New stadium thread

[Jute]

https://goo.gl/maps/qmudFHAkENP2

 

Oxford United

 

Who get about half the gates we do for most games and from what I have read most away fans say the journeys on the bus take about double the advertised 30 minutes due to traffic.

 

 

 

 

[OxfordDon]

Who get about half the gates we do for most games and from what I have read most away fans say the journeys on the bus take about double the advertised 30 minutes due to traffic.

 

It's Oxford, everyone goes on a bike 

[Garlogie_Granite]

The petulant and bratty attitude on show here leads me to firmly believe that this is exactly the same idiot who runs the No Kingsford facebook page. That places makes North Korea seem tolerant. Anyone who wasn't foaming at the mouth about how the proposal wasn't in keeping with the surrounding area was banned and their comments deleted. Again they've been their own worst enemy from the outset.

 

Fools.

Aye, Charlie Love. 

[jess]

 

Whilst that might not be a big deal - certainly not in the short term - it is worth discussing. I'm not one for sentimentality, but I do understand identity, and Pittodrie has that. The location is very Ikea, very Stewart Milne Group - a meaningless nothing in the middle of nowhere, not part of anything. The journey to and from entirely soulless, no Castlegate, Marischal college, glass abomination or granite streets, shops and no beach, no sea. It's actually a perfect metaphor for the Scottish game; stripped of all meaning. It's line with 21st century building practices (expecially those of our chairman). It's designed for driving to and driving away from again, it's a commuter town like New Kintore, a Homebase/Asda Portlethen, an Altens industrial estate. A meaningless, soulless, shitehole. It perfectly encapsulates our Zombie society. Okay kids, as a treat, after the game we can go to Costco and buy a year's supply of cold meat. We'll be home by 17:45, and with these superb driving arrangements we'll barely miss a minute of sitting down in front of the TV and ignoring one another.

 

Great post and exactly what I can see and can't for the life of me understand Aberdeen fans supporting unless they only drive to games and go home.

 

The idea that Kingsford is 'in Aberdeen' is amazing. Can you walk to it? No. Can you bus to it from all over? No. Are there any other options other than driving? No. Because it's not Aberdeen and would finish the club.

 

The Fairhurst transport assessment really is a joke. The NKS one that was lampooned for costing a fortune rips it to shreds and it will never be passed by the council. They demonstrate it's unworkable in every way.

 

6000 fans on fucking 100% capacity buses for an average game to a place that buses don't go. 

 

When folk get sick of being herded on shambolic sardine tin buses what they going to do? Drive if they can and want to to where there already is no parking?

 

They know Kingsford is mince that they can't work out. They even wrote this in the Loirston one

 

2.1.2 The objective to prioritise the opportunities for personal travel by mode in the order –

walking, cycling, public transport, car and other motorised vehicles is summarised

within the Transport Section of SPP which states:

• ‘Buildings and facilities should be accessible on foot and by cycle.

Improvements to active transport networks, such as paths and cycle routes, in

urban and rural areas will support more sustainable travel choices.’

• ‘New development areas should be served by public transport accessing a

range of potential destinations, or proposals should be put in place to provide

public transport’;

• ‘Reducing emissions from transport sources as a contribution to achieving

Scottish Government greenhouse gas emission targets requires a shift to more

sustainable modes or transport. For people this means a shift from car-based

travel to walking, cycling and public transport.’

2.1.3 The Transport section further identifies within paragraph 168 that ‘Planning

permission should not be granted for significant travel generating uses in locations

which would encourage reliance on the private car and where:

• direct links to walking and cycling networks are not available or cannot be

made available,

• access to public transport networks would involve walking more than 400

metres,

• it would have a detrimental effect on the capacity of the strategic road and/or

rail network, or,

• the transport assessment does not identify satisfactory mechanisms for

meeting sustainable transport requirements.’

 

Also noticed the approved Pittodrie houses application builds onto Pittodrie Street and right next to golf club etc with a redesigning of the road.

 

If you can fit around 500 seats per row allowing for stairways and guidelines in 3 stands does anyone actually believe we could only fit 12 rows in?

