bloo_toon_red

Continuing the motown theme, arguably the finest pop record ever produced: And this is one of the best cover versions ever:

Going by the nick of her on Family Fortunes the other night, she's showing all the right attributes to suggest she's been at the content of your pie thread...

Folly, Considine and Vernon have not done much wrong to deserve being on your list Reekie, but all can still contribute a bit more. I'd go as far as saying that every name on that list could potentially have a future at the club with the right management, with the obvious exception of Ifil of course. We need to be strengthened in every single department, this much is true, but a mass clearout is not the answer, we'd be back to square one if that happened.

As has been alluded to in other threads, I sincerely hope that the board are aiming higher than merely the names on this list. Billy Stark is not the man for the job at this moment in time, he doesn't have enough personality, and I cannot understand at all the clamour for John McGlynn, who for me would be a wholly uninspiring appointment. Neither of them would last two minutes with our support. We need someone whose profile and stock is higher than the names on this list, with the possible exception of Craig Brown, or perhaps Phil Brown. It is a big job - it's not solely about short-term survival, it's about weeding out Mark's Dross and getting back to our rightful place in football. I don't have confidence in any of the names on this list other than those mentioned. For track record and profile alone, Jimmy Calderwood and Stuart Baxter have to be considered as better options than 90% of those on the list.

They weren't at the time they first took over and much was made of the fact they hadn't signed a contract, but I think they eventually did. I reckon they could do a job, but they'd hardly be a long-term appointment now that Broon is 70.

What a difference a day makes... Not quite sure how to proceed now but the positive aspect of all of this is that some kind of positive action has now at least been taken, and that some sort of change is now afoot. The board now have one last chance to get this right.

We need a man with personality and character, who can command respect, instill discipline and hard work and demand backs-to-the-wall performances every single week. Basically speaking, there are not many of them on the list of people mentioned, I reckon we could have to look at an appointment completely from left-field, someone nobody here has thought about. Here's an example from left-field for you: Lars Lagerback. It might need to be someone like him. Experienced, available (for how much I don't know) and with a completely fresh approach.

Following on from the number of recent threads surrounding the sorry state of Aberdeen FC, I realise most of us have differing opinions on what the club ought to do to rectify the situation. Many of us want a change of manager, many of us want a change in the make-up of the board of directors, above all - all of us want a competitive team on the pitch. A new stadium would be nice, clearing off the debt would be nice, but in those instances we are not necessarily worse off than the other teams in the SPL. We are not competitive in the SPL and the signs are that the players and management team have run out of answers, and that the board have run out of time to come up with fresh ideas. Now, regardless of how each of us personally feel to be the right way forward, is there a way where we can blur those divisions, and unite behind a common cause - regardless of where the CHANGE comes, can we all agree that there needs to be CHANGE? If we can agree on this, then this binds us and helps us to take the first step towards making our collective voice heard. Beyond this point, and I haven't completely thought this through yet, we can move to the next level, whatever we consider that to be, whether they be meetings with the club, protests, whatever. Can you please vote in this poll if you want to try and effect CHANGE now, or if you would prefer to let things run their course?

Speaking of JC, with the 4th most votes in the previous poll, why no Jimmy Calderwood? It's no more unrealistic than Curbishley or Burley...

You are right, universal support should not be expected, but neither was the backlash I received from one or two of the clubs reps. There were only really three or four supporters clubs who suggestd they were fully on board. I had tentative discussions with the PR dept at AFC who encouraged me to proceed. I took the view at the time that there were some really polarised views within the support and that the timing wasn't right for me to be the person responsible for effectively dividing the support further - in addition I also considered that any re-forming of the AASC should be done at a time when AFC's fortunes are more positive in order for everyone to form relationships without divisive opinion. I had intended to pick up again at the end of season 08-09, but I stepped down from GUASC and effectively lost my mouthpiece. But better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all.

Supporters Clubs have a loud voice in the make-up of our support, but they do not represent the full spectrum of the make-up of the support. It would be interesting to know what percentage of supporters at home games aren't affiliated to clubs - I would guess it is quite easily well over 50%. Two years ago, when I ran GUASC, I made an effort to re-form the Association of Aberdeen Supporters Clubs. Some were interested, some weren't, some were downright hostile - for example the Glasgow and West Club were more interested in pointing out my club's flaws than they were about uniting. So, the idea fell flat on its face. So BB you'll see that I have tried in the past to generate a forward-thinking movement and it did not gain momentum. There seems to be even less desire in this instance. Any movement against the hierarchy of the club needs to be large, well-supported, sustained and above all, effective and just. Point is, the support is divided, perhaps beyond repair. I wish everyone thought the same way as me, but the fact is that they don't. The fire just isn't there and it is tragic.

I concur with the original post and have done so for a considerable amount of time. For all of my thoughts on the subject, see everything I said in my previous topic: http://www.donstalk.co.uk/messageboard/index.php?topic=13324.0 Shame it takes a record defeat to stir up the senses, shows the extreme apathy we have in our support...

I'll add some fuel to this fire, all of the above glosses over the fact that he hasn't actually played very well since he's signed for us. Not the worst by any stretch, but he shouldn't be immune from criticism for his own performances and he needs to step up and lead by example.

Follwoing on from the motor vehicle debate, I can vouch for Hondas although the power range does tend to come at high revs. Therefore, for mid-range torque, the finest motor vehicle ever created was the thinking man's BMW itself, the SAAB 900 Turbo: I sold this wonderful vehicle for a 50% profit earlier this year and I wish I'd kept it. The complete motor vehicle, easily leave behind a 5-series at traffic lights, even with an Ikea wardrobe in the boot.

