New stadium thread

[manc_don]

I'm not "siding" with him. I've only been skimming the thread but I think you missed the point of my rant.

 

This whole subject regarding a stadium move has been engineered by one man.

 

Pittodrie has been deliberately neglected for a very long time in furtherance of his agenda.

 

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong to move from Pittodrie. I just don't like the fact that it's one man's vision and that we, the fans, the customers, the ones who pay for it were never consulted. So when a naysayer starts naysaying, whether he's right, wrong, informed or misinformed, it offends those who "side" with authority every time and always trust those in charge and never question anything. The wolf may be bad but the sheep are why he can get off with wolfishness. That quote (by Orwell I think) about the deeds of evil men and how the evilness is standing by and letting it happen.

 

That's fair enough but not the point the poster has made. He's claimed that ACC have offered AFC land which they knocked back.  No proof of this has been produced along with countless other claims.  People are always welcomed and encouraged to have differing views but to pick out ED's post was what I disagreed with.  There was nothing wrong with what ED has said throughout the many pages of lengthy debate. There are no issues with questioning the club, as you say, we have to as there are unanswered questions.  We all want answers one way or another.

 

I think it's quite clear no-one is "sold" on the new stadium, but there are levels of disagreement as there naturally would be.  Hopefully the club resolves some of these issues that are concerning fans but it really is getting to the point where we need something and soon.  Not having suitable training facilities is laughable for a club of our size.  I like the idea of combined facilities, creates a solid hub for the club.

[tom_widdows]

I understand about the emergency routes and evacuation.

 

Hamilton, 6000 seats. Walkways and what's behind them included, in our footprint.

 

 

12,000. £40m. Sorry, I will die before I accept this.

 

I prefer the stands like those as well, on that point. Front row is a great view compared to not being able to see a thing.

 

Partick Thistle's north stand. 2,000 capacity. Half of it built in 2004 onwards I believe. Not as deep as our main stand.

 

 

Firhill North stand

1) Has two circulation routes.

    One at the Front between the seats and the advertisement boards

    One underneath the Seats accessed from within the stand by two Vomitories.

2) Both Circulation routes are accessed from a large open concourse between the stand and the turnstiles. This Space will act as a holding area in an emergency so evacuation can be controlled IE 2000 people are not immediately running onto Firhill Road blocking/ getting knocked down by Emergency vehicles.

3) Whilst the stand technically has only one entry point via Firhill Road (The Old Terrace was accessed from both Firhill Road & what is now known as Firhill Court) the open concourse also appears to provide access to circulation route along the front of the old Main stand. Fans could be directed this way should part of the concourse be required for Emergency vehicle parking.

 

Heres the thing about Firhill's redevelopment

 

1) Only the Main stand is constrained by a Collector Road. Try to redevelop that and they will face the same problems the Dons will.

2) All other access around the stadium was for the stadium ie no houses, flats etc needed it. See point 1

3) Partick had a larger footprint behind their old Terrace as it was curved like Hampden. So large in fact they were able to build a stand and sell land to a developer to build 4 Blocks of Student flats whilst still maintaining the necessary shared access road around the 3 sides of the stadium.

 

 

 

If you like I can tell you the reasons the opposite end of Firhill is not currently used.

 

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

If you like I can tell you the reasons the opposite end of Firhill is not currently used.

 

Because they're shite?

 

 

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Hold on a minute.

 

100%AKS is an ordinary AFC punter DESPITE knee-jerk reaction that I was Charlie somebody, some wifie from Westhill or whatever.  What has gone on here in reply to my original post/username is incredible.

 

To quote "He has been presented with questions which he has failed to produce answers for" - WTF is this Aberdeen Sheriff Court?  This is a football forum FFS not a case for the prosecution!

 

This is a forum, to quote another poster basically 'a load of words' and opinions from ordinary Aberdeen Fans - fans who like anything in life have a variety of views on whether its NHS, EU, SNP or in this case Kingsford.

 

I am not in the habit of fishing out MP3 clippets of audio to back when someone has said something.  In this case that 'someone' being the executives (Milne and Yule) who have in the past said that if the club (AFC) do not move it will be the end of the club and the fans will not have a club to support.

 

To deny they said this is not right - they said it not me on several occasions and in front of committees.

