New stadium thread

[tom_widdows]

St Marys - http://binged.it/HDyoah - Purpose built new stadium in brownbelt site with 3 sides of the stadium surrounded by carparking and a large concourse (like that of the RDS) separating the other side from a public road. Emergency access on all 4 sides

 

Old Trafford - http://binged.it/IKDfr8 - Very rich club able to buy out residents and businesses to clear the area around. Large pedestrian zones/ carparks on 3 sides. Matt Busby way provides access only to the stadium. They however cannot reach an agreement with the railway so they as of yet cannot redevelop the old main stand to increase their capacity to 90000.

 

Carrow Road - http://binged.it/HDz2Vt - all 4 sides of the stadium are pedestrian control areas. No public access roads are impeded on match days and emergency services have full access on all sides.

 

The Hawthorns - http://binged.it/IKEHdf - Slightly tight site but plenty of alternative roads routes and accesses allow them to control Halford lane on match days. Stand on Birmingham road has minimum distance permitted to allow for queuing spectators and still allowed them to increase capacity. Compare that situation to the main stand at pittodrie. And of course - emergency cervice access on all 4 sides.

 

Pittodrie - http://binged.it/IKCnTl

Older aerial view but the development behind the South Stand is now complete.

North is Pittodrie street - A public road providing access to businesses and homes. You cannot permanantly close public roads without providing a replacement route, especially if they encircle large venues which require strict emergency service access. Any new stand at pittodrie brings in the new regulations even if the other 3 dont.

 

Finally you seem to imply that compulsory purchase orders are something you just have to  fill out a form and obtain. For airports, railway lines etc perhaps yes. For private companys wanting to extend? No chance. Take a look at how much Arsenal had to pay out to clear thes site for the Emirates.

[warleywoods]

Fair point regarding St Johnstone and St Mirren. Whether you class the moves as a success I'm not sure.

 

Too early to tell with St Mirren perhaps but St Johnstone have been at McDiarmid since 1989 and it hasn't fundamentally changed their fortunes. Perhaps they would have gone out of business if Muirton hadn't been bought out by ASDA.

 

I don't know what average attendance level the business case at Loirston is based on, although the transport impact was based on 14,000, but I do know that our crowds are the worst in 40 years and that historically even when we were arguably one of the best teams in Europe our average league attendance was only around 17000.

 

Is there a huge latent support that don't like coming to Pittodrie that will come to Loirston. The evidence of history would suggest otherwise.

 

I also believe that the barriers to the move are increasing. The club has not assembled all the land at Loirston, the land value at Pittodrie may not meet the requirements of the business plan as well as the lending banks scrutinising the business plan a lot more closely than they used to. 

 

Tom - you obviously believe the move is the best thing for the club and I respect that view and if the move is successful please come back and remind me. I'll repeat my assertion though that if the report on the viability of Pittodrie is so compelling and damning then why not publish it or at least some extracts. My own view is that the club has not done it's research as well as it could and should have done and that the move is too risky, particularly at the present time when there is so much uncertainty around.

 

 

 

[tom_widdows]

Who said I believe the move was the best thing for the club?

The only thing ive done is counter your claims regarding stadium design and relocations being bad for every club that does it.

 

What inspired me to weigh back into this debate was your original post appeared to be full of claims and opinions stating the move will destroy the club, the move is a Stewart milne plot and that pittodrie can easily be redeveloped if people have enough imagination. The last part in particular jarred due to past experience of developers wanting the moon on a stick and getting arsey when you show them reality.

 

Like the Aberdeen bypass protestors and those against renewable energy you seem quick to say a plan is flawed or a waste of money but you fail to offer a feasible alternative solution to the problem

 

Im interested by your opinions regarding St Johnstone and St Mirrens success. Id say in todays financial climate a change which wipes out your debt, provides facilities to bring on your own players and give your supporters a nicer place to watch you is the foundations for survival ergo success. Im beginning to think your idea of success is in a similar league to Mr Romanov. Spend money you dont have for a few short years of success before returning to where you started from but with a bigger debt.

