New stadium thread

[Garlogie_Granite]

A touch patronising. I'd suggest that DD is more likely to be able to think for himself than those attracted to the shiny new thing for the first few years of its existence. Take me for instance: I've said I'll go to the Westhill arena when it's built. However, I'm also know that I wouldn't have travelled to Westhill during the Paterson, late Calderwood and McGhee eras. Whilst we may be replaced by others, you're very reliant on those "others" being as "hardcore" as the likes of me and donsdaft. That generational thing for us, that may or may not be acquired by those that come after. What I, and others, are saying is that we'll find it a lot easier to give up as there just isn't the same pull toward Westhill that makes the trip worthwhile. Hopefully Westhill will breed the next generation of super-fan, as folk like me and DD will need replaced when the time comes. It's clear that there is a very small window in which to do this, and anyone who understands the dynamics of Scottish fitba would probably realise that the odds of this aren't great. There is a good chance that the core support (let's say season ticket holders for sake of argument) will be less than current after ten years at the new stadium, and that is the measure it should be held to. Out of town developments are not the future.

What circular nonsense. It's all been said before, but for every toonser who can't bother their arse with that massive 6 miles trip from city centre, there's a teuchter (and a lot of toonsers tbf) for whom the new stadium will be a dream to get to/from by comparison to Pittodrie, and for whom the hassle (if your theory is to be believed) will have caused them to miss a few games during the Paterson, late Calderwood and McGhee eras.

[Jute]

You'll be missing out then, it'll be a shame for you, as there's nothing better than a modern fully enclosed stadium.

 

Really take it you have not been to Livingston and Paisley recently.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Really take it you have not been to Livingston and Paisley recently.

Proper stadiums, like we're building 

[RicoS321]

What circular nonsense. It's all been said before, but for every toonser who can't bother their arse with that massive 6 miles trip from city centre, there's a teuchter (and a lot of toonsers tbf) for whom the new stadium will be a dream to get to/from by comparison to Pittodrie, and for whom the hassle (if your theory is to be believed) will have caused them to miss a few games during the Paterson, late Calderwood and McGhee eras.

 

Do I have to look back through the thread to find the quote where you stated that you don't attend Pittodrie because of the hassle involved in the commute from Garlogie? I'm not quite sure what makes you think that the opposite won't be true? But you're really just backing up my point, I'm suggesting that the displacement of existing loyal fans must be replaced with a similar number of new fans. You clearly think that will be no problem, I don't. Basic foot-fall figures would suggest that out-of-sight-out-of-mind is more likely to occur in Westhill than in a city centre. Westhill as an attraction in itself holds absolutely zero. My wife isn't going to spend three hours in Costco or the magnificent Greggs and surrounding shops while I head to the fitba. It's basic logic really. My opinion is that in ten years time we will have a lower core support than we do now.

 

The point about McGhee, Paterson etc is about understanding the dynamics of Scottish fitba. Our crowds were significantly down in those years because the fitba was pish. Building a new stadium, with our level of support, is not suddenly going to turn us into league challengers. As long as the hun continue their slow but steadyish rise, then the dons will become more of a bit-part in the game and crowds will dwindle again. Indeed, if the scouse tink manages a return to the helicopter Sundays then the interest gained over the last few years will quickly diminish. We can afford that at Pittodrie, it's proven over a century that crowds can wain without permanent decline because it's still there and still visible. I don't believe that same robustness will exist at Westhill, unless something drastically changes on the way the city is designed and the stadium becomes enveloped in new building, developed in a completely new way (i.e. nae another Kingswells). I think that the opposite will occur in that the core support will be closer to that of Kilmarnock than Hearts or Hibs in ten years time (again, ignoring the undoubted initial large crowds, they will be a blip).

[tom_widdows]

Really take it you have not been to Livingston and Paisley recently.

Neither of those are fully enclosed.

The only current fully enclosed stadiums in scotland are celtic park and hampden

[donsdaft]

Rico is speaking a lot of sense here.

 

I've happily sailed through life being in a minority on 1 on many issues (often to be proved correct I might add)

 

However in this instance it's not just me.

