LC - Tims v Dons (2nd November)

[OrlandoDon]

Reality check today. We’ve made mistakes this season and not been punished. Punished for what we did wrong today and the one chance we get we miss. Ruthless Celtic and a good lesson for the players that we can get much better.

[manc_don]

well, that was definitely not worth the wake up for. Been a shite weekend of football for me! Hungover and having to watch that pish.

A hard lesson, but one we were going to be taught at some point. Lots of progress has been made and can’t let this derail the season.

[Jute]

6-0 and didn’t even flatter the cunts. Roasted from minute one. Massive gap in squad quality shown. Off the bench our lack of real quality was shown. 

[OrlandoDon]

We were found out today but we are still best of the rest. Still think duk and morris are bench players, duk especially drove me nuts today. Dive dive dive and complain, did nothing else. 
We were fatigued, pretty clear, they brought in six who had rested all week. Not much you can do there.
not a fan of our zonal defending, all season we’ve given chances from set plays because we are not tight enough. Easy first goal for them today against a player we should definitely be locking up and preventing getting a header.

would like us to get back to the topi clarkson McGrath midfield three, we’re a better team with three players who are technical. saying that I’d still play topi ahead of Morris but maybe inclined to start Vinny over McGrath, he’s been off of late, besides the Celtic assist.
we needed a week to recover from the rangers game, this is what it is. If anything it’s ‘only’ the cup. Champions league is a real possibility, got to get back on it against Dundee and build momentum again as we have more away than home games coming up.

[OrlandoDon]

Next 5 - Dundee at home, away to st mirren, hibs, hearts, then Celtic at home.

while today hurts and 6 is brutal, beating Celtic is hard. No shame on losing to them. The next 4 and maintaining/stretching the lead over 3rd is huge before we see them again.

rangers are home to hearts, united, away to st Johnstone, home to killie, then in dingwall. As pish as they are, they are next 3 of 4 at home and I’d expect 12-15 points in those 5. We are 3 of 4 away before Celtic at home, tough run.

Big response needed to the month ahead.

[redordead]

Bottle crashed. Simple as that. 

Mitov should come for the first and causes mayhem for the second. His indecision is becoming an issue for me. 

Topi offered nothing again and could do with some bench time. We were weak in the tackle all game and were taught a lesson in movement and closing down. 

Celtic were ruthless but we made it easy. 

In 46 years I've never left any game early but tonight I did . Gutter!!

[Panda]

Well, they say you learn more from a defeat than a win.

We didn't zip the ball around the pitch as we normally do. I don't even think tiredness was the issue, we just didn't pass it well enough, and picked up some silly early bookings which got into the players heads. 

Even at 0-0, it was the most animated I've seen Thelin, looked like he was trying to tell them to lift the tempo as it was so pedestrian.

I don't really think there was much Thelin could do tactically as it was individual errors and poor performances all over the park. Against Celtic in Glasgow you're not getting away with that.

Celtic didn't even play particularly well, every shot on target seemed to hit the back of the net.

Edited November 2 by Panda

[OrlandoDon]

14 minutes ago, Panda said:

Well, they say you learn more from a defeat than a win.

We didn't zip the ball around the pitch as we normally do. I don't even think tiredness was the issue, we just didn't pass it well enough, and picked up some silly early bookings which got into the players heads. 

Even at 0-0, it was the most animated I've seen Thelin, looked like he was trying to tell them to lift the tempo as it was so pedestrian.

I don't really think there was much Thelin could do tactically as it was individual errors and poor performances all over the park. Against Celtic in Glasgow you're not getting away with that.

Celtic didn't even play particularly well, every shot on target seemed to hit the back of the net.

They were clinical for sure, did mitov even make a save today? Think they scored every shot.

we sat back, intentionally or not, and the game was all Celtic from the start. I don’t recall it being that bad two weeks ago. We were never on the front foot and I’m sure that was jimmy’s issue. Shit first goal from shit zonal marking, shit second goal from mistakes. After that I really stopped paying attention as it was clear at that point we didn’t have it today.
We were flat and I think it’s fair to say we needed a week to recover from the rangers game. We don’t have the depth Celtic do to replace 6 that would make us better.

 

[tom_widdows]

Id like to think this as a 1970s 'Brian Clough' revelation moment. Celtic and Rodgers become Thelin's 'white whale'

Edited November 2 by tom_widdows

[Panda]

4 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

They were clinical for sure, did mitov even make a save today? Think they scored every shot.

They had eight shots on target and scored six of them. Their first five shots on target all went in.

4 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

We were flat and I think it’s fair to say we needed a week to recover from the rangers game. We don’t have the depth Celtic do to replace 6 that would make us better.