 

 

 

 

[Azteca1903]

Moved back by twelve months. Surely nobody saw this coming.

 

The timetable for Aberdeen Football Club's relocation from Pittodrie to a new state of the art sports stadium at Loirston Loch has been revised with the move now scheduled to take place in the summer of 2014, in time for the start of the 2014-5 season, twelve months later than originally anticipated.

 

The Club's Chief Executive Duncan Fraser commented. "From the outset, when we announced the original timetable, we did state it was an extremely robust and ambitious timescale and that has proved to be exactly the case.

 

"The issue of land assembly in the locality of the site was always going to be one of the major challenges and, while we remain confident of a positive outcome, the process has taken longer than we had originally hoped. While moving during the course of a season was certainly an option, that course of action was ruled out as the most appropriate time for such a move would be in the close season. In addition, there is no doubt everybody connected with AFC was extremely disappointed with the season just finished and the stadium being put back by twelve months will allow the number one focus next season to be in ensuring on the field success.

 

"While the delay is disappointing, such is the scale of the project, it is imperative to ensure we are not giving ourselves unrealistic deadlines to work towards and we can now carry on with planning for a further two full seasons at Pittodrie.

 

Plans for the new 21,000 stadium for Aberdeen Football Club were approved by Aberdeen City Council and the Scottish Government early last year, followed by approval for the sale of the existing Pittodrie Stadium site for residential use, with the proviso that work on the current home of AFC would not commence until the stadium at Loirston was completed.

 

 

http://www.afc.co.uk/articles/20120525/club-statement_2212158_2788124

 

[glasgowdon]

Delaying tactics regarding the Huns and the financial implications of that maybe?

[Kowalski]

Delaying tactics regarding the Huns and the financial implications of that maybe?

 

The thought had occurred to me as well.  Maybe going to share Cove's new ground once they realise how many people will abandon the SPL if a newco is voted in...

[Jute]

No bids at the level they thought they would get for Pittodrie is my guess.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

No bids at the level they thought they would get for Pittodrie is my guess.

 

Mine too.

[tom_widdows]

Been trying to keep my head in the sand the last couple of months but there is now absolutely no denying the construction industry is fucked. Very few developers with money available or who can actually get credit from the bank which doesnt have Wonga.com interest rates and they are either snapping up smaller sites in nicer areas or know fine well the ball is in their court when negotiating a sale price.

A site like this outside of London isnt going to shift for the price the club wants/needs

 

By my reckoning the stadium move wont happen till 2018 at the earliest, if it ever happens at all.

[Jute]

Been trying to keep my head in the sand the last couple of months but there is now absolutely no denying the construction industry is fucked. Very few developers with money available or who can actually get credit from the bank which doesnt have Wonga.com interest rates and they are either snapping up smaller sites in nicer areas or know fine well the ball is in their court when negotiating a sale price.

A site like this outside of London isnt going to shift for the price the club wants/needs

 

By my reckoning the stadium move wont happen till 2018 at the earliest, if it ever happens at all.

 

Seriously doubt bank is going to wait that long for their cash.

 

[Rebus30]

more delays to the move of the new stadium: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-18208190

 

[Madbadteacher]

Well, we won't be able to afford it/need it when the huns get relegated to div 3 because we all know "Scottish football and the SPL need them"  :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

[Kowalski]

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2822580

 

Does this affect us?  Is our new training complex not tied in to what Cove Rangers are doing, or am I talking shite?

[Jute]

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2822580

 

Does this affect us?  Is our new training complex not tied in to what Cove Rangers are doing, or am I talking shite?

 

Pretty sure it was a joint venture between us and them and their ground was part of training facility

[glasgow sheep]

wtf are the council playing at?

 

EE

ABERDEEN FC today launched a scathing attack on council chiefs Barney Crockett and Willie Young over Calder Park plans.

Aberdeen FC vice-chairman George Yule accused Labour leader Mr Crockett and finance convener Mr Young of “playing politics” with the club’s future and the future of professional football in the city.