 

In fact the most surprising of people have told me that they will probably pack it in if the move happens.

These are guys who have run supporters clubs etc.

 

I admit that most of these blokes, myself included, could hardly be described as the future of Aberdeen Football Club, but they are the present and have been the past.

 

So, if you think of us as the mannies in the bunnets then fair enough.

But us mannies have been loons who went to Pittodrie, fathers who took their kids to Pittodrie and now in many cases Grandas who take their grandchildren to Pittodrie.

 

Don't dismiss Rico's comments regarding "Greggs"

I imagine many men meet up with their wives after the game, go for a bar supper before driving home.

She's been shopping so 2 birds with one stone, you went to the match and you didn't have to go bloody shopping.

 

Anyway, it's all been said before and no one is listening anyway.

[RicoS321]

Rico is speaking a lot of sense here.

 

^^^This.

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Said this before but don't underestimate the number of fans that travel from all over Aberdeenshire on match days.

 

I do a three hour round trip to attend home games and to be honest, having a stadium bang in the middle of the city is a pain in the arse.  Being able to avoid the city centre congestion will make it a far easier commute and I'm sure there are many fans over the north east who feel the same.

 

Secondly, much of Pittodrie is a dump.  I normally sit in the Dick Donald but had a seat in the main stand at the weekend.  Went for a pish at half time - bloody hell, it's no different to when I was there in the 80s.  Hardly conducive to encouraging either youngsters or females to attend a game. 

 

Kids nowadays are spoilt by the facilities they get whenever they go to the cinema, bowling alleys etc and as a club we've got to move with the times to attract the youngsters.  We've got to see beyond the nostalgia and the auld mannies wi the bunnets and try to attract the next generation.

 

For some the location may not be ideal but the other options closer to the city centre have been investigated and discounted so it's either get behind it or stay living in the past.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunty]

Do I have to look back through the thread to find the quote where you stated that you don't attend Pittodrie because of the hassle involved in the commute from Garlogie? I'm not quite sure what makes you think that the opposite won't be true? But you're really just backing up my point, I'm suggesting that the displacement of existing loyal fans must be replaced with a similar number of new fans. You clearly think that will be no problem, I don't. Basic foot-fall figures would suggest that out-of-sight-out-of-mind is more likely to occur in Westhill than in a city centre. Westhill as an attraction in itself holds absolutely zero. My wife isn't going to spend three hours in Costco or the magnificent Greggs and surrounding shops while I head to the fitba. It's basic logic really. My opinion is that in ten years time we will have a lower core support than we do now.

 

The point about McGhee, Paterson etc is about understanding the dynamics of Scottish fitba. Our crowds were significantly down in those years because the fitba was pish. Building a new stadium, with our level of support, is not suddenly going to turn us into league challengers. As long as the hun continue their slow but steadyish rise, then the dons will become more of a bit-part in the game and crowds will dwindle again. Indeed, if the scouse tink manages a return to the helicopter Sundays then the interest gained over the last few years will quickly diminish. We can afford that at Pittodrie, it's proven over a century that crowds can wain without permanent decline because it's still there and still visible. I don't believe that same robustness will exist at Westhill, unless something drastically changes on the way the city is designed and the stadium becomes enveloped in new building, developed in a completely new way (i.e. nae another Kingswells). I think that the opposite will occur in that the core support will be closer to that of Kilmarnock than Hearts or Hibs in ten years time (again, ignoring the undoubted initial large crowds, they will be a blip).

 

 

But then you have a situation like tonight, good weather and a massive game (quoting Cosgrove who says massive about a dozen times in his interview) with Rangers, and the club is struggling to sell out. Hibs and Hearts I'm sure would have both sold out.

 

Now, possibly one of the reasons is McInnes revent approach to these games. But, another aspect will be the stadium and the complete lack of atmosphere. They improve that at Kingsford and they encourage more people along.

[donsdaft]

Places to go for a pish have to be improved.

Bloody hell, no wonder fitba is fucked.

 

Best place to go for a pish was through the fence at the back of the South Stand.

The Main Stand bogs are inside so therefore of a posher standard. (play the posh pish polka)

 

Nae good enough for the youngsters?

