New stadium thread

[rocket_scientist]

Obviously I'm not going to even attempt a proper reply to any of your posts because it'd give me a headache trying to work out what's genuine and what are coded cries for help, but keep them coming as they are thoroughly entertaining reads. Especially the suggestion I'm part of the stadium build.

 

You misinterpret. You're part of the problem, not the stadium build. You are consistent in your posts. The record doesn't lie. It's not born from natural optimism nor are you one of the blind fools. Your agenda is see through.

[RicoS321]

But how many are walking or using public transport to get to Pittodrie now? I'd guess the majority still use car. It's an Aberdeen city problem that the transport options are so poor, rather than an Aberdeen FC one. The club have to do what's best for them and Kingsford was £1.1m to purchase compared to the extortionate costs of building in the city centre, or the £15m shortfall of staying at Pittodrie.

 

I grew up in Westhill and made that Westhill-Pittodrie journey every second week for the best part of 15 years. Not once did we consider not going because of the distance and I'd be surprised if that many are put off making the opposite journey.

 

Like I say, the location doesn't concern me. It has it's flaws of course but they don't keep me awake at night. The important thing is it's a Groupama Arena or Euroborg being built there, and not a Brentford.

 

If you grew up in westhill then you should know just how unappealing a location it is. You went to pittodrie because it was in Aberdeen and that's the contract you signed when becoming a fan. You were drawn into the bigger city, because that's what cities do. That's why it's completely logical to never give up that location. It is not the city's job to cater the public transport system towards a location in the middle of fucking nowhere. Read the news, every single city is attempting to reduce car journeys by increasing public transport, congestion charges, banning diesels etc. Aberdeen might always be a bit behind the curve, but it's only going in one direction. Our kids will be horrified in 20 years time when they see what AFCs plans were against the backdrop of attempting to reduce car travel. All infrastructure links point to the city centre. Nobody is putting on the number 205 fae Seaton to westhill, or cove to westhill or anywhere to west fucking hill. Because there is literally nothing there.

 

So the important thing is not the building. In any business, unless you're an architect. The importance is location, location, location to quote a shite TV program.

 

Different topic, but I'm looking forward to the new conference League .

 

Brondby are around fourth or fifth at the moment in Denmark. Would be a decent fixture that.

 

Why? Who the fuck are brondby to us? European football is great because there are few games and there's only one chance every year to do something in it. Diluting it with some wanky manufactured pish sounds horrendous. Although, I'm happy that we're just of differing opinion here, I'm not suggesting you're wrong (unlike the stadium, where you are!).

[Panda]

If you grew up in westhill then you should know just how unappealing a location it is. You went to pittodrie because it was in Aberdeen and that's the contract you signed when becoming a fan. You were drawn into the bigger city, because that's what cities do.

 

No. Had the stadium been in Portlethen when I was growing up, we'd have made the same number of journeys there too.

 

That's why it's completely logical to never give up that location. It is not the city's job to cater the public transport system towards a location in the middle of fucking nowhere. Read the news, every single city is attempting to reduce car journeys by increasing public transport, congestion charges, banning diesels etc. Aberdeen might always be a bit behind the curve, but it's only going in one direction. Our kids will be horrified in 20 years time when they see what AFCs plans were against the backdrop of attempting to reduce car travel. All infrastructure links point to the city centre. Nobody is putting on the number 205 fae Seaton to westhill, or cove to westhill or anywhere to west fucking hill. Because there is literally nothing there.

 

I would guess it's not impossible to set up a traffic system that doesn't just drive all traffic towards the city centre. As cities expand and the city centre becomes more packed, new infrastructures generally have to be built elsewhere and traffic systems adjust. I've read many people say the new stadium should have been in Dyce. Well taking the new TECA as an example, how many people walked to the Gerry Cinnamon gig from union street?

 

Did Aberdeen City Council not put up considerations for new bus networks recently that would link Dyce railway and Kingswells P&R, which looked like pre-planning for Kingsford.

 

Here's a link here, though I do remember reading something that had more ideas in it but can't seem to find it:- https://news.aberdeencity.gov.uk/transport-schemes-identified-for-aberdeen-cross-city-connections/

 

Will it all be adequate? Who knows. They won't eradicate car use but at the same time it's not going to be 100% of fans using cars either. Like I say, Kingsford wasn't my first choice and it was never the club's either. But I can't see it being the disaster some seem to think it'll be. I'm more concerned about the standard of stadium that actually gets built there.

