New stadium thread

[Edinburghdon]

 

It's being built on debt not ready cash.

 

 

Very true... what other option is there to have a suitable long term stadium without a mortgage? Even your daft/impossible rebuild pittodrie pipe dream will involve a mortgage.

 

 

 

Anyone actually think the 'shuttle buses' will be free? NO - you will be screwed for cash.

 

 

Who's said they would be free? Nobody from what I can tell... basing the cost on an underused service priced to try and make it profitable isn't really representative is it? Yes it'll cost, using that as a huge negative without having the slightest clue about how much proper shuttles will cost is bordering on hysterical, assuming the worst possible scenario.

 

 

 

The club mentioned it was going to have a 'standing section' like Celtic Park.  Look at the plans - not a sign of these.

 

Lies, lies, lies.

 

Nothing like twisting the truth... the club have said they'll see how the trial Celtic are carrying out goes before committing, pretty sensible don't you think? Plenty time to tweak it if it's shown to work, the licensing is sorted out and there's the need. Carry on misinterpreting what's said and droning on about lies though 

[Edinburghdon]

I think losing a city centre location should be an absolute last resort. It currently isn't.

 

Isn't it? What other viable, affordable options are there?

[RicoS321]

Isn't it? What other viable, affordable options are there?

 

We've got a fully functioning existing stadium. We've got the option of a 12K stadium. We've got the location, we could easily sit tight and see if building materials, techniques and options begin to change (do the architects in the audience genuinely not believe we'll move into a completely new era in building design with additive manufacturing and material science within the next decade or so - i.e. whilst we're still paying off a mortgage?). Pittodrie will easily last ten years or more. Accept that we don't need to go full steam into a project for a new stadium just for the sake of having a new stadium if it's nae in the right place and doesn't make us better off in the long term. Have the balls to say it's not the right move and we're not just going to do it because it's been one man's vision for the last 20 years. In the meantime, go full steam ahead with the training facilities and start churning out the next Willie Millers's and such like.

[Edinburghdon]

We've got a fully functioning existing stadium. We've got the option of a 12K stadium. We've got the location, we could easily sit tight and see if building materials, techniques and options begin to change (do the architects in the audience genuinely not believe we'll move into a completely new era in building design with additive manufacturing and material science within the next decade or so - i.e. whilst we're still paying off a mortgage?). Pittodrie will easily last ten years or more. Accept that we don't need to go full steam into a project for a new stadium just for the sake of having a new stadium if it's nae in the right place and doesn't make us better off in the long term. Have the balls to say it's not the right move and we're not just going to do it because it's been one man's vision for the last 20 years. In the meantime, go full steam ahead with the training facilities and start churning out the next Willie Millers's and such like.

 

We've a (barely) fully functional stadium just now I'll give you that, saying it'll easily last 10 years or so more is a bit of a stretch though, the place is falling to bits and will only get worse. Would you really throw good money after bad to try and keep it going in the hope we can miraculously stumble upon a new technique to allow us to build something suitable on the existing site? Would any number of new materials etc address the fundamental lack of space taking the regulations for access/egress into account?

 

A 12k stadium would be ridiculously small too, surely you can't truly believe it's a viable option if the club hopes to maintain its current level let alone progress?

 

Agree about the full steam ahead with the training facilities, going on what I've read from those more clued up than I am on these kind of things means I really can't see any alternative but moving the stadium though, regardless of whether it's kingsford or elsewhere. That ship seems to have sailed a long time again sadly.

[donsdaft]

Who's said they would be free? Nobody from what I can tell... basing the cost on an underused service priced to try and make it profitable isn't really representative is it? Yes it'll cost, using that as a huge negative without having the slightest clue about ho

 

 

 

 

Me, I say they have to be free.

 

I believe if you buy a ticket for a German game then public transport is included.

 

That doesn't mean that they put up the price of a ticket to include transport, just that the transport is free.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

"Pittodrie is falling to bits"

 

Not it is not.

