SC Dons vs Queen’s Park 08/03/2025

[OrlandoDon]

Let’s not dick around. Get the 4th and truly end it. 3-1 gives them encouragement.

hope polvara gets a decent run in the second half.

[BigAl]

Nisbet is a player reborn.

We should enjoy his form while we can, as there is every probability that the better he does, the less likely we are to keep him beyond the end of this season.

[wee toon red]

36 minutes ago, Panda said:

We really should have made our offer to Millwall for Nisbet when he was gash. Millwall paid Hibs £2m for him, but with only a year left on his contract I think a deal can certainly be done. His best work isn't actually his goal scoring; he actually links that front line so well. Thelin has found his best position playing him almost as a 10.

Keskinen looking so much better on the left. Morris doing okay but as ever he struggles with a final ball. Clarkson looking very good. Shinnie as ever is a wonderful footballer and human being.

In general I tend to agree with you about Morris and it’s possible a championship team is his level, but he’s been really dangerous so far today and has two quality assists to his name.

Edited Saturday at 13:48 by wee toon red

[OrlandoDon]

Don’t know why we give Ambrose minutes. Nobody has seen anything to suggest he’s near good enough.

[OxfordDon]

1 minute ago, OrlandoDon said:

Don’t know why we give Ambrose minutes. Nobody has seen anything to suggest he’s near good enough.

Thought it was a very magnanimous gesture by us, bringing on three strikers would just seem like bad sportsmanship at this point so we've let QP have one of ours.

[OrlandoDon]

Incredibly frustrating watching Ambrose up top. Nisbet and dabbagh look sharp and lively, Ambrose looks lethargic and slow. He’s just not a footballer ffs. we have nothing up top now and it affects our play. Would have been nice to kick on but a sloppy goal lost and the last 25 is a shitty ending to a great result.

[OrlandoDon]

Good shift from Morris but as said, it’s against a championship team. Think it’s relative.

[Panda]

Really, really poor from Thelin subbing off Morris.

[wee toon red]

3 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Incredibly frustrating watching Ambrose up top. Nisbet and dabbagh look sharp and lively, Ambrose looks lethargic and slow. He’s just not a footballer ffs. we have nothing up top now and it affects our play. Would have been nice to kick on but a sloppy goal lost and the last 25 is a shitty ending to a great result.

That’s a very pessimistic view of things. There’s nothing particular “shitty” about the whole day and even if there was, Fletcher Boyd getting half an hour and Jack Milne coming on provide plenty interest.

[OrlandoDon]

6 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

That’s a very pessimistic view of things. There’s nothing particular “shitty” about the whole day and even if there was, Fletcher Boyd getting half an hour and Jack Milne coming on provide plenty interest.

Absolutely. But at the same time we’re not a team on a strong run and let’s kick on. 5 or 6 and a dabbagh hat trick, nisbet grabbing another etc does more than giving Ambrose a jog out there. Dabbagh and nisbet are in our plans and let them kick on, get sharper etc, playing Ambrose does nothing for us.

It’s great seeing Milne polvara and Boyd, but to me letting a game fizzle out, losing the clean sheet etc takes the shine off the display. Just being greedy but I think we could have approached things a little differently.

[tlg1903]

I actually thought Ambrose looked alright when he came on.  

[DantheDon]

I think the mistake is making a triple change all in one go when you’re so dominant. It’s fine if you’re not doing great but when you are playing as-well as we were it’s bound to disrupt the flow of the team. I think guys like Boyd getting minutes is great but if you have Nisbet in front of him it will give him a bit more to show what he can actually do. 

[Panda]

26 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Good shift from Morris but as said, it’s against a championship team. Think it’s relative.

Come on min, he earned his start and he's earned his start in the next league game.

He did everything but score (which I won't forget about in a hurry).

