New stadium thread

[Kowalski]

Aberdeen FC, Pittodrie Stadium since 1903. 

 

Only been called Pittodrie Stadium since 1971 by the way. Perhaps you should brush up on your facts.

 

Are you quite sure the history of the club means everything to you? It sounds like you don't know it.

[Dunty]

At least you have a choice of transport away from Pittodrie. Sitting in on a bus will be only option if new stadium gets passed.

 

What choice of transport away from Pittodrie will you not have at Kingsford?

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Only been called Pittodrie Stadium since 1971 by the way. Perhaps you should brush up on your facts.

 

Are you quite sure the history of the club means everything to you? It sounds like you don't know it.

 

A bit like mentioned on another thread.

 

There is a difference between 'words and actions'.

 

There is also a difference between 'image and reality' hence why Kingsford will never get past being a flashy youtube.com video and will soon become history.

[RicoS321]

Lets accept that Pittodrie is a non starter, the footprint of the stadium does not avail its self to a nice sparkly new all singing all dancing stadium.

 

Instead of saying "Lets accept", how about we base our decision on fact? That would be a lot better surely? Why the fuck would anyone want to leave their city centre, prime location, stadium on a "lets accept"? I find it absolutely fucking absurd that any dons fan with any ability to think, thinks that moving is a good idea based on being presented with zero evidence whatsoever from the club that backs up the inability to renovate Pittodrie. I find it staggering.

 

I like the Kingsford design, it looks okay. I realise there's not that much that can really make stadiums look amazing, so this one's not bad. I don't agree that it looks like a lego St Mirren-esque ground. However, I do think it'll look shite isolated in a field in the middle of nowhere. That, to me, does make it a little bit more St Johnstone than Hertz or Hibs.

[Jute]

What choice of transport away from Pittodrie will you not have at Kingsford?

 

Currently only a 20 minute walk to the train station. That option will not be open at a ground 6 miles from the station.

[Madbadteacher]

And then there's this.......

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-40939573

[Dunty]

Currently only a 20 minute walk to the train station. That option will not be open at a ground 6 miles from the station.

 

But the train doesn't take you anywhere in Aberdeen.

 

If you were talking about Loirston, and the possibility of re-opening Cove station, then you'd have a point.

[OxfordDon]

woooooosssssssssshhhhhhh

woooooosssssssssshhhhhhh

woooooosssssssssshhhhhhh

 

You've nae really got the hang of this have you loon

[Slim]

This Project Aurora thing is all well and good but wouldn't the money be better spent making sure the planning application complies with all the regulations and is water tight?

[manc_don]

This Project Aurora thing is all well and good but wouldn't the money be better spent making sure the planning application complies with all the regulations and is water tight?

 

Don't doubt for a second that this is in addition to rather than in place of. There is no way the club would be foolish enough to do that. The fly through looks OK, cladding concerns me unless they've suddenly got shit loads more cash. But it's a definite improvement on the previous shite. There are other things I'd have included to make it more community centric to appease the wanks and planners but the principles are there.  The transport is the biggest for me. Couldn't care less about parking, unless it's bus parking. Every fucker should be cycling anyway 

 

The alternative iteration of staying at Pittodrie that's been floating about recent days is a pathetic attempt. If you're going to try and put a proposal for discussion, make it fucking realistic and within the current boundaries and legislation. You're as well putting the Allianz arena in its place. It doesn't add to the debate whatsoever.

 

However, a simple fact sheet from the club would alleviate all of this shite in one foul swoop. Why they haven't done this is beyond me.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Aberdeen FC is Pittodrie Stadium.  Our home since 1903, the centre of our club based in Aberdeen.  Every imaginable strategy needs to be explored to keep our home at all costs.  No excuses.

No. Every imaginable strategy needs to be explored to increase our support and enhance the supporter experience.

 

An easily accessible and modern stadium will tick both boxes.

[RicoS321]

However, a simple fact sheet from the club would alleviate all of this shite in one foul swoop. Why they haven't done this is beyond me.

 

Nit, it wouldn't alleviate anything. They've put out their "fact sheet", which says 12K seats. What we need is a set of reasonably detailed plans that show the 12,000 seater stadium. An open consultation with the fans (let's call them: "the real owners of AFC") where the club is a neutral facilitator. It's ludicrous that anyone finds anything less than that acceptable. They haven't done this because they simply can't back up their 12,000 seat statement with evidence. Mainly because they paid a firm to come up with the answer they wanted to hear rather than do an extensive piece of work to provide a stadium where Pittodrie currently sits. That's it in a nutshell for me - the club haven't actually paid anyone to try to build a stadium on the site of Pittodrie. Does nobody else find that fact absolutely bizarre?

