New stadium thread

[maverick sheep]

i wasn't aware due diligence was something that could happen more than once. surely that's a contradiction in terms?!

 

Interesting that they'd mention the private landowners. Must have had an offer that sounds viable or surely it'd be pointless to raise.

[tom_widdows]

perhaps said private landowners are looking to make a profit on sites they had thought would be snapped up for housing/ commercial developments but have had next to fuck all and are watching their investment value plummet ergo they want a quick sale

also could be they are pissed off at the council and would see it as a nice big GIRFUY

[bloo_toon_red]

City and Shire councils are very keen to push areas of land to the north of the city to kick-start the Energetica project.  City council very recently put to market a very large site in Bridge of Don, I think the desire is that it is related to Energetica and AECC.  The location of it is pretty good in terms of accessibility, and particularly if and when the bypass is built.  There are plans to ditch some retail element at Denmore (B&Q/General George/CarpetRight) in favour of a large supermarket (Sainsburys has been mentioned) in a concerted effort to stimulate the gateway site coming into the city on the A90 at Murcar - the idea is for a new Arnhall-type set-up.  Relatively minor infrastructure upgrades would be needed here to accommodate a stadium and it would be another box ticked in terms of reasoning for the AWPR.

[Tyrant]

City and Shire councils are very keen to push areas of land to the north of the city to kick-start the Energetica project.  City council very recently put to market a very large site in Bridge of Don, I think the desire is that it is related to Energetica and AECC.  The location of it is pretty good in terms of accessibility, and particularly if and when the bypass is built.  There are plans to ditch some retail element at Denmore (B&Q/General George/CarpetRight) in favour of a large supermarket (Sainsburys has been mentioned) in a concerted effort to stimulate the gateway site coming into the city on the A90 at Murcar - the idea is for a new Arnhall-type set-up.  Relatively minor infrastructure upgrades would be needed here to accommodate a stadium and it would be another box ticked in terms of reasoning for the AWPR.

 

 

I'd be delighted if the new stadium was built there.

[Madbadteacher]

As long as there are some decent watering holes nearby!

[mizer]

City and Shire councils are very keen to push areas of land to the north of the city to kick-start the Energetica project.  City council very recently put to market a very large site in Bridge of Don, I think the desire is that it is related to Energetica and AECC.  The location of it is pretty good in terms of accessibility, and particularly if and when the bypass is built.  There are plans to ditch some retail element at Denmore (B&Q/General George/CarpetRight) in favour of a large supermarket (Sainsburys has been mentioned) in a concerted effort to stimulate the gateway site coming into the city on the A90 at Murcar - the idea is for a new Arnhall-type set-up.  Relatively minor infrastructure upgrades would be needed here to accommodate a stadium and it would be another box ticked in terms of reasoning for the AWPR.

 

Aye but when will the AWPR be completed?

[glasgow sheep]

Aye but when will the AWPR be completed?

 

If?

 

Anyway DST have put out a survey for you all to complete (see below).  I think it is a bit shit tbh, so have emailed a lengthy rant to them about the whole thing (the stadium issue, not their survey) .  Their email address is also below

 

The various matters related to AFC’s stadium, current and future remain very emotive for Dons fans. The City Council’s decision regarding the training ground complex at Cove, and the subsequent statements by the club has brought the whole issue to the fore again. DST is keen to meet with club officials to understand the situation better and what happens next, and so, we are very keen to be able to represent the views of DST members in these discussions.

 

The last time we sought your opinions on the stadium situation was when we were the AFC Trust but now, as DST, we have over 1,000 more members and we would like to get the thoughts of this much bigger group.

 

Accordingly, we have compiled a short survey (less than 1 minute) containing a few questions that we’d like to get your thoughts on.

 

http://kwiksurveys.com/app/rendersurvey.asp?sid=83oaj4897n8rf0911600

 

We encourage you to email us with any further comments you would like to express at info@donssupporterstogether.com.

 

If there is anyone else you know who would like to have their views heard, but is not a DST member, then please let him/her know about this and that they can join quickly at www.donssupporterstogether.com/membership and then complete the survey.

 

Thank you for your assistance in the survey.

[tom_widdows]

That really is a shit survey. Its actually not worth even completing

[dave_min]

City and Shire councils are very keen to push areas of land to the north of the city to kick-start the Energetica project.  City council very recently put to market a very large site in Bridge of Don, I think the desire is that it is related to Energetica and AECC.  The location of it is pretty good in terms of accessibility, and particularly if and when the bypass is built.  There are plans to ditch some retail element at Denmore (B&Q/General George/CarpetRight) in favour of a large supermarket (Sainsburys has been mentioned) in a concerted effort to stimulate the gateway site coming into the city on the A90 at Murcar - the idea is for a new Arnhall-type set-up.  Relatively minor infrastructure upgrades would be needed here to accommodate a stadium and it would be another box ticked in terms of reasoning for the AWPR.

 

Fuck yeah!

