New stadium thread

[tom_widdows]

But surely those points you quoted - regardless of the messenger - are pretty valid points raised? Or, more correctly, questions unanswered.

 

I don't imagine ACC will just blindly pass this. For those in the know: is it likely there will be an approval subject to conditions or is it more likely, given the points raised by ACC, that they'd just reject it and leave it up to AFC to come back with better plans?

 

Planners can blindly reject if they want but that would lead to an appeal by AFC. If the appeal went far enough the whole thing could be taken out of the Council's hands depending on the arguments. The Council will not want that as they lose a large chunk of their control (Take a quick look at what happened around Codona's Amusement Park)

 

My opinion is as previously stated.

HFM & AFC will continue negotiations with the Planners until enough details are submitted/ changes made to allow a conditional planning consent to be issued.

Large chunk of the conditions will have 'no work may begin on site until <insert condition response> is agreed and approved in writing by ACC.

Other Conditions will basically say 'you are not allowed to use certain materials, exceed approved noise levels at certain times and so on

 

One the Planning stage is over there is still the little matter of Building Standards approval to negotiate which will cover a large chunk of the 'Technical' details people are crying out for.

Of course Building standards drawings are not open to the public so anyone wanting to see them would need to wait until they have been approved and then make an appointment with the council.

[jess]

It's a ridiculous idea building a stadium this far from the city centre.

Any park and ride, shuttle bus, monorail ideas are just "imagine if"

 

I accept I'm not the future of the AFC fan base but then again, I've never been likely to miss a game because it is raining or because I'm playing some computer game.

 

Millenials are conditioned to being able to do things straight away and having instant satisfaction, they've known nothing else.

 

If people can't be fucked with this park and ride stuff now we quite possibly could have crowds of 2 or 3 thousand in 2040 with an average age of 55.

 

Already people are finding streaming the game and cans at home better than being there. Add in this almighty bullshit, time and effort.

[Garlogie_Granite]

There's Hazlehead roundabout then one for those coming off Lang Stracht then the one for Kingswells?

I rather assumed he meant hazelehad straight.  You don't touch the lang Stracht roundabout coming from.hazelehead. 

 

The only roundabout you go through is the four mile kne (plus the temporary one)

[Garlogie_Granite]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aberdeen-chief-george-yule-dismisses-10113194

[Dunty]

George Yule stating they have no plan B, but that must be the club simply trying to put more pressure on the council. I'm convinced the club will have a plan B in place.

 

 

[RicoS321]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aberdeen-chief-george-yule-dismisses-10113194

 

What a fucking awful article and "interview" (I ken they're only regurgitating the EE one). The headline doesn't reflect what was said in article and Yule is given free reign to spout unquestioning shite. That's what journalism is these days, fucking corporate press releases.

 

"I keep hearing people say we should just stay where we are and redevelop Pittodrie.

 

"Their argument is based on sentiment, emotion and habit, and I get that. But it just can’t be done, for a whole bunch of reasons.

 

"There simply aren’t 30 acres of unzoned land available anywhere else within the city boundaries, so we can’t go anywhere else than Kingsford.

 

Absolute patronising pish from Yule. It is nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with lack of transparency and the simple fact that a lot of folk do not believe a chairman who has spent near on 20 years promoting a vision that most folk didn't agree with until very recently. We have a 12,000 figure (recently down from 12,500) with absolutely no supporting evidence and a transport plan that appears unsuitable at present. Genuine questions requiring genuine answers.

 

As for the 30 acres pish. That only stands up if we're going by the ludicrous notion that every stadium requires a training ground within 2 metres of it. Nobody is questioning the training facilities on their own. Nobody. It's disingenuous to spout that shite and he knows it. Nae his fault like, where the fuck are the supporting questions? Awful article.

[Garlogie_Granite]

George Yule stating they have no plan B, but that must be the club simply trying to put more pressure on the council. I'm convinced the club will have a plan B in place.

Why? Why would you waste money on something you don't want?

[RicoS321]

Why? Why would you waste money on something you don't want?

 

Exactly. They may have a contingency of training ground only, but no plan B for the stadium. They'd just re-visit later or appeal.

[manc_don]

What a fucking awful article and "interview" (I ken they're only regurgitating the EE one). The headline doesn't reflect what was said in article and Yule is given free reign to spout unquestioning shite. That's what journalism is these days, fucking corporate press releases.