 

It is perfectly working conditions, UEFA Category 3 and has all the facilities required as stipulated by UEFA.

[Obanred]

It's not exactly "state of the art" !! Nor even reasonably modern.

 

It is a relic, a bottomless pit to throw money at.

 

I challenge you AK 100 to come up a "feasible" plan for the existing Pittodrie site !!

 

Don't just say "It can be done" . Give me figures, dimensions etc to back your arguments up with.

 

I don't know exactly what the new UEFA requirements are for stadia, but i would be interested ex to find out.

 

We need an new / modern stadium to move forward, whether that be at Pittodrie or Kingsford.

[tom_widdows]

"Pittodrie is falling to bits"

 

Not it is not.

 

It is perfectly working conditions, UEFA Category 3 and has all the facilities required as stipulated by UEFA.

 

Category 3 you say?

 

Interesting. That means Pittodrie cannot be used for Europa League Group Matches or Champions league playoffs/ group games (Category 4 stadiums only)

[Edinburghdon]

"Pittodrie is falling to bits"

 

Not it is not.

 

It is perfectly working conditions, UEFA Category 3 and has all the facilities required as stipulated by UEFA.

 

It was only a week or so ago you were slating the club for letting the stadium (and pitch) fall into such a serious state of disrepair, now it's not only fine but will be for the foreseeable future. 

 

It may be functional just now, anyone with eyes can see it's not going to remain that way for any significant period of time. I'd have dearly loved to have a modern, suitable stadium that'll last us years and let us progress at pittodrie, that ship seems to have sailed a long time ago though.

 

Category 3 you say?

 

Interesting. That means Pittodrie cannot be used for Europa League Group Matches or Champions league playoffs/ group games (Category 4 stadiums only)

 

  I hope you don't expect any kind of fact to be taken on board do you?

[Edinburghdon]

Who's said they would be free? Nobody from what I can tell... basing the cost on an underused service priced to try and make it profitable isn't really representative is it? Yes it'll cost, using that as a huge negative without having the slightest clue about ho

 

 

 

 

Me, I say they have to be free.

 

I believe if you buy a ticket for a German game then public transport is included.

 

That doesn't mean that they put up the price of a ticket to include transport, just that the transport is free.

 

Not 100% sure if it's free across the board, it could well be though. l know it's free for the big teams etc. The way it's handled in Germany is fantastic, really hope they try to follow suit. The infrastructure in Germany in general is lightyears ahead of anything in this country.

 

It doesn't mean it will or even has to be free though, a cheap reliable set up would do for me... surely not a stretch of the imagination.

[jess]

 

Who's said they would be free? Nobody from what I can tell... basing the cost on an underused service priced to try and make it profitable isn't really representative is it? Yes it'll cost, using that as a huge negative without having the slightest clue about how much proper shuttles will cost is bordering on hysterical, assuming the worst possible scenario.

 

 

Nothing like twisting the truth... the club have said they'll see how the trial Celtic are carrying out goes before committing, pretty sensible don't you think? Plenty time to tweak it if it's shown to work, the licensing is sorted out and there's the need. Carry on misinterpreting what's said and droning on about lies though 

 

I'd say every single thread of arguments I've seen on social media has included someone saying how will we get there and the response from the 20 yes supporters who jump on the person's case is the club will be putting on buses.

 

The other almost universally held belief (from those who support it for this reason) is there will be at least a whole end circa 4,000 or even the length of the pitch or both ends standing with cheaper tickets.

 

I'd like to know why anyone thinks what is planned is reasonable and what we're aiming for.

 

The dream in everyone's heads and the base of basically every DST survey spiel response is

 

Good transport links

Cheaper tickets

Standing

Booze outside the ground and eventually in it

 

Therefore we must be building a stadium with links to everywhere (the city centre), full of cheap standing tickets to get it filled and with a club boozer and outside terrace. Anything else is simply not right.