[Drewsome]

Part of the problem, though, if I'm believing what I hear, is that a lot of the frontage of Pittodrie (main and Merkland) is "listed"?

 

By "listed" I take you mean Historical Monument or something? You can reference Toronto's Air Canada Centre (built to include the Historical #1Post Office building.

[tom_widdows]

By "listed" I take you mean Historical Monument or something? You can reference Toronto's Air Canada Centre (built to include the Historical #1Post Office building.

 

Including/ converting is one thing. Demolishing and rebuilding is another.

Anyway as BTR says no part of pittodrie is listed

[Superstar Tradesman]

Oh-yay!  More surveys for folk to decide what they want that'll be pushed aside when it comes to not building it.

 

As for not being able to redevelop Pittodrie; what a pile of steaming horse shite.  There are huge areas at the back of the Dick Donald or South Stand that could be utilised and there are certainly a lot more stadium nationwide that are hemmed in a lot closer than Pittodrie that have managed.  It's all smoke and mirrors. 

[Kowalski]

Oh-yay!  More surveys for folk to decide what they want that'll be pushed aside when it comes to not building it.

 

As for not being able to redevelop Pittodrie; what a pile of steaming horse shite.  There are huge areas at the back of the Dick Donald or South Stand that could be utilised and there are certainly a lot more stadium nationwide that are hemmed in a lot closer than Pittodrie that have managed.  It's all smoke and mirrors. 

 

I don't think the Dick Donald stand is one of the ones needing redevelopment though!

[tom_widdows]

Oh-yay!  More surveys for folk to decide what they want that'll be pushed aside when it comes to not building it.

 

As for not being able to redevelop Pittodrie; what a pile of steaming horse shite.  There are huge areas at the back of the Dick Donald or South Stand that could be utilised and there are certainly a lot more stadium nationwide that are hemmed in a lot closer than Pittodrie that have managed.  It's all smoke and mirrors. 

 

Name those stadiums

[manc_don]

Name those new stadiums

 

[maverick sheep]

quadruple the size of the dick donald - make it the single biggest stand in the history of football - and build a gazeebo away end like hamilton, then flats around the other sides. people will travel from all over the world to get pictures of the humungous dick, and we can charge people for the chance to see it.

 

wouldn't really affect match day experience considering everyone's already in the dick donald

[mizer]

Why the fuck are we moving again?

 

Is it not just finances of how much the land is worth? Pitch is big enough to cope with UEFA regulations right?

 

Re-build the stands so they are steep and near the pitch like Tynecastle.

 

Merkand is 100ft deep, 70 feet for the Main stand and 125 feet for the South Stand. Compared to Tynecastle the Roseburn (away) stand is 85 feet deep and the Wheatfield is 90feet  deep.

[Tyrant]

Why the fuck are we moving again?

 

Is it not just finances of how much the land is worth? Pitch is big enough to cope with UEFA regulations right?

 

Re-build the stands so they are steep and near the pitch like Tynecastle.

 

Merkand is 100ft deep, 70 feet for the Main stand and 125 feet for the South Stand. Compared to Tynecastle the Roseburn (away) stand is 85 feet deep and the Wheatfield is 90feet  deep.

 

 

Is that the same Tynecastle that saw Hearts have to move some of their European games to Murrayfield because it was against some regulation?

[tom_widdows]

Why the fuck are we moving again?

 

Is it not just finances of how much the land is worth? Pitch is big enough to cope with UEFA regulations right?

 

Re-build the stands so they are steep and near the pitch like Tynecastle.

 

Merkand is 100ft deep, 70 feet for the Main stand and 125 feet for the South Stand. Compared to Tynecastle the Roseburn (away) stand is 85 feet deep and the Wheatfield is 90feet  deep.

Pittodries pitch is 100m x 66m. UEFA rules actually require the pitch to be 105m x 68m for champions league and its only a matter of time before they insist on that for Europa league games. They've already lengthened it once which fucked up the RDS upper tier and there any much scope to go any further.

 

Where do you propose the club get the finances as to pay for the redevelopment? The only money the club has is tied up in the land Pittodrie is built on. We are like those pensioners who live in expensive houses but cant afford to pay for the heating or repairs.

 

it is the fact that 3 of the 4 stands are accessed from public roads which are basically rendered impassible for long periods on match days. Since these roads provide access to residential properties the police cant actually close them on match days. Tynecastle itself sits back from Macloed street Gorgie Road, and Wheatfield Terrace and has a linked concourse areas underneath and to the back of side of each of the new stands which allow for fast evacuation into controlled areas (ie not straight onto an emergency services access road).

 

The stands are only part of the problem with Pittodrie. All large buildings require adequete infrastructure and the pittodrie site just doesnt have it without drastically reducing the capacity.

 

[bloo_toon_red]

 

Is that the same Tynecastle that saw Hearts have to move some of their European games to Murrayfield because it was against some regulation?

Took the words right out of my mouth there.  There's none so blind as them that wont see.

 

There are no stadiums in the UK that have a capacity of c20,000 that have been built recently (in the last 5 years), that are "hemmed-in", and in accordance with the Green Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds.