 

Absolute patronising pish from Yule. It is nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with lack of transparency and the simple fact that a lot of folk do not believe a chairman who has spent near on 20 years promoting a vision that most folk didn't agree with until very recently. We have a 12,000 figure (recently down from 12,500) with absolutely no supporting evidence and a transport plan that appears unsuitable at present. Genuine questions requiring genuine answers.

 

As for the 30 acres pish. That only stands up if we're going by the ludicrous notion that every stadium requires a training ground within 2 metres of it. Nobody is questioning the training facilities on their own. Nobody. It's disingenuous to spout that shite and he knows it. Nae his fault like, where the fuck are the supporting questions? Awful article.

 

Can't say it was the best read, seemed very condescending. I guess it would probably be quite helpful for everyone if they released how they came to that conclusion.  If only to put it to bed.  I don't believe for one second that they haven't thoroughly carried this out but it needs to be done to get everyone behind the new proposals.

[jess]

What a fucking awful article and "interview" (I ken they're only regurgitating the EE one). The headline doesn't reflect what was said in article and Yule is given free reign to spout unquestioning shite. That's what journalism is these days, fucking corporate press releases.

 

Absolute patronising pish from Yule. It is nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with lack of transparency and the simple fact that a lot of folk do not believe a chairman who has spent near on 20 years promoting a vision that most folk didn't agree with until very recently. We have a 12,000 figure (recently down from 12,500) with absolutely no supporting evidence and a transport plan that appears unsuitable at present. Genuine questions requiring genuine answers.

 

As for the 30 acres pish. That only stands up if we're going by the ludicrous notion that every stadium requires a training ground within 2 metres of it. Nobody is questioning the training facilities on their own. Nobody. It's disingenuous to spout that shite and he knows it. Nae his fault like, where the fuck are the supporting questions? Awful article.

 

Exactly.

 

The bit about the support from the shire and the vote is just false. Very worrying if he actually thinks that and if he knows it's shite then he's a cunt for lying through his teeth to the fans.

 

Why believe the crap about 12,000 and so on when they tell such big porkies?

 

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

Absolute patronising pish from Yule. It is nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with lack of transparency and the simple fact that a lot of folk do not believe a chairman who has spent near on 20 years promoting a vision that most folk didn't agree with until very recently.

It is almost entirely everything about sentimentality. Do you want me to dig up the quotes from this thread alone? It's all about "Pittodrie's our home", "we should be in the city", we shouldn't be away out in the country" etc etc. That is exactly what he's on about.

[Dunty]

Exactly. They may have a contingency of training ground only, but no plan B for the stadium. They'd just re-visit later or appeal.

 

That was kinda my point. The training ground is a priority and a necessity. Should the stadium fall through (and by this I mean when all appeals have been exhausted) then surely plan B is to either re-submit at Kingsford with just the training ground, or look to the land at Loirston where they have permission to build.

 

Or, are they saying that if Kingsford fails then everything is off the table until they find land to build a dual facility, because that would be an act of stupidity as it could take years. If there is no land for it, then plan B has to be to split the two facilities and push ahead with the training ground.

 

The club must have some sort of contingency plan. Without the training ground the club will lose McInnes and many of the players.

[Garlogie_Granite]

That was kinda my point. The training ground is a priority and a necessity. Should the stadium fall through (and by this I mean when all appeals have been exhausted) then surely plan B is to either re-submit at Kingsford with just the training ground, or look to the land at Loirston where they have permission to build.

Not any more they don't.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Always amazes me. Aberdeen FC are an Aberdeen club, Aberdeen FC - based in Aberdeen. YET, lots of the clubs' lifelong fans (since the 60's me included) get shot down in flames when we speak out against moving from Pittodrie. 

 

Kingsford/Westhill/Kingswells/Elrick is NOT Aberdeen.  They are towns outside the city.

 

Fans of Hearts, Hibs (likewise at Everton) they simply would not accept under any circumstances moving outside the city away from the historic home of the club.  Hearts and Hibs are in the heart of the communities they have been since 1870's yet at Aberdeen they want to move to a farmers field that is not even in Aberdeen!

 

As regards this latest garbage in EE - the writer of the story (Charlie Allan) is one of George Yule's own circle of cronies.  Its a fabricated, contrived garbage piece of 'journalism'.  The EE is nothing but a propaganda tool for the club.