12 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Absolutely. But at the same time we’re not a team on a strong run and let’s kick on. 5 or 6 and a dabbagh hat trick, nisbet grabbing another etc does more than giving Ambrose a jog out there. Dabbagh and nisbet are in our plans and let them kick on, get sharper etc, playing Ambrose does nothing for us.

We were 4-0 up and have some massive games coming up. 

Of course you take them off, avoid injuries or silly bookings, and let the fringe players have a dance.

I don't think not winning 6-0 will have affected the confidence too much.

9 minutes ago, tlg1903 said:

I actually thought Ambrose looked alright when he came on.  

Thought he did okay too.

Yeah he's no-where near starting a game for us, but like I said above, 4-0 up against a lower league team is when you throw him on, and rest the guys you're relying on next week.

[OrlandoDon]

9 minutes ago, DantheDon said:

I think the mistake is making a triple change all in one go when you’re so dominant. It’s fine if you’re not doing great but when you are playing as-well as we were it’s bound to disrupt the flow of the team. I think guys like Boyd getting minutes is great but if you have Nisbet in front of him it will give him a bit more to show what he can actually do. 

Yes but there’s more to it. We made 3 changes, stuck gueye out wide, added a 10, and our 9 cannot link. It’s not just fresh legs, it totally changes the way we play, and we’re not a team who is playing consistently to a rhythm. It became a training game for 30 mins which, while beneficial for some, to me could have been more effectively used.

[OrlandoDon]

I get it, I know it’s a great win in a banana skin game, first 15 mins we looked very shaky/nervous, and the two quick goals really changes the game. It’s easy to say at 4-0 rest players, avoid injury, bring in the likes of Milne and polvara, but I think the last 30 could have been more effectively used for the benefit of team improvement, not simply to give guys minutes and avoid injury. Delighted to be in the semis.

ill give Morris credit, it’s probably the first start he’s played well, he worked hard, looks more physical etc, but it’s still a level below and what he’s expected to do on a weekly basis….. he hasn’t done that to date. He’s let us down on pretty much every start and he’s not a new player. Been given plenty of opportunity.

what did Ambrose do well? He looks slow and lethargic, gave away a few fouls, and chases the game in slow motion. He had one good layoff and one good header, other than that I don’t recall anything positive. He’s not making great runs, no creative passes, didn’t create a chance for himself or others. Nisbet did all of that today. As our 9 he did more negative than positive in the time he played and that has a negative impact on the game and how we play.

[Panda]

Just a reminder we won 4-1 and are into the Scottish Cup semi-final.

You wouldn't know it by reading this thread

[RicoS321]

3 minutes ago, Panda said:

Just a reminder we won 4-1 and are into the Scottish Cup semi-final.

You wouldn't know it by reading this thread

@OrlandoDon is right though, bringing on Ambrose does ruin a nice day out, the guy is honking. He's not a young lad coming through, he's had his chance and proven he's a terrible footballer/competition winner. As mentioned earlier in the thread, at least give Boyd ten minutes alongside an in form Nisbet to help walk him through the game. Gueye was a fun addition at least, but Ambrose shouldn't be playing professional football. 

That aside, a great performance against a poor side. Clarkson again was great, Knoester, Shinnie and Nisbet too. Not convinced Dabbagh is any better than Sokler, but worked hard and two good goals after a fresh-airer. Boyd doesn't look ready for first team action. Polvara looked decent (and in response to your earlier post OD, we have to have an attacking number ten and just leave Polvara alongside one of the other midfielders), Milne was fine and Gueye was Gueye. Great win and through to another semi.

[OrlandoDon]

8 minutes ago, Panda said:

Just a reminder we won 4-1 and are into the Scottish Cup semi-final.

You wouldn't know it by reading this thread

I’m the only my one really complaining. And I acknowledged the positives. I also think we played well for 45 mins today, first 15 we were shaky and nervous which I understand. Last 30 JT could have utilized much more effectively. I think that’s valid.

[Panda]

7 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

@OrlandoDon is right though, bringing on Ambrose does ruin a nice day out, the guy is honking.

