bloo_toon_red

3 wins in 21 competitive games and a team seemingly going backwards. The only conceivable positive (and I'm really clutching at a very thin straw here) is that having lost 3 goals tonight, our players can learn an expensive lesson withough significantly damaging any league form. Somehow however I realise that our players have such limited footballing intelligence to make any real fucking difference. He shouldn't be given the chance to resign. He has NOT signed good players like everyone suggests, only stop-gaps. He should be fired and then Milne should turn the gun on himself.

Bunch of fucking wage thieves. How in the fuck can you justify losing 3 goals at home to a team that is bottom of the second division? The club is dead and the sooner the 3,964 mugs that turned up tonight realise it the sooner the man who has run it into the ground will be hounded out of the fucking place. Ruthless businessman or not, he should be utterly ashamed to show his face in public in Aberdeen. He can shove his fucking white elephant of a stadium up his fucking tight arse. But what will happen? Absolutely nothing I bet.

That's not quite right but it's on the right lines. Particularly in Brown's case, it was more to do with what the buying team thought he was worth in terms of the contract they were offering. No Hibs player was on a basic of more than £2,000 per week at that time. Newcastle Utd and Bolton Wanderers offered good money for Brown in the transfer window previous to the one that he moved to Celtic. The offers were refused but Hibs, and Brown's agent, used that to negotiate a better contract with Celtic. Celtic in an attempt to stave off competition from those two clubs offered Brown a very big contract, which over the duration of it would net him personally £4m, and Rod Petrie therefore proclaimed that if Celtic were prepared to pay him that much, then that is obviously what he was worth. Petrie played hardball knowing that Bolton had put in another offer. Rangers weren't prepared to pay the money but Celtic were desperate to get him and so they caved in and paid up. Similar happened with Craig Gordon and Alan Hutton's transfers to Sunderland and Spurs, and, dare I say it, Russell Anderson's transfer to Sunderland. Doesn't happen in every case, but to look at the Fyvie situation from a buying club's point of view, he's young, talented but still a risk. EPL clubs could afford to chuck him a 4-yr deal at £5k pw (so £1m), and if he doesn't make the cut, loan him out or cut their losses - £1m is small change to these guys these days. At 18 yrs old, with less than 30 top team games in a poor Aberdeen FC side, nobody is going to throw him the kind of contract that will net AFC any more than the kind of figures being mentioned. Because the wealth gap is wider than it's ever been, Scottish clubs will take the money and more young talent will be lost from our league. I would rather keep him for another season and risk losing him for similar money or less, if only for him to develop his talent, and I wish more young players would do the same rather than drop their drawers for the first English club that comes calling.

The more I've thought about it as time has worn on, the more I am in favour of the ten team SPL with a ten team second tier and regional leagues below that. There are only around 20 full-time teams here. Whilst a 16-team league seems less repetitive for players and fans, it isn't sustainable to play only 30 league games in a season at a time when we can't attract, nor keep, good players here. A comment was made earlier in this thread about there being a dearth of young talent. I don't actually think that there is. The problem is simply that young players can have one good season in the SPL and be lured by the big bucks on offer in the lower English leagues. They don't allow themselves to be nurtured into mature, consistent performers. The reality in the majority of cases is that so many of these players don't possess the necessary experience to adapt down south - how many players have become "homesick" or plain disappeared? The parachute payment system down south has now come to bear fruit insofar as there are now a number of teams in the Championship with real financial muscle, spreading the wealth about with big transfer fees. A fixture list in a 16 team SPL would always throw up at least 2 fixtures every week of the calibre of Hamilton v St Johnstone, Falkirk v St Mirren, with sub-4k attendances. And each season, there is a clear and present danger of a Cowdenbeath, a Brechin or a Stranraer gaining promotion to the top league. It's romantic, yes, but is this what we want to showcase to the world? Do we want 5k in Pittodrie to watch Aberdeen v Cowdenbeath, and another similar crowd a fortnight later when Hamilton come calling? A ten team SPL pits the best against the best most weeks, there will be better quality, there will be more interest in games and in turn generate more cashflow. More cashflow, a bit more razzmatazz and glamour, players gain confidence from playing in a competitive league, attractive to sponsors and who knows what could be possible. Radically alter the league cup. Call it the "SPL Invitational". Invite teams from Holland, Belgium and Scandinavia to take part; have either a group stage set-up or play over two legs - the 20 SPL teams and 12 foreign. Giving Scottish players experience of playing against foreign opposition in a competitive environment, preparing them for the future rigours of European or International competition. Might help our national coaches to take notice of promising young players before they get their moves to Rangers, Celtic or Derby County! Maybe even spring a few surprises. All about the money? Perhaps. But just look where our young talent are looking towards, and then try and convince me that 20% less games, half of them meaningless and uncompetitive, in a 30-game season in front of small crowds will improve things.

