New stadium thread

[Slim]

I reckon you’d fit a stadium on the Broadford Works site, that could be decent especially if we re-use the red bricks into the design. Plenty of pubs on all sides. Possibility of sticking a rudimentary train platform on the existing track with 100 metres. More footfall for George Street businesses.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Redevelop the existing Pittodrie since Cormack only wants to build a 15,000 seater anyway.  Surely plenty of room at the back of the RDS to build a museum and a pile of hospitality suites.  Job done. £30M saved 

[Kowalski]

On 08/12/2022 at 08:36, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Redevelop the existing Pittodrie since Cormack only wants to build a 15,000 seater anyway.  Surely plenty of room at the back of the RDS to build a museum and a pile of hospitality suites.  Job done. £30M saved 

Be great to see one of Milne’s wigs on display in the museum. 

[Panda]

So Aberdeen are keeping quiet until after the full council meeting next week. 

What's the best case scenario now? That the council at least give them the land for free? However, the noises coming from the council that they're demanding to know how Aberdeen plan to fund their part of the beachfront plans suggest they're in danger of being ditched from the plan altogether (as in my previous post, not the worst news).

Whether it's the beach, Hilton Hotel site, Kingsford, Loirston or somewhere else - I don't see how Aberdeen get close to the £80m needed. Even with Dave's rich mates, a share issue, naming rights, Pittodrie sale and net zero government grants, it looks to be too high a figure. Even little things like ground sharing with a new Aberdeen rugby team or hosting concerts is a mere drop in the ocean.

Dundee are building a 15,000 capacity stadium - I imagine quite basic to keep the price down - and that's all I can see us doing.

 

[sancho_panza]

6 hours ago, Panda said:

Dundee are building a 15,000 capacity stadium - I imagine quite basic to keep the price down - and that's all I can see us doing.

 

Isn't this standard practice these days? Make grandiose plans, promise the moon on a stick to attract any investment going then scale everything back to something deliverable. The same way Elon Musk went from promising a magical magneto train to founding a company that digs tunnels.

[tom_widdows]

12 hours ago, Panda said:

Dundee are building a 15,000 capacity stadium - I imagine quite basic to keep the price down - and that's all I can see us doing.

The word 'are' should not be used until the builders set up the site.
Right now all Dundee have done is submit a 'proposal of Application notice' which is essentially the club telling the council they are thinking about building a stadium but are planning to consult the public first, but wanted to ask if the council required them to consult anyone else before they put in a formal planning application.

Council has recommended they submit an 'applicaiton for pre-application advice' before they put in a formal planning application which at least hints they are willing to assist the club to get consent for it but I reckon it will be at least 18months to 2 years before they get planning approval. Then comes the staged building warrant application which would take another 1-2 years taking us to 2026. If by then  the UK hasnt become slightly more sensible, the price of materials might be so high and the availability of labour so low the most basic no frills stadium might not be financially viable even if they were able to sell Dens park for housing.
I know next to nothing about Dundee but like many other residential areas around old UK football stadia, the streets around Dens and Tannadice don't stick out to me as a prime luxury housing development opportunities

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by tom_widdows

[RicoS321]

25 minutes ago, tom_widdows said:

I know next to nothing about Dundee

It's a shithole.

[Panda]

Dave Cormack to the BBC yesterday: "Why would we build an £80m, £90m community stadium when we could build a stadium at Kingsford for £50m?"

If (IF) those numbers are correct*, and the council are not going to budge on contributing funds, I can't see any justification in building at the beach. Especially if it's going to be a miniature 16,000 capacity bowl with a flooded pitch.

I still argue, and will continue to do so even if I'm in a minority of one, that if the SNP push ahead with plans to rebuild Cove train station that we should build at Loirston. Easy access to the AWPR, the motorway, a train station within walking distance, not in the city centre but closer than Kingsford and with the train you could drink there or Portlethen until an hour before kick-off, and you can still lay on shuttle buses if that's what turns you on. It beats Kingsford in every category.

 

 

*My scepticism would be that the price breakdown for the beach is £60m construction, extras making it £74m, optimism bias up to £92m. I would suggest Dave is ignoring the latter two for Kingsford in order to make it sound cheaper. 

[RicoS321]

7 hours ago, Panda said:

Dave Cormack to the BBC yesterday: "Why would we build an £80m, £90m community stadium when we could build a stadium at Kingsford for £50m?"

If (IF) those numbers are correct*, and the council are not going to budge on contributing funds, I can't see any justification in building at the beach. Especially if it's going to be a miniature 16,000 capacity bowl with a flooded pitch.

I still argue, and will continue to do so even if I'm in a minority of one, that if the SNP push ahead with plans to rebuild Cove train station that we should build at Loirston. Easy access to the AWPR, the motorway, a train station within walking distance, not in the city centre but closer than Kingsford and with the train you could drink there or Portlethen until an hour before kick-off, and you can still lay on shuttle buses if that's what turns you on. It beats Kingsford in every category.

 

 

*My scepticism would be that the price breakdown for the beach is £60m construction, extras making it £74m, optimism bias up to £92m. I would suggest Dave is ignoring the latter two for Kingsford in order to make it sound cheaper. 