 

Shame .

[RicoS321]

 

But then you have a situation like tonight, good weather and a massive game (quoting Cosgrove who says massive about a dozen times in his interview) with Rangers, and the club is struggling to sell out. Hibs and Hearts I'm sure would have both sold out.

 

Now, possibly one of the reasons is McInnes revent approach to these games. But, another aspect will be the stadium and the complete lack of atmosphere. They improve that at Kingsford and they encourage more people along.

 

You could be correct, I have serious doubts though. I have no doubt that all those games will sell out in the first few seasons but in 10 years time, once the new thing has been wiped away, we'll not sell out Hibs and Hertz.

 

There are numerous examples of us selling out games against the hun in the last 2 decades at a Pittodrie that - as pointed out - hasn't changed, so it's a pretty invalid argument. It's a Tuesday night, and performances were poor this season. Had it been a Saturday at 3pm and we'd between them twice already this season there would have been a sell out. The atmosphere when Madison scored his free kick was pretty decent in recent times. It's a direct correlation between crowd size and excitement. The enclosed stands will definitely amplify it, I've certainly nae issue with the proposed design.

[RicoS321]

Said this before but don't underestimate the number of fans that travel from all over Aberdeenshire on match days.

 

Nobody is, but it's the wrong measure. The number of fans that don't travel from all over Aberdeenshire is the relevant statistic.

[Dunty]

Places to go for a pish have to be improved.

Bloody hell, no wonder fitba is fucked.

 

Best place to go for a pish was through the fence at the back of the South Stand.

The Main Stand bogs are inside so therefore of a posher standard. (play the posh pish polka)

 

Nae good enough for the youngsters?

 

Shame .

 

Do you not get the irony in saying the crap facilities doesn't put you off, while saying you won't go to a brand new stadium because it'll be slightly more hassle to get there?

[Garlogie_Granite]

Do I have to look back through the thread to find the quote where you stated that you don't attend Pittodrie because of the hassle involved in the commute from Garlogie? I'm not quite sure what makes you think that the opposite won't be true?

Did you even read what you've quoted there?

 

 

[Dunty]

You could be correct, I have serious doubts though. I have no doubt that all those games will sell out in the first few seasons but in 10 years time, once the new thing has been wiped away, we'll not sell out Hibs and Hertz.

 

There are numerous examples of us selling out games against the hun in the last 2 decades at a Pittodrie that - as pointed out - hasn't changed, so it's a pretty invalid argument. It's a Tuesday night, and performances were poor this season. Had it been a Saturday at 3pm and we'd between them twice already this season there would have been a sell out. The atmosphere when Madison scored his free kick was pretty decent in recent times. It's a direct correlation between crowd size and excitement. The enclosed stands will definitely amplify it, I've certainly nae issue with the proposed design.

 

I think a big part of the struggle to sell out this season is the atmosphere. You no longer say "Pittodrie will be rocking tonight" and really believe it will be. Will be a few "stand frees", some "come on you reds" at corners, and lots of booing. In the past you always wanted to be there over watching on TV because you can never recreate that big match atmosphere at home. Nowadays, it's often a saving of £26 and you haven't really lost out on anything.

 

If they get the new stadium right, standing section and all those in there creating a racket, then for big games the place will come into its own, and rather than people be put off you'll find many more inclined to go.

[donsdaft]

Do you not get the irony in saying the crap facilities doesn't put you off, while saying you won't go to a brand new stadium because it'll be slightly more hassle to get there?

 

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

I'm saying that the facilities are not crap.

 

 

 

I'm also saying that Pittodrie is the home of Aberdeen Football Club.

Not some namby pamby shite built in a soulless suburb.

 

 

 

 

Edit: For god sake min, you don't seriously believe that they have ANY intention of allowing a standing area do you?

[RicoS321]

If they get the new stadium right, standing section and all those in there creating a racket, then for big games the place will come into its own, and rather than people be put off you'll find many more inclined to go.

 

What I'm saying is that we don't generally struggle to get decent crowds for big games. I don't believe the atmosphere will help significantly in that regard as it's not really an issue (i.e. tonight's game would have sold out if it was on Saturday, and will probably be close anyway). The atmosphere will undoubtedly be better, but that would only really be useful in selling more for smaller games. 