 

 

Why? Who the fuck are brondby to us? European football is great because there are few games and there's only one chance every year to do something in it. Diluting it with some wanky manufactured pish sounds horrendous. Although, I'm happy that we're just of differing opinion here, I'm not suggesting you're wrong (unlike the stadium, where you are!).

 

What can I say, I like seeing Aberdeen playing in Europe, and a group stage of Aberdeen, Brondby, Rijeka and Maribor might not have the glitz and glamour of the Champions League, but it'd be enough to pique my interest.

[rocket_scientist]

If you grew up in westhill then you should know just how unappealing a location it is.

 

All infrastructure links point to the city centre. Nobody is putting on the number 205 fae Seaton to westhill, or cove to westhill or anywhere to west fucking hill. Because there is literally nothing there.

 

This made me chortle. You're locationist, or siteist. But I'm not a fan of Westhill either. A soulless dormitory.

[ayrshire_don74]

Some news outlets stating Main being offered in exchange plus $ for Kennedy... one wonders why the fck this useless waste of skin was signed in the first place

[TheDeeDon]

 

Did Aberdeen City Council not put up considerations for new bus networks recently that would link Dyce railway and Kingswells P&R, which looked like pre-planning for Kingsford.

 

 

I'm not allowed to drive to to a medical condition and have to rely on buses to get out to Westhill for work from the City and can assure you the service is very poor.  One of the said links has already been trialed and failed with the service having been withdrawn before Xmas. The Council just hasn't the funds to fund bus routes and the operators won't touch it as they won't be profitable without Council funding.

 

A great place for a training facility, but not a football stadium.

[RicoS321]

Top tier to close next season with capacity being reduced to 15.5k. paving the way for reducing Kingsford capacity? I assume so. I'd take a permanent 15.5k stadium at pittodrie over a 17-18k at Kingsford

[Ten Caat]

The way I read it is that for the majority of games the top tier will be closed but should there be evidence of enough demand for certain games they will open it on an individual case basis? ( presumably if we get off to a half decent start it will open for the arse cheeks matches and possibly if we get through to ELQ3/4 and draw a relatively big name)

[RicoS321]

Probably, although Cormack seemed to suggest it was about data gathering for the new stadium. Working out what works etc in terms of safe standing and the like. It sounded like it would be used as a barometer for Kingsford capacity to me. He was very non committal when asked about it.

[TheDeeDon]

I'd take a permanent 15.5k stadium at pittodrie over a 17-18k at Kingsford

 

I'd second that. With another league title heading to Parkhead and nobody bar the zombie club really in a position to challenge for the title, I just don't see where our new fans are going to come from to fill anything bigger as bar a few occassional games, most people just aren't interested.

 

A pity we didn't have Cormack onboard before Rangers went bust, as he might have pushed for the real change needed to our game.

 

He wants 11k ST for next season, I think only a cup win would get us near that figure.

 

 

[Panda]

Cutting capacity to 15.5k is fine when you still have the potential to sell 20k for a big fixture. They won't have that choice if they build a smaller stadium at Kingsford.

 

The smaller capacity thing seems to be coming from this height restriction they apparently have at Kingsford which limits how big they can make it. Rather than answering questions on that, they're trying to convince everyone that we should bin 20,000 crowds in favour of smaller ones as it apparently improves the atmosphere.

 

I like a lot of what Cormack says and have been happy to see the initiative with the Merkland (can we stop calling it "red shed" though. When was it ever called the shed? It's not Tannadice) but I think mine and his vision for the new stadium differ greatly.

[Elgindon]

A bit early to assume theyre trying to convince us of a smaller capacity at Kingsford.Have we not been closing the upper RDS since before any Kingsford height issue? May be as simple as reducing costs/increasing atmosphere

[RicoS321]

A bit early to assume theyre trying to convince us of a smaller capacity at Kingsford.Have we not been closing the upper RDS since before any Kingsford height issue? May be as simple as reducing costs/increasing atmosphere

 

Cormack was asked specifically about it in his interview and he said they were "gathering data" in order to make sure they got the new stadium right. I'm assuming that data gathering exercise will also cover the fact that it's in fucking Westhill, which appears to have gone unnoticed. 

