New stadium thread

[Tyrant]

The by pass being finished started.............

 

 

Good one

 

Sorted.

[manc_don]

Aberdeen plan to launch a share issue in an effort to shift up to £16m of debt and losses of £1m a year as well as funding a new stadium and training ground. (Various)

[tom_widdows]

Aberdeen plan to launch a share issue in an effort to shift up to £16m of debt and losses of £1m a year as well as funding a new stadium and training ground. (Various)

 

Is this one going to be the 'massive' success the previous two that I can recall were?

[Madbadteacher]

"We have silver, sell the club"

[Tyrant]

I'm hearing rumours of a new plan to re-develop Pittodrie rather than build a completely new stadium. I even saw a mock up of what it would look like over on the facebook.

 

I thought we'd been told time and time again that it "wasn't possible"? As much as it'd please me personally I can't see it. I'd prefer to stay at the stadium we have tbh be honest.

[tlg1903]

I still think a new stadium is the best value for money in terms of facilities but the consistent problems of finding a location for a new ground may be forcing the club's hand.

[tom_widdows]

I'm hearing rumours of a new plan to re-develop Pittodrie rather than build a completely new stadium. I even saw a mock up of what it would look like over on the facebook.

 

I thought we'd been told time and time again that it "wasn't possible"? As much as it'd please me personally I can't see it. I'd prefer to stay at the stadium we have tbh be honest.

ive actually been sketching out plans which would see it converted to a two stand stadium like braga's. Trying to fit in a small terrace at one end. Might chance my arm and send it to the club when im done.  U got a link to the Facebook?

[Tyrant]

ive actually been sketching out plans which would see it converted to a two stand stadium like braga's. Trying to fit in a small terrace at one end. Might chance my arm and send it to the club when im done.  U got a link to the Facebook?

 

[capitalred]

i saw the mock up of pittodrie yesterday, i assumed it was a piss take, it wasnt very inspiring anyway, if they had filled in the corners it would have been spot on though

 

im always struck by the "not enough room" argument, Athletico Madrids main stand was built over a bloody 6 lane motorway, weve only got pittodrie st to contend with, if the soother was built steeper with two tears i doubt it would need much more room, although there seems to be quite a bit behind it anyway, same with the merkie and join them all together.

 

unfortuantly i can see the "to expensive" argument, but id love to stay at Pittodrie.

 

Dreading any "out of town" move tbh, football for me is all about the day, meeting mates, a drink or two in town, some scoff, a wee wander along the road, watch the game, then do it all again after the game. Being out at cove i can see us sitting in the bar in town, seeing that its 20 to 3 and deciding to stay in the bar. there would be a few like that, nae doot a funcy new ground would also attract a load of new folk at the start, but for me its just nae something to look forward to.

[tom_widdows]

i saw the mock up of pittodrie yesterday, i assumed it was a piss take, it wasnt very inspiring anyway, if they had filled in the corners it would have been spot on though

 

im always struck by the "not enough room" argument, Athletico Madrids main stand was built over a bloody 6 lane motorway, weve only got pittodrie st to contend with, if the soother was built steeper with two tears i doubt it would need much more room, although there seems to be quite a bit behind it anyway, same with the merkie and join them all together.

 

unfortuantly i can see the "to expensive" argument, but id love to stay at Pittodrie.

 

Dreading any "out of town" move tbh, football for me is all about the day, meeting mates, a drink or two in town, some scoff, a wee wander along the road, watch the game, then do it all again after the game. Being out at cove i can see us sitting in the bar in town, seeing that its 20 to 3 and deciding to stay in the bar. there would be a few like that, nae doot a funcy new ground would also attract a load of new folk at the start, but for me its just nae something to look forward to.

 

A 6 lane motorway doesnt have local residents objecting to their lives being disrupted during construction work or that their house price will drop. Also it was built in the 1960s in a country which then ruled by a facist dictator.

 

The big issue (as I believe) with pittodrie's redevelopment is the requirement for large concourse areas behind modern UK football stands as breakout areas (see the back of the RDS or even the current Easter Road). The south stand as it stands breaches a fair number of modern regulations and there really isnt enough space to build a 9000 seat stand and suitable concourse area with access for emergency vehicles. The same goes for the Merkland.

 

That mock up is all very nice but having seen (and been sketching on) the site plan of the stadium you cant just stick an RDS in the same space as a Merkland. That would cover all of the publicly owned Merkland Lane and part of the carpark of the flats behind. Doing the same with the South Stand would require the demolition of a new block of flats and part of the existing car-park so we would be making the situation 'worse than existing' which fucks you over in terms of Building and Planning Regulations.

It also appears to show the main stand with a nice lick of paint which is completely pointless.