[RicoS321]

No. Every imaginable strategy needs to be explored to increase our support and enhance the supporter experience.

 

An easily accessible and modern stadium will tick both boxes.

 

It's not easily accessible, as evidenced by you. You said earlier in the thread that you don't currently get a season ticket at Pittodrie because it's hard to get to. Yet you think having people from the city centre travelling the exact opposite route somehow is.

[Garlogie_Granite]

It's not easily accessible, as evidenced by you. You said earlier in the thread that you don't currently get a season ticket at Pittodrie because it's hard to get to. Yet you think having people from the city centre travelling the exact opposite route somehow is.

Erm yes. Pittodrie's location is inhibiting, hemmed in by side roads and on one side the sea. Very few will make the opposite travel (as only a tiny fraction stay in the Linksfield area), and for those that do they'll find access and egress much easier on a dual carrraigeway x-roads, (as will everyone else) and of course they won't have 12,000+ others trying to get out of or back to Linksfield area pre/post match.

 

location is only a small part of why I don't have a season ticket, main one being overlap with golf season.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Amidst on the flashy images and excitement of aurora (clubs words) where is additional £30m to build this thing coming from?

 

That meeting last night was like a religious Christian festival where the word "god" was substituted for "kingsford". Stage managed, marketing campaign.

 

Almost like legions of brainwashed followers in tow - kingsfords, kingsfords, Kingsford, Kingsford .....kneel before the Almighty.

 

Oh, that's right debt. £25m of debt to build St Mirren Park II.

 

For the word "aurora" read "Jesus".

[manc_don]

Nit, it wouldn't alleviate anything. They've put out their "fact sheet", which says 12K seats. What we need is a set of reasonably detailed plans that show the 12,000 seater stadium. An open consultation with the fans (let's call them: "the real owners of AFC") where the club is a neutral facilitator. It's ludicrous that anyone finds anything less than that acceptable. They haven't done this because they simply can't back up their 12,000 seat statement with evidence. Mainly because they paid a firm to come up with the answer they wanted to hear rather than do an extensive piece of work to provide a stadium where Pittodrie currently sits. That's it in a nutshell for me - the club haven't actually paid anyone to try to build a stadium on the site of Pittodrie. Does nobody else find that fact absolutely bizarre?

 

How do you know they haven't?  I would expect this at the very least as part of the feasibility study put forward to the club.  A study like this is quite quick to produce, you don't need to be a mathematician to know we cannot achieve the same capacity on site.  People need to get over the fact that they think the club is lying, 12K is probably not far from the truth when you take into consideration current standards.  People seem to think because there's a space you can put a seat, no, that's not how it works.  There are spatial as well as fire requirements that anyone that has sat in the South stand (not been in the mainer or merkie) would know, we're far from achieving in the current stand which means the rake and aisles need to increase.  The height of the stand cannot be increased because of the flats behind, so essentially unless you dig the whole stadium down, you're immediately hindered.

 

By the fact sheet, i meant to explain how they came to those conclusions rather than one liner statements which we've already seen.  It would knock all this pish out the park.  The club were skint and missed out on the opportunity to buy the land behind the south stand.  It's a shit situation but I doubt the club would have been allowed to get an additional bank loan at the time to get it.

 

I don't want to move from Pittodrie, but we missed opportunities in the past and unless we accept we'd go down to a 12K stadium, which personally think would be a massive hinderance on the club, we have to move.  It's far from my ideal location, it's a shit one, but I haven't and I don't see many others being offered up, despite the propaganda from 100%AK.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

I spoke to one Pittodrie member of 'staff' last night.

 

I said "Why do you want to move to Kingsford?"

 

Answer:"well, the new stadium will have a gym and it means I can do weights on my lunch".

[BobbyBiscuit]

I spoke to one Pittodrie member of 'staff' last night.

 

I said "Why do you want to move to Kingsford?"

 

Answer:"well, the new stadium will have a gym and it means I can do weights on my lunch".

 

Probably the main reason it shouldn't be built in my honest opinion IMHO.

[tom_widdows]

Nit, it wouldn't alleviate anything. They've put out their "fact sheet", which says 12K seats. What we need is a set of reasonably detailed plans that show the 12,000 seater stadium. An open consultation with the fans (let's call them: "the real owners of AFC") where the club is a neutral facilitator. It's ludicrous that anyone finds anything less than that acceptable. They haven't done this because they simply can't back up their 12,000 seat statement with evidence. Mainly because they paid a firm to come up with the answer they wanted to hear rather than do an extensive piece of work to provide a stadium where Pittodrie currently sits. That's it in a nutshell for me - the club haven't actually paid anyone to try to build a stadium on the site of Pittodrie. Does nobody else find that fact absolutely bizarre?