 

Let's make this overwhelmingly simple:

 

Who would be happy with a Pittodrie Stadium capacity of around 10,000 people?  Because (again...) that's what you'll get in order to meet current regulations.  Most of you will be aware of the Hillsborough Disaster and the subsequent Taylor Report.  The recommendations which are generally enforced through Building Standards are contained within the Green Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds.  Anyone who wants to read this, I have a copy and I can email it to you.  It is a weighty document, but only if and when you've read it, and/or worked within a technical discipline within the town planning or construction industry, can you really hold any sort of respected opinion on it, so to be blunt, stop greetin like bairns and accept we have to move.

 

Anyway, I got some info this morning from someone intimately involved in the Calder Park situation relating to the planning decision.  Penfold touched upon the issue earlier and it seems to have been pretty much glossed over, but the upshot of it is that the club are not blameless in this situation at all and that there is presently a very strong likelihood that they will re-visit the Loirston scheme again.

[glasgow sheep]

 

Anyway, I got some info this morning from someone intimately involved in the Calder Park situation relating to the planning decision.  Penfold touched upon the issue earlier and it seems to have been pretty much glossed over, but the upshot of it is that the club are not blameless in this situation at all and that there is presently a very strong likelihood that they will re-visit the Loirston scheme again.

 

What?  HE said that the Stadium wasn't reliant on Calder Park despite the club stating that to be the case.  I still don't know why the council turned down Calder Park, is there an explanation out there?

[mizer]

Bloody hell - little did I think a thought I had while having my morning tea would result in such a backlash 

 

 

Is that the same Tynecastle that saw Hearts have to move some of their European games to Murrayfield because it was against some regulation?

 

Think about it - why did I go look at the depths of the comparative stands.....reduce the area of the Merkland and South to fit in an expanded pitch.

 

 

Pittodries pitch is 100m x 66m. UEFA rules actually require the pitch to be 105m x 68m for champions league and its only a matter of time before they insist on that for Europa league games. They've already lengthened it once which fucked up the RDS upper tier and there any much scope to go any further.

 

So to comply we need to find 16 ft from the length (make it 20ft to move the pitch back from the RDS) would leave a space of 80 feet only 5 feet less than the Roseburn stand. The 7 feet required across can come from the South easily.

 

 

Where do you propose the club get the finances as to pay for the redevelopment? The only money the club has is tied up in the land Pittodrie is built on. We are like those pensioners who live in expensive houses but cant afford to pay for the heating or repairs.

 

Where the fuck are they getting the money for a new stadium? Selling Pittodrie is not getting them anywhere near what they expected and is no where near enough. Doing an extension is far cheaper than building from new!

 

 

it is the fact that 3 of the 4 stands are accessed from public roads which are basically rendered impassible for long periods on match days. Since these roads provide access to residential properties the police cant actually close them on match days. Tynecastle itself sits back from Macloed street Gorgie Road, and Wheatfield Terrace and has a linked concourse areas underneath and to the back of side of each of the new stands which allow for fast evacuation into controlled areas (ie not straight onto an emergency services access road).

 

The stands are only part of the problem with Pittodrie. All large buildings require adequete infrastructure and the pittodrie site just doesnt have it without drastically reducing the capacity.

 

You are far more of an expert than I at this than I but there is always round things like this - for instance the Aviva in Dublin where the access to the far side is all done subterranean (and bloody confusing).

 

Most of you will be aware of the Hillsborough Disaster and the subsequent Taylor Report.  The recommendations which are generally enforced through Building Standards are contained within the Green Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds.  Anyone who wants to read this, I have a copy and I can email it to you.  It is a weighty document, but only if and when you've read it, and/or worked within a technical discipline within the town planning or construction industry, can you really hold any sort of respected opinion on it, so to be blunt, stop greetin like bairns and accept we have to move.

 

Sorry, I should apologise for thinking about staying at Pittodrie, some nice facts contained in the above speech would have sufficed without the vitriol! And no I don't want a copy. 

[tom_widdows]

request - please start using the metric system

 

Yes there is always a way around things like that. Its called have bottomless pit of money and in the case of the Aviva stadium, a much larger site with the option to rotate your stadium 90degrees. Id really love to see someone try and put together a scheme for a redeveloped pittodrie which involved underground tunnels for crowd circulation. The structural design headaches of carrying out such an operation on sandy soil in such a built up area would be entertaining enough before they even got to the M & E issues, fire escapes, DDA access, Emergency vehicle access.

 

[mizer]

request - please start using the metric system

 

 

But is not everything on a football park in imperial?

 

"FFS Vernon I cant beleive you hit the post from inside the 5.4864m box"

 

"If Chris Clark scores from outside the 16.4592m box I will eat my hat"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glasgow sheep]

Surely the other point is to have more facilities that can make the club money out with a Saturday (sic) which you're idea would never do, infact it would probably reduce that income Mizer.

Pittodrie may have been developable (is that a word) at some point but sadly it isn't now