But the game was won. It was about resting the starters. There wasn't any other forwards on the bench (Gueye appeared to play on the left when he came on, something which a few folk on here had been asking for) so the only option was to let Ambrose have a wee run out, and Boyd got a chance too. If Sokler was fit he would have got the minutes.

7 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Milne was fine 

Thought he made quite a few errors, and if Tobers is injured next week I fully expect Dorrington to keep his place ahead of him.

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

But the game was won. It was about resting the starters.

Agree the game was won but do not agree at all about resting the starters he did, we had 30 mins to continue to work and improve, and we need that given the last 3-4 months. Nisbet finally looks fit, he’s not played a lot this season, getting him 80 mins or so of solid running and another goal or two helps the boy. He’s gaining in confidence, let him play. Same with dabbagh, needs minutes and match sharpness, and to develop chemistry with nisbet. These two will play a major part in our remaining games, today could have helped them even more, while giving Ambrose minutes does absolutely nothing for us. I do not think queens were going to kill them.

Thought JT got it right with Clarkson, he needed the run and the minutes and played well. Likewise Morris, palaversa too. Players can get injured in training, happened to sivert, resting them in games is fair enough, but it doesn’t mean they don’t get injured tomorrow.

i agree giving polvara a run as he’ll probably have a part to play this season too. Same with jack milne. While it’s good for Boyd to get the minutes, I don’t see him being a factor in our season and given how poor we’ve been in recent months, I felt today in the second half we could have done more than we did rather than resting certain players and having the game fizzle out.

Just my opinion. I’m an ‘A’ licensed coach and I’ve coached a ton for 30 years, not professionally I’ll add, but a full game matters, especially given the season we’ve had. Don’t think we got the full benefit today, game time is like gold, so important, and we didn’t fully utilize the opportunity we had today. Repeating myself I know, I was just surprised and disappointed how the last 30 was coached.

Probably the first time I’ve questioned JT, and I’m a fan, great to be in the semis.

 

Edited Sunday at 00:32 by OrlandoDon

[OrlandoDon]

And good to keep beating the dead horse, we’ve been really poor attacking and creating for much of the last 4 months, giving another 20-30 mins with topi dabbagh nisbet and morris lively and confident in competitive action is worth something.

[Panda]

29 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

And good to keep beating the dead horse, we’ve been really poor attacking and creating for much of the last 4 months, giving another 20-30 mins with topi dabbagh nisbet and morris lively and confident in competitive action is worth something.

The same Morris you didn't want to see start? Now you're saying it was a mistake to take him off?

Thelin has spoken previously about how he wants us to play at a high pace, and that it's difficult to do it for 90 minutes week after week. We had Devlin, Shinnie, Nilsen and probably Mackenzie all suffer from being overplayed this season.

The job was done, we don't have the squad to keep playing guys we're going to rely on for the next two months for another 30 minutes when we don't need to. We might not get that same luxury again of being 4-0 up with an hour played. You may not rate Ambrose, but if Sokler isn't fit and Dabbagh breaks down in training next week, then we might need him for 30 minutes off the bench against St Johnstone. 

Thelin did the same as any competent manager would. 

[OrlandoDon]

23 minutes ago, Panda said:

The same Morris you didn't want to see start? Now you're saying it was a mistake to take him off?

Thelin has spoken previously about how he wants us to play at a high pace, and that it's difficult to do it for 90 minutes week after week. We had Devlin, Shinnie, Nilsen and probably Mackenzie all suffer from being overplayed this season.

The job was done, we don't have the squad to keep playing guys we're going to rely on for the next two months for another 30 minutes when we don't need to. We might not get that same luxury again of being 4-0 up with an hour played. You may not rate Ambrose, but if Sokler isn't fit and Dabbagh breaks down in training next week, then we might need him for 30 minutes off the bench against St Johnstone. 

Thelin did the same as any competent manager would. 

