RicoS321

For clarity, at no point am I suggesting that we get rid of Robson, and nor have I ever suggested that, just in case that wasn't clear. My experience is having watched lots and lots of football in person (and played), and I know the difference between things not going to plan, and an incorrect plan, which is the key factor here. Robson's tactics are very clear, it's obvious what he's trying to do. It wasn't like Shinnie or McGrath were wandering out of position, they were doing as instructed. The evidence for this is in every game since Robson took over, he's doing the same thing. I think McGrath is a good player, and I'm certainly not blaming him. He is, however, an attacking midfielder who doesn't go box to box (he could probably play no 6 too, he's Kenny McLean essentially). I thought/was hoping I'd missed something (I've seen a decent amount of him at both St Mirren and Utd) when we first signed him and that maybe Robson had identified that he could replace Ramadani, but it's very clear that he's not that type of player. It's not a case of giving someone time here, your mistaken, it's simply identifying his attributes. We're not giving Polvara time in the right wing position, because it's clear that he'll never be a winger. Comparatively speaking, Miller became a defender overnight. He certainly didn't get a season in the Dons team to turn him from a striker, because that would be silly, it's not a great example. A better equivalent might be the attempt to turn Magennis into a fullback, which was ridiculous (although fun). Or trying to turn Nicky Maynard into a footballer. There is no real need to be experimenting during the season. Furthermore, Robson recognised the problem and changed it for Ross County at home, before quickly reverting to type. The problem with the experiment is that it's very clear that it's causing the dip in performance of Clarkson, who was the main benificiary of the Ramadani and Shinnie partnership last season (Duk too). Duk is causing his own dip as you say. You're correct that he's building something, and that it needs time, but what we're witnessing is formation dogma (he's not building a formation, he's building a squad). It's just stupid. If you don't have the correct players, then you tweak the formation to play to the strengths of the ones that are there until you can get the correct players in. You can change system during a season (as we've proved). There's nothing amazing about the setup he's trying that make it worthwhile, it's not entertaining and not innovative, it's only objectively good if it gets results, and I don't think we've got a single result this season playing with Sunday's setup - unless we include the point against Livi. I'm really hoping it's just stubborness rather than incompetence.

It's nothing to do with time, it's simply that he's trying to do exactly the same thing despite the fact that it's failing because the thing he's trying to do suits less players than it doesn't. Time doesn't make McGrath a hard working number 8, nor Clarkson. You say that we first need to see a style of play, but this is it. His style of play is centred around the number six taking the ball from the defence and going direct, with the two midfielders winning the second balls and quickly "recycling". He's been doing it since January. It hasn't worked this season because Ramadani isn't here. Our successes this season have all come when we've done something different (the RC home game had Barron and Shinnie sitting with one ahead - McGrath then Clarkson). We passed the ball through them and that had the knock on effect of bringing Duk into the game. So we already have the answer to who plays where if we're building through the midfield, it's just that isn't Robson's style. His style hasn't worked yet this season because the players don't have the correct attributes to do it (not something that can be taught in a season). He can either keep throwing away points until January by persisting until we get someone in that does have the correct attributes, or he can change it. I have been very quick to praise Robson when he gets it right, and I think it's correct to be critical when he reverts back to his previously failed plan. I find it bizarre that he didn't just stick with what worked. It's a weird form of dogma to have - an ideological belief in a particular formation. It's almost like he sees himself still on the pitch and the number six role would have been something he'd have thrived in with his passing ability, and so he's desperate to see it succeed. I recognise that's a fair bit of a leap on my part, but I struggle to think of any reason for such wilful blindness. Specifically yesterday, though, it was interesting to watch it in action. Shinnie was far too far forward and when the defenders were inevitably easily winning the long balls, they were getting distance on the headers that just sailed past Shinnie and McGrath. That meant they were both coming from behind the play to win back the ball and thus expending a lot more energy and often isolating Barron. Shinnie, especially, needs to be facing the way he's supposed to be heading and driving forward and the game just largely bypassed McGrath, who is just out of his depth in that role. There was basically a compounding of errors which, with a busy fixture list, was the last thing we needed. Edit: to add, it possibly isn't glaringly obvious watching it on TV, and it possibly isn't glaringly obvious watching it two feet from the edge of the park in the dugout (I've never understand why managers insist on such a pish view of a fitba game). I watch from the RDL, so it's very easy to see the layout of the team and what they are or aren't achieving with it. Those higher up with a side on view would also see it. I'm assuming that Robson has someone in the main stand relaying back to him their thoughts (like Austin MacPhee does for Scotland for example)?