Mr Yule lashed out as all 43 city councillors prepared to vote on whether plans to build training facilities and a community stadium at Calder Park – which would be used by the club and Highland League side Cove Rangers – should be approved.

The Pittodrie chief has personally delivered a letter, drafted by both clubs, to councillors asking them not to back council leader Mr Crockett and Cllr Young, who want the plans for Calder Park binned.

Mr Yule admitted a ‘no’ vote would also kill-off Aberdeen FC’s plans to move to a new stadium nearby at Loirston Loch and warned that would put the club’s ability to continue as a full-time club under threat.

[maverick sheep]

Councillors vote 28-15 in favour of hearing the Loirston development sites application in private.

[Kowalski]

It seems the Labour council are intent on binning a number of projects (3rd Don crossing, AFC's new stadium, City Gardens Project).

 

No wonder nothing ever gets built in this city.  Its the same councillors who have delivered very little over the last 30 years that keep getting voted back in!

[glasgow sheep]

It seems the Labour council are intent on binning a number of projects (3rd Don crossing, AFC's new stadium, City Gardens Project).

 

No wonder nothing ever gets built in this city.  Its the same councillors who have delivered very little over the last 30 years that keep getting voted back in!

 

Labour were voted out last time after running the council into the ground and got back in, in part, due to their UTG stance.  Could spell disaster for the city given the mismanagement they inflicted on it in the past.

Re the Cove Rangers/Aberdeen stadium and training facilities at Calder Park, what is their objection to this?  They aren't putting any money into it as far as I'm aware.  Are there other developments associated with it they don't like?

[glasgow sheep]

Aberdeen City Council

Town House

Broad Street

Aberdeen

AB10 1FY

 

Our ref/ lmc_cpd/acc1

 

Dear Councillor, 20th August 2012

 

 

Subject: CALDER PARK COMMUNITY SPORTS COMPLEX

[This letter is issued on behalf of Cove Rangers FC and Aberdeen FC]

 

We refer to the full City Council meeting scheduled for 22nd August 2012 and in particular the motion being proposed by the Finance and Resources Committee to reject the proposal.

 

We request that this is reconsidered on the basis of the information that we outline below, alternatively at worst that only one element is granted, that is, an extension of time is granted so that we can carry out any further work required by the Administration and it’s officials, in conjunction with other parties e.g. SFA, Aberdeen Sports Village, etc;

 

Cove Rangers FC and Aberdeen FC have committed significant time, effort and cost in developing the business plan, facilities specifications and an operational strategy for the Calder Park community sports complex to the satisfaction of ACC officials and the former Administration, and as recently as January 2012 planning consent was approved for a revision of the facilities within the community complex to ensure that what was being built would deliver far greater benefit to the local community than the original plan. You may be aware that the Calder Park development site is zoned only for recreation and leisure and has been designed as part of the master planning exercise with the City Council and the John Muir Group over the past 3 years to be completely integral with the new AFC stadium development, and accordingly if the Calder Park project is stopped, then the new stadium is also killed off - as AFC is unable to implement their detailed planning consent because of stadium parking provisions and a shared second access within Calder Park. i.e. a 'no' vote will halt an estimated £40m reinvestment within the City, prevent the creation of further employment opportunities and have major implications on the future of AFC and Cove Rangers FC.

 

The main features, benefits and impact of Calder Park are identified below

 

1. The community sports complex will meet the need for top class sports, fitness and recreational facilities for the South of the City. This is an area with considerable growth planned, both housing and business over the next 15 years.

 

2. The enhanced sporting facilities will benefit each of the stakeholders i.e. local Kincorth, Altens, Cove communities, Cove Rangers FC and AFC.

 

3. Community facilities to be provided will be at no cost to the City Council, capital and/ or revenue because the project funding of c. £7m for Calder Park sports complex, along with all operational funding, will be provided via AFC / Cove Rangers FC

 

4. The provision of training facilities adjacent to the new AFC stadium will provide an opportunity for a step-change enabling AFC to expand and deliver their 'best-in-class' Community Program, together with the benefits this provides to the City [and Shire] Education, Health / Fitness and Drugs programs

 

5. Calder Park has significant importance to AFC's future youth development program, because bringing through our own top class young players via a youth soccer academy is the only way forward for the Club. The SFA have been aware - and have been very supportive - of our plans for Calder Park from the outset, and their CEO [stewart Regan] has now clarified the position they believe to be correct for the City of Aberdeen i.e. collaboration between the main stakeholders in the project.