I guess the truth is that Brown wasn't going to transform the team in one mid-season transfer window and I'd like to think the majority of fans with a shred of common sense realise that. The point I was making was that he knows a player when he sees one as exemplified by his signings in January, and he and Knox have a good track record of developing young players too. People can decide for themselves if they've had enough and they'd be entitled to make that choice given the rubbish we have had to deal with, no doubt about it. However, this season is over and a new season means a new start. There are seeds of optimism with the young players coming through, very likely 3 or 4 decent players coming in, and whether you are on board with it or not, an eye to the future with new modern facilities which will arguably be the best in the country. We haven't had alot to be positive about in the recent past, but let's try and stay positive for the new season and give the new squad a chance. The negativity around Pittodrie has been so damaging for years. The club has their duty to give us something to shout about but we as fans also have a duty to back our team to the hilt and a bit of positive volition goes a long way.

11th May 2012 Craig Brown and Archie Knox's transformed youthful Aberdeen side cement their Europa League place and an upcoming trip to Hampden for their first cup final in over a decade. Having turned down 7-figure sums for rising starlets Fraser Fyvie and Peter Pawlett who have dominated the Dons midfield in an impressive season, AFC have earned rave reviews for their style of play and next season the young side being a year older and wiser are expected to mount a serious title bid as a fitting farewell to fortress Pittodrie. WHat a difference a year can make. We have finished MMcG's second season of transition season meekly but with a grossly depleted squad filled with youngsters. I have faith that Brown will sign at least 3 or 4 very good quality players this summer. The likes of Smith, Milsom and Blackman (although the latter's form seems to have dipped since the beginning of the season) are all good players for this squad and I expect more of the same quality to be brought in this summer. Brown and Knox will also vastly improve the young players on our books with a solid pre-season behind them. AFC will be much, much better next year and we'll get back to top 6. If we're not up there, I'll give you the money myself. Keep the faith.

I don't much see the talent thing over and above his obvious cockiness. His decision-making on and off the ball is still very poor for a lad who's now been 4 full seasons in the first team. The only things really keeping him in the spotlight is the lack of competition of places for the Dons forward places - let's remember he played most of the early part of the season on the right wing, and the aforementioned cocky, brash attitude. I was delighted for AFC when he got his Scotland cap, but pretty embarrassed as a Scotland fan at the same time. I'll lose no sleep whatsoever when he moves on, in fact I'll be absolutely delighted that we will get a 4-figure sum of money for him. How many has he scored in the SPL this season - 4 goals!? Granted he has provided a good number of assists, and to be fair he does possess some crossing ability, but the flip-side is that cocky Maguire types are ten a penny and he'll be found out in the Championship or League One. Like MBT says, I'll look forward to him coming back to the lower reaches of the SPL in 2 years time and see him filed under the same headings as the likes of Mark Burchill, Alan Gow, etc, etc...

