Bebo signs 3 year deal

[Dandy_Don]

He'd probably be better off at a club with professional facilities and a good youth development system. Hibs would be a fantastic place for him to learn his trade.

 

He's got little to no chance of improving his game at a club like Aberdeen, so what you see is more or less what you're going to get.

 

Agreed he's young, and he's at a stage where players begin to pack on some muscle, but if he wants to develop as a player he's at the wrong club.

 

Did himself no favours signing a 3 year deal with us.

 

 

 

I also agree Kelt. Thats not unusual, but I want to start for the DT team on Saturday. BKK.

 

[???]

He'd probably be better off at a club with professional facilities and a good youth development system. Hibs would be a fantastic place for him to learn his trade.

 

He's got little to no chance of improving his game at a club like Aberdeen, so what you see is more or less what you're going to get.

 

Agreed he's young, and he's at a stage where players begin to pack on some muscle, but if he wants to develop as a player he's at the wrong club.

 

Did himself no favours signing a 3 year deal with us.

 

 

 

F*ck me, you're one miserable c*nt

[kelt]

F*ck me, you're one miserable c*nt

 

I also happen to be one realistic cunt.

 

 

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

I also happen to be one realistic cunt.

 

 

 

Very true.

 

 

[???]

I also happen to be one realistic cunt.

 

 

 

How the hell has he little or no chance of improving his game at Aberdeen? 

 

That's not a realistic statement...

[kelt]

How the hell has he little or no chance of improving his game at Aberdeen? 

 

That's not a realistic statement...

 

It's entirely realistic.

 

Our youth policy is pish, and whatever we do to 'coach' young attackers is completely ineffective.  Look at the likes of Bird and Mike and Prunty and Craig... all brought in as 'exciting prospects', all failed miserably to do anything.

 

Wyness and Mackie, Michie, brought through the ranks, Wyness left and Mackie is just as bad as he ever was. Michie ended up at Peterhead.

 

Our best strikers in recent years have ALL been guys we've brought in from outside, rather than having improved their game at Aberdeen.

 

Zeroali, Stavrum, Miller.

 

I can't think of any young forward that has come to Aberdeen and improved his game. none that weren't the finished article and flourished at Pittodrie to become a good player.

 

but hey, if you know different then let us hear about the successes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[???]

The point was more to do with 'improving his game', as his game is bound to improve if he's getting in the first team and playing, especially alongside Miller who is the perfect foil for Maguire's game.

 

I doubt Gareth Southgate and Steve Bruce would've sent Josh Walker and Sone Aluko up here last season if they didn't think it would help improve their game. 

 

The examples you've pointed out are great examples of players who've been hyped up but not fulfilled their supposed potential, but I don't think that Aberdeen are wholly at fault for that.  I mean, it's not as if they've gone on to bigger and better things once they've left us, they either weren't good enough (Prunty), didn't progress as expected (Michie), or just didn't have the right attitude (Mike/Bagshaw).  That's football, and this happens at every club season after season.

 

I also believe that there's a huge amount of pressure and expectation put on Aberdeen players (rightly or wrongly so), and it must be hard for young players to live up to expectations.  The previous successes of the club during the 80's and early 90's are still fresh in the memory for most, and the likes of Eoin Jess and Scott Booth are players that a majority of the support still remember as coming through the ranks.  They were our own, and we've not produced talent like that since, so someone's got to take the flak for that.  Don't they?

 

It's no hidden secret that our youth system was in need of a major overhaul, as far as we know the club is doing a lot to address this  , but it's worth remembering that we have produced our own in recent years. 

[kelt]

  , but it's worth remembering that we have produced our own in recent years. 

 

Like?

 

We've had Zander and Russ.. both defenders.

 

There's also been..... ?  And from a forwards point of view there's been no-one since Booth and Jess. And that was so long ago they're both retired from the game.

 

We don't produce keepers, midfielders or strikers, and we barely produce defenders with just Russ, Zander and McNaughton in recent years.

 

The point was that you said my statement that he won't improve his game at Aberdeen was "..not a realistic statement"

 

you haven't yet demonstrated why it's not a realistic statement.