 

Make it easy to get to, make it affordable, make it enjoyable and they will come. This, I don't know what the aim is.

[Edinburghdon]

I'd say every single thread of arguments I've seen on social media has included someone saying how will we get there and the response from the 20 yes supporters who jump on the person's case is the club will be putting on buses.

 

The other almost universally held belief (from those who support it for this reason) is there will be at least a whole end circa 4,000 or even the length of the pitch or both ends standing with cheaper tickets.

 

I'd like to know why anyone thinks what is planned is reasonable and what we're aiming for.

 

The dream in everyone's heads and the base of basically every DST survey spiel response is

 

Good transport links

Cheaper tickets

Standing

Booze outside the ground and eventually in it

 

Therefore we must be building a stadium with links to everywhere (the city centre), full of cheap standing tickets to get it filled and with a club boozer and outside terrace. Anything else is simply not right.

 

Make it easy to get to, make it affordable, make it enjoyable and they will come. This, I don't know what the aim is.

 

The club have said they will put on buses, That's different to saying they'll be free though. I've not seen a single person claiming they will be either. Maybe I've just not seen it every time it's mentioned,  been trying to keep out of this lately as I've had better things to do.

 

As for standing, the clubs already said there may well be depending on how the Celtic trial goes. To say it's a universally held belief that an entire side or end will be standing is nonsense from what I've seen, maybe I've missed that being mentioned in every arguement too though...

 

As for the wish list:

 

The transport links needs work, completely agree there. I don't think it's as bad as some make out though and will be fine in time. Given the lack of suitable alternative in the city centre it's a case of being as good as possible rather than anything perfect.

 

Standing I've mentioned above.

 

Cheaper tickets, well it's been the case for years that tickets should be cheaper, same goes for the current stadium. Any new development has to be funded so that there's no increase st the very least.

 

Booze inside the stadium isn't really in the clubs hands is it? They've included a supporters bar in the plans to help with the booze outside the stadium though.

 

Saying it needs to be city centre is all well and good but where's the suitable site coming from?! I've yet to see a single site that's not been shown to be unfeasible on here let alone under the scrutiny of any kind of full study.

 

The basis of ticking a lot off that wish list is there. It just needs to be developed.

 

Making it easy to get to and affordable is a challenge but it's obviously the aim. Making sure the site whether it's kingsford or Loriston or anywhere gives us proper facilities and ticks as many boxes as possible is what the club seems to be trying to do from what I can see.

 

[tom_widdows]

That's going to an extraordinary amount of effort to attempt to discredit someone... and failing to.

 

Do you have any opinion of your own? Big picture only.

 

Pittodrie in its current state is done. All 4 stands actually have restricted view seats (thank to UEFAs pitch requirements) and installing a pitch which will reinstate the original RDS site lines and future proof against UEFA changing their minds again reduces the space available for new stands.

Even demolishing the whole thing and rotating the pitch is unlikely to maintain the 20000 seats all thanks to those flats behind section Y.

 

 

I believe that if the club had announced they were going to redevelop the stadium and reduce the capacity to 12-13000 there would have been an outcry from the fans and calls for a new stadium to be built.

A Case of damned if they do damned if they don't.

 

For the club to approach investors/ banks to loan the money to rebuild pittodrie with a business plan that showed they were reducing both their major income streams would put them on the back-foot straight away.

 

Kingsford on paper does not appear to be an ideal location but the venom it has drawn from some people is concerning. I recall opposition to Loriston but not on the same level and for me the underlying factor was 'I don't care what anyone says, Pittodrie is fine and I don't want the club to move no matter what happens'

 

Loriston was my preferred choice but then the 'little aberdeen council' mentality kicked in and screwed it up. Doesn't matter that the local plan keeps mentioning it, the council showed their colours when they revoked the training facilities/ new cove stadium portion.

If the club moves I will adapt my travel plans on the rare occasions I make it to home games be it at Cove, West Hill, Bridge of Don Dyce or wherever.