New GK has to be very low on the list of priorities unless Broon happens to unearth a gem. Unlikely he'll be able to find better on such a low budget but the challenge is there nonetheless. Those priorities in my opinion, in order: 1 A commanding central defender x2 With a calming influence on our bombscare-friendly back four. One CB may be enough if a fit Considine can find some consistency, the worry is that McArdle is not good enough to light a fire under anyone at this level. I do suspect that we will need to see a breakthrough from the likes of Joe Shaughnessy or one of the other young lads next season. I also have a sneaking suspicion that Andy Considine could indeed be club captain next season. 2 A left-back (unless Smith stays) Hopefully the aforementioned Smith decides to stay on. 3 A left-sided midfield player With Aluko expected to go, a replacement of a similar ilk to give the fans a bit of excitement will be needed in a side that is quite one-dimensional. Milsom can play there, but he's not a winger in the sense that Aluko is. Interesting to note that Jamie Smith still has his house in Westhill... 4 An experienced or energetic central midfielder Whether he retires or not, Hartley's legs have gone and he hasn't contributed enough on the pitch. Fyvie, Folly, Milsom and to a lesser extent Jack have the CM places more than covered and it will be exciting to see especially how Fyvie kicks on under Brown and Knox, but a midfield general in the truest sense is what we need. 5 A good "second striker" to play off Vernon With Maguire expected to be gone, I don't think we can expect Paton, Mackie or Magennis to step up to fill his boots. Perhaps a good pre-season from Paton would make him the number one candidate but he's lost almost an entire year following a perceived fall-out with Dingus and I think his ship may have sailed as a result. 6 A right-sided midfield player Can we rely on glass-legs Pawlett to make the RW spot his own? 7 A new goalkeeper Langfield needs better consistency next season and to improve his concentration. There will be good keepers out there but I don't agree that he costs us alot of points over the course of a season and the wage budget is better served on the outfield creative positions in a team that doesn't score enough goals. On the contrary, his record at saving penalties is impressive. With a better, and more settled back four in front of him, he will do better. AFC rarely played the same back four for 3 or 4 games in succession last season and it must be remembered that Considine, Diamond, Ifil, McArdle and Vujadinovic all played at CB and FB last season. Where's the consistency in that!? I think Brown will sign a couple of good players this summer and I imagine there will be plenty of "homesick" Scots in the Championship who would jump at the chance of a move to play under him at Pittodrie. Pure idle speculation for speculation's sake, but someone like Gavin Rae, perhaps now missed his last chance of playing in the EPL at age 32 (?), might fancy finishing his days in his home city for example and I think we'd be glad to have him. Maybe a cheeky stab at getting Mehdi Taouil from Kilmarnock unless he's set on joining JJ at Hearts. I've liked the boy Humphrey at Motherwell whenever I've seen him, but don't know his contract situation. All in all, a complete squad revamp is needed.

Having no gone 16 years without any silverware, this is now officially the least succesful period in the club's post-war history. Isn't it also the case that every current SPL club bar Hamilton have been to a cup final over the past 10 years and that therefore (good UEFA Cup run apart) we could arguably be considered as the most under-achieving football club in Scotland? With little "success" to speak of it is hardly surprising that many people of a certain age can quite easily find other ways of entertaining themselves on a Saturday afternoon, and no amount of knitting a flag about how it's all "in your blood" can change that. BB's statement of the technical deficiency of the current squad is as alarming as it is true. I mean no disrespect to some of the younger lads, but when some people are creaming over how "good" someone like Ryan Jack is, then you begin to wonder where AFC is really heading. I for one cannot see this particular player having a long-term future in the SPL. Admittedly however, if anyone is going to turn him into a player it is Brown (and Knox), but my feeling remains the same. Pawlett has a chance if he can stay fit, Paton I feel has missed the boat, Fyvie will be OK but the lack of youngsters - particularly defensive players - banging down the doors of a technically very poor Aberdeen team is presently very very worrying. All this lack of success on the pitch and a new stadium on the way to take our mids off it. A new stadium will be but an edifice to Milne's failure to oversee any silverware during his own stewartship. Just build it in timber frame for under £500 per square metre and bury him under it. It would be a fitting epitaph.

And with that, he showed what a right arrogant Malcolm Tucker he was.

I realise all of this, and whilst I am neither for or against a new stadium, I am all for anything that is designed to safeguard the club's future. What I am against is this idea of the club hiding behind UEFA stadium criteria, stating this is the reason we have to move and an effort to get the fans onside with it. That is not a reason to move, it is merely one of the (admittedly many) advantages of moving which are primarily financially related.