 

 

 

 

 

[???]

Like?

 

We've had Zander and Russ.. both defenders.

 

There's also been..... ?  And from a forwards point of view there's been no-one since Booth and Jess. And that was so long ago they're both retired from the game.

 

Diamond, Anderson, Hart and McNaughton are the four that most would agree were our major successes.

 

Considine, Foster, Mackie and Clark all came through the ranks as well.  By no means am I saying that they are the best players in the world, but they've came through our ranks and play most weeks.

 

The point was that you said my statement that he won't improve his game at Aberdeen was "..not a realistic statement"

 

you haven't yet demonstrated why it's not a realistic statement.

 

And how have you demonstrated it is a realistic statement?  By pointing out players that haven't made the grade?  That has no reflection on Maguire's game whatsoever.

[kelt]

Diamond, Anderson, Hart and McNaughton are the four that most would agree were our major successes.

 

Hart was let go because he was pish. He came back a better player.   The other 3 I'd already mentioned.

 

Considine,

 

Is average at best.

 

Foster

 

See Considine

 

Mackie

 

Is atrocious and hasn't improved his game at all.

 

and Clark

 

 

And in all his time at Aberdeen was never coached to do one of the two things you look for in a winger.. go past his man.

 

all came through the ranks as well.  By no means am I saying that they are the best players in the world, but they've came through our ranks and play most weeks.

 

They're not only not the best players in the world, they're mediocre at best, sans those I already mentioned.

 

 

And how have you demonstrated it is a realistic statement?  By pointing out players that haven't made the grade? 

 

That's correct. by pointing out that Aberdeen, as a club, has a track record of in no way improving the game of their players to any noticeable degree, I've demonstrated that my comment was realistic.

 

That has no reflection on Maguire's game whatsoever.

 

I'd say that unless he proves himself to be the exception to the rule.. yes it is, and yes it will be.

 

 

[???]

Hart was let go because he was pish. He came back a better player.

 

 

Came through the ranks at Aberdeen

 

The other 3 I'd already mentioned..

 

The other four you hadn't.  Throw Derek Young in there as well.  Five players that've came through the ranks, regardless of our opinion of their ability

 

Is average at best..

 

Plays in the first team, and I'm sure his game has improved from when he was younger.

 

See Considine.

 

See my point on Considine

 

Is atrocious and hasn't improved his game at all..

 

He's better than he was when he played for Colony Park

 

And in all his time at Aberdeen was never coached to do one of the two things you look for in a winger.. go past his man..

 

Played central midfield a lot

 

They're not only not the best players in the world, they're mediocre at best, sans those I already mentioned..

 

And I don't disagree, but they've all came through the ranks and I think it's fair to say their games have improved since the day they first signed

 

That's correct. by pointing out that Aberdeen, as a club, has a track record of in no way improving the game of their players to any noticeable degree, I've demonstrated that my comment was realistic..

 

Zander Diamond.  Last season.  That is all.

 

I'd say that unless he proves himself to be the exception to the rule.. yes it is, and yes it will be.

 

No, it's not.

[kelt]

 

 

(Hart) Came through the ranks at Aberdeen.

 

You keep forgetting my point.  I'll remind you.  He didn't improve at Aberdeen, regardless of whether he was brought 'through the ranks'. He was still pish, and no-one was particularly bothered when he was released.  In fact the general consencus, when we heard he was returning, was "Crap". When he came back we discovered he was better than when he left.

 

 

 

The other four you hadn't.  Throw Derek Young in there as well.  Five players that've came through the ranks, regardless of our opinion of their ability

 

 

Again, you seem to be trying to make my point something other than it is.  Has Young improved?  In what respect?

 

Plays in the first team, and I'm sure his game has improved from when he was younger.

 

Yes? how?

 

See my point on Considine

 

He's better than he was when he played for Colony Park

 

How old was he when he played there? There's going to be an improvement in physical ability just by way of getting older and packing on muscles.  What areas has there been a noticeable improvement in Considine?