 

Everyone knows Pittodrie has been left to wrack and ruin for ages despite us being the leader in the UK in terms of Stadium development back in the 1970's.  Chris Anderson had the foresight to develop Pittodrie and the SPL concept long before anyone else did.  At the time we were crowned Premier League Champions 1980 the stadium was being developed.

 

For some reason since 1994 or so Pittodrie has been left to wrack and ruin.  Even the carpets in RDS are disgusting. While many can cope with that the manager is getting clearly hugely peeved with the state of the playing surface the one commodity he has a right to expect better of - is it too much too ask for dedicated ground staff to look after the field??? What excuse have the resident brown nosers got for that? 

 

Dundee are supposed to be moving yet they can have a perfect playing surface with beautiful grass.  Pittodrie pitch is a catastrophe.

 

Everything inside Pittodrie (match day experience, tiolets, pitch, floodlights, stands) is and has been responsibility for the club to upgrade these over a period of time - they have done nothing.

 

Against that I would remind you since 1999 (17 years) they have been driving a strategic concept to move stadium culminating in the current Kingsford fiasco - which is almost certainly going to get the dunt in June 2017?

 

How much has all these failed concepts cost in total - Loriston, Bellfield, Kinsgford - must be over a £1m?

 

What are the club execs going to do post June 20th spin this out another 17 years saying that want to move?  The manager is going to be pissed off and I can tell you all that the club will blame are people in Westill or blame the council.

 

THE BOARD WHO RUN THE CLUB NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY - THEY NEED TO DELIVER!

 

As regards 'upkeep costs' do you realise how much it will cost to upkeep, maintain and nurture multiple 3G pitches and the facilities at Kingsford especially in a place that will be very cold in winter. It will cost THREE times as much as they currently spend on Pittodrie.

 

Basically the club are going round in circles - round and round in circles pissing off the manager currently (he is not stupid he can see that Kingsford is going to fail) and all the club want to do is chase stupid stadiums in Westhill.

 

Meanwhile all the resident delusionalists on here want is 'actual evidence' for the prosecution.

 

Gullible idiots.

[OxfordDon]

tl:dr

[Edinburghdon]

I am not in the habit of fishing out MP3 clippets of audio to back when someone has said something.  In this case that 'someone' being the executives (Milne and Yule) who have in the past said that if the club (AFC) do not move it will be the end of the club and the fans will not have a club to support.

 

To deny they said this is not right - they said it not me on several occasions and in front of committees.

 

Who's asked you to provide audio clips? All that was asked was if you had anything at all to back up what you said... yet you've been unable to. If you choose to believe the club are going around telling anyone that'll listen that the club will definitely die if this development isnt approved then thats your choice, it's hysterical nonsense but you crack on.

 

Just one further point, when has the manager criticized the state of the surface? Thought it was in pretty good nick at the start of the season? Admittedly it was looking ropey after the heavy rain at the start of the year. If you're adding that to the rest of the points you've managed to dream up you crack on.

 

 

Meanwhile all the resident delusionalists on here want is 'actual evidence' for the prosecution.

 

Gullible idiots.

 

Imagine that... wanting to form opinions based on actual evidence or facts, it'll never catch on 

 

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Derek McInnes has on numerous occasions recently made reference to the very poor state of the Pittodrie pitch.  If you go to Pittodrie and have been recently it is in a very poor conditions.

 

He has amongst others said 'The players deserve a much better surface than that'.

 

No I have no MP3's to back this up.

 

The pitch is getting neglected like every other part of the stadium is being neglected.  Lack of investment.

 

 

 

 

[Edinburghdon]

Derek McInnes has on numerous occasions recently made reference to the very poor state of the Pittodrie pitch.  If you go to Pittodrie and have been recently it is in a very poor conditions.

 

He has amongst others said 'The players deserve a much better surface than that'.

 

No I have no MP3's to back this up.

 

The pitch is getting neglected like every other part of the stadium is being neglected.  Lack of investment.

 

Fair enough, I'll take your word for it given it's looked poor lately.

 

He's also been quoted in the not too distant past as saying how good a job the ground staff do too thought, considering the club spent a sizeable chunk of money relating the pitch just a couple of years ago I'd say it's unfair to claim the pitch is being neglected to any large degree.

[jess]

Firhill North stand

1) Has two circulation routes.

    One at the Front between the seats and the advertisement boards

    One underneath the Seats accessed from within the stand by two Vomitories.

