RicoS321

It certainly is a conundrum. There are so many competing interests at play too. For me, he should be looking at Hickey's success at Bologna as a template. However, the issue will be one of cost, and I simply don't think a Bologna or the like will be able to afford him if there is any genuine interest from Liverpool. In that regard, what's best for him isn't necessarily what's best for AFC (we want the most money). That said, it depends how AFC view Ramsay. Is he a once in 30 year enigma, or is he the level of player we aim to churn out every few years? If it's the former, then we should take the long term view and accept less money now in the hope of more money later from a sell-on. That would send out the best message to players and other clubs that we are serious about developing the best. If he's a one-off (I think so) then we look to gain as much money now, and sell to the highest bidder. From Ramsay's perspective, it's a question of what he has to gain from being at Liverpool. If he's not getting a game, then he has to gain significantly from the training regime and training with better players. However, if he's immediately shipped out on loan then I'm guessing that there's little benefit derived for the player from the parent club. We've seen it hundreds of times in this country, where the big two snap up all the talent in the hope that they get the one that returns success. It's a pretty rancid business model, that doesn't put the player first and increases the inequality in the game. If they put a clear plan for him in place, I'm guessing he could weigh it up. As for staying at the dons, I don't really see it as beneficial for either party (unless he's loaned back to us). Next season is going to be another year of transition, with a lot of hit and miss on the transfer side of things. We're really not a stable, confident, club that can offer Ramsay a solid base to grow. Our defence is a shambles, and we'll likely have a new keeper. Midfield and up front will be renewed completely. There's really only Hayes that you'd class as a positive, professional, experienced role model (McRorie has that without the experience). Liverpool are interested in Ramsay because he has the ability to get there if things work out for him. I don't see us having the resources in place at the moment that will get him there unfortunately. I don't think Barron is at Ramsay's level of potential, and so we could definitely offer him the base to move on in a similar path to that of Kenny McLean or Scott McKenna. Ramsay's ceiling is way higher in my opinion (obviously, I shouldn't need to say it, there's a huge gap from current to potential player). Take the money and run.

I just checked, in the previous three league seasons (not this one, obviously) Considine gave away three pens (one for handball). Not really regular by any stretch.

Gallagher had a pish final season at Motherwell. You don't fluke your way into the national team, but there are lots of examples of players who just have a good season or so (18-24 months in Gallagher's case) and then live off that. I have a feeling Gallagher might be that guy. Bates was in purely because he played for the Huns and Hamburg and was expected to be good rather than based on performance. He's played more games for us this season than he's ever played in his career, but at 25 I'm hoping that he might fulfill his potential. I genuinely think most of his issues are to do with playing on the left. His body shape is just constantly wrong. He got easily skinned yesterday in a one on one because he had his weight on his wrong foot, setup as if he were facing a player on the opposite side. When he walks out of defence with the ball he keeps it between his feet to avoid taking it on his weaker left, which results in him having to hook his right foot round the ball or adjust his position and hurry his pass. It's so obvious, I'm surprised none of the coaching staff have forced it out of him. I think he could be half decent on the right side of defence. McRorie was honking on that side too for what it's worth. I'd let Gallagher leave and switch Bates right and let Turner battle it out for a place with somebody much better than Dunne.

That's not obvious at all, that's something you've convinced yourself is true but you're not backing up with evidence. Bates has given away 2 this season (Gallagher one). I doubt Considine has ever given away more than that in a season. Maybe in his first couple of seasons. The Wikipedia definition for the term gifting penalties actually had to be rewritten after Bates' disaster against utd, as they'd found the pinnacle of examples. You're right, we have no idea, but given Goodwin offered him a contract, it suggests he was deemed fit. I doubt he'd have lost much from his game in that short a space of time. His game has never been based on pace, it's not like he'd have to adapt. No player is guaranteed game time. What is likely to have been said, and correctly so, is that he's a better left centre back than the existing options and he should be ahead of them in the team. He should be in the team now. The problem I have (and I expect Andy had) is that both Bates and Gallagher will be expecting to be first team players, and with moving Considine on it suggests that is being granted. He's being overlooked for worse players quite simply.

You're going to have to show me the evidence on the point in bold. Pretty certain that's not true. Considine got his first Scotland caps after he was too slow to play left back. It wasn't an issue, just as it isn't for mulgrew and many others. To clarify, I'm not suggesting he should be playing every week, I think we should be signing a left sided centre half. The only points I'm making is that he's already better than the two centre backs we have on the left and he's a fantastic and safe player to have as a reliable squad member. Panda mentioned the youth lad playing in Ireland, so hopefully he can be the reliable squad member instead. I can see us playing Gallagher and Bates (probably shoehorning them into a three) next season in order to justify their wages. It's a crap situation. I'd like to see one, or both, released, but that would make the ditching of Considine even more perplexing.

