Todays fitba

[rocket_scientist]

Absolutely, even when it was a bit of a mess, the skill levels involved were very high. Two brilliant goals and another two assists from özil, who is an.absolute gem to the premier league. Quiet, unassuming but an assassin. Mangala is not a footballer though.

 

I've never watched Mangala so don't know enough about him to discuss but I'm presuming he's a stand-in for the injured Kompany, who I raved about in his first season in England.

 

Ozil was someone I thought would be a real coup for the gooners but someone I feel has had too many games where he's done fuck all. There is no doubting his incredible skill but I wonder about his heart, his ability to dig out performances when adversity is looking him in the eye? Didn't Mourinho marginalise him at Madrid for a while, perhaps for the same reason?

 

The fact that there were so few mistakes in the first half hour, so many great supporting runs, the ball was being zipped about at pace, being instantly controlled almost ALL of the time was astonishing and a joy to watch, despite very few chances being created. Then it exploded with a fantastic Walcott strike.

 

I'm surprised both teams aren't doing better. The standard on show was infinitely better than Leicester Chelsea the week before, although that plus this are the only two full EPL games I've bothered to watch for ages. Wenger will never have a better chance than this season.

[manc_don]

I've never watched Mangala so don't know enough about him to discuss but I'm presuming he's a stand-in for the injured Kompany, who I raved about in his first season in England.

 

Ozil was someone I thought would be a real coup for the gooners but someone I feel has had too many games where he's done fuck all. There is no doubting his incredible skill but I wonder about his heart, his ability to dig out performances when adversity is looking him in the eye? Didn't Mourinho marginalise him at Madrid for a while, perhaps for the same reason?

 

The fact that there were so few mistakes in the first half hour, so many great supporting runs, the ball was being zipped about at pace, being instantly controlled almost ALL of the time was astonishing and a joy to watch, despite very few chances being created. Then it exploded with a fantastic Walcott strike.

 

I'm surprised both teams aren't doing better. The standard on show was infinitely better than Leicester Chelsea the week before, although that plus this are the only two full EPL games I've bothered to watch for ages. Wenger will never have a better chance than this season.

 

I think that's a bit harsh. Ozil has had a brilliant season so far and I think he's definitely won over those doubters (there are many within a fickle Arsenal support).  I've always enjoyed watching him and I never really understood why Mourinho marginalised him until he did the same to Mata at Chelsea. The problem is, these players aren't exactly his type of player but I think Wenger has changed this somewhat this season.  I've seen Ozil track back, not necessarily make tackles but certainly puts himself about. He is also now on 16 assists, and considering it's only half way through the season, he's only going to add to that bar any serious injuries. He's had to dig deep a number of times and generally if he plays badly, the whole of the team appears to. A thoroughly enjoyable player to watch and Arsenal are very lucky to have him. One of the few World Class footballers in the premier league.  I just hope Leicester can keep their squad together and fit. It's shaping up to be quite an interesting season with all the other bigger teams toiling. Watford, Palace, Everton, Leicester and to a degree Spurs are all adding to the entertainment.

[rocket_scientist]

I must clarify that I'm talking more about BEFORE this season. I've seen very little of the EPL in recent months.

 

Delighted to hear Ozil is finally doing the business. I was hugely enthused by his coming to these shores.

[manc_don]

I must clarify that I'm talking more about BEFORE this season. I've seen very little of the EPL in recent months.

 

Delighted to hear Ozil is finally doing the business. I was hugely enthused by his coming to these shores.

 

Fair enough, I think much of what he did was missed and what he didn't do (nor was it his job description imo) was highlighted, incorrectly.

[rocket_scientist]

Although whatever he, and his team have done before this season hasn't been very effective.

 

Arsenal have been nowhere near good enough to compete at the top end of the game for years, since long before he joined them.

 

For this I've always blamed Wenger. He's just not a winner. His talent-identification skills are his best suit. But he's not a good enough man-manager for me. Not enough cunt about him i.e. insufficient ruthlessness.

[manc_don]

Although whatever he, and his team have done before this season hasn't been very effective.