Hmmmmm.... OK, let you off on that one (even though they only ever open the lower tier of the South Stand). I was pre-empting comments on the urban myth that Easter Rd is now bigger than Pittodrie. I'd say that 1700 seats is a fair margin, but it's not that important at the end of the day - their average crowds are still bigger than ours. I worked briefly on the design of Hibs new East Stand and at one point the design would have made it marginally bigger than Pittodrie and incorporating more executive boxes, but HFC decided to maintain a "Kop" style design generating atmosphere rather than a "two-tiered" one that generally doesn't. With a bit more vision and ambition, AFC could stay at Pittodrie if the powers that be wanted it badly enough. The opportunity to cash in on the land and drive down the debt is driving this and nothing else.

Still the 3rd largest by a fair margin.

An away win at Easter Rd with the run we're on is undoubtedly better in my opinion even against an admittedly poor Hibs side, it shows we might just have the minerals for the fight after all. Having not been at the game, can anyone confirm if Considine was paired in the centre with Diamond? St Mirren snatching a late winner was disappointing today but with a six pointer now on Weds, we can then start to look at the teams above us again. I'm feeling very optimistic about 2011 - a couple more experienced players in January and I have a real sneaking feeling we'll see a Brown Bounce towards our first Hampden final in ten years.

That's right baggy, he played well that night. I remember his shirt from that game ending up on ebay and I put an offer in for it. You know how much it eventually sold for? Funster or padre will tell you... Ajja, other than the pleasure of your company on that crisp tuesday afternoon, I'm not sure I want to remember much about those few days...

McGregor and Gallacher from your list are better than Langfield in my opinion, though that said, I don't know if Gallacher has perhaps regressed a little. Cerny and Pernis are decent keepers but no more, Forster has only been at Celtic for two minutes and doesn't strike me as being superior to Zaluska, so other than the two Scottish keepers on the list, there's not much to separate the rest and that's not staggering in the slightest, it's not as if they get rave reviews in the media each week - I recall John Ruddy getting good reviews last season and rightly so, every time I saw him he looked like a really good keeper. It depends which slant you take on it. Under any circumstances his performances need to drastically improve, no doubt, but to give one example, any keeper who can put in the type of performance like he put in in Dnipropetrovsk must have talent in there somewhere. He does have issues with his confidence and I think he reached a water-shed moment in Mallorca and after that embarrassing stain on his reputation he went on to have a dry run in the team for a while where he managed to find consistency a good record of clean sheets. Seems to have pissed those days away since that good run though...

Stella's been winning it from day one in my opinion. Although I've got to admit I've been distraught since Sandeesh left, those eyes were hypnotic. http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/polopoly_fs/showbiz_apprentice_161638_1_729827!image/305440054.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_225/305440054.jpg[/img]

Not guilty m'lud. I don't personally think attitude is the issue and I think attitude is an easy target for lazy fans, I think it it is confidence and ability, or more pertinently a lack thereof. Langfield's problem is a real lack of consistency. He is a better keeper than Howard no question, but he seems to have regressed in the past year and a half. On his day (which admittedly doesn't come around often enough) he is on a par, if not better than most of the keepers on allys's post, only Gallacher I would suggest is an all-round better keeper. Marian Kello's a cereal fumbler...

Not at all. I'd think it's quite clear from the points I've put across in this thread that I am giving an alternative view. You are entitled to disagree if you so wish just as everyone else is (even though you're not particularly disagreeing), and just as I have the prerogative to put my point across in whatever way I feel is necessary. For example my comments in the "Does Nobody Care Anymore" thread to which you refer here, my comments were designed to be deliberately inflammatory to try and stir up some kind of passion and debate about what we want our team to be. You wont get much argument from me with regard to Young's limited ability, and if he goes in January, so be it. But if he stays he deserves the same clean slate that our new manager will give him. What I'm talking about is getting back some of the spirit of '95. OK, we had a much better squad of players back then, but most, if not all of them would say that the fans truly were the 12th man during that run-in. I don't criticise anyone for turning their back on the team during this dismal spell, nor do I like to criticise those who wish to let their feelings be known about players, christ knows I've done it often enough myself, as many of the posters here will testify - I am simply advocating that we should trust our manager for the next few months and give the players a clean slate until such time as we can see that Broon and Knox cannot tangibly improve their performances. I don't think either me nor BB are slagging each other, just healthy debate that's all. BB I think did take exception to some things I said in the above mentioned thread but he's very much entitled to take that view and like I said, it was designed to be inflammatory, but for all the right reasons, as I'd like to hope that he himself as a good poster on this site, would understand.