Because they're really, really shite? Also, neither of them can actually play left side of defence. I didn't see any evidence of Considine slowing and declining pre injury, he started the season well and was doing fine. Plenty of defenders play in the SPFL until their late thirties, it's not difficult. Mulgrew just played 90 minutes in midfield for Utd today, there's nothing in Considine's history to suggest he wouldn't manage otherwise, and you're not providing any evidence of that either. Goodwin even offered him a contract. But the reason he's not playing is because it wouldn't look good, not because of ability (which is fine, the damage is already done). The problem is that we're stuck with Bates and Gallagher next season now, and if they're continued to be played as a partnership we'll do as badly as this season (Willie Miller and Michael Stewart also said as much after the game, it's obvious). The alternative is that we have either Bates or Gallagher on the bench, which I think will be terrible for squad harmony. Both are likely on large wages and will likely be on better wages than whoever comes in to replace one of them. Either that or we let one of them go in the summer, in which case we're adding another acquisition to a massive recruitment list which I think is stupid. We should be getting rid of one of them, it just makes much more sense having a good professional who's played 500 games for the club to challenge for the first team position rather than one of two very expensive failures.

A decent result today and deserved in the end. A good second hand performance, whatever Goodwin said at half time worked. That was McKenzie's best performance today, he was excellent. Besuijen, Hayes and Barron very good too and Ferguson was great in the second half after a poor half. Ramirez looked very annoyed at being subbed, but really only has himself to blame and Jenks did well in his place. Ramsay was subdued, and seemed to be stuck between going forward and defending - he was very conservative. Fantastic play from Hayes for the penalty, so direct, which is exactly what we needed. Lewis with some good saves too. Again, Bates and Gallagher aren't as good as Considine. We're making a mistake retaining that partnership.

Exactly. It's important to remember, too, that we're only halfway through our 50 year plan to bring league success back to pittodrie.

Could you imagine a manager getting five years to turn it around in today's game! Including a 15th and 8th (out of 18) position finish. Goodwin will be lucky to get to the summer holidays at current rate. We do really have to expect another poor year next season though. There's no way our recruitment guy is that good. Luckily Goodwin has said that he will have most of our recruitment done by pre-season though...

Keep him away from the Tory ministers.

Player of the year. Disagree. Should have been Ferguson. By quite a distance. Anyway, he's a good professional, well done loon.

A suspended McRorie is still a safer option at the back than Bates.

It's clearly based on potential rather than performance that's for sure. I'm not surprised that the writers have chosen him, I can see why. He's a beautiful player to watch, his gait, plays with his head up, great vision, great with both feet and always has time on the ball. They're likely imagining the player that he could be rather than the one he currently is. I'm guessing that he won't get player's player as they'll see the unfinished article who probably wasn't that difficult to play against. I remember his future teammate Andy Robertson getting schooled at pittodrie by an ageing Robson who likely told him he was shite. Probably a similar thing here.

I can't remember which game, he dives a lot, but there was one extremely dubious pen given as Ferguson threw himself into a leg. Borderline ones would be Ramsay's one against some cunts, and the Morelos handball against the scum. I'm sure there are others that opposition supporters would point to. We only win, lose or draw by a goal these days anyway, so I'm guessing any decision in our favour has earned points. To be honest, I'm fairly comfortable with most of the decisions that have gone for and against us this season, apart from the Ojo one that you mention. That was outrageous, however it's also a very unusual situation for the ref to deal with (Glass' initial reaction suggests he didn't know what to think until he was told what to think either). I couldn't care less about the porthoose and stryjek type ones that can be cleared up after the game. There was nothing in our play that brought on either incident, they just happened. The McGregor one is a game changer that occurred because of great play by us, but I'm still not completely convinced that hedges didn't just fanny it and move his leg towards the keeper (I think I'm wrong, but I can also see how the ref would have got it wrong). The real problem with the counting up of decisions against us that I have is that it's lead us to VAR, which I think is fucking awful for a game that makes most of its money from fans attending the matches. It'll ruin my enjoyment of games significantly, and it's perpetuated by the idea that every subjective decision has to be absolutely correct. I don't think VAR would have overturned the Ojo red card, probably the porteous one. Hardly worth ruining the spectator sport for.