 

Arsenal have been nowhere near good enough to compete at the top end of the game for years, since long before he joined them.

 

For this I've always blamed Wenger. He's just not a winner. His talent-identification skills are his best suit. But he's not a good enough man-manager for me. Not enough cunt about him i.e. insufficient ruthlessness.

 

I'm not an arsenal fan but I never understand the criticism levelled at Wenger.  He's been building for a couple of years now and whilst I think there were times he probably should have invested, he's gradually started doing so.  The stadium has been paid off (I think?) and there is now money available. He started with Giroud, Callum Chambers, then jumped up to Ozil and Sanchez. Cech was a master stroke, i'm still amazed Chelsea let him go to a rival, on a free.  Don't get me wrong, i've laughed long and hard at Arsenal fans for all their talk they always failed to win a trophy after those halcyon days. But they're now in a better position than most of the bigger clubs. I will give you his lack of ruthlessness though, seems a soft touch, but I wouldn't say he isn't a winner because of it. He know's how to win but until now I don't think he's allowed himself the resources to do so for one reason or another.

[rocket_scientist]

I'm not an arsenal fan but I never understand the criticism levelled at Wenger.  He's been building for a couple of years now and whilst I think there were times he probably should have invested, he's gradually started doing so.  The stadium has been paid off (I think?) and there is now money available. He started with Giroud, Callum Chambers, then jumped up to Ozil and Sanchez. Cech was a master stroke, i'm still amazed Chelsea let him go to a rival, on a free.  Don't get me wrong, i've laughed long and hard at Arsenal fans for all their talk they always failed to win a trophy after those halcyon days. But they're now in a better position than most of the bigger clubs. I will give you his lack of ruthlessness though, seems a soft touch, but I wouldn't say he isn't a winner because of it. He know's how to win but until now I don't think he's allowed himself the resources to do so for one reason or another.

 

Results are a good benchmark. He's not delivered the league nor been close to either that or the CL for a very long time.

 

The reasons why he has failed to do this are worth examining.

 

I also agree and feel that his lack of spending, certainly relative to others - I think he has a considerable net gain in transfers over the last decade - is a strong argument for being a barrier-to-the-top. But the dichotomy here is that his incredible eye for talent is WHY he's been making transfer gains, or a "transfer credit" if you like. That's his greatest strength, his recruitment of talent. I didn't think Joel Campbell had a particularly effective shift on Monday but at his age, having 55 caps for his country already, this guy can obviously play football. EVERY regular starter under Wenger can play, and almost every single one of them has exceptional technical ability. Let's be honest, who of us, and who of the Arsenal fans had heard of him until Wenger bought him, before sticking him out on loan to various places presumably to enhance his experience and learn his own game.

 

My own criticism of Wenger is purely results-based. Whilst the paying off of the Emirates stadium may well have been a contributory factor to his being unable to spend heavily in the market, like Barcelona though, he's been building effective units for a very long time, just on a lesser scale. I think he has had squads capable of winning the EPL. They just haven't got close, certainly this decade and before this season.

 

The reason that his fantastic technical footballers haven't stayed the distance over the course of any season before is purely down to him in my opinion. He's an artist and a scientist, an idealist but not a street-fighter. To win a fight, particularly a long fight over 10 months, you can't rely just on method and formulas, picking great potential and turning them into skilful technicians. You have to get down and dirty in the trenches and fight like fuck and have the character to deal with adversity, recognise that it will always show itself and have the mental fortitude to get through it.

 

Wenger is too idealistic to get involved in a scrap and doesn't appreciate the value of mental strength and character, preferring to think that technical excellence can triumph over all. That's not worked for well over a decade now and it's only because Chelsea, Man U and Man C this season are doing so much worse than they can have reasonably expected to, that he's got his best chance ever of breaking a long personal drought.

 

There's a long way to go of course but much as I would love to see it, I can't see the fairytale Leicester story keeping up steam. They're already overachieving with what they have and would have to invest heavily in the January transfer window to strengthen their squad to get close to achieving the impossible dream.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Wenger has had a blind spot on the defensive side of the game for a good few years now. His centre backs have been generally poor for years - Mertesacker is at best a liability. Koscielny is a decent player but needs a steady influence next to him. His full backs have generally been weak for years too as well as his keepers - Cech being the obvious exception over the last 10 years or so.