Because, to echo ST’s comment, when a team is on a bad run, underperforming players should be dropped and replaced with the next one in the pecking order. It’s a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don’t situation. The fans want to see changes but if that change comes in the shape of Derek Young (who hasn't been used at all often in this manner under McGhee, which was my original point), then it’s as if they’d rather stick with the status quo and moan about it. Until a transfer window comes and Young is replaced with a player of better standard, he is as good as we have and no single supporter has the power to change that, ergo there’s no point folk bumping their gums about him answering a question that was posed to him in the media in an honest, truthful manner. Perhaps he is symptomatic of a certain poor standard of player that we have, but the previous manager should’ve moved him on if that was the case. As for vitriol, I am talking about what goes on on a Saturday afternoon when we have the power to influence the nature of a football match. Between now and the end of the season a ninety minute siege mentality is what is needed every Saturday, and we can make the players – even Derek Young – ten feet tall if they know how much we are behind them. This is the point I am making, I am not pretending Young is a top-notch player, what I am saying is that while he is still here, those of us who are still attending games can and should do everything in our power to get good, committed performances from him and the rest of the team on a consistent basis. Anyone who has stopped going and is still swithering about coming back to Pittodrie – please come in and support your team this Saturday, we need you!

During this awful run of results, and also during McGhee's dismal tenure as manager, Derek Young has barely started any games in his most effective position (which incidentally in my opinion is on the right side of midfield). McGhee came in, had a look at Young, rightly or wrongly simply didn't fancy him and set about playing him at right-back. Young, as one of our most experienced players (like it or not) was sidelined rather than being let go by McGhee (which he probably should've done). A new man has come in, and Young realises, rightly so, that he has a new chance with a new manager. There is not a single player in our team who, if they were to lose their place to Young, could complain one little bit, and that sentiment should extend to the fans in their thoughts on him. Young was frozen out by McGhee and as far as I'm concerned there is a strong chance he could come back rejuvenated by a good coach and manager. Until anything happens otherwise, we need to get behind guys like Young for the rest of the season if we are to get out of this mess we are in, he deserves a run in the team in his favoured position in midfield ahead of the likes of Maguire or even Folly whose recent performances have been dreadful. We all have our opinions about how good or bad the players are, but the safety of our club in the SPL transcends any of this nonsense and we need to channel our vitriol and hatred towards the opposition from here on in and make Pittodrie a hateful place again for opposition clubs, and not indeed towards the Mackies and Youngs of this world.

Sharp as always MBT!

Diamond, Considine, Pawlett, Fyvie, Jack, Robertson, Aluko, Maguire, Paton, Fraser, Megginson. To varying extents, these are ten young players who have shown glimpses of real promise. Do not underestimate the impact that a coach like Craig Brown (and Archie Knox) can have on these players. He has such a wealth of experience and respect from top class players and managers alike that he can leave a lasting impression on young players purely from the respect that his experience creates. He will improve our young players, of that I am 100% certain. He will demand nothing less that to get them playing to a consistent level. If these young players can form a spine to our team, then supplemented with two or three more experienced players, I have faith that this Aberdeen team can really kick on. McGhee didn't have it in him to improve these players, Brown has the track record to prove that he will. That is the foundation that he will build.

I'm delighted with these developments, a well-respected, intelligent, media-savvy, experienced manager with a good track record of developing young players. Obviously not a long-term appointment, but to steady the ship, build a good base for the next man to come in. Now we'll really see what the likes of Maguire, Diamond, Aluko et al are made of - Broon takes no prisoners and will either sort them out or move them on. The board of directors have got the right man as far as I'm concerned and have now bought themselves some time to sort the club out.

Typical Dons fans living in the past! Jennifer Ellison is a borderline BBW these days, definitely creeping into Cts territory. If that's not right, I'll give you the money myself.