 

(Manc gets in ahead of me)

 

I don't find it bizarre because I earlier this year I spent several hours sketching out a cad model of 3 redeveloped stands the pittodrie site and concluded the 12000 figure was about right. My cad model was only based on providing the seating areas in stands modern concourses & fire exits, and I gave up even trying to start playing around with adding UEFA compliant media, changing, medical facilities, or corporate boxes, Club Admin areas, supporters bar/ cafes etc.

 

Even when Manc pointed out my pitch track size could be reduced it didn't make much difference as the capacity was still the 12-13k mark

 

Do you seriously want the club for fork out Architects, Engineers, Planning Consultant fees for a fully detailed stadium design (not a simple cad model like I did) conclusively proving a renovated Pittodrie will only have a 12-13k?

I get the impression that even if they did that there are some people who wouldn't accept it and demand a '2nd opinion' because 'surely there are modern construction techniques that must make it possible'

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Another tiring aspect of this scenario is continued claims of dire consequences if it fails.

 

Apollon just knocked us out of Europe - out of Europe - playing against us, hosting us, beating us in a rock bottom 7,000 seat arena.

 

Kingsford doesn't win you progress in Europe on the field of play despite what Mr Milne tells you.

 

[CvB]

I spoke to one Pittodrie member of 'staff' last night.

 

I said "Why do you want to move to Kingsford?"

 

Answer:"well, the new stadium will have a gym and it means I can do weights on my lunch".

 

True story or just more made up shite to help your anti Kingsford rhetoric?

 

Oh, and I am also not interested in paying £30+ to watch SPL - which is what it will be at Kingsford.

 

aye, made up shite like this statement, did you base this on anything other than the fact that you have decided that there's a threshold to your outlay on football and this randomly plucked figure will exceed that?

 

There's plenty of "if only's" If only Milne had bought up all the houses around Pittodrie, if only we could redirect the streets around Pittodrie to allow expansion, if only we'd bought the old lumber yard etc, etc, etc. That's not how businesses work, especially one where we haven't exactly been sitting on a pot of gold that we were able to spend on land that would not provide any return until a point in time where we were ready to rebuild.

 

Pittodrie is done, accept it. I've had bars and favourite restaurants close on me, I wish the owners could have made them more profitable and continued to trade, but they couldn't, I was disappointed, I moved on.

 

Leaving Pittodrie will be a wrench, but this is how it is. Sadly there aren't huge swathes of land lying in the city centre that a new purpose built stadium can be located, which means the stadium will have to go somewhere North, South or West and ideally within the city boundries. I'm struggling to think of an ideal location.

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

(Manc gets in ahead of me)

 

I don't find it bizarre because I earlier this year I spent several hours sketching out a cad model of 3 redeveloped stands the pittodrie site and concluded the 12000 figure was about right. My cad model was only based on providing the seating areas in stands modern concourses & fire exits, and I gave up even trying to start playing around with adding UEFA compliant media, changing, medical facilities, or corporate boxes, Club Admin areas, supporters bar/ cafes etc.

 

Even when Manc pointed out my pitch track size could be reduced it didn't make much difference as the capacity was still the 12-13k mark

 

Do you seriously want the club for fork out Architects, Engineers, Planning Consultant fees for a fully detailed stadium design (not a simple cad model like I did) conclusively proving a renovated Pittodrie will only have a 12-13k?

I get the impression that even if they did that there are some people who wouldn't accept it and demand a '2nd opinion' because 'surely there are modern construction techniques that must make it possible'

 

Of course I do. That's the absolute minimum they should be doing. They should be investigating moving the Main stand and re-routing the road, stepping the South stand from right to left (as you face it) to avoid blocking light whilst gaining more seats, investigate buying the bottom row of flats in the building most affected in order to gain an extra metre or two in height. Using general imagination and working out what maximum size they could reach, and allowing fans to submit a series of questions (stupid or otherwise) to help satisfy any concerns. List the various options and reasons why those options are unfeasible. Take suggestions and develop them or send them back with a reason why they're gash. Involve the community and fans in a decision that will affect them long after Stewarty moves on. That's what they did for Loirston, that's what they're doing for Kingsford and I dare say they did similar for Bellfied (was that what it was called? I canna mine now) too. If they haven't already done that, then why not? If I could see the drawings and see the work done, be given the opportunity to submit ideas and make comment, I'd definitely believe it. As I can't see the drawings (not even yours...!), I don't believe it. The cost of being inclusive and open/transparent is nothing and will only benefit the club in the long run. I dare say it'd even be the difference between getting Kingsford through planning or not. Threats of "we'll have to play in Glasgow" just make me more suspicious. Those aren't the comments of a trustworthy person, who's made a watertight and transparent case.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

True story or just more made up shite to help your anti Kingsford rhetoric?