 

My sketch is based on rotating the pitch 90degrees, extending the RDS on both wings and constructing another RDS style stand opposite. Space allowing there would be a small 'safe standing' terrace behind the south goal with the North Goal remaining open (apart from a high wall and maybe a series of flag poles.)

 

The new Merkland stand would be approx 27m away from Merkland Lane which would hopefully comply with the 'breakout' area regulations.

 

Not great with the 3D but I'll see if i can post something up when I'm finished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manc_don]

A 6 lane motorway doesnt have local residents objecting to their lives being disrupted during construction work or that their house price will drop. Also it was built in the 1960s in a country which then ruled by a facist dictator.

 

The big issue (as I believe) with pittodrie's redevelopment is the requirement for large concourse areas behind modern UK football stands as breakout areas (see the back of the RDS or even the current Easter Road). The south stand as it stands breaches a fair number of modern regulations and there really isnt enough space to build a 9000 seat stand and suitable concourse area with access for emergency vehicles. The same goes for the Merkland.

 

That mock up is all very nice but having seen (and been sketching on) the site plan of the stadium you cant just stick an RDS in the same space as a Merkland. That would cover all of the publicly owned Merkland Lane and part of the carpark of the flats behind. Doing the same with the South Stand would require the demolition of a new block of flats and part of the existing car-park so we would be making the situation 'worse than existing' which fucks you over in terms of Building and Planning Regulations.

It also appears to show the main stand with a nice lick of paint which is completely pointless.

 

My sketch is based on rotating the pitch 90degrees, extending the RDS on both wings and constructing another RDS style stand opposite. Space allowing there would be a small 'safe standing' terrace behind the south goal with the North Goal remaining open (apart from a high wall and maybe a series of flag poles.)

 

The new Merkland stand would be approx 27m away from Merkland Lane which would hopefully comply with the 'breakout' area regulations.

 

Not great with the 3D but I'll see if i can post something up when I'm finished.

 

Look forward to seeing it Tom! 

 

I think you'd be surprised though, as I said (probably earlier in this thread), the AFC wimbledon stadium which is far from ideal given the constraints we've had to work with, is on a footprint similar to that of the existing Pittodrie.

 

 

Essentially, to the west of the land there is an existing set of substations - no access, to the south and east and part of the north is part of the master plan (i.e. residential) as well as other tenancies, however the club had very little say and have had to deal with what they have been given.  The planners have criticised the master plan (Sheppard Robson) as it doesn't allow the stadium enough space to breath. I am certain that we could redevelop Pittodrie, however whether the costs would allow that to happen is a whole different thing. Neighbour issues as well would play a role, but it's certainly not impossible.  The above is for the 20K final solution, whereas the first phase would be 11K (1 permanent stand and 3 temporary, 1 being standing).

 

In terms of dealing with the public / housing frontage, the stadium will use a different set of materials which would usually be associated with a stadium for this very reason.  It'll be interesting to see how it turns out after a few years.

[tom_widdows]

Manc would I be right in thinking that the residential and stadium access routes are pedestrian only?

If that is the case the breakout zones should be taken care off.

 

The old adage of 'things are a bit different in London' could possibly be argued.

[manc_don]

The road to the east of the stadium is pedestrian only except in the event of emergency, however there is also an access road to the stadium (beneath the west stand) which connects in to the road to the south. But this isn't for public use.

 

The road to the east is highly contentious as the planners wanted it to be wider, but devopers being what they are obviously haven't changed this for optimisation reasons. I wouldn't say that its any easier, given that this is on the Wimbledon dog track site , but that's a whole other debate. Fortunately the support for the wimbleDons to move back to plough lane are greater (not the same site as the original). One of the biggest differences here would be rights to light which might come in to play, I've not seen which side the windows are on in the apartments behind the south stand but would have thought that would massively hinder the height of the stand if they're on then wrong side. Obviously the points you raise are also all completely valid but there could be clever ways around this.

[manc_don]

Tom, did you manage to upload any pics of your proposal?  Or keeping your cards close to your chest?

[tom_widdows]

I can send you a scanned 'tracing paper over photo' sketch from a few months ago. The actual formal CAD sketch has been lying dormant due to excess office and private work. Free hand perspectives on CAD are a kazak sugarcube!)

[WeegieRed]

Watching the Celtic game, what a crowd Malmo had, and what a tidy ground too.

 

It's a wee bit bigger than what we're looking for (around 26,000 I think theirs holds) but created some noise.

 

Of course, you'll never get Pittodrie, or any Aberdeen full house, making that noise for 90 minutes. You'll get a few waves round the ground but v Kairat was nowhere in the scale of that Malmo crowd tonight.

 

However, it really wets the appetite to get a ground to be proud of, either new ground or a rebuilt Pittodrie. The sections that will sing, give them a proper place behind the goal, let the noise spread around the ground.