Maybe knowing I will have a clear view of the entire pitch whilst retaining my knee caps, staying reasonably dry and not developing hypothermia will make the prospect of shelling out the usual £60 it costs me to attend home games more appealing.

 

I always felt the club had a hardcore support who will support them no matter what but if moving stadium is all it takes for people to turn their backs then we have much bigger problems than shuttle buses and car parking

 

 

 

[jess]

The club have said they will put on buses, That's different to saying they'll be free though. I've not seen a single person claiming they will be either. Maybe I've just not seen it every time it's mentioned,  been trying to keep out of this lately as I've had better things to do.

 

As for standing, the clubs already said there may well be depending on how the Celtic trial goes. To say it's a universally held belief that an entire side or end will be standing is nonsense from what I've seen, maybe I've missed that being mentioned in every arguement too though...

 

As for the wish list:

 

The transport links needs work, completely agree there. I don't think it's as bad as some make out though and will be fine in time. Given the lack of suitable alternative in the city centre it's a case of being as good as possible rather than anything perfect.

 

Standing I've mentioned above.

 

Cheaper tickets, well it's been the case for years that tickets should be cheaper, same goes for the current stadium. Any new development has to be funded so that there's no increase st the very least.

 

Booze inside the stadium isn't really in the clubs hands is it? They've included a supporters bar in the plans to help with the booze outside the stadium though.

 

Saying it needs to be city centre is all well and good but where's the suitable site coming from?! I've yet to see a single site that's not been shown to be unfeasible on here let alone under the scrutiny of any kind of full study.

 

The basis of ticking a lot off that wish list is there. It just needs to be developed.

 

Making it easy to get to and affordable is a challenge but it's obviously the aim. Making sure the site whether it's kingsford or Loriston or anywhere gives us proper facilities and ticks as many boxes as possible is what the club seems to be trying to do from what I can see.

 

The belief is that the buses would be free or included with the match ticket or when that falls apart moves to they won't cost £5+. They would if they were being hired and that's what a public bus costs anyway.

 

The line about the Celtic trial was very odd and to me a clear downplaying of standing or the size of it. There are no rules now about standing or the type required, and the stuff about the councils and safety certificate - there's no brouhaha over it at all at any lower division clubs.

 

Booze in the stadion - the club tell DST they support it returning and give lines like welcoming looking at the issue when asked by the press. Scotland's 2nd force, along with Celtic calling for it, could have it on the table and done if they wanted to. They did it for rugby 10 years ago. It's not going to change for as long as Aberdeen act like wallflowers.

 

Has the enormous space next to Seaton towers been found unfeasible?

[Edinburghdon]

The belief is that the buses would be free or included with the match ticket or when that falls apart moves to they won't cost £5+. They would if they were being hired and that's what a public bus costs anyway.

 

The line about the Celtic trial was very odd and to me a clear downplaying of standing or the size of it. There are no rules now about standing or the type required, and the stuff about the councils and safety certificate - there's no brouhaha over it at all at any lower division clubs.

 

Booze in the stadion - the club tell DST they support it returning and give lines like welcoming looking at the issue when asked by the press. Scotland's 2nd force, along with Celtic calling for it, could have it on the table and done if they wanted to. They did it for rugby 10 years ago. It's not going to change for as long as Aberdeen act like wallflowers.

 

Has the enormous space next to Seaton towers been found unfeasible?

 

I've not seen any mass claims about free buses, suspect you're generalising based on a couple of wildly optimistic comments. Basing the costs on existing public transport costs for a route that's very much under used and priced in a way to try and make it economical isn't really representative either. The simple truth is nobody knows what it'll cost until it's properly costed. I'd reckon It stands to reason buses operating closer to capacity can be run at a cheaper price than the current almost empty service but that's just how I see it though.