 

The defensive midfield role has been a nightmare for him - Vieira left and Gilberto Silva came in and was a good player but he didn't get enough time out of him before he was using Flamini but let him go too readily and now has him back. In between times it's been a disaster for him.

 

Up front... Giroud is a flat track bully and none of the other big sides in Europe would have gone anywhere near him - or if they had, they would have got rid a long time ago.

 

Wenger walked in at Arsenal to a team which had the famous back line, Wright, Bergkamp and had already signed Vieira and/or Petit (can't quite remember the sequence of those events).  He then supplemented the team with Sol Campbell a few years later - a very good move. But the side he came into was one that was already rich with talent - it could be argued it never got that much better in terms of personnel.

[rocket_scientist]

That's an interesting point re his defence blind spot.

 

Whilst this might fit with my impression of his idealist temperament, there is one exception.

 

Gael Clichy is a superb footballer. I didn't appreciate this until I saw him in the flesh. Then again, whilst he has technical skills better than the vast majority of midfielders and strikers, what he was employed to do was defend and so I guess he might just have been yet another symptom of Wenger's over-appreciation of technical expertise.

 

I'm not as down on Giroud than you either. I like strong forwards like him and think he's had a tougher press than he may deserve.

[rocket_scientist]

The last time Arsenal won a game after trailing at HT was over FOUR YEARS AGO!

 

5-3 v. Chelsea was the last time, October 2011.

 

28 times since then they've been down at HT and 17 defeats and 11 draws is the count.

 

Having just conceded a 2nd to Southampton, looks like this trend will be continuing.

 

Gutless Wenger. Same old, same old.

[BobbyBiscuit]

3-0 to a team out of form.  That's a bit of a doing. 

 

Arsenal have Arsenal-ed it.

[tlg1903]

2-2 final score at tynecastle, what a ping by sow to level the game late at the end.  Rogic's was a cracker too. 

[rocket_scientist]

If ever there was proof of the disgustingness of Man U, today sealed it.

 

Before kick off they're selling Mourinho scarves. They have loads of banners like Leave Vanish Go etc.

 

Their manager is a dick but he's got pedigree and whilst he's fair game for non MU, it's pretty disgusting how they turn on their own so quick.

 

Like Rangers and Real Madrid, no-one likes us, we don't care.

 

These are clubs that attract the sad, the arrogant and the ignorant.

 

Hope Chelsea find something in this second half. Shite game so far.

[BobbyBiscuit]

If ever there was proof of the disgustingness of Man U, today sealed it.

 

Before kick off they're selling Mourinho scarves. They have loads of banners like Leave Vanish Go etc.

 

Their manager is a dick but he's got pedigree and whilst he's fair game for non MU, it's pretty disgusting how they turn on their own so quick.

 

Like Rangers and Real Madrid, no-one likes us, we don't care.

 

These are clubs that attract the sad, the arrogant and the ignorant.

 

Hope Chelsea find something in this second half. Shite game so far.

 

So one independent merchandise seller gets them made up - clearly a PR stunt - and it represents the whole club? Don't be silly.

 

Thought it was a pretty good game played at a decent pace but clearly two teams who have confidence issues. Not a brilliant game but certainly not poor.  United are miles better without Fellaini on the pitch (who knew?) and with Darmian and Herrera on it. Darmian's overlapping and Herrera's movement are so positive and completely change the tempo of their play.

 

Would be nice if Schweinsteiger could, at some point, pass the ball forward to a team mate.

 

Found it strange that the London Huns started with Pedro wide rather than through the middle. Let United off the hook there i think.

[rocket_scientist]

I was hardly suggesting that the club, rather than an opportunist was making the scarves.

 

The fact that they were bought, plus the very many home-made banners were proof of my point.

 

Lest we forget, this is the disgusting club that called for the head of SAF.

 

Unlike LvG however, the board got it right back then.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I was hardly suggesting that the club, rather than an opportunist was making the scarves.