Under normal circumstances I’d agree with you, very normal for thelin to do what he did. But our form for 4 months has been awful. We went a number of games without scoring, and really struggle to create chances.  Yes the job was done, but after a shaky start it began clicking today, why not milk it. We’ve not had this luxury, take advantage of the situation. Develop it, coach it, work on combinations and plays in a competitive environment. It’s been painful the last few months, let the team run, and maybe run rampant. There’s a benefit to taking advantage of a positive situation and scoring 6 or 7, would have had everyone buzzing even more and have been a real statement. Instead we slow down and lost the last 30 mins 1-0. Great to win 4-1 but as I’ve repeatedly said, we could have gotten more from the last 30.

I’d understand if we went like for like and continued to play the way we did, develop what he’s asking us to do and what we need to improve. But the last 30 didn’t make a lot of sense to me other than call it a day after an hour and give squad players a run. Had we been a team on form I’d be good with that, but we’re not.
Much like the teams who squad rotate when not necessary because it’s fashionable and what the top teams do, we backed off when I don’t think we’re good or consistent enough not to fully utilize the last 30.

RE Morris, i definitely didn’t want him starting but he did and had a good game. Two assists for a confidence player, leave him out there to enjoy himself and get another assist, maybe a goal. Coach him, build him up, he doesn’t need the rest. Give him the opportunity to work with nisbet and dabbagh and get better. 
 

as for your Ambrose comment, it would take for gueye nisbet and dabbagh all to get injured for Ambrose to see the field next week. Won’t happen. I would also not be surprised if we saw topi at 9 before Ambrose in an important game. Good chance with sokler coming back Ambrose doesn’t even make the match squad next week. He’s not a player worth giving minutes.

Edited Sunday at 02:11 by OrlandoDon

[Panda]

2 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

 

RE Morris, i definitely didn’t want him starting but he did and had a good game. Two assists for a confidence player, leave him out there to enjoy himself and get another assist, maybe a goal. Coach him, build him up, he doesn’t need the rest. Give him the opportunity to work with nisbet and dabbagh and get better. 

See, this is the inconsistency. You've gone from saying Morris shouldn't start to Morris shouldn't have come off. So you've accepted Thelin giving him more minutes than usual was good and beneficial to him and the team.

You're then saying Nisbet and Dabbagh should have stayed on, but  @RicoS321is saying why didn't Boyd play with Nisbet. So someone would be unhappy here. 

You were one of the ones saying Dabbagh - despite his goals - didn't play well, so why should he stay on? Does he even have the fitness to play longer yet? Likewise, Nisbet hasn't had much luck with injuries, we've got to be careful not to push him especially when you see his importance at the moment. Ambrose actually did okay when he came on, that's the benefits of giving a guy minutes, and we might need him at some point over the next two months.

Others wanted Gueye to play on the left, which they got. Others say Topi should have stayed on.

Essentially, Thelin was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

Personally, I think it was a very good day, and Ambrose, Gueye, Boyd, Milne and, to a lesser extent, Polvara all getting a decent run out was a bonus.

[OrlandoDon]

Coaches have to coach in the moment, adapt in real time. While you can plan subbing, you have to adapt to what the game throws at you. There’s no inconsistency, I didn’t want Morris to start but he did and played well so why not take full advantage of the situation? Likewise, Dabbagh looked rough to start the game and had a few poor touches, but then scores two. He’s not had a lot of game time of late, recognize that and leave him out there when there’s less pressure and the game is won, he needs minutes. 
when you are up 4-0 the intensity of a game changes. Opponents naturally lose heart, and passion for the game. It’s not like playing the last 30 against Celtic when it’s 0-0. I don’t think another 20 mins or more would have exhausted nisbet dabbagh or Morris, would have only benefitted them. 
Ambrose had one good layoff and one good header. Other than that he showed again that he doesn’t belong. There isn’t a single person who can honestly say he’s good enough for us, and playing him takes time away from another better player who would benefit both themself and the team more from these minutes.