 

As far as I'm aware as well a standing area requires a different licence, something which Celtic have for a trial to see how it works. There are also rules on the design of safe standing areas etc too so you're wife of the mark there. I can't see why the club saying they're keen for standing and they'll evaluate further once they see how it works in reality is downplaying anything, you're just twisting things to suit your agenda now. They've said time and time again there will be a safe standing area if it works.

 

It'll take more than the club supporting it to get booze in the stadium, it'll require police and government support, can you really see it changing any time soon? Also you mentioned beer at German games before, isn't that still very low alcohol (I.e near enough non alcoholic) beer served in Germany? Certainly was last time I was there..which is near enough pointless to be honest.

 

No idea about seaton, haven't looked into it but suspect it'd have the same drawbacks as kings links and would still require buying the golf course.

[Garlogie_Granite]

I don't see it. I don't personally know any big game charlies or passive fans or locker room merchants that have said they would go to westhill.

Well this "big time charlie" will be upping from c.10 games a year (plus big time charlie games) to a season ticket. I work in an office of four, one BoD supporter who goes less than me who thinks he'll go about the same as now. Another non-attender who expects to get a season ticket (lives up the hill in Westhill) and a wifie with no interest in fitba. So, anectodes, meh.

 

 

 

 

How is that going to happen? At this rate it will be £450-500 for a season ticket and match tickets near £30, certainly with paying for the stadium in mind. Add in the extra expense of travel for thousands of city fans or for a parking pass, never mind the fuck about with getting there. It's a tin shed in Westhill in the SPL that will be played in the same drizzle.

 

I don't see any way it would increase, only drop and very quickly.

 

One 54 minute wait for a bus to town and not even your home after a game would see to that.

...not forgetting the lesser expense for many too, and shorter easier travel than fighting your way to the beach.

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

 

Its quite amazing the club wants to make such a gamble.  Further amazing is that people have fallen for it (unless you live in garlogie of course and you can walk there!)

...or western side of city/anywhere in the country, where suddenly travelling to fitba will be hugely easier.

[Garlogie_Granite]

"Pittodrie is falling to bits"

 

Not it is not.

 

It is perfectly working conditions, UEFA Category 3 and has all the facilities required as stipulated by UEFA.

The main stand alone cost £300k a year to maintain, the south is horrendous, and the upper RDS has restricted view of the beach end goal. It's a fucking dreadful stadium.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

£300k a year to maintain Main Stand.

 

That is utter pie in the sky garbage.

 

As for the South Stand - there is not much to maintain apart from seats which get broken regularly by away fans and away teams pays for it anyway.

 

Aberdeen FC employ an all trades handy man to do work.  Its amazing what you can do with paint brush, screwdriver and hammer.

 

He gets paid mimimum wage.

[Edinburghdon]

£300k a year to maintain Main Stand.

 

That is utter pie in the sky garbage.

 

As for the South Stand - there is not much to maintain apart from seats which get broken regularly by away fans and away teams pays for it anyway.

 

Aberdeen FC employ an all trades handy man to do work.  Its amazing what you can do with paint brush, screwdriver and hammer.

 

He gets paid mimimum wage.

 

Maintenance is shown in the accounts if you care to check.

 

I suspect there's significantly more involved in the maintenance required to maintain a safety certificate too although I'm sure one of the more clued up posters could explain exactly what is involved.

 

But aye you crack on with your nonsense 

[jess]

I've not seen any mass claims about free buses, suspect you're generalising based on a couple of wildly optimistic comments. Basing the costs on existing public transport costs for a route that's very much under used and priced in a way to try and make it economical isn't really representative either. The simple truth is nobody knows what it'll cost until it's properly costed. I'd reckon It stands to reason buses operating closer to capacity can be run at a cheaper price than the current almost empty service but that's just how I see it though.

 

As far as I'm aware as well a standing area requires a different licence, something which Celtic have for a trial to see how it works. There are also rules on the design of safe standing areas etc too so you're wife of the mark there. I can't see why the club saying they're keen for standing and they'll evaluate further once they see how it works in reality is downplaying anything, you're just twisting things to suit your agenda now. They've said time and time again there will be a safe standing area if it works.