 

Hearts are already planning an extension to Tynecastle and I wouldn't be surprised if they get moving on it in the next year or two. It's easier for them of course - move to Murrayfield or share Easter Road, build a new main stand, and they're done, probably somewhere between 22,000 - 25,000 and in current attendances they'll have it near enough full (game v Aberdeen already sold out with a month to go).

 

Would be nice to hear some news from AFC about what we're doing.

 

[tom_widdows]

Do you have a link to the update on their expansion? I would be interested to see if they can be as innovative with the new stand as they were with the interlinked concourses for the 3 others.

Hearts also wouldn't need to move away as they would still have a capacity of nearly 13000 without the main stand.

 

Now they have apparently purchased or been gifted most of the surrounding buildings they have a better chance that they ever did with old Vlad at the helm and their only stumbling block as I see it is the nursery next to the Roseburn.

 

Vlads old dream of a 10000 main seater stand on the other hand..... no chance.

[WeegieRed]

They haven't announced any formal plans, just that they are planning to rebuild the main stand and move away for a season.

 

http://m.heraldscotland.com/sport/13213144.Budge_has_a_change_of_heart_over_new_stadium/

 

They would have to move away for the season, they couldn't stay at Tynecastle.

 

Firstly the capacity - 13,000 wouldn't even cover their season ticket holders.

 

However more than that, they'd have no changing rooms, physio room, anywhere to wash kit, no press box, etc. It would be a nightmare and should they be in Europe they might be forced to move anyway, so they would have to move.

 

On the same note, should Aberdeen decide to stay at Pittodrie and rebuild the main stand, we would have the same problem. Bit trickier us moving to another ground for a year though.

[tom_widdows]

13000 for one season (or even part) is not a hassle. Temporary Changing rooms, physio rooms and office accommodation are also readily available. The delay with football stands is making them safe for x number of thousand fans. the office and changing room areas can be completed fairly quickly with the actual seating and fan facilities following on later. I reckon it would be a lot cheaper than renting Murrayfield

Hibs stayed at Easter Road when they re-built the main stand.

 

However that is hearts and re-buiilding the main stand at pittodrie is in a a different league to the one at Tynecastle.

 

[rocket_scientist]

What did I miss? Under Vlad, they were £17m in debt when we were 10m.

 

Who bailed them out that they're affording to spend money on redevelopment?

 

How was it done? I can't even remember how Vlad got binned. Who owns the shares these days?

[hilton]

model it on Groningen . loved that stadium last year. I  canna wait till we move sooner the better, have  felt like that ever since Dick Donald went up . 

[WeegieRed]

You can't cut your season tickets holders for a season while you build a new stand. You do it if you have to, but if you have two stadiums in your city to pick from then it seems obvious.

 

I think their best bet would be Easter Road. Hearts fans would get a kick out of having a bigger average crowd than hibs in their own stadium. The ticket sales would cover the cost of ground sharing.

 

 

It's incredibly frustrating though when you see Hearts increasing home crowds to the point where they've sold out the Aberdeen game a month in advance and have less than 500 left for the next home game after that v Kilmarnock. Add in 13,500 season ticket holders and the plan to have the new main stand built in the next 2-3 years, you can only admire that.

 

On the other hand we don't know what we're doing. We're doing well on the pitch but we should be taking advantage of it off the pitch and we're not. I don't think we'll see a new stadium or an upgraded Pittodrie for at least 10 years.

[tom_widdows]

You make the assumption that Hibs and the SRU would let Hearts move in and not hit them with a hefty bill for the privilege.

 

Personally what I find incredibly frustrating is AFC fans that have seen their team go debt free for the first time since fuck knows and build a team that is the envy of most clubs in Scotland now stating that we should admire a team that 3 years ago was one decision away from liquidation

 

I recall similar stuff being touted by AFC fans when mad Vlad was bragging about a 50million pound main stand & hotel complex. Many sports teams have 'planned' to build new stands or new stadiums in 2-3 years'. Plans and reality are rarely kind to each other.

 

The ever fickle football fan

 

 

 

[tlg1903]

I don't disagree with any particular point Tom but, that said, I understand the frustration with the lack of information about the longer term plans from the club. All we have really been toldis they are wanting to build a new stadium and top end training facility but every attempt to do so has gone down in flames.

[manc_don]

The way I see it is , we were promised certain things by the chairman, over and over again. What year of the five year plan are we on? Now don't get me wrong, going debt free is massive, words cannot express how impressed I am with that and has certainly bought the board time. But the fact remains, we have no training facilities, we have a stadium which either needs serious investment or replacing. I have no doubts that the club are working in the background, but a wee bit of an update wouldn't go a miss. I'd hope that a feasibility study has already or is in the process of being carried out. Its clear that we are not moving anywhere anytime soon . The support has been galvanised by the performance on the pitch, noe to see it through off it.