 

I'd rather a new build on Kings Links but a Pittodrie rebuild would do. Yes I know the emergency stuff. Yes it could be worked around and would cost the club less in the long run than a stadium not in Aberdeen for however many years.

[OxfordDon]

^  See, that's how to write a counter-argument without starting on the defensive and descending into conspiracy.

 

Welcome to the board Jess.  I dinnae agree with you on Pittodrie, mind. 

 

I do think we all acknowledge that Kingsford has issues that need to be fully addressed before the build goes ahead, and transport is the big one.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Great post and exactly what I can see and can't for the life of me understand Aberdeen fans supporting unless they only drive to games and go home.

Which many do of course

 

The idea that Kingsford is 'in Aberdeen' is amazing. Can you walk to it? No.

Yes, from Westhill, Kingswells, maybe even Skene if yer feeling frisky.  Can you walk to Pittodrie, aye if you live close to it. See the similarities?

 

Can you bus to it from all over? No.

I imagine when football specials are put in, then pretty much aye.

 

Are there any other options other than driving? No. Because it's not Aberdeen and would finish the club.

Buses, both of the supporters kind, and First Bus/Stagecoach + specials. So, aye. Like now.

 

 

 

 

6000 fans on fucking 100% capacity buses for an average game to a place that buses don't go. 

Apparently 45% of fans come from the shire, plus away fans. So you're basically saying all city based fans take the bus with that figure. Utter nonsense.

 

 

 

When folk get sick of being herded on shambolic sardine tin buses what they going to do? Drive if they can and want to to where there already is no parking?

Tons of parking, more closer by than there is at the beach.

 

 

I'd rather a new build on Kings Links but a Pittodrie rebuild would do.

I'm sure the golfers & golf clubs are delighted that you're happy for the links to be ploughed up. Very considerate of you.

[Edinburghdon]

^  See, that's how to write a counter-argument without starting on the defensive and descending into conspiracy.

 

Exactly!

 

Which many do of course

Yes, from Westhill, Kingswells, maybe even Skene if yer feeling frisky.  Can you walk to Pittodrie, aye if you live close to it. See the similarities?

I imagine when football specials are put in, then pretty much aye.

Buses, both of the supporters kind, and First Bus/Stagecoach + specials. So, aye. Like now.

 

 

 

Apparently 45% of fans come from the shire, plus away fans. So you're basically saying all city based fans take the bus with that figure. Utter nonsense.

 

 

Tons of parking, more closer by than there is at the beach.

 

I'm sure the golfers & golf clubs are delighted that you're happy for the links to be ploughed up. Very considerate of you.

 

Pretty much beat me to it there... I'd also repeat that if a transport assessment cant be made to work based on 2 x dual carriageways and the promise of greatly increased bus routes does anyone really think a transport assessment based on Kings Links would be anything but significantly worse? As much as I'd love to stay as close to the existing site as possible I cant see it working, suspect Pittodrie is seen as a good site because people are used to it, in reality even it has some pretty big drawbacks.

 

I totally agree that nowhere near as many people will be able to walk there, which isnt ideal but is hopping on a bus from wherever in the city centre they're run from (or any of the park and rides around aberdeen, as is done currently as well) that much hassle? I'd not put too much (or any) concern into current bus routes as there's next to no reason to head out that way currently anyway, it'd be silly to assume additional routes arent going to be put on when the demand is there.

[manc_don]

Great post and exactly what I can see and can't for the life of me understand Aberdeen fans supporting unless they only drive to games and go home.

 

The idea that Kingsford is 'in Aberdeen' is amazing. Can you walk to it? No. Can you bus to it from all over? No. Are there any other options other than driving? No. Because it's not Aberdeen and would finish the club.

 

The Fairhurst transport assessment really is a joke. The NKS one that was lampooned for costing a fortune rips it to shreds and it will never be passed by the council. They demonstrate it's unworkable in every way.

 

6000 fans on fucking 100% capacity buses for an average game to a place that buses don't go. 

 

When folk get sick of being herded on shambolic sardine tin buses what they going to do? Drive if they can and want to to where there already is no parking?

 

They know Kingsford is mince that they can't work out. They even wrote this in the Loirston one

 

Also noticed the approved Pittodrie houses application builds onto Pittodrie Street and right next to golf club etc with a redesigning of the road.

