New stadium thread

[Madbadteacher]

And do what exactly?

Bury 100% AK there?

[OxfordDon]

You back to trolling again then 100%AK?

 

First the claim that the ACC would give AFC land, then birds, now "corporate facilities"?

 

Only you are it implying would pay for the stadium singlehandedly.  Only you are mentioning an "injection of big corporate finance".  You're stirring for the sake of it, trying to make something stick.

 

For someone who claimed he was going to pick his ba up and go home in a huff, you do hang around for an affy long time, like a malignant shite that winnae flush.

 

 

[OxfordDon]

Rico - this should give you some idea of the size of the current revenue streams for AFC:

 

Turnover 2016 (£000)

 

Gate receipts 4023

Sponsorship & advertising 1801

Broadcasting rights 2322

Commercial 4678

UEFA Solidarity & prize money 552

Other operating revenue 38

 

Commercial is (AFAIK) merchandising, matchday hospitality, and corporate facility provision outside of matchdays. 

 

 

edit - cup/league prize money is the broadcasting rights stream

 

[Ten Caat]

Bury 100% AK there?

 

:rofl:

 

[OxfordDon]

Bury 100% AK there?

 

I hear local residents are already organising a "No to AntiKingsford" protest group

[jess]

And do what exactly?

 

 

No idea. Just throwing out a pie in the sky idea like 6000 on 3 routes.

 

But seriously, the alternatives are a bus shelter on the beach cricket pitch or a smaller, adequate Pittodrie.

[RicoS321]

Rico - this should give you some idea of the size of the current revenue streams for AFC:

 

Turnover 2016 (£000)

 

Gate receipts 4023

Sponsorship & advertising 1801

Broadcasting rights 2322

Commercial 4678

UEFA Solidarity & prize money 552

Other operating revenue 38

 

Commercial is (AFAIK) merchandising, matchday hospitality, and corporate facility provision outside of matchdays. 

 

 

edit - cup/league prize money is the broadcasting rights stream

 

Cheers. So we're pretty hefty already? My question/point was, perhaps badly put, have we already reached the limit of what we can earn from corporate? In order to answer that, it'd be useful to know the maximum we could earn from matchday corporate and the occupation percentages of the existing non-matchday corporate. I suspect we're pretty close to saturation point as it is based on my experience of the current RDS corporate. I'd doubt we get the RDS and Main Stand facilities used 5 days a week either. I've been to a few seminars and the like at Pittodrie outwith match day and it's been pretty quiet generally, but this obviously entirely anecdotal.

 

To answer 100%NK's concerns, really we just have to determine whether or not the additional corporate, ticket and prize revenue the club feels is possible would cover the cost of the mortgage. We'd probably be looking at about £1M per year over 35 years or something in mortgage.

 

I doubt our prize money is going to increase significantly from the last couple of years. I don't believe we'll get Europa league anytime soon. Sponsorship and advertising should increase, but that may depend on any deals on stadium naming rights, which might prevent other advertiser getting involved (lets say 10% increase for first ten years). Lets say gate receipts 20% (extra 3K fans??) and corporate get 10% increase over the first ten years. That's around £1.5M of increased revenue. Those figures would be heavily loaded toward the first 5 as the shiny new thing becomes less attractive. I think they're ambitious like, but nae impossible. Obviously, there'd be significant reductions in cost too. That'd easy cover the mortgage. We'd really be looking at player sales from our new training improvements to remain competitive and properly improve, which is no bad thing.

[jess]

A lot of adverts on the club's main facebook page for hospitality this season, one for a main stand box vs celtic 

[RicoS321]

A lot of adverts on the club's main facebook page for hospitality this season, one for a main stand box vs celtic 

 

The question is, is this indicative of the long term natural trend of corporate at AFC? Beyond the initial surge created by a new stadium. I suspect it is. I think we get a good return on our corporate facilities for a city our size.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Lets say gate receipts 20% (extra 3K fans??)