[Garlogie_Granite]

I'm saying that the facilities are not crap.

[RicoS321]

Did you even read what you've quoted there?

 

Yes, you've only quoted the first sentence, the next one or two addressed what you wrote in full. My part about you, was in response to the "won't bother their arse part". Perhaps it wasn't clear, apologies. I think we're in agreement that people who don't go because Pittodrie is difficult to get to will replace those who won't go when in Westhill. The difference being that I don't believe those numbers are anywhere close to even. I think you're in the minority. I think most teuchters do the miles (as I did from the North and do from the South) that are going to do the miles. I don't believe that there are a swathe of teuchters that are just waiting on the dons moving before piling in. I think regular teuchter dons fans go already - they're already in their car. They'll just experience a slightly shorter journey, depending on from where they travel (I travel from the South and take fuck all time to get to Pittodrie). I do, however, believe that a large number of city based fans won't make the trip, in the same way that they wouldn't go to Homebase in Portlethen. It defeats the purpose of living in the city. When I bade in Ferryhill, I walked, it was easy. I wouldn't have gone to Westhill on a tinky bus.

[RicoS321]

Do you not get the irony in saying the crap facilities doesn't put you off, while saying you won't go to a brand new stadium because it'll be slightly more hassle to get there?

 

That's not irony.

[donsdaft]

I haven't at any time said that I wouldn't go to the new stadium.

 

I have however said on many occasions that I think it's a really bad idea to move away from Pittodrie.

 

I have also said that I fear deciding not to go to the new stadium, something which is a distinct possibility.

 

There are just so many ways that they are going to piss me off before Westhill United's first game.

 

Club membership

Special club membership

Drink at the bar special club membership

Naming rights for the new fanny pad arena.

 

Poncy toilets

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Yes, you've only quoted the first sentence, the next one or two addressed what you wrote in full. My part about you, was in response to the "won't bother their arse part". Perhaps it wasn't clear, apologies. I think we're in agreement that people who don't go because Pittodrie is difficult to get to will replace those who won't go when in Westhill. The difference being that I don't believe those numbers are anywhere close to even. I think you're in the minority. I think most teuchters do the miles (as I did from the North and do from the South) that are going to do the miles. I don't believe that there are a swathe of teuchters that are just waiting on the dons moving before piling in. I think regular teuchter dons fans go already - they're already in their car. They'll just experience a slightly shorter journey, depending on from where they travel (I travel from the South and take fuck all time to get to Pittodrie). I do, however, believe that a large number of city based fans won't make the trip, in the same way that they wouldn't go to Homebase in Portlethen. It defeats the purpose of living in the city. When I bade in Ferryhill, I walked, it was easy. I wouldn't have gone to Westhill on a tinky bus.

 

Your last point is very valid Rico.

 

The issue none of us really know is the proportion of the regular attenders that live in the city itself and the proportion that come from elsewhere.  Can anyone really say with any degree of accuracy what that split would be, I doubt it.

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

 

There are just so many ways that they are going to piss me off before Westhill United's first game.

 

 

Garlogie Galacticos

[Garlogie_Granite]

Your last point is very valid Rico.

 

The issue none of us really know is the proportion of the regular attenders that live in the city itself and the proportion that come from elsewhere.  Can anyone really say with any degree of accuracy what that split would be, I doubt it.

Club say it's 55/45

[Dunty]

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

I'm saying that the facilities are not crap.

 

 

 

I'm also saying that Pittodrie is the home of Aberdeen Football Club.

Not some namby pamby shite built in a soulless suburb.

 

 

Clubs move home all the time.

 

You'll need to explain what's "namby pamby" about a stadium yet to built, but has plans that if they come to fruition would likely be a better stadium than Pittodrie.

 

 

 

Edit: For god sake min, you don't seriously believe that they have ANY intention of allowing a standing area do you?

 

Yes, seeing that they have been very consistent in saying it will have a standing section.

 

Your objections appear to be based on what you believe rather than any evidence.