 

If you can fit around 500 seats per row allowing for stairways and guidelines in 3 stands does anyone actually believe we could only fit 12 rows in?

 

I'd rather a new build on Kings Links but a Pittodrie rebuild would do. Yes I know the emergency stuff. Yes it could be worked around and would cost the club less in the long run than a stadium not in Aberdeen for however many years.

 

Welcome aboard, Jess, other views are always welcome 

 

I think we would all prefer the Kings Links, however if the TA is failing where we have two dual carriageways, I daresay it will fail there.  Thing is, we can't view it as, well we've been doing it at Pittodrie for X years as it will be viewed as a new development. It won't be as existing or a redevelopment so they will be less lenient regarding this aspect.  The next issue is I am presuming cost as it's a city centre location (essentially). We are on a tight budget and as many on here will know my views, the design imo has suffered.  A more expensive bit of land will just detract further from what we need.  If we had the budget, this would be hands down the location I'd want us to move to.

[jess]

Which many do of course

 

Yes, from Westhill, Kingswells, maybe even Skene if yer feeling frisky.  Can you walk to Pittodrie, aye if you live close to it. See the similarities?

 

I imagine when football specials are put in, then pretty much aye.

 

Buses, both of the supporters kind, and First Bus/Stagecoach + specials. So, aye. Like now.

 

 

 

Apparently 45% of fans come from the shire, plus away fans. So you're basically saying all city based fans take the bus with that figure. Utter nonsense.

 

 

Tons of parking, more closer by than there is at the beach.

 

I'm sure the golfers & golf clubs are delighted that you're happy for the links to be ploughed up. Very considerate of you.

 

Yes many do but nearly just as many don't and changing habits so drastically from a day out in the city, pub and walking to Pittodrie is such a huge gamble on habits and affinity it would need to be a much better and at least as easy option. By much better I mean something special and a wide consensus online is people don't like it especially compared to the Gent and Euro stadions that were hinted at. I've also not seen anything about how this would increase revenue or attendances, indeed the naming rights and sponsorship would just contribute minimally towards it being built and we'd be paying it back for decades I imagine.

 

Regarding walking distance that figure would drop substantially and is a guaranteed negative.

 

Football specials is what's being torn apart the most. For some reason the club has counted 3/5 of football specials being from Kingswells as not driving by car. (Are there enough buses?) The only other locations are direct from the city centre and Dyce.  The cost of making this as accessible as the city centre with private hire coaches in whatever shape would be relatively enormous to the club or fans who it would probably be passed on to. Stagecoach would only be able to increase by 10 buses an hour across the X17 and X18 and First Bus would be doing the shuttles. This would hammer crowds.

 

Don't think you've got the percentage logic right. The modal split puts number of fans on buses at 42.5% and just under 6000. They've planned for buses at 100% capacity.

 

As for tons of parking I don't know where you're thinking of because they've already accounted for all that they can use with Kingswells and Arnhall and that's at an extremely unrealistic average of 3 people per car when it could be as low as 1.5.

 

And the stadium wouldn't be on the golf course!

 

I don't think I'm overreacting. The club isn't prepared for a gamble this size and I can see no evidence to back it up and hoping everything falls into place and will be alright. If 12,000 are turning up for Hearts at home when we're as good as we've been in decades at Pittodrie what would we have got next to Westhill?

[manc_don]

And the stadium wouldn't be on the golf course!

 

Where would it be otherwise?

[jess]

Over driving range and cricket pitch is the identified spot. Access road to beach rerouted and us compensating for or relocating the driving range.

 

Might cost £4 million more but what's that in the scheme of the next 100 years, highly preferred fans choice and home and no risk to attendances - almost certainly increase and permanently - plus the transport costs all over the place associated with Kingsford.

[Edinburghdon]

Yes many do but nearly just as many don't and changing habits so drastically from a day out in the city, pub and walking to Pittodrie is such a huge gamble on habits and affinity it would need to be a much better and at least as easy option.

 

It'll be a change to the usual habits for some, that's not to say people won't adapt. At the end of the day getting on a bus for what's not exactly a huge journey isn't too bad, it's 6 miles not 60.