 

You really think the club will get an extra 3000 fans every fortnight? I don't - we have a better team than ever at the moment and struggle to get 12000 v Caley.

 

Celtic, Rangers 17k-19k - Ross County, Motherwell same old same old - 11,500 at each fixture. 

 

 

[Edinburghdon]

The question is, is this indicative of the long term natural trend of corporate at AFC? Beyond the initial surge created by a new stadium. I suspect it is. I think we get a good return on our corporate facilities for a city our size.

 

I'd completely agree, I doubt the plan is for any kind of significant increase in numbers, it's the improved efficiency etc that will boost the income.

[RicoS321]

You really think the club will get an extra 3000 fans every fortnight? I don't - we have a better team than ever at the moment and struggle to get 12000 v Caley.

 

Celtic, Rangers 17k-19k - Ross County, Motherwell same old same old - 11,500 at each fixture.

 

No, I missed some words. I meant to say 3K+ for a start tailing off to about +2K after 5 years. I think it'll be heavily front loaded, but I think we'll get that 20% target over ten years. I think we'll regularly sell out in our first 2 seasons and tail off after that. A lean period (on the pitch) after the first 5 years will really see how the location works out.

[rocket_scientist]

If you want to: -

sell more corporate, and

sell more tickets, and

sell more shirts, and

make more in broadcasting etc. and therefore make more money, it's quite simple.

 

Create a good enough product that the demand for it will be high.

 

Over TWENTY years ago, our chairman (who was then sitting to the right of our then chairman) said that "the product would always be the priority". He lied. It wasn't his priority before he seized power with less than 30% of the shareholding (that he paid less for than the rest of us), it hasn't been his priority for the last 20+ years and it will not be his priority in the future.

 

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Hearts have had a decrease in season ticket take ups already for 2017-18.

 

Down by 1,500 maybe?

 

That is despite the new stand.  They are not going to be getting 20,000 come September when it opens outside Hibs game.

[tom_widdows]

 

Plan D Phase 1 should be concentrating on getting a training pitch for the players to train on in a stable environment and Plan D (Phase 2) should be redeveloping our home in an inventive way via a form of proper financing just as every other club have managed to do including Hearts (who 2 years ago were in financial ruin).

 

 

That’s an interesting suggestion.  Let’s have a closer look

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clubs that have redeveloped at least 50% of their stadiums since the original Premier League was formed.

 

Hearts, Hibernian, Celtic, Kilmarnock, Ross County, Dundee United, Dunfermline, Raith Rovers, Dundee, Motherwell, Partick Thistle, Sevco.

 

Hearts

Proposed Relocations prior to 1990s redevelopment – 2

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules - 3

Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003

Proposed relocations following technical insolvency - 1

Told Romanov to GTF - No

Entered Administration & threatened with liquidation – May 2013

Relegations from premier  – 2013

 

Hibernian

Proposed Relocations prior to  redevelopment – 2

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s & Early 2000s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3

Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003. Forced to sell their best players and land around their stadium to stay afloat

Proposed relocations following technical insolvency - 1

Relegations from premier  – 1997 & 2013

 

Celtic

Proposed Relocations prior to  redevelopment – 1

Number of times threatened with Liquidation – 1 (1994)

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report– 3

Restricted views in redeveloped stands due to rushing them – Lots

 

Dundee

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 2

Proposed Relocations following redevelopment - 2

Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003.

Told Romanov to GTF - Yes

Administration – 2004 & 2010

Relegations from premier  – 2005 & 2013

Number of times stadium sold stay afloat - 1

 

Dunfermline

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3

Declared Technically insolvent – Autumn 2003.

