New stadium thread

[Ten Caat]

It's only one end loon. There will be plenty space to accomodate you elsewhere in the ground in comfort and safety. I'm all for the safe standing section and hope everyone one get behind it to ensure the club makes it happen.

[Dunty]

Maybe I'm getting old but I just like to watch my team in peace and quiet nowadays!!!  I'm all up for creating an atmosphere with something like a safe standing section but our disability isn't getting any easier to deal with older I get so keeping the spams and jerking down to a minimum is always appreciated and I think if folk are in danger of bumping into me with above idea one's leg and hand especially might be tempted to bash a few people in face for no reason!!!

 

Okay, so you're saying you wouldn't use that end. Likewise at some point we'll all get that old (hopefully) that a boisterous standing section is beyond us and we'll need a seat. But, can't see why anyone would be against the idea of one in the ground whether they would use it or not.

[Dunty]

Not saying it’s realistic, and definitely not going to happen any time soon, and I get the argument that it would struggle to make money seven days a week - but for the sake of discussion – how much would it cost to build a train line out to Kingsford, or at least nearby.

 

Going by this, they are building 16 miles of new track between Aberdeen and Inverurie, enabling infrastructure for two new stations, relocating a third one and extending platforms at two stations.

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/work-on-major-upgrade-of-north-east-railway-line-making-good-progress/

 

 

The cost for all that comes in at £330m, up from the initial estimate of £240m. The Scottish government are paying most of it as part of a £5bn rail upgrade programme.

 

If they started the track on the existing line at Bucksburn and extended it to Kingswells, so around 3-4 miles of track and a station, what would the cost of that likely be?

 

[donsdaft]

Government money or real money?

[Jute]

Not saying it’s realistic, and definitely not going to happen any time soon, and I get the argument that it would struggle to make money seven days a week - but for the sake of discussion – how much would it cost to build a train line out to Kingsford, or at least nearby.

 

Going by this, they are building 16 miles of new track between Aberdeen and Inverurie, enabling infrastructure for two new stations, relocating a third one and extending platforms at two stations.

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/work-on-major-upgrade-of-north-east-railway-line-making-good-progress/

 

 

The cost for all that comes in at £330m, up from the initial estimate of £240m. The Scottish government are paying most of it as part of a £5bn rail upgrade programme.

 

If they started the track on the existing line at Bucksburn and extended it to Kingswells, so around 3-4 miles of track and a station, what would the cost of that likely be?

 

Only recent rail extensions I can think of were the Stirling to Alloa line which refurbished existing track for 5.6 miles and a new station at Alloa cost £85m. Borders Railway was longer, 35 miles, and although some of the old track bed was still there new track and bridges were reaquired at a cost of £350m.

 

Would think a completely new line even only 4 miles  of track, a station and associated signalling would cost more than the cost of Stirling to Alloa line but less than the Borders. Cannot see Scottish Government forking out for a line to serve a football stadium.

 

Other option could be a light railway/tram line from Aberdeen to Westhill. Edinburgh trams network runs for 8 miles so a similar distance as Aberdeen Westhill. It cost £776m to build. Would assume a line in Aberdeen would cost similar so no chance Aberdeen Council will fund that. Then you would have similar legal wrangles on the routes as there was on the bypass route.

 

[Tyrant]

Bloody government.. upgrading our neglected ageing infrastructure. Again! 

[baggy89]

Just going to place this here...

 

www.stadiumforbath.com

 

About as central a location as you could have in any town.

Land would be worth a absolute fortune for housing development.

[donsdaft]

Egg chasing though.

 

These people don't have to be punted out of town.

 

 

On another note, (and having lived through a lifetime of crap newspaper headlines) I see that the UK railways are the envy of every country in Europe.

 

So a wee branch line to the new stadium site will be nae bother.

[tom_widdows]

Just going to place this here...

 

www.stadiumforbath.com

 

About as central a location as you could have in any town.

Land would be worth a absolute fortune for housing development.

 

Nice when your existing stadium & facilities are on a large site not closely boxed in by public roads and private housing.

 

 

 

 

[tom_widdows]

And the sharks start circling

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/plans-for-eateries-near-new-stadium1/

 

Also the PR machine has  restarted

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/new-dons-stadium-could-have-positive-effect-on-house-prices1/

 

[donsdaft]

It all makes me hate the idea even more.