2) Both Circulation routes are accessed from a large open concourse between the stand and the turnstiles. This Space will act as a holding area in an emergency so evacuation can be controlled IE 2000 people are not immediately running onto Firhill Road blocking/ getting knocked down by Emergency vehicles.

3) Whilst the stand technically has only one entry point via Firhill Road (The Old Terrace was accessed from both Firhill Road & what is now known as Firhill Court) the open concourse also appears to provide access to circulation route along the front of the old Main stand. Fans could be directed this way should part of the concourse be required for Emergency vehicle parking.

 

Heres the thing about Firhill's redevelopment

 

1) Only the Main stand is constrained by a Collector Road. Try to redevelop that and they will face the same problems the Dons will.

2) All other access around the stadium was for the stadium ie no houses, flats etc needed it. See point 1

3) Partick had a larger footprint behind their old Terrace as it was curved like Hampden. So large in fact they were able to build a stand and sell land to a developer to build 4 Blocks of Student flats whilst still maintaining the necessary shared access road around the 3 sides of the stadium.

 

 

 

If you like I can tell you the reasons the opposite end of Firhill is not currently used.

Cheers for explanations regardless if I disagree on whatever.

 

I'm almost certain Kingsford will be rejected which is why I'm looking at this.

 

Found Paderborn's stadium which is exactly what I was envisioning access and concourse wise and probably how most imagine a redeveloped 3 sides.

 

 

15,000 capacity cost £19.8m in 2008. A Polish team bought the same design because it was so cheap and did it for 10,000.

 

[donsdaft]

That looks fuckin dreadful.

[jess]

That looks fuckin dreadful.

 

It could look much better but it was the access I was referring to.

 

 

View wise I'd much rather see a game from basically any seat there.

[Garlogie_Granite]

That looks fuckin dreadful.

Agreed, utterly honking.

[tom_widdows]

Cheers for explanations regardless if I disagree on whatever.

 

I'm almost certain Kingsford will be rejected which is why I'm looking at this.

 

Found Paderborn's stadium which is exactly what I was envisioning access and concourse wise and probably how most imagine a redeveloped 3 sides.

 

 

15,000 capacity cost £19.8m in 2008. A Polish team bought the same design because it was so cheap and did it for 10,000.

 

 

Brand New Stadium on unconstrained plot of land

 

 

As opposed to existing stadium constrained by Housing, & Collector Roads.

 

 

 

If you are going to continue with 'This is how I see the redeveloped pittodrie looking', may I suggest you search for examples of redeveloped stadiums in constrained environments.

 

 

 

 

 

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Hearts, at this very moment, are building a new £10 stand that backs onto McLeod Street - an inner city street.  There is about a 5ft pavement separating the new stand from the road which is McLeod Street.

 

That is not to mention that the stadium is cramped in by tenements in Gorgie/Dalry and a new technologically advanced school on Mcleod Street and a pub on the corner (Tynecastle Arms).

 

May I remind people on here that they are rebuilding their home Tynecastle as 8,000 people put in £10 upwards a week into a direct debit foundation investing £5m in clubs future which is now reinvested in the stadia.

 

Tynecastle is about the most cramped in stadium in Scotland, cramped in by tenements, a main road (Gorgie Road), shops, homes and a school adjacent to the new stand.

 

That is not to mention one hundred year old utility lines (gas, electrics, BT) underneath the stand and in the streets which they now build on.

 

They (Hearts) have not found excuses and propaganda (as Aberdeen have) to not rebuild the traditional home - they have went and done it and its a reality in September.

 

Meanwhile at Aberdeen they will still be arguing over mythical stadium plans in Westhill come September, why Pittodrie CANNOT be rebuilt (funnily enough no one has ever produced facts as to why it can't) and still pissing about training on public parks.

 

Of course Pittodrie can be rebuilt - its utter garbage that has been peddled by the club since 1999.  They said that the former iconic gasworks could not be build on due to contamination and there are now flats on the very site which youth players and some staff live in!

 

Pittodrie cannot be rebuilt as the club want the £20m from its sale to build another place and put in place some ridiculous structured financial package to build a place that is not in Aberdeen.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Nobody can argue with that. Good post.