I think the new hooses at loirston might have something to say about that option! That ship has long sailed. Unless we ground share with the cove huns.

The cost for Westhill is largely irrelevant, you'd easily lose that additional £40M over the next fifty years or so in lost revenue (I have no doubt it would be an initial success). The shuttle bus nonsense should never have been taken seriously by anyone. 

The council is putting forward the stadium as part of its proposal. It'll be looking for investors into the scheme (this whole thing will be about transferring public land into private hands). As part of that, they could insist on/persuade those investors to contribute to the stadium fund. I'd have thought that costs could be significantly reduced by contracting out the entire development. It doesn't necessarily require the council providing funds to end up with a much less expensive stadium.

At present, I'm happy enough with pittodrie until a workable idea comes along.

[Panda]

I thought the plans for new houses at Loirston had been rejected, but I'm not a local lad anymore so will stand corrected.

I'll take a drive past it when up for the game on Saturday and begin my own feasibility study.

[tom_widdows]

On 08/12/2022 at 08:00, Slim said:

I reckon you’d fit a stadium on the Broadford Works site, that could be decent especially if we re-use the red bricks into the design. Plenty of pubs on all sides. Possibility of sticking a rudimentary train platform on the existing track with 100 metres. More footfall for George Street businesses.

Too small

[tom_widdows]

Change seat colours and something like this down the beach would do nice

Ugly as hell from the outside but 'form follows function'

More pretty you make it the more expensive and impractical it becomes

[Panda]

6 hours ago, tom_widdows said:

Change seat colours and something like this down the beach would do nice

Ugly as hell from the outside but 'form follows function'

More pretty you make it the more expensive and impractical it becomes

Not too far off the Loirston plans (inside at least).

[Reekie_Red]

Really hope its a square stand config and not an oval. Nothing quite like having the fans towering over the pitch

[Panda]

Was quite taken by AZ Alkmaar's stadium when Dundee United played there earlier in the season.

Great example of a small stadium still being imposing with high stands. They've recently increased capacity from 17,000 to 19,500 pretty easily by just having to add seats to the front of the stands, where the first row had been high up.

Would suit us nicely.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Panda

[tlg1903]

On 28/02/2023 at 13:05, Panda said:

Was quite taken by AZ Alkmaar's stadium when Dundee United played there earlier in the season.

Great example of a small stadium still being imposing with high stands. They've recently increased capacity from 17,000 to 19,500 pretty easily by just having to add seats to the front of the stands, where the first row had been high up.

Would suit us nicely.

Yeah I would be perfectly happy with something like that.  Steep stands are a must for me. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Seemingly cost 38 million euros to build, 18 years ago 

In today's money that is a lot of Ramsay's, Cosgrove's and McKenna's.

Edited March 1, 2023 by wokinginashearerwonderland

[manc_don]

As long as we get the snow loadings on the roof right

[manc_don]

Well, well, well...

 

[Kowalski]

AFC will get no financial help from the City Clowncil. If they want a new stadium they’ll have to do it themselves. 
 

[tom_widdows]

Bored of this now.

20years ago while at uni there were 'masterplans' which included trams and modifications to the beach which included new stadium. A big difference was fancy 3D computer images weren't as quick or cheap to produce plus social media was basically 'myspace' and 'friends-reinited' so news articles were fairly dull and wordy and didnt get much traction.

Modified Pittodrie with smaller capacity seems to be the future.

Start putting more effort into the rail seating campaign in the hope it can be installed behind both goals and authorities allow for increased capacity when set to standing (eg 3000 seats becomes 5000 standing or something similar). Will mean smaller capacity for Euro and international games but so be it.

Have had a couple of trips to aberdeen which took me around the kingswells area and frankly putting a new stadium out there without a proper rail link or a significant upgrade to the bypass exit is a non starter for me. 

Recently got to see Bolton's stadium which is in Horwich, a mere 6miles from the old Burnden Park (Cormack park is 8miles from pittodrie). Cant imagine they would have gotten away with it had the site not been next to the M61 and without a rail link.

Edited April 21, 2023 by tom_widdows

[manc_don]

Absolutely nothing around it from memory, Tom? 

[Panda]

All that appears to have happened is the council have changed their wording to "possible stadium", which seems a fair thing to say. 

Quite happy not to be part of anything to do with the council though. They have shown consistently they can't be trusted, no matter which party is in charge.

Of course Kingsford & rebuilding Pittodrie are both beset with issues, so does leave us a bit of an issue. Is the old Hilton Hotel site definitely not doable?

Either way, I think the £80m price tag still remains the biggest sticking point. 

[tom_widdows]

5 hours ago, manc_don said:

Absolutely nothing around it from memory, Tom? 

Bolton's ground?

Retail park and a Tesco with its own Sushi bar (for some reason)
Also got the Bolton indoor arena,  a cinema and bowling alley now

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by tom_widdows

[Jute]

8 hours ago, tom_widdows said:

Bolton's ground?

Retail park and a Tesco with its own Sushi bar (for some reason)
Also got the Bolton indoor arena,  a cinema and bowling alley now

 

Think there is a gastropub in the retail park as well but it’s shit getting there even with the rail link especially if it’s a decent crowd.