 

I've also not seen anything about how this would increase revenue or attendances, indeed the naming rights and sponsorship would just contribute minimally towards it being built and we'd be paying it back for decades I imagine.

 

I think they've made it clear that significantly increased corporate facilities, plus enhanced facilities in the fan zone will provide the increased revenue.  I don't think anyone expects this to be done without a mortgage of some sort though.

 

 

Football specials is what's being torn apart the most. For some reason the club has counted 3/5 of football specials being from Kingswells as not driving by car. (Are there enough buses?) The only other locations are direct from the city centre and Dyce.  The cost of making this as accessible as the city centre with private hire coaches in whatever shape would be relatively enormous to the club or fans who it would probably be passed on to. Stagecoach would only be able to increase by 10 buses an hour across the X17 and X18 and First Bus would be doing the shuttles. This would hammer crowds.

 

I guess they've done that as they're planning to use the kingswells park and ride as a hub for shuttle buses. There's still years to make sure there are enough buses too. I also don't think there's any logic in basing concerns on what bus routes there are currently, of course there's not going to be services from all over the city just now if there's no not the demand.

 

I sort of get what you mean about basing the buses on 100% capacity but on the other hand, why would you assume you'll be running partly empty buses. Guess it's a tough one to plan. Suspect early engagement with the various bus companies is key, they'll know better than most on running buses given the size and successfulness of the companies. I seriously doubt AFC would plan to move if it was obviously doomed to fail, it's in their interests to make this work, with a bit of work I'm sure it can.

 

 

As for tons of parking I don't know where you're thinking of because they've already accounted for all that they can use with Kingswells and Arnhall and that's at an extremely unrealistic average of 3 people per car when it could be as low as 1.5.

 

There's more dedicated parking than we currently have, there's also nothing to say the club can't put further deals in place for the use of more car parks.

 

I don't think I'm overreacting. The club isn't prepared for a gamble this size and I can see no evidence to back it up and hoping everything falls into place and will be alright. If 12,000 are turning up for Hearts at home when we're as good as we've been in decades at Pittodrie what would we have got next to Westhill?

 

The club have had years to ensure they're prepared for the move, it could be said they should be more prepared and that's not entirely unfair but with a bit of work the plans can and (if it's approved) probably will work, it'll take some getting used to but change isn't always a bad thing. I'd argue it'll make it easier to get there for as many as it makes it harder for too, which seems to be being ingnored.

 

Over driving range and cricket pitch is the identified spot. Access road to beach rerouted and us compensating for or relocating the driving range.

 

Might cost £4 million more but what's that in the scheme of the next 100 years, highly preferred fans choice and home and no risk to attendances - almost certainly increase and permanently - plus the transport costs all over the place associated with Kingsford.

 

I'd be amazed if buying a pretty successful business (or relocating it), buying significant areas of land in the city and rerouting a road would only add £4 million onto the cost, I'd be keen to see where that number came from.

 

I'd also be keen to get your thoughts on how you'd expect the transport assessment to turn out as anything but significantly worse than the kingsford one given the transport links? If the TA for kingsford is being ripped apart despite heavy use of park and rides plus 2 dual carriageways to provide good access and egress I can only Imagine how bad it'd be without the quality of roads or amount of parking. Because we are moving it'd have to be a new TA too so saying it won't be any worse than before won't cut it.

 

It's also naive to think kings links would lead to permanent increases to attendance given nothing seems to help increase attendances in the current location, same goes for assuming theee will definitely be a decrease at kingsford given it'll make it easier for a large number of our support (admittedly offset with fans in the city centre having a slightly harder journey)

 

Also, am I wrong in remembering that the original study into kings links mentioned a lot more site preparation is required due to the make up of the soil?

[tom_widdows]

Also, am I wrong in remembering that the original study into kings links mentioned a lot more site preparation is required due to the make up of the soil?

.

 

An extremely high sand content requiring some very careful thought by structural engineers to ensure the stands would not sink, not just under their own mass but also the additional weight of up to 20,000 moving objects.