 

It'll take more than the club supporting it to get booze in the stadium, it'll require police and government support, can you really see it changing any time soon? Also you mentioned beer at German games before, isn't that still very low alcohol (I.e near enough non alcoholic) beer served in Germany? Certainly was last time I was there..which is near enough pointless to be honest.

 

No idea about seaton, haven't looked into it but suspect it'd have the same drawbacks as kings links and would still require buying the golf course.

The X17 is £5.90 return and almost every bus is completely full including standing from Westhill to Union Square and back in the morning and evening.

 

If any club gets promoted now such as Queen of the South they won't have to install anything and this is their terrace where licenses don't seem to be any issue.

 

 

It's only UEFA that require seats and there's loads of cheap different ways used across europe.

 

Beer in German stadiums I've been in is normally pilsener. Labour and the Tories support alcohol at football now and the nanny section of the SNP do not have a majority and some of their MSPs have even campaigned for it. Really bring the issue into focus and it will be done. Give little murmurings when asked by the press and it's not going to change ever. It needs pressure.

 

Don't know why it would require the golf course and there seems no problem with the high rises next door.

[Edinburghdon]

The X17 is £5.90 return and almost every bus is completely full including standing from Westhill to Union Square and back in the morning and evening.

 

Well that's not been my experience any time I've used it but ok let's assume every bus is jam packed during rush hour. Do they only run during rush hour? Nope... the prices will reflect that, propping up the times the buses are basically empty so that the service is even remotely economical. Now if there's a proper shuttle service with a much higher utilisation per bus don't you think they could be much cheaper if the drive is there to do it? I'd have thought that's fairly common sense. Relies on it being done properly though admittedly.

 

 

If any club gets promoted now such as Queen of the South they won't have to install anything and this is their terrace where licenses don't seem to be any issue.

 

 

It's only UEFA that require seats and there's loads of cheap different ways used across europe.

 

That's not really true, safe standing is allowed however has to be the rail type seating only from what I can tell, you also need a different type of licence to have a safe standing area if you've already got an all seater stadium. Probably not a huge deal but would still be applied for and accepted by all parties (football authorities and councils)

 

So yeah QotS could still use their terraces but they'd need to install rail type seating for it to be used in the majority of the competitions they'd be in.

 

Regardless of how many types of cheap safe standing are used throughout Europe it's only the rail type seating permitted in Scotland. They'd need to be locked open for all European competitions going on the link below. (Note the cost difference too, kind of blows the cheap point out of the water, although I do agree we need a safe standing area.

 

https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/celtic/289210-explained-how-safe-standing-would-work-in-scotland/

 

 

Beer in German stadiums I've been in is normally pilsener. Labour and the Tories support alcohol at football now and the nanny section of the SNP do not have a majority and some of their MSPs have even campaigned for it. Really bring the issue into focus and it will be done. Give little murmurings when asked by the press and it's not going to change ever. It needs pressure.

 

It doesn't matter what aberdeen say about booze at football, it'd take a huge change for it to be brought back, one club won't force that issue.

 

Don't know why it would require the golf course and there seems no problem with the high rises next door.

 

I'd imagine it's the space available firstly, can't imagine there's enough land feee without using at least some of the golf course, again some of the more clued up posters could confirm but with access/egress, the stadium and space around it required before you even look at any fan facilities outside it seems like a lot to fit in and not much space without the golf course etc.  Hardly the "enourmous" space you're making out if we exclude the course anyway.

 

[tom_widdows]

If any club gets promoted now such as Queen of the South they won't have to install anything and this is their terrace where licenses don't seem to be any issue.

 

 

It's only UEFA that require seats and there's loads of cheap different ways used across europe.

 

Using an existing Terrace is one thing. Installing a new Terrace is another one.