Told Romanov to GTF - Yes

Relegations from premier  – 2007, 2012

Administration and winding up order – 2012

Relegated to third tier – Yes

Stands closed - 1

 

Raith Rovers

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3

Relegations from premier  – 1997

Stands permanently closed - 1

Relegated to third tier – Yes

Threatened with losing their stadium – Yes (2005)

 

Dundee United

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3.5

Relegations from premier  – 1995 & 2016

Stands closed on certain league games - 2

Rumours of Administration – Yes both before Thompson invested the family silver and now given their current predicament

Told Romanov to GTF - Yes

 

Motherwell

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3

Administration – 2002

Stands closed on certain league games - 1

 

Kilmarnock

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 3

Stands closed – 1

On brink of Administration – Allegedly the only thing keeping the club afloat is the Hotel.

 

Partick Thistle

Number of stands Redeveloped in 1990s & 2000s due to Taylor Report & SPL Rules – 2

Number of times threatened with Liquidation – 1 (1998)

Stands removed – 1 (Although Glasgow city council have now finally agreed to them building a 255-Seater stand at the open end)

Relegations from Premier – 1999, 2004,

Relegated to third tier – Yes

 

Sevco

Mostly done in the 1970s with a little bit done in the late 90s.

The 1970s development is one of the few noble things they have ever done and is one of the reasons they were nothing until Murray came along.

Administration – 2012

Liquidation – 2015

 

Ross County

Small well run club and not screwed by the 10000 seat rule.

Good luck to them

-------------------------------------------

 

Redeveloping your own stadiums in a properly financed way is clearly a piece of cake

 

[rocket_scientist]

 

That’s an interesting suggestion.  Let’s have a closer look...

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Redeveloping your own stadiums in a properly financed way is clearly a piece of cake

 

That's going to an extraordinary amount of effort to attempt to discredit someone... and failing to.

 

Do you have any opinion of your own? Big picture only.

[RicoS321]

Aye, you missed the most important one there Tom, and that's the dons. Re-developed RDS, no relegation, no liquidation, no admin.

 

Of course, there'd be St Mirren and St Johnstone who have been relegated since moving stadium.

 

There's probably no useful evidence either way if we're honest. I suspect most admins were down to huge overspending on players rather than stadium repairs.

 

But I realise you were just responding to a ridiculous suggestion from 100%AK.

[jess]

No, I missed some words. I meant to say 3K+ for a start tailing off to about +2K after 5 years. I think it'll be heavily front loaded, but I think we'll get that 20% target over ten years. I think we'll regularly sell out in our first 2 seasons and tail off after that. A lean period (on the pitch) after the first 5 years will really see how the location works out.

 

How is that going to happen? At this rate it will be £450-500 for a season ticket and match tickets near £30, certainly with paying for the stadium in mind. Add in the extra expense of travel for thousands of city fans or for a parking pass, never mind the fuck about with getting there. It's a tin shed in Westhill in the SPL that will be played in the same drizzle.

 

I don't see any way it would increase, only drop and very quickly.

 

One 54 minute wait for a bus to town and not even your home after a game would see to that.

[Edinburghdon]

How is that going to happen? At this rate it will be £450-500 for a season ticket and match tickets near £30, certainly with paying for the stadium in mind. Add in the extra expense of travel for thousands of city fans or for a parking pass, never mind the fuck about with getting there. It's a tin shed in Westhill in the SPL that will be played in the same drizzle.

 

I don't see any way it would increase, only drop and very quickly.

 

One 54 minute wait for a bus to town and not even your home after a game would see to that.

 

Out of interest, what are those prices based on?...

[jess]

Out of interest, what are those prices based on?...

 

£300 in 2013 £385 in 2017. Match ticket prices up £3. Circa £1m a year to pay for the stadium.

 

 

[RicoS321]

How is that going to happen? At this rate it will be £450-500 for a season ticket and match tickets near £30, certainly with paying for the stadium in mind. Add in the extra expense of travel for thousands of city fans or for a parking pass, never mind the fuck about with getting there. It's a tin shed in Westhill in the SPL that will be played in the same drizzle.