 

 

(Clark)Played central midfield a lot

 

Ah, so he was played out of position?  So how did that help him improve his game?  As a winger, his supposed main role, he consistently refused to take his man on.  Any team with decent coaches would surely have worked to develop that, no?

 

 

And I don't disagree, but they've all came through the ranks and I think it's fair to say their games have improved since the day they first signed

 

I'm not saying no-one comes 'through the ranks'.  we have a youth squad and sooner or later some of them will be released or given a role in the first team.  That doesn't mean they're improving significantly.  It means we have a paper thin squad. I'm saying, just to highlight my point for the 100th or so time, that we have no track record of developing so called 'talent'.  Not since the likes of Booth, Jess, Robertson or Glass. And certainly a very, very poor track record in developing our strikers, again we were told that Bird, Prunty, Mike and especially Craig were all very promising youngsters. Then there was Bagshaw who was supposedly repeatedly played out of position in the reserves. Not sure how that improves the game of a youngster who's trying to learn his trade. In fact it might be fair to say that because we have no idea how to develop these players they end up going backwards.

 

 

Zander Diamond.  Last season.  That is all.

 

Indeed, that IS all.  And a defender.  And someone I'd already mentioned.

 

One of a very few players that we have developed to any significant degree in recent years.

 

 

 

 

[???]

That doesn't mean they're improving significantly.

 

:-\

 

How, EXACTLY, would they not be improving from the time they first sign as a youngster, to the time they play in the first team? 

 

Are you saying that Aberdeen take on youngsters, play them in the youth/reserve sides for 3/4/5 years whilst they don't improve at all, then promote them to the first team?

 

[kelt]

:-\

 

How, EXACTLY, would they not be improving from the time they first sign as a youngster, to the time they play in the first team? 

 

I've already pointed out that physically they will inevitably improve. They may even improve slightly in skill, but I'm talking about developing a player.

 

Take Mackie.  He still smacks his shots over the bar when he's clear, he still knocks the ball at the goalkeeper.  He hasn't developed any little tricks, his composure hasn't improved in all the time I've seen him. When he came into the team his one thing was his pace.  Here we are about 7 seasons later and what's his one attribute?  His pace.  He's been taught nothing.

 

I use Mackie as an example because he's our longest serving striker, and as such is a reasonably benchmark by which to measure our training techniques.  Or lack of.

 

Are you saying that Aberdeen take on youngsters, play them in the youth/reserve sides for 3/4/5 years whilst they don't improve at all, then promote them to the first team?

 

 

They probably improve to a certain extent, particularly physically.  I remember when Jess and Booth broke through, Jess in particular had these little stick legs.  A couple of seasons later and he had muscles on his legs like any other SPL player. My concern is that we don't have a competent coaching staff, and if our players ARE learning anything to develop their game on the skills side of things, I'm not aware of it.

 

Still waiting for you to get me up to speed with the success stories our forwards coaches can point to that might, somehow, point to me being wrong about the likelyhood of Maguire developing to any measurable extent, btw.

 

 

[kelt]

Seems I was wrong about Mackie.

 

From Dons Mad

 

"Mackie - needs 4 touches to control ball."

 

He's improving then.

[???]

Take Mackie.  He still smacks his shots over the bar when he's clear, he still knocks the ball at the goalkeeper.  He hasn't developed any little tricks, his composure hasn't improved in all the time I've seen him. When he came into the team his one thing was his pace.  Here we are about 7 seasons later and what's his one attribute?  His pace.  He's been taught nothing.

 

I use Mackie as an example because he's our longest serving striker, and as such is a reasonably benchmark by which to measure our training techniques.  Or lack of.

 

Had you ever seen Mackie play before he signed for Aberdeen?

 

They probably improve to a certain extent, particularly physically.  I remember when Jess and Booth broke through, Jess in particular had these little stick legs.  A couple of seasons later and he had muscles on his legs like any other SPL player. My concern is that we don't have a competent coaching staff, and if our players ARE learning anything to develop their game on the skills side of things, I'm not aware of it.

 

So do they improve or not?

 

Still waiting for you to get me up to speed with the success stories our forwards coaches can point to that might, somehow, point to me being wrong about the likelyhood of Maguire developing to any measurable extent, btw.