 

aye, made up shite like this statement, did you base this on anything other than the fact that you have decided that there's a threshold to your outlay on football and this randomly plucked figure will exceed that?

 

There's plenty of "if only's" If only Milne had bought up all the houses around Pittodrie, if only we could redirect the streets around Pittodrie to allow expansion, if only we'd bought the old lumber yard etc, etc, etc. That's not how businesses work, especially one where we haven't exactly been sitting on a pot of gold that we were able to spend on land that would not provide any return until a point in time where we were ready to rebuild.

 

Pittodrie is done, accept it. I've had bars and favourite restaurants close on me, I wish the owners could have made them more profitable and continued to trade, but they couldn't, I was disappointed, I moved on.

 

Leaving Pittodrie will be a wrench, but this is how it is. Sadly there aren't huge swathes of land lying in the city centre that a new purpose built stadium can be located, which means the stadium will have to go somewhere North, South or West and ideally within the city boundries. I'm struggling to think of an ideal location.

 

The Council have already said land is available to the club in Loriston and Kingslinks.  In respect of Kingslinks there is land on golf road behind sports village (former Linksfield Academy) for training facilities.

 

Its amazing anything that doesn't fit in with the Yes Kingsford agenda is immediately labelled 'made up pish' and vice versa.

 

Is everyone in this argument (including club) so divorced from the rational argument that it descends to this - a political tug of war?  It's like the Republicans v Democrats.  Good Guys v Bad Guys.

 

The transport plans for Kingsford are the elephant in the room. Maybe not if you live in bloody garlogie or Elrick but 1000's and 1000's of fans walking along A road and transported in like cattle on shuttle buses is the most bonkers thing ever.

 

This fact - transport issues are becoming lost amidst all the hysteria.

[RicoS321]

There's plenty of "if only's" If only Milne had bought up all the houses around Pittodrie, if only we could redirect the streets around Pittodrie to allow expansion, if only we'd bought the old lumber yard etc, etc, etc. That's not how businesses work, especially one where we haven't exactly been sitting on a pot of gold that we were able to spend on land that would not provide any return until a point in time where we were ready to rebuild.

 

Pittodrie is done, accept it. I've had bars and favourite restaurants close on me, I wish the owners could have made them more profitable and continued to trade, but they couldn't, I was disappointed, I moved on.

 

Leaving Pittodrie will be a wrench, but this is how it is. Sadly there aren't huge swathes of land lying in the city centre that a new purpose built stadium can be located, which means the stadium will have to go somewhere North, South or West and ideally within the city boundries. I'm struggling to think of an ideal location.

 

If you're going to call out 100%AK's shite, at least do it with something that's not absolute bullshit yersel. The above is just patronising airy-fairy shite about feelings. We've asking for facts. Not some straw-man bollocks about favourite restaurants that have nothing to do with anything.

 

You mention re-directing streets? Where's the evidence that says that can't be done? Where's even the slightest attempt to make that happen from our club? Where's the application to the council to do that? You're telling me that the club couldn't put heaps of pressure - as it's currently doing to push through Kingsford - on the council to change one street in the city right next to the existing stadium? We're saying that an application for an entire stadium in a completely new location with next to zero transport plan is easier to get through planning than re-routing Pittodrie street? I don't really believe that. I'm not suggesting it would be easy, I'm suggesting there has been no effort to make it happen, rather there has been active effort to make it not happen.

[Ten Caat]

And the funding for razing the ground to the floor, realigning Pittodrie Street with all the services underneath (gas electric sewage broadband etc) for around 300 metres or so and also Golf Road if you want to shift the whole thing towards the sea,buying up the flats and any other properties that may impinge on the project and rebuilding the ground to an acceptable size (17.5 k minimum?) is going to come from where?

 

Oh and not forgetting there's also a training centre which will still be need to be built somewhere else in or around the city, losing the obvious benefits of having the stadium adjacent ( separate services whereas they can be integrated on one site etc)

 

We know that we will get 15-20 million by selling Pittodrie (and leaving the demolition costs to any prospective buyer). So we are looking to fund 30 million or so to achieve Kingsford. There's no head start in paying for a redeveloped Pittodrie. It would be the full 50 million plus the costs on top I've mentioned above. Plus whatever it costs to build the training ground on a separate site.

 

I support the club and whilst Pittodrie will always have a special place in my heart, ultimately, within reason, I dont give a flying fuck where we play. I would even have accepted Portlethen despite it being outwith the city as there are very obvious transport advantages to being there. We need to accept that change is necessary. Too much time has been wasted already..