The Terraces at Palmerston are from pre Hillsborough and as such will be heavily regulated/ licensed in terms of capacity. In fact it is currently limited to 5313 (split over 2 stands one of which was only re-opened in 2014).

Qots record attendance is more than 25000 and yet they have only redeveloped 2 stands since then both of which are very small.

 

If teams are looking for permanent new terraces (Not the safe standing convertible seats) these are some examples what the regulations currently permit

 

Bucks Head Stadium, Telford

 

Forthbank, Stirling

 

Note the design of the 'crush' barriers, and the height & number of steps between them

 

Compare that to Palmerstons Kop (Largest terrace in scotland)

 

Or Wrexham's Kop (Largest Terrace in the UK)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jess]

Well that's not been my experience any time I've used it but ok let's assume every bus is jam packed during rush hour. Do they only run during rush hour? Nope... the prices will reflect that, propping up the times the buses are basically empty so that the service is even remotely economical. Now if there's a proper shuttle service with a much higher utilisation per bus don't you think they could be much cheaper if the drive is there to do it? I'd have thought that's fairly common sense. Relies on it being done properly though admittedly.

 

I'd have thought in that circumstance it would not be cheaper or perhaps more expensive given it could only hold the capacity of the bus once in a direct trip with not much scope for anything else.

 

That's not really true, safe standing is allowed however has to be the rail type seating only from what I can tell, you also need a different type of licence to have a safe standing area if you've already got an all seater stadium. Probably not a huge deal but would still be applied for and accepted by all parties (football authorities and councils)

 

So yeah QotS could still use their terraces but they'd need to install rail type seating for it to be used in the majority of the competitions they'd be in.

 

Regardless of how many types of cheap safe standing are used throughout Europe it's only the rail type seating permitted in Scotland. They'd need to be locked open for all European competitions going on the link below. (Note the cost difference too, kind of blows the cheap point out of the water, although I do agree we need a safe standing area.

 

https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/celtic/289210-explained-how-safe-standing-would-work-in-scotland/

 

When the SPFL took over in 2013 they removed basically every stadium requirement. Neil Doncaster article in the Herald in February talking about standing where he says Arbroath and Ayr are two of his favourite grounds.

 

 

It doesn't matter what aberdeen say about booze at football, it'd take a huge change for it to be brought back, one club won't force that issue.

 

Clubs will have to force it in the press to make it into parliament or there is no way it is ever going to randomly happen.

 

I'd imagine it's the space available firstly, can't imagine there's enough land feee without using at least some of the golf course, again some of the more clued up posters could confirm but with access/egress, the stadium and space around it required before you even look at any fan facilities outside it seems like a lot to fit in and not much space without the golf course etc.  Hardly the "enourmous" space you're making out if we exclude the course anyway.

 

I suspect it's where the council may have said a stadium could go, with all the allusions about Seaton and regeneration and since it's been noted as a potential place for a football academy in previous city plans.

 

 

Using an existing Terrace is one thing. Installing a new Terrace is another one.

 

Yes, and given clubs like St Mirren saying they can't have safe standing because of the architecture and others not being able to have it because it needs the weight spread evenly and not having the correct exits, why are we not planning for that?

 

Exeter's relatively new terrace...all that anyone needs.

 

[Elgindon]

Heres a random mix of clubs and their shuttle to stadium services,to give you an idea

 

 

Leeds -  https://www.leedsunited.com/club/Matchday-guide

 

Colchester -  http://www.cu-fc.com/news/article/travel-shuttle-bus-224084.aspx

 

Reading -  http://www.readingfc.co.uk/club/travel/buses-trains/

 

Cardiff -  http://www.cardiffbus.com/english/CCFC

 

 

  Re the standing section -  I'm not sure there would actually be that much of a demand for it.The singing section got their wish for location to the Merkland end(where they stand most of the time anyway),but it hasnt caught on.Whether thats because its mixed with the family section,or the plonkers that go there(or the songs they sing),or maybe just the dour N/E nature.Do you really think there is a demand for it,and how big an area?