 

It has all become political - fake news near enough peddled by the club.

 

There are Hundreds of Dons against moving away from Pittodrie, we have just never had the chance to mobilise and speak out in unison about it.  Anytime we do (such as on here) we get shouted down, abused by fellow fans.

 

Its divided us - the whole thing.

 

On a final note the club HAVE been looking at alternate sites.  I would also bring your attention to previous club statement on the 'new stadium'.  Milne has been stating there is NO Plan B since 2004.  But Kingsford is Plan C!!

 

Also, since we are all Dons fans be afraid. According to Stewart Milne and George Yule the club WILL DIE if Kingsford does not get the go ahead.  Yes, that is right Aberdeen FC will die of we cannot move stadium.

 

That is the words of Yule and Milne and they have been peddling this since 2004.  And some on here get questioned for querying 'transparency'!!! Yule and Milne are like a couple of polticians - peddling trash and rubbish.

 

Liars.

 

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

It is almost entirely everything about sentimentality. Do you want me to dig up the quotes from this thread alone? It's all about "Pittodrie's our home", "we should be in the city", we shouldn't be away out in the country" etc etc. That is exactly what he's on about.

 

It isn't though, is it? I just gave you two good examples that are lacking transparency. There's nothing sentimental about either of those positions. Neither is there anything sentimental when saying that we should be in the city, and not way out in the country. That is obviously just good business - putting your business closer to the population centre (it's arguable of course, but not sentimental).

 

That was what my point was. Yule brings up sentimentality in response to non-sentimental questions. For every accusation of sentimentality, there are far, far more calls for us "to come together" and "move on" and so on (i.e. sentimental bollocks). Just take a casual glance at a Pittodrie press release or a DST one. Each side of that argument presents no fact and poses no questions, so they're equally sentimental and equally bullshit.

 

 

[Garlogie_Granite]

It isn't though, is it? I just gave you two good examples that are lacking transparency. There's nothing sentimental about either of those positions. Neither is there anything sentimental when saying that we should be in the city, and not way out in the country. That is obviously just good business - putting your business closer to the population centre (it's arguable of course, but not sentimental).

 

That was what my point was. Yule brings up sentimentality in response to non-sentimental questions. For every accusation of sentimentality, there are far, far more calls for us "to come together" and "move on" and so on (i.e. sentimental bollocks). Just take a casual glance at a Pittodrie press release or a DST one. Each side of that argument presents no fact and poses no questions, so they're equally sentimental and equally bullshit.

Sadly Rico, just as you're typing this, Heather/Charlie comes back with the biggest pile of sentimental poop, proving the point.

[RicoS321]

Sadly Rico, just as you're typing this, Heather/Charlie comes back with the biggest pile of sentimental poop, proving the point.

 

It doesn't prove any point. That was my point. There is no proof from 100% AK at all (unless they come back with the leaked evidence of poisonous landfill or the council offering land), as that spiel was sentimental bollocks. Just as there has been no proof in Yule's article, it in itself was either sentimental bollocks or unscrutinised shite. If you put an evidence-based-filter on either speech you'd be left with nothing. Which means the questions around 12,000 capacity and the transport issues remain unanswered.

 

Which gets to the heart of the matter, and I've said it a hundred times on the thread. We're making a once-in-a-hundred year decision here. I want to make an informed judgement. Yule's article doesn't grant me that.

 

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Imagine getting sentimental about your club.

 

Imagine getting all sentimental about the history and traditions of the club.

 

Football nowadays eh?

[Garlogie_Granite]

It doesn't prove any point. That was my point. There is no proof from 100% AK at all (unless they come back with the leaked evidence of poisonous landfill or the council offering land), as that spiel was sentimental bollocks.

Erm yes, exactly the/my point. Yule said the main arguments not for moving were sentimental, you (maybe it wasn't you?) said that no-one had a sentimental argument, even though this thread has been filled with it, and even as you were typing that, '100% W.A.N.K.S' ringleader came back with a load of sentimental bollocks.

[OxfordDon]

Erm yes, exactly the/my point. Yule said the main arguments not for moving were sentimental, you (maybe it wasn't you?) said that no-one had a sentimental argument, even though this thread has been filled with it, and even as you were typing that, '100% W.A.N.K.S' ringleader came back with a load of sentimental bollocks.