 

Again though, I don't think Wednesday was an issue. For 25 minutes the game was a non-event, Celtic looked as flat as we did.

But you blink and suddenly it's 3-0.

Like I said previously, I don't think tactically we'd got it that wrong. It's fine saying in hindsight maybe Palaversa should have made it a midfield three to make it more compact, but you could see the plan was for McGrath to press and for Aberdeen to force Celtic into mistakes, which we actually did, but we never took advantage because inevitably our passing was poor and we couldn't get the front four properly into the game.

Celtic just had that bit more quality that made the difference. When they made a mistake we didn't make them pay. When we made a mistake, they cut us open.

Edited November 3 by Panda

[STFU_Donny]

5 hours ago, redordead said:

Bottle crashed. Simple as that. 

Have to disagree. Nothing to do with bottle. How can you even come to that conclusion after some of our performances and fight backs this season? This team has plenty of character and bottle.

This was a case of a team who gave everything, physically and mentally, midweek vs r*ngers not being 100% ready to go again a few days later. And if you’ve got any hope of beating celtic in Glasgow then you need to be 100% and they need a dip in form.

Celtic had a relatively easy game midweek coupled with the luxury of resting players and having other first team regulars returning from injury. Also add in the revenge factor of us having the audacity to get a draw with them a few weeks ago and they were always going to be in the mood for dishing out a schooling.

[RicoS321]

6 hours ago, Panda said:

They had eight shots on target and scored six of them. Their first five shots on target all went in.

Again though, I don't think Wednesday was an issue. For 25 minutes the game was a non-event, Celtic looked as flat as we did.

But you blink and suddenly it's 3-0.

Like I said previously, I don't think tactically we'd got it that wrong. It's fine saying in hindsight maybe Palaversa should have made it a midfield three to make it more compact, but you could see the plan was for McGrath to press and for Aberdeen to force Celtic into mistakes, which we actually did, but we never took advantage because inevitably our passing was poor and we couldn't get the front four properly into the game.

Celtic just had that bit more quality that made the difference. When they made a mistake we didn't make them pay. When we made a mistake, they cut us open.

Yep, I think that's about right. Tactically we were probably okay, but its implementation wasn't there. Our system relies on the press working, and being in perfect unison among the front three and one of the sitting midfielders. We were regularly off that beat, and it wasn't just the goals, but the bookings we picked up when caught too. Duk, Devlin, MacKenzie, Rubezic and Nilsen (possibly Sokler too) all lacked the sharpness required from early in the game. I don't think it was a case of heads going down, they were definitely a little off the pace. Perhaps having Palaversa starting would have mitigated some of the jadedness, but I think we were getting done regardless, they were on top form.

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Well, that was gutting. Our impressive run was always going to come to an end, but in that manner? That's where my disappointment lies.

 

Having said that, this group have just kept going and going since the start of the Season, we've had some big performances and big results, they are still learning, we shouldn't lose sight of that, and like I said in my last post, I think when he brings all of his own players in, players that will improve us in particular to how Thelin wants us to play, then I have no doubt we will be just fine and then some. 

 

I liked how he immediately shut down the tiredness talk, despite it quite clearly being the case last night, he said that is where he wants us, 3 games a week! Celtic had the luxury of resting half of their 11 midweek, literally. We started with the same 11 that put in a shift and won midweek, a lot of our passes and tracking etc... were well off the pace last night, you could just see it. They were knackered. 

 

Need to take this on the chin, learn from it, use it and fester it all into Dundee on Saturday and continue this excellent domestic start. Maybe Nesbit will be back, Dante Polvara allegedly isn't far away, Gueye still to come back, I remain fairly confident and optimistic for the remainder of the Season. 

[BigAl]

19 minutes ago, KennyFuckinPowers said:

Well, that was gutting. Our impressive run was always going to come to an end, but in that manner? That's where my disappointment lies.

 

Having said that, this group have just kept going and going since the start of the Season, we've had some big performances and big results, they are still learning, we shouldn't lose sight of that, and like I said in my last post, I think when he brings all of his own players in, players that will improve us in particular to how Thelin wants us to play, then I have no doubt we will be just fine and then some. 

 

I liked how he immediately shut down the tiredness talk, despite it quite clearly being the case last night, he said that is where he wants us, 3 games a week! Celtic had the luxury of resting half of their 11 midweek, literally. We started with the same 11 that put in a shift and won midweek, a lot of our passes and tracking etc... were well off the pace last night, you could just see it. They were knackered. 