 

A drive thru

 

I'm not a fuckin Yank

[Jute]

It all makes me hate the idea even more.

 

A drive thru

 

I'm not a fuckin Yank

 

Funnily enough on of the directors mentioned US style tailgating as a potential benefit of Kingsford. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry when he said it.

[Slim]

Tailgating is fucking ace though. No chance we’d ever be allowed to rock up to the stadium car park with a cool box full of tinnies and a barbecue.

[Jute]

Tailgating is fucking ace though. No chance we’d ever be allowed to rock up to the stadium car park with a cool box full of tinnies and a barbecue.

 

In the blazing sun with Polis who are liberal with their application of the drink driving laws it works. However in the pissing rain in Scotland with our drink driving laws it will be awful.

[Dunty]

On Thursday everyone loved the cricket ground right next to the stadium. That's essentially what Aberdeen want with the fanzone outside the stadium.

 

Obviously, there's a different between a nice day in August and a freezing cold day in December, but likely that's more what Cormack meant by the atmosphere generated by tailgating, rather than people actually firing up BBQ's in the car park.

[donsdaft]

I wasn't there but was Burnley's ground in Burnley?

 

 

 

 

Cormack can fuck off back to the good old USA

[RicoS321]

I can confirm it was in Burnley. Fantastic ground, with a great atmosphere. Nae funcy bogs, or new facilities. Just a stadium in a good location. Reminded me a little of Easter Road.

 

Showed exactly what a stadium doesn't need, with nae bells and whistles, just a bunch of mis-matched stands with pubs available nearby. Felt like you were in a town rather than a shopping centre. T'was good.

[Dunty]

Aye, Burnley's ground was murder getting away from in traffic. Roll on Kingsord and having a stadium next to a bypass.

[donsdaft]

Aye, Burnley's ground was murder getting away from in traffic. Roll on Kingsord and having a stadium next to a bypass and a crowd of 2500.

[Dunty]

Bit long-winded, but decent article about new stadiums.

 

http://mundialmag.com/2018/08/14/stadium-architecture-wembley-millenium-spurs-new-stadium-2018/

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Bit long-winded, but decent article about new stadiums.

 

http://mundialmag.com/2018/08/14/stadium-architecture-wembley-millenium-spurs-new-stadium-2018/

 

Excellent article. Pity the content of it is beyond the intellect of our chairman and it's theme a potential hazard to his agenda. The example of Arsenal is a sad one. It's not just what's happened on the pitch. It's a sterile stadium that has ripped the heart from a once-great club. West Ham have sold their soul. Those creeps in charge will predecease the club but the club may not survive too long after them.

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

A decent read, cheers Dunty.

 

I'm not sure where Aberdeen's stadium fits in to it in a positive way? Whilst it's not entirely relevant to Scottish fitba given the disparity in funds it certainly gives food for thought. Dunty, you are for the new stadium, when you read this does it not make you concerned about the move? If we go on the examples in the article it's very clear that we are ripping the heart out of the club by moving out of the city (I didn't need an article to tell me that). That leaves a few options:

 

The first is that we re-create that heart by creating something phenomenal - a really good design that alleviates all the other problems because the design in itself is the heart and the attraction. Does anyone seriously believe that's what will be done, or believe that's possible?

 

The second is that the cooncil come up with a new city plan. We extend the city out and put the stadium at the heart of it in terms of access and visibility. We bring the city to the stadium as such. Folk will say that's bound to happen anyway, and it possibly will, but it needs to be deliberate and it needs to be integrated and planned. Not some Killie ground surrounded by housing estates (which is what will happen), but surrounded by community and other stuff that attracts people toward it. We've gone out on a whim with no support and no integration. We've treated the club like an individual rather than part of something bigger and I think that we still have time to address that.

 

The third option is to completely re-define the club. Change it's identity completely. Perhaps not as full on as a name change, but certainly a change of focus. Creating the idea of an Aberdeenshire FC (again, don't call it that if you don't want) would be more apt in the proposed location. That's what this new stadium caters to, so lets not pretend it doesn't and actively pursue that goal if that's what we're doing as part of our strategy (is there a strategy?). Westhill isn't in the city, so lets stop fannying about pretending it is and pretending that in some way this club and location is representative of the city. A new start with a new identity is what we're proposing, solet's not lie about it and embrace it. If that means a clean cut off for existing fans then so be it.