The stadium would essentially need to become a giant 'raft'

I believe the RDS cost circa £4.5million back in 1992/93 and I reckon a fair chunk of that was to get the foundations right.

The golf course/ driving range etc are also close to sea level with the beach concourse acting as a flood barrier. A few years back the club had to dig up the entire pitch and fix the drainage as there were issues with the existing run being affected by the tides. The closer you get to the sea the more complicated the ground and foul drainage will become as do installing new services such as power, water, telephone etc.

 

Re-routing an existing road is one thing. Re-routing and upgrading to the required standard for a 20000 seat stadium is another.

 

Anyway I've seen a few mentions of the Council offering alternative sites.

If this is to continue I want to see actual evidence particularly given the dodgy goings on that ACC have been accused of in terms of land sales over the last 20 years.

 

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

Anyway I've seen a few mentions of the Council offering alternative sites.

If this is to continue I want to see actual evidence particularly given the dodgy goings on that ACC have been accused of in terms of land sales over the last 20 years.

Utter fabrication which is why 100% Anti Kingsford Charlie Love did a runner as soon as it was questioned.

[manc_don]

Utter fabrication which is why 100% Anti Kingsford Charlie Love did a runner as soon as it was questioned.

 

I was always under the impression that the council were not helpful at all when it came to afc.

[Tyrant]

I was always under the impression that the council were not helpful at all when it came to afc.

 

Fixed.

[manc_don]

Fixed.

 

You're right, I was being kind.

[jess]

It'll be a change to the usual habits for some, that's not to say people won't adapt. At the end of the day getting on a bus for what's not exactly a huge journey isn't too bad, it's 6 miles not 60.

 

I think they've made it clear that significantly increased corporate facilities, plus enhanced facilities in the fan zone will provide the increased revenue.  I don't think anyone expects this to be done without a mortgage of some sort though.

 

I guess they've done that as they're planning to use the kingswells park and ride as a hub for shuttle buses. There's still years to make sure there are enough buses too. I also don't think there's any logic in basing concerns on what bus routes there are currently, of course there's not going to be services from all over the city just now if there's no not the demand.

 

I sort of get what you mean about basing the buses on 100% capacity but on the other hand, why would you assume you'll be running partly empty buses. Guess it's a tough one to plan. Suspect early engagement with the various bus companies is key, they'll know better than most on running buses given the size and successfulness of the companies. I seriously doubt AFC would plan to move if it was obviously doomed to fail, it's in their interests to make this work, with a bit of work I'm sure it can.

 

There's more dedicated parking than we currently have, there's also nothing to say the club can't put further deals in place for the use of more car parks.

 

The club have had years to ensure they're prepared for the move, it could be said they should be more prepared and that's not entirely unfair but with a bit of work the plans can and (if it's approved) probably will work, it'll take some getting used to but change isn't always a bad thing. I'd argue it'll make it easier to get there for as many as it makes it harder for too, which seems to be being ingnored.

 

I'd be amazed if buying a pretty successful business (or relocating it), buying significant areas of land in the city and rerouting a road would only add £4 million onto the cost, I'd be keen to see where that number came from.

 

I'd also be keen to get your thoughts on how you'd expect the transport assessment to turn out as anything but significantly worse than the kingsford one given the transport links? If the TA for kingsford is being ripped apart despite heavy use of park and rides plus 2 dual carriageways to provide good access and egress I can only Imagine how bad it'd be without the quality of roads or amount of parking. Because we are moving it'd have to be a new TA too so saying it won't be any worse than before won't cut it.

 

It's also naive to think kings links would lead to permanent increases to attendance given nothing seems to help increase attendances in the current location, same goes for assuming theee will definitely be a decrease at kingsford given it'll make it easier for a large number of our support (admittedly offset with fans in the city centre having a slightly harder journey)

 

Also, am I wrong in remembering that the original study into kings links mentioned a lot more site preparation is required due to the make up of the soil?

 

The last survey put over half going to bars or restaurants before a game and I've not seen how this is accounted for or replaced at Kingsford. And we're talking 4000 more taking a bus with walkers turning to bus, bus to mostly two buses and driving to a bus. It's all unattractive stuff. The ghost town park and rides show that anyone with a car isn't going to do this or why aren't those in westhill and kingswells etc doing this now when the option is there. Anyone on a bus only would want it from basically their street to the ground as there is now, which is very underused as it is.