No, not the actual shirt number! He plays Clarkson or Barron in a "number six" role (he's mentioned it a few times), essentially taking the ball from the defence and shifting it quickly to attack. It suits a creative passer, and requires good movement in the forward two (50% of them do this well). It also requires two hard working players in front picking up the loose direct balls that don't make it (50% of them do this well). It hasn't worked since Ramadani left, and isn't likely to. We're basically playing a 3-3-2-2 or 3-1-4-2.

You mean Robson doesn't? Once again today he insisted on the number six with two ahead. Whilst Barron is perfectly capable of playing that, McGrath can't do the forward role and, in turn, Shinnie then gets missed out too. Bringing out a positive in one player to the detriment of two others makes zero sense. As it hasn't every game this season. It's fucking ridiculous that he's persisting with it still. There were too many players off it today: Shinnie, McGrath, Devlin, Jensen, and especially Duk. The subs improved things but it was still very hit and hope and frenetic. I thought Clarkson and Polvara did alright when they came on. I don't think Robson's go-to 4-3-3 works at all and I'd like to see us try 4-2-3-1 with Duncan and perhaps Besuijen wide when we're chasing it. I feel sorry for Hayes who's being asked to play wing back, which is an unforgiving role if you're not as comfortable going beyond players as you used to be (not that Devlin, McKenzie or Duncan do much of that from those positions either).

It's been proven every time we've tried it this season that it doesn't work, regardless of who we're playing. Clarkson doesn't play well in a two and neither does McGrath. Clarkson sitting on his own would require two that cover the ground in front like Shinnie and Ramadani. Options are two from Shinnie, Polvara and Barron sitting with one of Clarkson in front. Or the flat four or 2-2 we can play against better teams. If we replace Ramadani in January then we can reconsider the two ahead of Clarkson or Barron. However, that was never about strength in attack, it was about protecting Clarkson so he could make the passes and going direct in the knowledge that we were winning every second ball high up the pitch. The wings are where we have the real option to play higher up the pitch or not though, and guys like McKenzie at home against Helsinki is not the right call.

Aye, in conditions like these you need folk that are piling in to the challenges. It's what the spectators come to see. Not Clarkson fairying around with his fancy passing.

Or have the manager understand that playing him alongside Clarkson in a two, or further forward, will require him to use twice as much energy, so don't do it.

Has pittodrie ever had a game cancelled due to rain? Storms maybe, and snow/ice obviously, but I can't remember a rain cancellation. Usually pretty good for drainage.

You mean like he did at Ibrox? It was a lot to ask to be as intense in two consecutive games, and when your manager doesn't recognise that and plays two number tens alongside you, it really doesn't help. He's been asked to do far too much this season already, and it was the same last night. Shinnie is meant to break the game up, be aggressive I'm the tackle, win the ball back and generally spur the team on. Someone else has to do the pretty stuff, as Barron did when he came on. If you're expecting more from Shinnie then it's no surprise that you don't get the hype. Next you'll be questioning the fuss around Devlin, despite the fact that he's not completed a single seventy yard cross field pass or even connected with a bicycle kick.