 

I ignored that, because your original quote wasn't about forwards, it was about Aberdeen not improving players.  I've since shown you players who Aberdeen have obviously improved, but now you're ignoring that and askng me to name, specifically, forwards we've improved.

[kelt]

Had you ever seen Mackie play before he signed for Aberdeen?

 

So do they improve or not?

 

I ignored that, because your original quote wasn't about forwards, it was about Aberdeen not improving players.  I've since shown you players who Aberdeen have obviously improved, but now you're ignoring that and askng me to name, specifically, forwards we've improved.

 

My original quote?

 

Let's take a look at my original quote,the one you chose to take issue with.

 

How the hell has he little or no chance of improving his game at Aberdeen? 

That's not a realistic statement...

 

No, my original quote was about the likelyhood of Maguire improving his game.

 

Not about players, but specifically about Maguire.

 

In fact, my reply to you was ENTIRELY and SOLEY about strikers.. not about ANY OTHER position.

 

And here it is, since you clearly 'forgot'.

 

It's entirely realistic.

 

Our youth policy is pish, and whatever we do to 'coach' young attackers is completely ineffective.  Look at the likes of Bird and Mike and Prunty and Craig... all brought in as 'exciting prospects', all failed miserably to do anything.

 

Wyness and Mackie, Michie, brought through the ranks, Wyness left and Mackie is just as bad as he ever was. Michie ended up at Peterhead.

 

Our best strikers in recent years have ALL been guys we've brought in from outside, rather than having improved their game at Aberdeen.

 

Zeroali, Stavrum, Miller.

 

I can't think of any young forward that has come to Aberdeen and improved his game. none that weren't the finished article and flourished at Pittodrie to become a good player.

 

but hey, if you know different then let us hear about the successes.

 

I then went on to say that we'd been able to bring on a very small handful of defenders, but that we didn't have a track record of deveoping good midfielders, goalkeepers and attackers.

 

THAT you chose to ignore, by then reiterating the names of the defenders I'd ALREADY mentioned, then adding Hart who to all intents and purposes was shite when he left us and showed improvement when he returned.

 

Defenders like Diamond and Anderson improved at Pittodrie.

 

McNaughton I also conceded, but the fact is that he had stagnated at Pittodrie, and now that he's left he's on the fringes of international football, which is again a testimony to how innefective our coaching is.

 

But nice try.

 

 

[???]

I'm sorry Adam, this is my original quote?

 

No worries Kelt, let me see it.

 

He'd probably be better off at a club with professional facilities and a good youth development system. Hibs would be a fantastic place for him to learn his trade.

 

He's got little to no chance of improving his game at a club like Aberdeen, so what you see is more or less what you're going to get.

 

Agreed he's young, and he's at a stage where players begin to pack on some muscle, but if he wants to develop as a player he's at the wrong club.

Did himself no favours signing a 3 year deal with us.

 

 

Anyways, now that we've cleared that up, I'd like it if you could answer my other question about Mackie.  Had you seen him play before he turned out for Aberdeen?

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Young strikers die at AFC, generally, strikers die at AFC.

 

We have improved/brought through defenders recently, Anderson, Diamond, Hart and McNaughton.

 

That is it.

 

Clark brought in some dough though.

[kelt]

No worries Kelt, let me see it.

 

 

Anyways, now that we've cleared that up, I'd like it if you could answer my other question about Mackie.  Had you seen him play before he turned out for Aberdeen?

 

All you've done is highlight some ambiguous lines that in no way is a reinterpretation of my point.  That I was, and still am, primarily talking about strikers. 

 

You can continue to try to tell me what you thought I was talking about, but that would be a pretty idiotic thing to do since I've repeatedly told you that I was talking about forwards specifically. Are you capable of processing new information as it's given to you, or is clarification of a point not something you have the skills to incorporate into a discussion?

 

I then went on to point out that we also have no record of developing midfielders and goalkeepers, and we only have very limited success with defenders.

 

The fact is that our youth system as a whole is shit and we barely develop any players worth a fuck.