 

As far as I can see it would make it way harder for a lot more people except those driving to and parking in the small number of spaces next to the ground.

 

I was surprised there's only 20 ten people boxes in the plans when the RDS and main have a lot more and all the lounge and seat options. I was really expecting them to go most of the way around or two levels with skyboxes and the like that other stadiums of the same cost have and what I assumed Milne was most impressed by at Groningen.

 

The land at kingsford is 4 times the size of the golf centre and cricket pitch.

 

Regarding the TA there's 12 bus services dispersing in all directions on King Street and Golf Road according to the Pittodrie houses application. There are walking links and then buses to every corner of the world from union street which is half the distance of to Kingswells park and ride. Got the train as well. It passes every part of sustainability. The AWPR is also supposed to take heaps of traffic out of the city centre.

 

And I think if there was a proper stadium at Pittodrie there would be much higher attendances.

[tom_widdows]

The ghost town park and rides show that anyone with a car isn't going to do this or why aren't those in westhill and kingswells etc doing this now when the option is there. Anyone on a bus only would want it from basically their street to the ground as there is now, which is very underused as it is.

 

The Purpose of a Park & Ride system as I understand it is to allow people travelling from further afield to leave their car close to a city and travel the last few miles by bus/ train etc. It is not designed for people living next door to them to use as a car-park.

 

I don't know how many people actually commute to the city using the A944 but it always seemed bizarre to me that they chose to build Park & Rides there when it seemed to me they should be built off the A90 & A96 (Can't comment on the Road to Peterhead but is it fair to call Portlethen a Park & Ride?)

 

Perhaps it was some sort of incredible foresight by the Local Councils that someday there might be a large entertainment complex of some sort built in the area

 

There is also the stigma attached to bus travel in so many Western nations, a snobbery if you will that it is for the poor or the elderly and using it is some sort of admission that you are 'not as good as the rest of us'. Kick that into touch and you save yourself a fortune.

For me an example of a good bus network is Edinburgh (I only visit though so I will concede to any locals who have more experience) and I do have to wonder if making the centre extremely car-unfriendly has had something to do with that.

ACC on the other hand never seem to follow through with their plans to encourage public transport/ pedestrians/ Cyclists. Continuing to build/ extend shopping malls with large car-parks rather than looking at re-opening railway stations at say Cove, Kittybrewster, Bucksburn etc shows where the city is headed.

[RicoS321]

The last survey put over half going to bars or restaurants before a game and I've not seen how this is accounted for or replaced at Kingsford. And we're talking 4000 more taking a bus with walkers turning to bus, bus to mostly two buses and driving to a bus. It's all unattractive stuff. The ghost town park and rides show that anyone with a car isn't going to do this or why aren't those in westhill and kingswells etc doing this now when the option is there. Anyone on a bus only would want it from basically their street to the ground as there is now, which is very underused as it is.

 

As far as I can see it would make it way harder for a lot more people except those driving to and parking in the small number of spaces next to the ground.

 

I was surprised there's only 20 ten people boxes in the plans when the RDS and main have a lot more and all the lounge and seat options. I was really expecting them to go most of the way around or two levels with skyboxes and the like that other stadiums of the same cost have and what I assumed Milne was most impressed by at Groningen.

 

The land at kingsford is 4 times the size of the golf centre and cricket pitch.

 

Regarding the TA there's 12 bus services dispersing in all directions on King Street and Golf Road according to the Pittodrie houses application. There are walking links and then buses to every corner of the world from union street which is half the distance of to Kingswells park and ride. Got the train as well. It passes every part of sustainability. The AWPR is also supposed to take heaps of traffic out of the city centre.

 

And I think if there was a proper stadium at Pittodrie there would be much higher attendances.

 

I agree with yer first point, not so sure about yer last. I think both grounds would see a short term increase in attendances. I don't think either would be sustained. I reckon our crowds are about the right size for the league we play in. With 4 games a season against each team (I ken, top 6 etc), I think the attendances are dispersed over the season as there are few big games due to their regularity.