You see, I don't get this attitude at all. This is the same attitude that subscribes to the "yeah we could get rid of McGhee, but I can't think that there's nobody else out there better to do the job". We as fans don't make the decisions, we trust our club to make the correct decisions in footballing and budgetary terms. And when we can't trust them anymore: Then the fans turn. There absolutely has to be better out there. Other teams manage to do it on lesser budgets, so why can't our manager? The crux of the issue is we still have the 4th highest football budget in Scotland but currently only have the 11th best team. McGhee has bought poorly. He made such a big meal in the summer about finding hungry young boys to play for us. He found one hungry old boy whom he is using ineffectively in footballing terms due to long ball tactics, and a group of others who have not improved last year's miserable team. I've sat behind the dugout for the last three home games and been completely unimpressed with the lack of direction or urgency coming from it. When any instruction is passed on, the players look decidedly fed-up. I think the players mentioned here seem to have been poorly managed. Aluko, Diamond and Langfield do not suddenly become poor footballers. How can one manager manage to get such good performances from them and then the next one can't? It's not all down to the attitude of the players.

Chris Crighton's opinions are no more or less relevant than those of the rest of us. He confirms this with the final two lines of his article which are fundamentally divisive and false. The "us" he refers to is not the universal "us" of everyone associated with Aberdeen FC, but is the "us" of the "us and them" mentality that is being perpetuated by the whole sorry situation that has been continually played out over the last year and a half - in the unrelenting optimism of those that blindly support Mark McGhee and those who see the signs that are there right in front of us. If he is to be given a mouthpiece in this way, he needs to use it responsibly. Blind faith does not improve football clubs, it only means your eyes are closed to what constitutes acceptable performance. Our club is rotten, but not so rotten as to consider our current league position acceptable. I will personally continue to support the club through thick and thin, as I, and many of you here have done over the years. But to castigate those who choose not to support Mark McGhee, in the currrent circumstances, is shameful.

Going with the people I've spoken to in Aberdeen over the last few days, I'd say the poll here is fairly representative of what I've encountered, the city seems to be in the midst of a kind of depressive bloodlust.

Logical enough, as I said yesterday Tommy Craig was at the game on Tuesday, so there's a not-completely-unbelievable tenuous link there...

I agree with all of this. The players we have are under-performing and many have lost faith in McGhee's ability to motivate them. Despite what some media reports suggested, there was no real Herculean effort on Tuesday night from the players and on the few occasions that McGhee sent instructions to players, they appeared to be carried out with some reluctance. A new man will hopefully be able to get that extra 10-20% that these players are capable of. Over the course of his 17-month tenure as Aberdeen manager, can anybody suggest any good results that McGhee has provided?

There's probably about 5,000 missing fans who should consider the very same thing.

Whether we wanted JC sacked or not 18 months ago is neither here nor there. The here and now of the situation is that we have regressed under McGhee. You can blame under-investment all you like, and even though I agree with that to an extent, it is the same story for every other SPL club. We still have a budget that should be good enough to attract players better than those who go to the ICTs and Motherwells of this world. So the question has to be this - why aren't we doing better than we currently are? There are a plethora of convoluted and contrived answers to that question going back over the 15 years of Milne's disastrous involvement with AFC, but the very simple answer in this current situation is that the players just aren't good enough, players McGhee has signed, players that McGhee persists with, players that McGhee puts out on the pitch to play in a certain way. The players have zero creative freedom and play a very rigid system where the ball goes from back to front very quickly, bypassing our midfield and our most influential player. Point being, a better manager will get more out of the players we have. McGhee stated he wanted hungry players. It looks to me like most of the other teams have hungrier players than we do. Bar one or two individuals, our team has no heart, no bottle and no fight. The saddest fact is that whilst Hartley ticks this box, it only serves to show that none of the rest of them do. We need a team full of leaders to get us out of this situation. In other words, what happens NOW is important, not what happened a year and a half ago, so let's stop bleating about the past and get behind the team at a time when they need us most. Milne isn't important, Miller isn't important, McGhee isn't important, the survival of our club is important and it wont survive without support.

That may well be true, but he is definitely not fit and so it is very difficult to judge him. In general I am disappointed with the lack of fitness in the squad. I thought against Falkirk a couple of weeks ago the players were very very tired after the Saturday game and it looked like more of the same last night. There was plenty of effort when we had the ball, but a real lack of quality with the end product and at this level effort is a minimum requirement, but quality marks out the haves from the have-nots. When we didn't have the ball, we didn't press them and we let them have too much cheap possession.

Folly was very poor, aluko is not fit, diamond and mcardle looked ropey. For all this supposed 'effort', ther was zero quality. It was headless chicken stuff most of the time, a serious lack of composure and nobody willing to take responsibility. There were no positives to take from the game. I genuinely felt sorry for mcghee at the final whistle but when I heard his interview that sympathy evaporated. If he was satisfied with that performance then it is a clear sign that he is not up to the job, as if we needed any more confirmation. I do not expect him to be in the job by saturday. It's not a nice feeling wishing anyone to lose their job and his face at the end of the game was a sad picture, but it hasn't worked out, and it isn't going to.

I didn't make the connection with collins, you could be on to something there... Good work!

Tommy Craig was in the Main Stand tonight, he slipped in just after kick-off. Consider yourselves warned...