 

The fact that they were bought, plus the very many home-made banners were proof of my point.

 

Lest we forget, this is the disgusting club that called for the head of SAF.

 

Unlike LvG however, the board got it right back then.

 

"...the disgustingness of Man U" kind of suggests the club, chief.

 

LvG has made a right James Hunt of it, you can't be surprised people want him out, Christ we had a similar discussion re McInnes for sins far less than the Dutchman's.

[rocket_scientist]

"...the disgustingness of Man U" kind of suggests the club, chief.

 

Therein lies the requirement for definition. What is the club? Who are the club?

 

It is the support that defines a club best.

 

Man U fans, exactly like Rangers fans, are the most obnoxious people on planet earth.

 

Like Real Madrid too. Their divine right to win has more correlation with their reasons for supporting them than anything to do with any "natural" affiliation. In the RFC case of course, you can add reasons of Protestantism and anti-Catholicism but it's still from the same origins of human sickness. Real Madrid are also swelled by historic illness, the harking back to war and intolerance being their foundation.

[rocket_scientist]

The worst three managers in the EPL are in the relegation spots right now.

 

French Fud Villa, Fat Sam and Brolly Steve. You can't imagine how these cunts even got a job.

[Tyrant]

Obviously I'm quite enjoying seeing the shambles at Man Utd. It cheers me up after Liverpool get pumped by shite like Palace and Newcastle. I honestly think that Man Utd should stick with Van Gaal. Just like I think Swansea should have stuck with Monk and Chelsea should have stuck with Mourinho. Although I don't always think it's best to stick with what you've got. Steve McLaren for example, is a fucking clown. But as Rocket said Van Gaal has pedigree and a hell of a lot of experience. I get that Man Utd fans crave better football but holding up tea towels with poorly spelled slurs against the current management is helping fucking nothing. Like the dicks that site behind me in the South Stand and fucking moan and groan about everything. They're almost gutted when we score because they have to stop fucking moaning for a few seconds. Van Gaal isn't a likeable man but the best managers are often dicks. Sir Alex and Mourinho are further examples.

[Stewart]

Obviously I'm quite enjoying seeing the shambles at Man Utd. It cheers me up after Liverpool get pumped by shite like Palace and Newcastle. I honestly think that Man Utd should stick with Van Gaal. Just like I think Swansea should have stuck with Monk and Chelsea should have stuck with Mourinho. Although I don't always think it's best to stick with what you've got. Steve McLaren for example, is a fucking clown. But as Rocket said Van Gaal has pedigree and a hell of a lot of experience. I get that Man Utd fans crave better football but holding up tea towels with poorly spelled slurs against the current management is helping fucking nothing. Like the dicks that site behind me in the South Stand and fucking moan and groan about everything. They're almost gutted when we score because they have to stop fucking moaning for a few seconds. Van Gaal isn't a likeable man but the best managers are often dicks. Sir Alex and Mourinho are further examples.

 

Difference with Van Gaal is that he's said he's leaving at the end of next season hasn't he? Seems a bit pointless to continue with him.

 

I liked Paul Scholes reaction to the Mourinho scarves 

 

[tom_widdows]

Arabs self destructing again.

 

How long before Celtic complete the job and sign Blair Spittal & Billy Mackay?

[rocket_scientist]

Two stunning goals by Citeh late on at Watford. Unsavable.

[rocket_scientist]

Beautiful and simple goal by Chelsea there. Fabregas superb to Costa + perfect cut back.

 

More proof that they weren't playing for Mourinho, perhaps?

 

Possibly because of his over-active ego being an ugly aspect to behold?

 

Edit: proof in the stats: -

 

Mourinho P 16, W 4, D 3, L 9 = 15 pts

Since super ego P 4, W 2, D 2 = 8 pts

[rocket_scientist]

Some of the football this Xmas period in England has been stunning. That goal by Spurs was awesome, as was Everton's opener.

[rocket_scientist]

Benzema just now. Sheer class.

 

This has been a treat these last few days, having the time to watch a ton of football and it all being good.

 

Watched more these last two weeks than I have all season. Brilliant stuff.