 

Anyways, now that we've cleared that up, I'd like it if you could answer my other question about Mackie.  Had you seen him play before he turned out for Aberdeen?

 

Not to be difficult, but you didn't answer any of my questions, so why would I take the effort to answer one of yours?

 

 

[???]

All you've done is highlight some ambiguous lines that in no way is a reinterpretation of my point.  That I was, and still am, primarily talking about strikers. 

 

I was replying to the first quote as I've pointed out  in which you didn't specify strikers as such, the point that came across to me, and I'm sure others, was that Aberdeen do not produce their own players. 

 

Even though I've since pointed out a number of players that Aberdeen have brought the ranks, you've now changed it again and are dismissing these players, narrowing it down to strikers.  I agree we are sh*te at bringing through strikers, for whatever reason, but that wasn't the initial point I was questioning.

 

My sincerest apologies for missing a point that wasn't there  but you've since repeatedly said that we don't produce players, not just specifically strikers.  So taking all of this into account, I think it's fair of me to question your original point. 

 

You can continue to try to tell me what you thought I was talking about, but that would be a pretty idiotic thing to do since I've repeatedly told you that I was talking about forwards specifically. Are you capable of processing new information as it's given to you, or is clarification of a point not something you have the skills to incorporate into a discussion?

 

Yes, I can process new information, but I like to clear everything up instead of creating new debate over the top of points that haven't yet been cleared up.  I'll take heed of the new information when I feel I've gotten to the bottom of your initial point.

 

I then went on to point out that we also have no record of developing midfielders and goalkeepers, and we only have very limited success with defenders.

 

On the goalkeeper and striker front, I agree, but it's worth remembering that these positions are the hardest to fill in for any team.  I can't think of many teams that are constantly bringing through decent goalkeepers and strikers. 

 

The fact is that our youth system as a whole is shit and we barely develop any players worth a fuck.

 

What constitutes them being 'worth a fuck'? 

 

Anderson, Clark, Hart and McNaughton are players that could've, and should've, been 'worth a fuck' but managed to leave for a lot less than their true worth.  Not because they're sh*te, but because of the boards incompetence.

 

I think it's fair to assume that Diamond will move on if he develops as we expect, so hopefully the board will get this right and we sell him for a pretty penny, which should make him 'worth a fuck'.

 

Not to be difficult, but you didn't answer any of my questions, so why would I take the effort to answer one of yours?

 

Okay, I take it that you haven't seen Mackie playing before he signed for Aberdeen, so can't truly comment on whether or not he's improved. 

[kelt]

I was replying to the first quote as I've pointed out  in which you didn't specify strikers as such, the point that came across to me, and I'm sure others, was that Aberdeen do not produce their own players. 

 

And the point was clarified, in detail in the very next post to you.  As I said, you either won't or simply can't accept clarification. This is a failing of your reading comprehension, and tat's really not my fault or problem, is it?

 

 

Even though I've since pointed out a number of players that Aberdeen have brought the ranks, you've now changed it again and are dismissing these players, narrowing it down to strikers.

 

Again, rather than narrowing it down from strikers, I expanded it to include midfielders and goalkeepers.  Again, the problem is your reading comprehension.

 

I agree we are sh*te at bringing through strikers, for whatever reason, but that wasn't the initial point I was questioning.

 

My point was clarified in the second post to specifically point out the failings in our coaching of forwards.  Once again, your reading comprehension leads to your confusion.

 

My sincerest apologies for missing a point that wasn't there  but you've since repeatedly said that we don't produce players, not just specifically strikers.

 

 

The point was there. It was clarified in my detailed clarification.  Once again, if clarification isn't something you can comprehend then the problem lies with you.  There's really nothing I can do to help you there.

 

So taking all of this into account, I think it's fair of me to question your original point. 

 

Actually, it displays some form of obsessive compulsion to not understand the point in light of my clarification. Once again, if you can't understand my point in light of my clarification then you may want to get some help in remedial English.

 

Yes, I can process new information, but I like to clear everything up instead of creating new debate over the top of points that haven't yet been cleared up.  I'll take heed of the new information when I feel I've gotten to the bottom of your initial point.