Do we have to take away the jenks handball and the Ferguson pen dive, or do they go into the "rub of the green, nothing to see here" box?

That's a bit rude. Did he even ask how you've been?

It wouldn't have been a penalty, just a red. The ref gave the free kick, probably correctly, for Besuijen moving in front of the keeper which happened before the shove in the face. I don't think we'd have won had they gone down to four men such was the lack of anything remotely creative.

Stryjek banned for two games. I thought that if the ref dealt with it then it doesn't get overturned? The ref clearly saw the incident and thought it was just a yellow, what's the point in revisiting now?

That just means we're due one. I still find it staggering that we're persisting with Bates on his wrong foot in defence, it's criminal. The fact that him and Gallagher are going to be here next season (and we're getting rid of a better centre half than both of them) is fucking absurd. Surely Goodwin must have come to the conclusion that they're not good enough as a pairing so one of them will have to be on the bench next season and that results in a very expensive bench warmer.

Yep, that's just it, why create the atmosphere in the first place? That's McGhee-esque. That was a very unhappy team out there today. I mean, there's not really such a thing as a reset button is there? You've got guys who won't be there and guys that will. Why create the type of workplace where 50% don't want to be there? How long will it take the rest to recover/reset once the clear out has occurred? What does that bitterness do to the young guys like Barron and Ramsay? We're going to be relying on many of these guys next season whether Goodwin would like it or not. Gallagher and Bates go through the motions every single week. There is zero drive or passion from either of them. But they both will be here and likely playing every week. Ferguson can't be here for another year, it'll ruin him and he'll be a complete drain on the rest of the side (that's not a criticism, he deserves his chance elsewhere). Our team has very few signs of hope, and adding a layer of resentment does nobody any good.

Well done to the cove huns today in winning the league. An impressive feat indeed. Hopefully we'll avoid playing then next year outwith the cups.

Another poor performance in midfield today. He's a very strange one. He is a strong, athletic runner with a great work rate, but is he actually any good? I'm not convinced he's good enough at actual fitba to be playing centre midfield. He's not positionally good enough, or strong enough (especially in the air), to play centre half. I think we should deploy him at right back next season. Unless we're playing a back three. He'd be a fantastic holding midfielder against teams that are stronger than us, but we rarely need that. I don't mean this in a critical sense, but he reminds me of Ricky Foster when he was at his best for us. He'd mark Barry Ferguson completely out of a game then fail to complete a five yard pass. Just better at stopping others playing fitba than actually playing himself. I like McRorie, and most especially his attitude and work rate, but he's an absolute conundrum in terms of how to utilise.

Not really a scandal. I think most would agree that £5K per year for Ojo is very generous.

That was really, really bad. I didn't think we could get worse than the county game, but we've managed it. I haven't seen a performance that insipid since Paterson was here. An absolutely shocking performance by players and manager. The ref was obviously terrible too, but that can't be used as an excuse. Goodwin has taken a honking Glass side and ripped any remaining confidence from it in a ridiculously high risk strategy that relies on everyone else losing points. The players have left the building. How on earth you can watch that shite for over 70 minutes without a substitute is beyond imagination. Not only does it excuse the on field performance, but it tells the players on the bench that they're not good enough to take over from the 80% half arsed shite on the pitch. The fact that you've already told several of those subs that they're not good enough, in a tactical masterstroke, obviously doesn't help. To bring on Ramsay for five minutes is criminal. If he wasn't fit enough to risk for 45 minutes, then don't risk taking him on at all. If he was fit enough for anything more than a leg-stretch, then it's pure managerial incompetence not to have him on. I understand the need to give the manager a chance, and I absolutely will (I was, and am, a Goodwin fan). However, this current situation is entirely of his own making, and not the atmosphere an experienced manager should be creating - even temporarily - at a club. He's handled things terribly, and the players are downing tools as a result. He has to accept the criticism where it's due. He'll be bloody lucky if he can turn it around in time for the start of next season. Edit: I'd exclude Hayes from the effort criticism, he worked hard. Possibly Barron and McKenzie too, although both probably played within themselves.

Ref has been fucking honking, but another poor half again. If Ramsay at all fit, we need to get Ojo off now. McRorie and Ferguson been pish in midfield, we've had lots of crosses and those two need to be getting in the box to support Watkins. Watkins been okay, but very similar to when he played there for us previously - he's just not a goal threat on his own. Bates and Gallagher vastly inferior to Killie's defence of Taylor and Considine next season - just pish.