That was honking tonight. Looked very tired and the game was crying out for subs (multiple, early). They dominated for about twenty minutes before they got their goal. Robson is so frustrating. There was simply no need to be playing Clarkson in that two behind McGrath, he's wasted there, as evidenced every single time it's been tried (fine as part of a four in a 5-4-1 before anyone mentions). Barron didn't play a huge role against the Hun, so get him in and let McGrath (best I've seen him tonight probably) and Clarkson be interchangeable for the ten role. It's criminal that he can't see it. Ironically, as soon as we took Barron on we preceded to push both Shinnie and McGrath forward and let Barron play the number six role that Clarkson thrives in. Duk was terrible tonight and I can't believe he lasted ninety minutes. Lazy, reactive football and offering zero outlet whatsoever. Probably one of his worst games for us and should have been hooked at the same time as Clarkson. Throwing himself to the ground constantly wore thin about six months ago. He takes so much from the team when he's not on it just by being there - his unpredictability is more of a hindrance for his teammates than it is the opposition. Of course, the fans will see the times that he tanks back to make a challenge (usually quite reckless and usually a result of him losing the ball) and think that he's putting in a shift, but then the next three time he just lets the player go, so the others have to have a constant eye on him. It's clear when he's off it, so just remove in and keep him fresh for the weekend game. Miovski and McGrath probably the two that performed well tonight and Barron when he came on. Fantastic finish from Miovski after a lovely flick on from their player (the only way we were scoring).

I got to the pub in nae time. Through denburn, avoided market street which was horrendous for some reason.

Just heading off shortly. Those Finnish lads won't know what's hit them in these conditions.

Tims lose in Europe again. 95th minute goal too. Excellent.

John's loon?

No Elliott Anderson? Disappointing.

I think that there are still question marks over his ability to play wing back - in a three - against opposition that sit in. However, he's more than proved that he's good enough in a squad to work as left back in a four or five, and he can even provide cover for Jensen if/when he's unavailable. That's absolutely invaluable over the course of a season, and I'd expect to see him get at least 20 games by the end of it. His limitations are clear, as are his strengths, so it should be easy to work around those. It's clear that Polvara also has squad stengths too that we can make something of. Keeping things simple and playing to the players' strengths is key for us with the volume of games we've got, and I think Robson is perhaps beginning to see that. Thursday will be what it is, the squad test will be the subsequent stuffy games against lower opposition in the league that come after. Gartenmann coming in has really taken the guesswork out of the defensive setup, and - dare I say it - Morris getting injured has been a blessing in that we're not dicking about trying to shoehorn him in unnecessarily (I'm sure he can play a role when he returns, it's just that I felt that Robson was trying to play him into being a footballer).

I was just being facetious. I see the Scales thing as a failure on our part. Right from the minute he joined in fact. We got rid of Considine on the promise of a signing that all the fans would be excited about, and we got a rough-around-the-edges loanee from the Tims. We had an entire window to iron out a deal with them that would ensure we had an agreement to buy in place, but we didn't get one and we didn't walk away. Instead, we played a transformational role in his development before being dicked around for another window. Much as I despise the Huns, and us getting Huns, the loan of McRorie with pre-agreed fee was a significantly better way to do business - and probably the only acceptable way to business with a rival in our league. With Scales doing well, and Christie before him, it's probably now seen as a viable route for up and coming young Celtic players. I'm not convinced that's a good thing for us.

Fantastic. I don't remember the last time we got a manager fired (that wasn't our own).

Robson for king.

Yep, he's much better in the two than Clarkson.

I disagree with this

Hopefully Anthony Stewart left him the recipe for nailing a Hun in the last minute of the ninety. It'd have been so perfect had the cheating SFA not insisted on extra time instead of the replay Stewart had planned for when he went careering into the challenge. That won't be an issue in a league match, and there's a strong chance that Wright will have taken to the field by that point too.

As agreed, could we keep all league cup correspondence to one thread. Can't go glory hunting with separate threads just because we made it to a quarter final.

Shite time, as always. Oh well.

Hibs. Take that like.