 

I don't see any way it would increase, only drop and very quickly.

 

One 54 minute wait for a bus to town and not even your home after a game would see to that.

 

Nah. It's a shiny new thing. At the very worst, the first season is going to be packed. Good performances on the pitch will see another couple of seasons of crowds that exceed the current crowds. I think you're underestimating the fickle pull of a new thing. I think the 40K cup final crowd is an indicator of how folk get on board for something different. I think there's a good chance that we can keep a healthy portion of fans if we play well in our first few years. However, I don't believe that's a good method for basing a decision to move from a city centre location though. We need to be thinking longer term than 5, or even 10, years. I think losing a city centre location should be an absolute last resort. It currently isn't.

[jess]

Nah. It's a shiny new thing. At the very worst, the first season is going to be packed. Good performances on the pitch will see another couple of seasons of crowds that exceed the current crowds. I think you're underestimating the fickle pull of a new thing. I think the 40K cup final crowd is an indicator of how folk get on board for something different. I think there's a good chance that we can keep a healthy portion of fans if we play well in our first few years. However, I don't believe that's a good method for basing a decision to move from a city centre location though. We need to be thinking longer term than 5, or even 10, years. I think losing a city centre location should be an absolute last resort. It currently isn't.

 

I don't see it. I don't personally know any big game charlies or passive fans or locker room merchants that have said they would go to westhill.

 

Frankfurt for instance are creating 10,000 more standing spaces to make it cheaper and to get more people through the door.

 

Other clubs build new or bigger stadiums to accommodate more fans.

 

Some build them in better locations or closer to their core support or for top of the range transport links.

 

We're building a stadium no one really likes in a place where 5% of our fans live and will be charging more to the same people currently going with two methods of getting there.

 

I've never seen any case for moving like this.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Anyone that thinks the cost of entry to watch football at Kingsford will 'go down' is a liar or gullible.

 

It's being built on debt not ready cash.

 

In addition (as someone mentioned) the costs of getting out to the place are another £5 (unless you live in Garlogie and funnily enough he thinks its a great idea).

 

Anyone actually think the 'shuttle buses' will be free? NO - you will be screwed for cash.

 

Facts seem to be a big thing on this thread.  There is facts, then there is optimism.  Kingsford is based on it seems people being 'positive' about it.

 

I am not positive about getting screwed for £29 at the gate and the other £5 to get to the feckin place!

 

The club mentioned it was going to have a 'standing section' like Celtic Park.  Look at the plans - not a sign of these.

 

Lies, lies, lies.

 

The club are at a high than they have ever been.  2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd and another 2nd this year. Cup finals, semi finals, Europa league.

 

We still cannot get over 11,000 most weeks.

 

The product on offer is rubbish - SPL is a small pool of nothing much. 

 

Its quite amazing the club wants to make such a gamble.  Further amazing is that people have fallen for it (unless you live in garlogie of course and you can walk there!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jess]

See the stuff about slightly increased prices and paying for a better view and shelter from the rain and concourses, I don't think that's what people - especially the awol 18-24 section of aberdeen fans - really care about at all.

 

All I want is a terrace with affordable tickets to watch football in real life in Aberdeen and beer. Much like why people go to gigs and clubs and festivals and Barry Hearn events. It's the lack of thrilling experience rather than comfort in a nice concourse that's causing us to miss out on tens of thousands of fans.

 

There's German regional south east division teams in the bottom half of the table getting 7,000 through the door because those 3 mainstays are provided.

 

That picture from the training game in Dubai has 200 standing on steps with a bottle of Heineken.

 

Take standing and beer away from Bundesliga games and charge €31 a ticket and they'd also be playing in front of 10,000 in silence.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Basically the people who run Scottish football are severely out of touch. You only have to look at German football from Bundesliga 1 - Bundesliga 3 level even down to Regionaliga level to see that Scotland is light years behind.