 

I think the point that Rico is making is that there's a bit of a logical fallacy going on here:

 

sentimentality does not equal argument

BUT

that does not mean all arguments equal sentimentality.

 

In other words, there's a lot of shyte being spouted on both sides grounded in nothing but sentiment, but that should not be used to obscure the fact there are valid arguments that need to be addressed too.

 

I think, to be honest, you are agreeing with each other 

[Dunty]

Not any more they don't.

 

In the updated local development plan it still has Loirston as a site available to build the stadium on. That and Kings Links are the two areas earmarked in the LDP.

 

 

[Tyrant]

It's a ridiculous idea building a stadium this far from the city centre.

Any park and ride, shuttle bus, monorail ideas are just "imagine if"

 

 

Is there a chance the track could bend?

[Garlogie_Granite]

In the updated local development plan it still has Loirston as a site available to build the stadium on. That and Kings Links are the two areas earmarked in the LDP.

Disingenuous......

 

"The local Development Plan identifies land at Calder Park (Opportunity Site OP80)

for a new stadium and sports facilities for Cove Rangers Football Club (CRFC). A

detailed planning application for the above proposal was submitted jointly by

CRFC and Aberdeen Football Club (AFC) in August 2011 and was approved by the

Council’s Development Management Sub Committee in January 2012. ACC have

subsequently taken control of the land at Calder Park previously leased to CRFC

and have issued a refusal of Landlord’s Consent for the revised development

proposals on the site, although there is an ongoing commitment to assist with

the club relocation. The proposed sharing of training facilities between CRFC and

AFC is therefore no longer possible and a final decision by AFC on the future

of their proposals is unknown at this time. For the purposes of this Framework,

it is assumed that proposals for each club will proceed in a similar form, albeit

without shared facilities. It is assumed however that any revised proposals for the

relocation of CRFC will require the provision of community facilities at Calder Park

which may be utilised by the existing communities at Cove, Nigg and Kincorth and

the proposed adjoining community at Loirston"

 

ie. It's a deid duck

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Hold on.

 

ACC have on several occasions tried to play ball with AFC as regards stadiums and sites for new stadiums.  Countless times.

 

Aberdeen FC simply do not want to play ball for whatever political reasons.  One of the clear economic reasons is that they do not want to have to pay Council for land.  The Council are desperate for cash - dying for funds and they have masses of land available far bigger than Kingsford.

 

Its so political this whole context its incredible.

 

They (AFC) want to make money out of selling land (Pittodrie) but they don't want to have to pay for land. 

 

One of the big problems with this whole 'new stadium' conundrum (may I remind you this all goes back to 1999) is that Aberdeen have a political agenda to move from Pittodrie at all costs for a 'House in the Hamptons'.

 

The club have REFUSED to collaborate with just about anyone other than potential private investors. 

 

However, collaboration should have been at the CENTRE of the Kingsford concept instead what they have done is rode slipshod over just about every local and regional planning policy, ignored fact that proper road and transport plans need to be in place and embarked on a political propaganda campaign that has alienated the community and Council surrounding the plans and angered lots of lifelong fans but calling us 'sentimental'.

 

Even if this gets approved by ACC the word mentioned was Holyrood might get called in - with a veto.

 

What they hell does George Yule know about stadiums? what is his expertise in football ground development?  I can tell him his plans for my club are basically shi*e - amateurish, cheap and nasty crap.

 

Everyone knows Pittodrie is past its sell by date currently.  But its past its sell by date and the pitch is terrible as the club have made every effort to make it crap by cutting off funding streams.

 

Pittodrie could have been developed piece by piece just like every other club have done years ago.  The club could be in a training ground now but they have chosen not to as the strategic direction they want to take is move from Pittodrie at all costs.

 

As regards this 'sentimental' argument.  WTF?  Following your club is a sentimental thing - yes!  Comments like that just show how out of touch George Yule and the people who run the club are with its fans.

 

Moving to Kingsford will entail masses of debt - a mortgage of what £30m? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sand dan Glokta]

Is there a chance the track could bend?

 

Not on your life, my Hindu friend.

 

It's starting to not look too good for the new development.

 

My main worry is the "No Plan B" that Yule has restated in the EE. So what will happen if it gets knocked back? We just stay at Pittodrie forever more?

 

All this minus Deek who said he would  be off if we don't get training facilities.