 

6. The creation of training facilities, adjacent to the new AFC stadium will play a key role in AFC continuing to

attract International games, football and rugby to City - such as Pittodrie has done over the last few years,

but we will be unable to continue to do this because of more stringent UEFA stadium licensing requirements

in the future.

 

7. AFC currently has a 5-year business plan with the new stadium a central part of this plan. The delivery of a

new Stadium is a vital component to the Club’s future ambitions and vision for the future, and without the

prospect of a new stadium it is very difficult to see a bright future for the Club in the present economic

climate, where continued support from our bankers will prove very challenging to secure.

 

8. Cove Rangers FC currently operates under national club licensing requirements and they may not be allowed

to participate in the Highland League, and will certainly be denied the opportunity to progress in a

restructured Scottish football setup. A similar scenario exists also for AFC whereby unless AFC redevelops

Pittodrie to meet the required UEFA standards, which is neither fundable or viable (because of land

constraints), or AFC relocates to Loirston, there is a very high risk that AFC would be unable to participate in

European football unless we played such games in either Edinburgh or Glasgow, which is surely an

unacceptable scenario for the City of Aberdeen and/ or AFC supporters.

 

9. Discussions have taken place between Cove Rangers, AFC and Aberdeen Sports Village with a view to the

community sports complex at Calder Park being operated under the auspices of ASV, with potential

economies of scale available from a shared / proven infrastructure.

 

10. As previously stated at the outset of this letter, we would hope every Council member can see the merits of

voting in support of the proposal, and at the very least support an extension of time for this development, to

provide an opportunity for Cove Rangers FC and Aberdeen FC to come together with Aberdeen City Council

officials to review the current plans and facilities due to be delivered at Calder Park, with the aim of ensuring

that we collectively deliver the most appropriate sporting and recreational facilities for the main

stakeholders i.e. the local Kincorth / Altens / Cove and Loirston communities, Cove Rangers FC, Aberdeen

City Council and Aberdeen FC.

 

In view of the above information, we would respectfully ask each City Council member to fully consider the bigger

picture for Aberdeen when allocating their vote on this issue on the 22nd August. We also trust and expect that

there will be a free vote allocated to each Council member such is the overall importance of this development to the

local community, the iconic new stadium and the future of Cove Rangers FC and Aberdeen FC, both of whom add

considerable value and profile to the City in varying ways.

It is entirely inconceivable that the City of Aberdeen could be left without a professional football team participating

in the Scottish game in future, but this is precisely the potential outcome of a ‘no’ vote for the continuation of the

Calder Park sports complex development at the full Council meeting this week

 

 

Yours sincerely

Keith Moorhouse Stewart Milne

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Stunning. Fucking stunning.

 

Just wtf the fuck has Barney Rubble got a problem with?

[Penfold]

A no to this kills off the stadium we've been planning for how many years because of a shared access road? GTF. Milne knows this is going to be voted against and is using it to cover up his failure to secure funding for the stadium.

[glasgow sheep]

A no to this kills off the stadium we've been planning for how many years because of a shared access road? GTF. Milne knows this is going to be voted against and is using it to cover up his failure to secure funding for the stadium.

Really?

What are the reasons for the council to consider blocking this?

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Milne knows this is going to be voted against and is using it to cover up his failure to secure funding for the stadium.

 

I know this is unlikely but here goes, source?

[Edinburghdon]

A no to this kills off the stadium we've been planning for how many years because of a shared access road? GTF. Milne knows this is going to be voted against and is using it to cover up his failure to secure funding for the stadium.

 

 

Aye, it's all Milnes fault...

 

[Penfold]

Council have voted against Calder Park.