[rocket_scientist]

The snake oil salesman wants to "improve the fan experience". In order to even think in these terms, he needs to understand what the fans want. He's all about "the atmosphere". As a former fan, unlikely to ever return, I was all about "the product". Still am. By that I mean the football team. That's at least what Milne identified (25 years ago at the meeting at the Capitol) as the most important aspect of AFC plc, even though he lied about it being his priority.

 

Yes I agree with the women in football (BBC Scotland documentary this week) that football needs to change. Budge and Dempster etc. speak with good sense. Like Cormack though, who's been in the US too long, these clowns miss the essence of the football and try to apply "helicopter vision" and standard business thinking to a situation they don't fully understand. Not all customers want the same thing. We Scots aren't as stupid as Americans. The caterers know more about the football fans in this country than this new breed of chairpeople do. They serve us shit because we don't go to Pittodrie for the pies. As Rab C Nesbitt said, we're scum and proud of it.

[Panda]

A bit early to assume theyre trying to convince us of a smaller capacity at Kingsford.Have we not been closing the upper RDS since before any Kingsford height issue? May be as simple as reducing costs/increasing atmosphere

 

At the fan meetings last year, Cormack said they were considering a smaller stadium of around 17,000. Something to do with rail seating being more expensive, and he asked fans to give a show of hands over whether they wanted a smaller stadium with rail seating or a 20,000 one without. It all sounds like another smoke screen, trying to convince the fans it was their idea, rather than explain why we're building somewhere that supposedly should be a blank canvas yet has restrictions in place on height and, presumably, capacity. And of course the lack of travel options mean the bigger the capacity, the bigger the problem. The stadium application already suggests the Old Firm would have 3,000 tickets - around double their current allocation. If they all arrive by supporters bus that helps solve a lot of your public transport problem.

 

For years the club have mentioned Hearts when Tynecastle was 17,000, and how that smaller capacity helped lead to sell-outs and a scramble for tickets, like it was some sort of successful operation that needed copied. Forgetting of course that Hearts spent millions on increasing the capacity, whereas we're spending millions on decreasing ours.

 

[Elgindon]

Fair do's min,wasnt aware of all that.I do think a capacity of circa 18'000 suits us looking at our crowd averages down the years.Hearts crowds may have built up as a result of their initial crowd restriction.Folks therefore getting caught up in a ticket clamour > getting into the habit of going regular >and therefore able to increase capacity at a later date?

  Another reason for liking the 18'000 capacity is weve often had crowds teetering on the 10k mark over the years,...aye,actually in the stadium.I would rather be in a stadium that seemed to be more than half full than less,and therefore wouldnt increase even if it was possible

[RicoS321]

I expect that there's a fairly substantial cost saving in reducing the capacity too.

 

I'd give it another 5 years, see if there's any Scottish fitba left after the corona virus and then apply to re-develop Pittodrie. Milne can have the Kingsford site for hooses.

[Slim]

Take the opportunity to build something mental.

 

4 distinct two-tier stands, bottom tier bigger than top tier, each with a roof that jacks up and down to hide the top tier if not in use.

 

Standard configuration (14,000 seats - 4.5k along the pitch, 2.5k at each end), single tier all the way round, then can lift the roof on each individual stand as required. Maximum capacity 22,000 (top tier along the pitch 2.5k, at each end 1.5k).

 

Recycle the parts off old decommissioned jack-up rigs, have ourselves a sustainable, dynamic stadium with a bit of character.

[RicoS321]

Take the opportunity to build something mental.

 

4 distinct two-tier stands, bottom tier bigger than top tier, each with a roof that jacks up and down to hide the top tier if not in use.

 

Standard configuration (14,000 seats - 4.5k along the pitch, 2.5k at each end), single tier all the way round, then can lift the roof on each individual stand as required. Maximum capacity 22,000 (top tier along the pitch 2.5k, at each end 1.5k).

 

Recycle the parts off old decommissioned jack-up rigs, have ourselves a sustainable, dynamic stadium with a bit of character. on Pittodrie Street

 

FIFY.

[tom_widdows]

 

In a world where money is no object and Planning regulations dont apply

[Panda]

Since McInnes has taken charge, Aberdeen have sold 18,000 tickets or more for a home match 15 times. Four of them were last season. Bear in mind one of our most popular games v Rangers wasn't even on the fixture list for four years.