 

Once again,my point was clarified to clear up any ambiguity.  My clarification very, very clearly pointed out that I was primarily talking about strikers. I can see where the problem stems from, since you say you can't take on board new information until you've thrashed the original post to death, despite my clarification in my very FIRST response to you.  If you aren;t capable or willing to move on to the clarification then you're never going to understand the point.  That's the point of processing new information, it helps you see the bigger picture.  Obsessing over a post that may have been ambiguous to you isn't going to help you get the real point.  A point I've explained to you about half a dozen times now. 

 

 

On the goalkeeper and striker front, I agree, but it's worth remembering that these positions are the hardest to fill in for any team.  I can't think of many teams that are constantly bringing through decent goalkeepers and strikers.   

 

Really?  I'm surprised that you can agree with a point I made later. After the point I made about strikers, in fact. And a point you just said you weren't able to comprehend because you were still ruminating on the first post I made.  That's rather odd...

 

What constitutes them being 'worth a fuck'? 

 

Being able to do their job at a level I would consider to be at a level worthy of being in the first team.  Obviously said definition is subjective.

 

 

Anderson, Clark, Hart and McNaughton are players that could've, and should've, been 'worth a fuck' but managed to leave for a lot less than their true worth.  Not because they're sh*te, but because of the boards incompetence.

 

anderson suffered injury at Southampton and was never given a fair crack. He could have done a job, but circumstance rather than ability fucked him over. Hart was no loss when he left, yet he came back a better player. McNaughton stagnated, and has done well at Cardiff. He wasn't progressing at the club, yet now he's on the Scotland fringes. Kinda backs up what I'm saying if anything.

 

I think it's fair to assume that Diamond will move on if he develops as we expect, so hopefully the board will get this right and we sell him for a pretty penny, which should make him 'worth a fuck'.

 

Not to labour the point, but I did mention Diamond as one of the exceptions.  All you're doing here is agreeing with me.

 

 

Okay, I take it that you haven't seen Mackie playing before he signed for Aberdeen, so can't truly comment on whether or not he's improved. 

 

Mackie was a product of our youth system. He signed on at 16 and has developed physically since he's now 26, but in all the years of playing and being coached at Aberdeen.. since he was 16.. he's still shit. I can't see why seeing him play as a physically weak kid would have any bearing on the fact that he hasn't developed at all at Pittodrie. What point were you making there, if any?

 

You just seem to be looking for a lengthy and pointless argument at this point.  you obviously, for whatever reason, have decided you're going to attach meaning to my post that by now you should know wasn't there, and no amount of trying to explain my point to you is going to make any difference.

 

If you want to ignore that I was initially talking about Maguire and his chances of improving (as a result of.. the coaches who train our forwards) then that's fine.  I'm seriously losing interest in playing this game with you.  Maybe this sort of "NO.. YOU SAID...." stuffis what gets you off, , but I can only give you so much of the attention you're looking for.

 

I've made my point, I've repeatedly clarified my point, you've continued to focus on the ambiguity you found in my initial point and ignore my attempts to get you to understand that point because of some kind of weird pleasure you're getting out of it.

 

Bottom line is that if you refuse to accept my point by now you're going to refuse to accept my point a hundred posts from now. and that's not really something I'm interested in getting involved in. 

 

you can have the last word.  It'll no doubt be something about how "YOU SAID...".

 

Knock yourself out, Bud.

 

 

 

[???]

My point was clarified

 

No, you crossed your wires.  You said one thing, then the other.  I was getting pretty confused as well. 

 

Aberdeen don't produce any players

 

Apart from Hart, Anderson, and McNaughton

 

They don't count though, as they're defenders

 

Now, if we could improve forwards and goalkeepers, we just can't improve forwards

 

In saying that, we can't produce players worth a f*ck

 

I suppose Diamond sort of counts, but he's a defender, so not really

 

We can't imrpove players

 

Actually we can

 

Only physically though, that doesn't count

 

It's okay, we'll just agree that I was right and you were wrong.

 

[kelt]

 

 

[???]