 

However, because of the reasons in your first point, I think attendances at Westhill would drop off significantly after 6-8 years unless something radical happens in the field of urban transportation. I don't necessarily think that's an unrealistic prospect either given technological advancement, but I wouldn't be betting my locating of a new stadium on it. At present, there seems little logic in the transportation strategy for Westhill. If I still lived in the centre of town, I would be hard-pressed to head out to Westhill on a shitey bus every week. I'd manage for a couple of seasons, but it really would give me an excuse to gie up my season ticket. As I'm South of the city, I'd drive, but I wouldn't be having 3 folk in my car. That'd likely mean having to pick someone up in town, which'd be a massive hassle.

 

Which is one of the big points that gets missed. Depending on who I'm gan to the fitba with, they're either North of the City, West End of the city, the city centre or BOD (fariver the fuck that is). It's easy to converge on the city centre and pick up on the way if required. If there's a 3 person limit on cars, then that's a huge turn off for me as I wouldn't be able to comply. I don't suppose I'm the only one who meets others arriving in different vehicles/buses etc from different locations. I'm assuming they couldn't police this at Arnhall, and so in turn the parking for X number of cars with 3 people becomes ever more unrealistic.

 

Anyway, ED you mention the (un)likelihood of people not going because of a small change in journey. I think that hugely underestimates the modern individual. A recent study I read by Microsoft and Google on the likelihood of websites being a success stated that by slowing a website down by 250milliseconds it will be abandoned over time. Convenience is paramount, that's how we've designed our society today (I'm not saying that's a good thing). Grown men actually go to the shops instead of the fitba today. It's fucked up, but out of sight out of mind  Pittodrie will have to buck a few trends in order to get more folks through the door in a sustained fashion.

[jess]

The Purpose of a Park & Ride system as I understand it is to allow people travelling from further afield to leave their car close to a city and travel the last few miles by bus/ train etc. It is not designed for people living next door to them to use as a car-park.

 

Anyone that lives in or near those areas and drives to Pittodrie, why aren't they taking the bus or driving to a park and ride and taking the bus? For the same reason, nobody is going to do the equivalent to westhill and it's pie in the sky. Relying on 6000 to 10000 doing that is madness and not a small change to get used to.

 

Regarding attitudes towards bus travel, I do it all the time and hate it because it's uncomfortable. Someone sitting next to you on a Stagecoach is very uncomfortable. Buses at full capacity going from Union Street up Queen's Road (...) is horrendous.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Anyone that lives in or near those areas and drives to Pittodrie, why aren't they taking the bus or driving to a park and ride and taking the bus? For the same reason, nobody is going to do the equivalent to westhill and it's pie in the sky. Relying on 6000 to 10000 doing that is madness and not a small change to get used to.

Because if you park at kingswells, you're still over 4 miles from the city centre, 20 minutes on the bus, and then of course 20 minute walk to Pittodrie. On weekdays, is the bus taking you where you even want to go?

 

Conversely, people going the other way will be parked 20 minutes walk away, or they take the P&E bus that final mile, which is considerably different.

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

 

The land at kingsford is 4 times the size of the golf centre and cricket pitch.

and this is a negative how? 

[jess]

Because if you park at kingswells, you're still over 4 miles from the city centre, 20 minutes on the bus, and then of course 20 minute walk to Pittodrie. On weekdays, is the bus taking you where you even want to go?

 

Conversely, people going the other way will be parked 20 minutes walk away, or they take the P&E bus that final mile, which is considerably different.

 

The X40 goes from the park and ride to Merkland Road and has 21 cars parked at it during a game.

 

and this is a negative how? 

 

It was replying to the cost of buying the land.

[jess]

Which is one of the big points that gets missed. Depending on who I'm gan to the fitba with, they're either North of the City, West End of the city, the city centre or BOD (fariver the fuck that is). It's easy to converge on the city centre and pick up on the way if required.

 

I don't understand this either from a bus or other modes perspective.

 

Just now I usually get a bus in and meet people who have walked and bussed from all over at whatever venue of choice and then work our way down to the game via various bars, shops and bookies.

 

Can't even work out what we're meant to do for Kingsford or what the day would be.