 

This season the crowds have been disappointing. Biggest 16,400 v Hearts 3-2 game, swelled by a rare decent away support from Hearts. The biggest Aberdeen support was 15,200 v Rijeka.

 

But, the potential is clearly there to bring in 18,000+ crowds regularly, and some of those games mentioned above were sell outs. And I always argue Pittodrie is a difficult ground to sell out - not because of lack of fans, but because of the make up of the ground. Once around 15,000 are sold, the seats that are left tend to be Merkland (currently only available to families, though granted that changes next season), an uncovered section Y, and the upper deck where you struggle to see the goal line at that side ever since the pitch was lengthened so it essentially has become restricted view.

 

If they build a good stadium, with your rail seating etc, even out at Kingsford I don't think they'd struggle to sell 20,000 for big games. And to me that's what you build to - your potential. Not locking fans out who would want to go - whether they are fair weather ones or not.

 

If you're going to build a new stadium, especially if you're moving the club from their natural home and out into the countryside, then do it right.

[Ten Caat]

Agree with Panda. I could probably live with it being 17k initially to test the waters......no one really knows how much the move to Kingsford will affect our support. Some hardliners are saying they'll never go ever. On the other hand, supporters in the west end and in much of the Shire will find it much more convenient. I'd imagine the first season, crowds will be artificially high due to the novelty of a new stadium. Once it settles down we will know more in seasons 2,3 and 4 as to how it's really affected things, if at all.

 

Of course putting a successful side on the park would surely be the best way to get your average crowds up. As long as the ground is built in such a way that we could simply (and economically) add an extension to raise the capacity to 20k, maybe even 22k, then I'd be comfortable starting with 17k.

 

[DantheDon]

Does anyone think that we would be able to sell more tickets in the event that they were cheaper? I'm staring to see a bit of movement among fans for cheaper tickets so if we get to that situation and have a smaller capacity surely that would screw us. I don't think its beyond us to get 20,000 fans regularly if there is a better match day experience and if we could put a successful team on the park is there anything to say it couldn't be more. Cant get behind reducing the capacity for these reasons.

[tom_widdows]

Does anyone think that we would be able to sell more tickets in the event that they were cheaper? I'm staring to see a bit of movement among fans for cheaper tickets so if we get to that situation and have a smaller capacity surely that would screw us. I don't think its beyond us to get 20,000 fans regularly if there is a better match day experience and if we could put a successful team on the park is there anything to say it couldn't be more. Cant get behind reducing the capacity for these reasons.

 

Supply and demand doesnt seem to apply for scottish football. The amount of money you can shell out for one game would make you think every match was 95% sold out from the get go.

But then again given the world is full of companies that make massive losses each year and yet still carry on (Uber springs to mind) without consequence the idea that you should live within your means no longer seems to apply. No wonder every single country in the world is TRILLIONS in debt.

 

The cheaper tickets discussion could really do with at least one club (ideally 3) actually trying it for several seasons (not just one like was done with season tickets in the Skovdahl era), and also being sensible about it (not like Hearts in the Romanov era).

 

Perhaps if multiple teams were prepared to try it each could adopt its own personal model

 

Team 1 - all individual match tickets are £10 no matter what age you are. Season tickets based on the £10 price but it works out you get 3 or 4 'free' games)

 

Team 2 - Individual match tickets are £15 for adults, £5 for kids under 18. Season tickets priced accordingly

 

Team 3 - Individual match tickets start at £10 adult, £5 kids under 18 and go on sale several weeks in advance. Each week the prices go up a certain amount until it reached an on the day price of say £20 & £10 thereby encouraging fans to buy early.

This model would be slighly more complicated in terms of working out season ticket prices but fairly sure it could be worked out

 

I seriously doubt AFC would ever get 20,000 week in week out but the more fans you can get into the stadium each week the higher the chances of making extra money on Merchandise, Pies, Bovril etc.

 

I havent been to pittodrie for a few seasons now and a quick look at the ticket prices currently on the AFC website has made it clear it wont be top of my priority list anytime soon

 

Min £25 and Maximum £32. Im not skint (yet) but at that price Im happy just listening to the radio and watching the goals on the BBC website/ Youtube

[tom_widdows]

Daily Record (I know) claiming the new stadium is on hold indefinetly and capacity may need to be reduced.

 

Perhaps getting close to that magical 13500