 

Need to take this on the chin, learn from it, use it and fester it all into Dundee on Saturday and continue this excellent domestic start. Maybe Nesbit will be back, Dante Polvara allegedly isn't far away, Gueye still to come back, I remain fairly confident and optimistic for the remainder of the Season. 

Nothing to add to that 

[Elgindon]

25 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Nothing to add to that 

Indeed,Coulda done without the scale of the defeat, but confident that Thelins aware of the issues that need addressed, and will get us closer to Celtic. ...And welcome back KFP 

[RicoS321]

5 minutes ago, KennyFuckinPowers said:

Well, that was gutting. Our impressive run was always going to come to an end, but in that manner? That's where my disappointment lies.

 

Having said that, this group have just kept going and going since the start of the Season, we've had some big performances and big results, they are still learning, we shouldn't lose sight of that, and like I said in my last post, I think when he brings all of his own players in, players that will improve us in particular to how Thelin wants us to play, then I have no doubt we will be just fine and then some. 

 

I liked how he immediately shut down the tiredness talk, despite it quite clearly being the case last night, he said that is where he wants us, 3 games a week! Celtic had the luxury of resting half of their 11 midweek, literally. We started with the same 11 that put in a shift and won midweek, a lot of our passes and tracking etc... were well off the pace last night, you could just see it. They were knackered. 

 

Need to take this on the chin, learn from it, use it and fester it all into Dundee on Saturday and continue this excellent domestic start. Maybe Nesbit will be back, Dante Polvara allegedly isn't far away, Gueye still to come back, I remain fairly confident and optimistic for the remainder of the Season. 

I don't think that Thelin will be bringing in his own players though. Maybe one or two, but I think the recruitment situation is fairly settled. He'll be buying for his system, of course, but actually the guys that are here seem to fit remarkably well into it already. The question of depth is an interesting one, because being in a position to be able to rest 5 or 6 players only really comes when you've got the additional European fixtures. Otherwise, you've got players sitting out whole fortnights. Personally, I think we've got the squad size just about perfect for the campaign, but maybe quality can improve in the backup positions. It's going to be a difficult balance to keep everyone happy though. Especially beyond January when there isn't generally a massive fixture backlog. As you mention, Gueye and Polvara returning will be good for us.

[redordead]

9 hours ago, STFU_Donny said:

Have to disagree. Nothing to do with bottle. How can you even come to that conclusion after some of our performances and fight backs this season? This team has plenty of character and bottle.

This was a case of a team who gave everything, physically and mentally, midweek vs r*ngers not being 100% ready to go again a few days later. And if you’ve got any hope of beating celtic in Glasgow then you need to be 100% and they need a dip in form.

Celtic had a relatively easy game midweek coupled with the luxury of resting players and having other first team regulars returning from injury. Also add in the revenge factor of us having the audacity to get a draw with them a few weeks ago and they were always going to be in the mood for dishing out a schooling.

The team had been fantastic but make no mistake the occasion got to them. It was panic stations at the back for most of that game.

 

[OrlandoDon]

I blame STFU_Donny. Sold me his northern light top, got it this week. Gorgeous. The shirt, not Donny. Decided not to wear it for the rangers game but I made my debut with it yesterday. I feel had he not sold me it we’d have won yesterday.

it wasn’t bottle yesterday. Celtic were on and once they scored went for the kill. They punished every error we made. We were flat and regardless of what jimmy said, Wednesday was a factor. They were fresh and sharp, we were not. Our mistakes were punished, simple as that, then you don’t want to push up and press too much when you are getting smashed. I did think at the time bookings were a factor too, especially ruby after 15 mins, we weren’t so feisty after that. I think it’s as simple as that. Wouldn’t say it was bottle.

dont hear anyone over reacting, just got to get back on it for Dundee. Like that jimmy didn’t blame, plus like his comments about wanting to be in Europe and playing three games weekly.

re squad and signings, do think we need a 9. Id say Celtic score the one chance sokler missed yesterday. We need a sharp goal scorer that scares the shit out defenders. Think we had that in bojan. We have confidence players, and players on form. Still feel we upgrade and add depth with a right back, left and right mid, and a forward, most likely next summer. Our depth certainly isn’t as strong, even rangers are deeper as pish as they are, and I don’t see duk, morris, Gueye, Milne, Ambrose, mcgarry, and Macdonald as good enough to regularly start. Celtic brought in six good enough. Very hard to keep everyone happy in these situations.

[STFU_Donny]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

I blame STFU_Donny. Sold me his northern light top, got it this week. Gorgeous. The shirt, not Donny. Decided not to wear it for the rangers game but I made my debut with it yesterday. I feel had he not sold me it we’d have won yesterday.