 

Was it not earlier than 99 when Milne proposed another site at Kingswells? The paint was barely dry on the RDS so it was insane to consider relocating in my view.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Naturally, yes Kingsford like all the stadia concepts for AFC are driven by Milne.

 

He did not get where he is, or make the money he has by not driving hard deals, buying land at knock down prices and building quick for sale houses.

 

He has made himself a Millionaire doing this.

 

On this occasion George Yule has been the patsy if you like for the whole thing.  Milne found the land, drove a deal and its been over to Yule to report to the board how its being delivered.

 

Now we are unstuck as the stadium design is in place but the infrastructure around it is a mess.  The club can muddle on fooling themselves and fighting plans, regulations and road realities or they can back off and come up with plan D.

 

There is no profit out for Milne over redeveloping Pittodrie.  He makes money out of buying land, developing houses.  What would he make out of redeveloping Pittodrie other than spending his own money?

 

There are so so many solutions to Pittodrie conundrum but unfortunately you have Milne driving an agenda to move to another location.

 

In this case he is simply not going to be able to at least not for years and years simply as Kingsford is a No No.

 

 

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

 

 

There is no profit out for Milne over redeveloping Pittodrie.  He makes money out of buying land, developing houses.  What would he make out of redeveloping Pittodrie other than spending his own money?

Oh here we go, a "Pittodrie for flats" conspiracist 

[OxfordDon]

Hearts, at this very moment, are building a new £10 stand that backs onto McLeod Street - an inner city street.  There is about a 5ft pavement separating the new stand from the road which is McLeod Street.

 

Are you talking about this stand?

 

[donsdaft]

Well, here's hoping we are still arguing about it in 10 years time.

 

LONG LIVE PITTODRIE

 

 

If they build a shitey stadium out in the sticks then it will be a disaster.

If they insist on moving out of town then they better come up with something people will be proud to travel to.

 

Something like Budapest's Groupama Arena would shut most of us doubters up.

 

Something that looks like a Stewartie Milne hoose with extra seats, then I'm watching on the telly.

[manc_don]

Are you talking about this stand?

 

 

Stop letting facts get in the way OD

[Edinburghdon]

Stop letting facts get in the way OD

 

 

It's a real shame nonsense like that and the milne conspiracy pish has taken over this thread, the discussion was pretty well thought out, balanced and informative until then.

 

Big  to yourself and Tom_widdows on explaining why developing pittodrie isn't feasible anymore, just wish the club would go into the same level of detail to finally put it to bed.

 

[Reidzer 1314]

Some interesting views in this thread.

 

Personally, I am all for the new stadium, the club badly needs new facilities, not just the stadium but the training facilities are vital.

 

Location wise, not really that bothered by the Kingford location, it wont be any different for me to hope in the car and swing round the AWPR to the new Stadium than it is currently for me to travel through the City Centre.

 

I tend to keep quiet on this matter as I see no sense in debating the stadium with anyone, we all have varied views and we can go back and forth until we were blue in the face. One thing I will say, is that the No Kingsford Group, although raising some valid points, have also spouted a load of old rubbish at times. Blood on the streets, urinating through letter boxes, fans running riot, property values diminishing...have these people been  to Pittodrie on a match day?!?

 

I seriously hope when the time comes that the Aberdeen City Council sees what Aberdeen FC does for this City and back them to the hilt.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

No Kingsford have not at anytime used these as valid arguments not for a stadium.

 

These have not been presented to the Council as valid reasons against the Concept.

 

Reasons put forward against the concept have been researched fully before the campaign began and include:

 

Road issues

Transport issues

Local Plan

 

As there is a big 'get facts right' ethos on here, please get your facts correct.

[donsdaft]

"Spout" was the word he used.

 

No doubt different language was used in an official document presented to the council as opposed to what was claimed while trying to get people to sign a petition.

[Garlogie_Granite]

No Kingsford have not at anytime used these as valid arguments not for a stadium.

 

These have not been presented to the Council as valid reasons against the Concept.

 

Reasons put forward against the concept have been researched fully before the campaign began and include:

 

Road issues

Transport issues

Local Plan

 

As there is a big 'get facts right' ethos on here, please get your facts correct.

garbage. Charlie Love stood up first at the big "NO" meeting, and spouted a load of hysterical shite, including all of the above, in order to scare the auld fogies into action. Many have put this sort of rubbish in their planning complaint if you care to wade through them.