 

I don't think people are really thinking about this move at all. Certainly not beyond the first decade of its existence. Saying that "we need to do something" doesn't cut it anymore, it's simply not true nor does it help.

[wee toon red]

Maybe worth a thread of its own but it is relative to some of the recent discussion here.

 

https://www.givemesport.com/1372426-its-the-end-of-football-as-we-know-it-just-ask-celtic-and-arsenal?amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

The link between "traditional" fans and clubs is going (gone?) and I doubt very much whether it'll ever come back.

[Dunty]

Maybe worth a thread of its own but it is relative to some of the recent discussion here.

 

https://www.givemesport.com/1372426-its-the-end-of-football-as-we-know-it-just-ask-celtic-and-arsenal?amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

The link between "traditional" fans and clubs is going (gone?) and I doubt very much whether it'll ever come back.

 

If that's written by the same Roger Mitchell that launched the SPL, then he's got some nerve.

[Dunty]

A decent read, cheers Dunty.

 

I'm not sure where Aberdeen's stadium fits in to it in a positive way? Whilst it's not entirely relevant to Scottish fitba given the disparity in funds it certainly gives food for thought. Dunty, you are for the new stadium, when you read this does it not make you concerned about the move? If we go on the examples in the article it's very clear that we are ripping the heart out of the club by moving out of the city (I didn't need an article to tell me that). That leaves a few options:

 

The first is that we re-create that heart by creating something phenomenal - a really good design that alleviates all the other problems because the design in itself is the heart and the attraction. Does anyone seriously believe that's what will be done, or believe that's possible?

 

The second is that the cooncil come up with a new city plan. We extend the city out and put the stadium at the heart of it in terms of access and visibility. We bring the city to the stadium as such. Folk will say that's bound to happen anyway, and it possibly will, but it needs to be deliberate and it needs to be integrated and planned. Not some Killie ground surrounded by housing estates (which is what will happen), but surrounded by community and other stuff that attracts people toward it. We've gone out on a whim with no support and no integration. We've treated the club like an individual rather than part of something bigger and I think that we still have time to address that.

 

The third option is to completely re-define the club. Change it's identity completely. Perhaps not as full on as a name change, but certainly a change of focus. Creating the idea of an Aberdeenshire FC (again, don't call it that if you don't want) would be more apt in the proposed location. That's what this new stadium caters to, so lets not pretend it doesn't and actively pursue that goal if that's what we're doing as part of our strategy (is there a strategy?). Westhill isn't in the city, so lets stop fannying about pretending it is and pretending that in some way this club and location is representative of the city. A new start with a new identity is what we're proposing, solet's not lie about it and embrace it. If that means a clean cut off for existing fans then so be it.

 

I don't think people are really thinking about this move at all. Certainly not beyond the first decade of its existence. Saying that "we need to do something" doesn't cut it anymore, it's simply not true nor does it help.

 

The article wasn't really against new stadiums, just that it should have some character that makes it feel like home. They were saying the Emirates has it (rocket seems to have mid-read the article) but West Ham clearly doesn't, and neither does Wembley.

 

I do support the new stadium. Not blindly, I want one that's good and that we're proud to call our home, not just a pitch and four stands.

 

A lot of people say it'll be another McDiarmid Park. The thing is, turn up at St Johnstone at 2pm on a Tuesday, and there's nothing except concrete and some seats. Maybe a small ticket office and a club shop. That's not what Aberdeen's vision is. They want the whole club on this one campus, almost a community. So you turn up at 2pm on a Tuesday and the first team are training, there's events on at the AFCCT, kids are training on the community pitches, you've got the car, cafe, museum and memorial garden. It's Aberdeen's home, and it's buzzing Monday to Sunday with the focal point the match day.

 

I'd like to see them go further, which is what you've alluded to in your post. If you look at Roma's stadium plans, they're actually building shops, restaurants, music venues, basically a "Roma village" - I'll post the video below. Would be good if Aberdeen could link up the council and either prime four or other developers wanting to build near the stadium, and like you say rather than just build houses and offices build something that actually makes that area a bit more interesting and gives it a bit of character. It shouldn't be all the club's job though - this is where the council should be showing a bit of vision and thinking "okay, how do we reap the benefits of this £50m private investment?"

 

Roma stadium: