New stadium thread

[manc_don]

Flood risk assessment is a standard procedure in an area with water / flood risk area. I'm not aware of where they are but I'd imagine that would be the reason why. Has gone awfuly quiet one that front.

[rocket_scientist]

You were the one that said stupid question. I just agreed with you WR.

 

When and how do lochs break their banks? At the time you asked, the Dee was flooding the PLGC, Inverdee and large parts of Deeside.

 

As manc said, flood risk assessments are standard procedure in civil engineering projects. A loch well above sea level is hardly the same as a river that goes into the sea.

[WeegieRed]

You were the one that said stupid question. I just agreed with you WR.

 

When and how do lochs break their banks? At the time you asked, the Dee was flooding the PLGC, Inverdee and large parts of Deeside.

 

As manc said, flood risk assessments are standard procedure in civil engineering projects. A loch well above sea level is hardly the same as a river that goes into the sea.

 

I never suggested it would break its banks. I asked if there was a risk of flooding.

 

According to the report, there are in fact a number of flood risks. However they appear to be small and the area at risk isn't the stadium footprint, which is fine.

 

Was still worth asking the question, if only to get one of your intelligent responses....

[rocket_scientist]

I'm confused. First you say it's a stupid question. Now it's not so stupid. Make up your mind.

 

Or maybe show your mind?

 

What were you thinking?

 

When rivers all over the UK were flooding lands, what did you think when you asked about "weather like this" and a potential stadium next to a tiny loch? What cause and effect were you anticipating?

 

Rain. Falls from the sky. Lands on land, in rivers, in lochs, on buildings. It's not too difficult to understand the differences between running water and still. Nor too big a stretch of imagination to see that rain running off mountains and hills gathers into rivers.

[WeegieRed]

I'm confused. First you say it's a stupid question. Now it's not so stupid. Make up your mind.

 

Or maybe show your mind?

 

What were you thinking?

 

When rivers all over the UK were flooding lands, what did you think when you asked about "weather like this" and a potential stadium next to a tiny loch? What cause and effect were you anticipating?

 

Rain. Falls from the sky. Lands on land, in rivers, in lochs, on buildings. It's not too difficult to understand the differences between running water and still. Nor too big a stretch of imagination to see that rain running off mountains and hills gathers into rivers.

 

I wondered if perhaps the car park or surrounding footprint had a risk of flood. I said in the original post I didn't mean the stadium itself. The 24 page report signalled that yes, there is a risk of flood, but unlikely where the stadium would be.

 

Like I said, was worth asking the question, whether it was stupid or not.

 

Not sure it was worth you having a panic attack about it though.

[rocket_scientist]

No panic attack here. You're the one who brought it up again, having asked the stupid - and quite frankly boring - question the first time.

[Edinburghdon]

STV reporting there will be an announcement regarding the stadium and training facilities tomorrow. Expected to be focused on the Westhill/kingswells area again.

 

I'll believe it when I see it but I'd probably prefer it there than loriston.

[ayrshire_don74]

Ach well just the several million wasted on studies of loirston

 

[RicoS321]

F'n Westhill? utter shite. Bypass etc. Anyway, it'll never happen. Although no coincidence that a move is back on the cards now Labour are out of government.

[tom_widdows]

Aberdeen are to announce plans to build a new stadium and training facility to the west of the city.

 

The site at Kingsford, near Westhill, is close to the new Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route.

 

The Dons had been considering a relocation to Loirston, to the south of Aberdeen, a proposal which had been marred by planning difficulties.

 

The Scottish Premiership club abandoned plans to build at Bellfield beside Kingswells in 2003.

 

The Pittodrie side faced strong opposition back then from local campaigners.

 

The new stadium will be subject to planning permission, with the club revealing more details of the project early on Thursday morning.

 

The issues with aberdeens shite public transport system shall rear their ugly head.

At least with Loriston there was the slight hope of re-opening the Cove railway station sometime in the future but this?

 

I'm wondering if the amateur antics of Aberdeen City Council have had a bearing on the club looking to try Aberdeen-shire council instead.

[Jute]

Westhill is a nightmare to get to on public transport. Hopefully a just trying to force city councils hand to get a decent location within the city.

[Edinburghdon]

Westhill is still a hell of a lot easier to get to than loriston. Plus it's not like additional public transport won't be arranged as soon as there's a need too. I think people get too hung up on what's currently there, rather than what could/should be there by the time the stadium is ready.

 

Assuming it's ever actually ready.

[Edinburghdon]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-fc-reveal-new-plans-stadium-near-westhill/

 

The map is a bit blurry but it shows the location of the proposed stadium. The article also seems to indicate the missives for the site has been signed which is a huge step. Would be interesting to see the plans once the planning application goes in.

 

Considering there's not a hope in hell of a big enough site in the city centre magically appearing I'd say it's one of the better locations that's been proposed over the years.

[manc_don]

From the offical site:

 

[baggy89]

Would it not be better of at least one of those 3/4G full sized pitches was indoor?

[rocket_scientist]

Westhill Kingswells is a terrible location for so many reasons.

 

There must be a reason why Milne chose it, just like there were reasons why he proposed a.n.other location and spent good money on consultants and feasibility studies and wasted all our time on a site that was never going to happen.

 

Examining those reasons bring understanding.

 

How disgusting that twenty years after he first proposed it, Milne is getting his way.

 

There were reasons why he agitated for a new stadium immediately after taking our money and putting us into the red for the first time in our 90 year history with the building of the RDS. Having just built that, you might have thought that redevelopment of the rest of Pittodrie might have been better than relocation, unless a builder/developer might have made money out of our existing site?

 

Who owns the land we're buying to site this new complex? When did they buy it and for how much? And what are we paying for it? What is the realistically attainable selling price for our current site in today's market and who are the potential buyers?

 

To understand and learn what's going on, it's not a question of asking too many questions but asking the right questions that reveals truth.

 

This may now reveal the real motives of the Donald's "gift", cleverly presented and packaged as from Mr and Mrs. Firstly no woman tells a multi millionaire what to do with their cash and no man ever got rich by philanthropy on that scale. The truth will out. Milne and Donald. Their agendas is where the truth lies

[RicoS321]

Judging by the fact that studies and such like already having been done, and in quiet, I'd be willing to bet it's Milne-owned land. Took a glance at the PandJ at work, and obviously no mention of who currently owns the land. Journalism at its most basic, the first question any person interested in the story would ask. The article is a propaganda piece bigging up the new shiny thing. I'm all for a positive piece, as a lot of people will see the stadium as a great development, however that has to be tempered with some basic fact-giving and question-asking.

 

I said from day one that I thought the Donald investment was a down payment on future returns via a large building contract. I'm sticking with that theory. Again, the question was never asked.

[Edinburghdon]

Judging by the fact that studies and such like already having been done, and in quiet, I'd be willing to bet it's Milne-owned land. Took a glance at the PandJ at work, and obviously no mention of who currently owns the land. Journalism at its most basic, the first question any person interested in the story would ask. The article is a propaganda piece bigging up the new shiny thing. I'm all for a positive piece, as a lot of people will see the stadium as a great development, however that has to be tempered with some basic fact-giving and question-asking.

 

I said from day one that I thought the Donald investment was a down payment on future returns via a large building contract. I'm sticking with that theory. Again, the question was never asked.

 

You could well be right, driving past on the way to work this morning it looks to be farm land but I guess that's not to rule out Milne owning it.  I'd imagine they'd need to be careful with regards to conflicts of interests when buying/selling that land if Milne does own it though.

 

Westhill Kingswells is a terrible location for so many reasons.

 

Care to expend on those many reasons?  I cant think of too many, once additional public transport links etc are sorted out.

 

Considering a city centre location was never going to magically appear to keep everyone happy it seems to be an alright proposal.

[RicoS321]

You could well be right, driving past on the way to work this morning it looks to be farm land but I guess that's not to rule out Milne owning it.  I'd imagine they'd need to be careful with regards to conflicts of interests when buying/selling that land if Milne does own it though.

 

Nah, think I was spikkin shite, I think the current owner is not indeed Milne. Still not sure who it actually is, but you're right I think it's farm land so they'll get way over the £6K an acre you'd get for farm land for a stadium site. The AWPR will have fucked it for putting a nice hoose on too (not that that'd stop Milne).

 

Care to expend on those many reasons?  I cant think of too many, once additional public transport links etc are sorted out.

 

Considering a city centre location was never going to magically appear to keep everyone happy it seems to be an alright proposal.

 

Transport links will undoubtedly be a massive factor, and putting on buses won't sort that out, ever. It simply isn't walkable from the city, which is a huge factor. It won't be from day one, but after 5-6 years - basically, the first time the team hits a poor run of form - the crowds will sink. Out of site, out of mind springs to mind, it's difficult to put a price on seeing fans walking through a city centre on the way to a game in terms of making a club belong to a city, but I'd say it's a significant form of advertising at least. It'll be like a large McDiarmid park.

 

We don't need a city centre location to magically appear, we own one. As far as I'm concerned, we still haven't had an adequate explanation - or any explanation - as to why Pittodrie can't be done up. We're going to get about £12M for the sale of Pittodrie, £15M if we're generous. That leaves £25-28M of funding to find. The only question we should be asking is whether or not a new stadium not in Aberdeen is better than a Pittodrie with £25-28M upgrading funds spent on it. That is the only relevant question here. As far as I'm aware there is no special funding mechanism only available to new stadia. Naming rights can be as easily sold on a re-vamped Pittodrie as a new stadium, a mortgage can just as easily be obtained on the existing stadium as on a new build. If the club gave a shite about its fans they'd put a study side by side which showed an enhanced Pittodrie alongside the new stadium and let the fans decide. There is nothing special about a new stadium, and if the directors were being honest with the fans they'd undertake this study.

[Edinburghdon]

Nah, think I was spikkin shite, I think the current owner is not indeed Milne. Still not sure who it actually is, but you're right I think it's farm land so they'll get way over the £6K an acre you'd get for farm land for a stadium site. The AWPR will have fucked it for putting a nice hoose on too (not that that'd stop Milne).

 

Transport links will undoubtedly be a massive factor, and putting on buses won't sort that out, ever. It simply isn't walkable from the city, which is a huge factor. It won't be from day one, but after 5-6 years - basically, the first time the team hits a poor run of form - the crowds will sink. Out of site, out of mind springs to mind, it's difficult to put a price on seeing fans walking through a city centre on the way to a game in terms of making a club belong to a city, but I'd say it's a significant form of advertising at least. It'll be like a large McDiarmid park.

 

We don't need a city centre location to magically appear, we own one. As far as I'm concerned, we still haven't had an adequate explanation - or any explanation - as to why Pittodrie can't be done up. We're going to get about £12M for the sale of Pittodrie, £15M if we're generous. That leaves £25-28M of funding to find. The only question we should be asking is whether or not a new stadium not in Aberdeen is better than a Pittodrie with £25-28M upgrading funds spent on it. That is the only relevant question here. As far as I'm aware there is no special funding mechanism only available to new stadia. Naming rights can be as easily sold on a re-vamped Pittodrie as a new stadium, a mortgage can just as easily be obtained on the existing stadium as on a new build. If the club gave a shite about its fans they'd put a study side by side which showed an enhanced Pittodrie alongside the new stadium and let the fans decide. There is nothing special about a new stadium, and if the directors were being honest with the fans they'd undertake this study.

 

Check back on this topic and ones on other forums, the reasons why redeveloping pittodrie on its current site have been done to death multiple times. From memory there's a couple of clued up posters on both here and the hat that have explained pretty simply why staying put isn't an option even ignoring the financial side of things. making sure it was up to current standards etc would reduce the capacity to a ridiculously low level, without even considering the logistics of redeveloping the stadium whilst still using it.

 

I get what you mean, I'd dearly like the new stadium within walking distance of the city centre but I just can't see where we could locate it. That's without considering the fact traffic and parking is already a joke in town, adding in football traffic would be even worse, it's bad enough at the current site!

[RicoS321]

Check back on this topic and ones on other forums, the reasons why redeveloping pittodrie on its current site have been done to death multiple times. From memory there's a couple of clued up posters on both here and the hat that have explained pretty simply why staying put isn't an option even ignoring the financial side of things. making sure it was up to current standards etc would reduce the capacity to a ridiculously low level, without even considering the logistics of redeveloping the stadium whilst still using it.

 

I get what you mean, I'd dearly like the new stadium within walking distance of the city centre but I just can't see where we could locate it. That's without considering the fact traffic and parking is already a joke in town, adding in football traffic would be even worse, it's bad enough at the current site!

 

I have looked at what posters have written, but I've seen nothing from the club to confirm what they say (basically, it's speculation) and nothing that appears to have been investigated in any detail. If there were issues, then the club would have published that by now to put an end to any questions. My point stands, we have a site and we have £25+M it seems to develop it. An honest - without agenda - stadium project would have presented these options to the fans years ago. Put another way, a fan-owned club would have presented all options. We're not a fan-owned club, and Milne's chairmanship is not a passive one.

 

I'm not for one second suggesting that Westhill is not the best option (it's a damn site better than the foggy dump), but I think that a proper community club, with the fans at its heart would be treating its fans like adults and allowing them to see, and be involved in, the decision making process. AFC has never treated its fans like this, and never will. I know that though, and am comfortable enough with that. I'm happy just to point it out rather than start a picket outside Pittodrie or anything. In the end, if I'm honest, I probably just don't care enough to do anything more than make a point on here!

[tom_widdows]

I've had a go at sketching out a remodelled pittodrie which is based on a smaller version of Braga's ground ie just 2 massive stands.

I have had some artistic license and given the dimensions I have are from PDFs and OS Maps scanned off the internet it could be well away from the magical 18-20000 figure.

The problem is the chaos of the whole planning procedure. The number of consultants, private residents and businesses who could and probably would object would kill off the idea before even semi formal drawings could be sketched up.

I also think the actual engineering would blow the budget as the site is so tight plus having 2 open ends so close to the north sea would be a disaster

[Edinburghdon]

I have looked at what posters have written, but I've seen nothing from the club to confirm what they say (basically, it's speculation) and nothing that appears to have been investigated in any detail. If there were issues, then the club would have published that by now to put an end to any questions. My point stands, we have a site and we have £25+M it seems to develop it. An honest - without agenda - stadium project would have presented these options to the fans years ago. Put another way, a fan-owned club would have presented all options. We're not a fan-owned club, and Milne's chairmanship is not a passive one.

 

I'm not for one second suggesting that Westhill is not the best option (it's a damn site better than the foggy dump), but I think that a proper community club, with the fans at its heart would be treating its fans like adults and allowing them to see, and be involved in, the decision making process. AFC has never treated its fans like this, and never will. I know that though, and am comfortable enough with that. I'm happy just to point it out rather than start a picket outside Pittodrie or anything. In the end, if I'm honest, I probably just don't care enough to do anything more than make a point on here!

 

I wouldn't say detailed and clear arguments based on current legislation on why  the current site is not feasible  can be called speculation but I do get what you're saying.

 

Although I'm sure the club have addressed this years ago in various Q&A sessions etc, I just can't seem to find it whilst browsing on my phone.

[RicoS321]

I wouldn't say detailed and clear arguments based on current legislation on why  the current site is not feasible  can be called speculation but I do get what you're saying.

 

Although I'm sure the club have addressed this years ago in various Q&A sessions etc, I just can't seem to find it whilst browsing on my phone.

 

Yep I saw some good arguments. But they just presented a series of obstacles, problems to be worked around, rather than a feasibility study, which is the least I'd expect from the club (as opposed to forum posters). The club, as far as I'm aware haven't produced anything like that. As I say, I'm comfortable with it, Milne has a responsibility to the largest shareholders, not the fans.

[rocket_scientist]

As I say, I'm comfortable with it, Milne has a responsibility to the largest shareholders, not the fans.

 

Eh? His responsibility is to the whole club, of which the customers, the fans are the most important.

 

I'm comfortable with change and progress.

 

I'm comfortable with knowing how the world works.

 

When it comes to my club though, a club I put money into through the original shares issue, I'm not comfortable with people stealing from us, something that Dick Donald and his son would never have sanctioned.

 

We have no proof there's any impropriety going on but given his previous, I don't trust the rat cunt.