Here was me thinking you were wearing it on Wednesday bringing us luck! 

[tlg1903]

If anyone knows of any further NL tops available i would defo be interested.

Overall i thought we were doing fairly well in terms of holding them at arms length until they scored but the quickfire double after that was the deathstroke, it's hard to blame heads for going down after that.  Lets also not underestimate celtics desire to show their dominance and it was a perfect opportunity to do so.  They were well rested and that's the biggest pitch in the country whereas we have played 2 high intensity games in 6 days with the same starting line up.  For me fatigue caught up with the squad big time yesterday and we were ruthlessly punished.   I do also wonder if the emotional hangover from wednesday night played a part. 

Obviously the scoreline creates excellent hyperboly for anyone looking to criticise but I'm pretty confident this is nothing more than a slightly embarassing blip.  That the defence is not where it needs to be is not news, we saw this by how hearts took the piss out of us until they went a man down and we remain exactly what we were pre match yesterday.  A work in progress that's still in it's early stages so my advice would be to not get too down about yesterday.  We have still had the best ever start to a domestic campaign for 121 years and yet there is still plenty of scope for this team to improve in all areas.  I would have snapped your hand off if you offered me a start like this the day that Thelin walked through the door even if you did tell me it would end with a 6-0 scudding from the tims in the league cup..... Especially given it's the LC.  It would have been nice to get the final but I do feel we have bigger fish to fry this season and the only way yesterday affects that is if we let it. 

Rico is spot on re squad size IMO, most of our players are getting game time (mcgarry and macdonald seem to be the only stand out  exceptions in my head) which never hurts for squad harmony.   The only position I feel we actively need to bring somone in for is a backup rb, anyone else comes in one will need to go out.  Also as Rico points out we don't have big fixture congestion to worry about in the second half of the season, it's actually only december/1st week of jan that will really test our depth.  After that we are back to 4 games a month really so bar  a rb (and I think a loan would be prudent there) I don't think we need any extra bodies in and it would probably be better to keep our powder dry for the summer. 

[OrlandoDon]

Find it interesting people think RB is a priority. Probably a curse but devlin is durable and fit. Milne is capable short term. Perhaps polvara if we are desperate. Why RB and not LB? Devlin signed a new contract, no clue the situation with Mackenzie, and Milne appears to be a more capable back up than mcgarry. I’m assuming Jensen will be sold in the summer as he’s not a regular and that’s what he wants, hence he’s presently on loan.

we don’t have a regular scoring 9 but we are creating chances. I think that should be a January priority. Obviously no panic buy, got to be capable, available, and affordable. I’d also send Ambrose out on loan. I like sokler but he misses more than he should. I am not overly impressed with nisbet to date. Still looks heavy and sluggish. Unless we are considering nisbet as a permanent buy I don’t know if I’d keep him for the season if there’s a better option in January.

[Panda]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

Why RB and not LB?

We have James McGarry as a back-up. 

Don't think the issue is we need someone to replace Devlin, more that is he was to be injured we have no-one to fill in.

Our priority in January is a charter plane for the Champions League. We don't need any players... actually Liam Scales. Bring him home.

[KennyFuckinPowers]

5 hours ago, Elgindon said:

Indeed,Coulda done without the scale of the defeat, but confident that Thelins aware of the issues that need addressed, and will get us closer to Celtic. ...And welcome back KFP 

Hope everything is well mate 

[KennyFuckinPowers]

5 minutes ago, Panda said:

We have James McGarry as a back-up. 

Don't think the issue is we need someone to replace Devlin, more that is he was to be injured we have no-one to fill in.

Our priority in January is a charter plane for the Champions League. We don't need any players... actually Liam Scales. Bring him home.

I am starting to wonder if everything is okay with McGarry. By all accounts, he looked fairly sharp and good in the minutes he played in the League Cup group stage games, but he's been limited to absolutely nothing since then ( I think ) 

 

I know that he and the good lady just had a new born as he signed with us, I wonder if he's struggling to adapt and settle, I assume his missus is over here with him, maybe just missing their parents and vice versa due to said new born. 

[OrlandoDon]

13 minutes ago, Panda said:

We have James McGarry as a back-up. 

Don't think the issue is we need someone to replace Devlin, more that is he was to be injured we have no-one to fill in.

Our priority in January is a charter plane for the Champions League. We don't need any players... actually Liam Scales. Bring him home.

We have Milne as back up who plays more than mcgarry. No? I don’t think it’s milne’s best position, or natural position, but it appears he’s trusted more to fill in than mcgarry yet people seem to say RB is priority??