New stadium thread

[Tyrant]

We might nae have the best football team in the country but we'd be the fucking kings of water polo.

[gosgka]

30ft down plastic sheeting and concrete we would be fine

[Tyrant]

30ft down plastic sheeting and concrete we would be fine

 

 

Until it rains.

[RicoS321]

30ft down plastic sheeting and concrete we would be fine

 

Exactly. Stop fuckin aboot AFC and get it done.

 

 

[Tyrant]

[tom_widdows]

Here, my last effort at Pittodrie. There's no way they're going to go through rebuilding current stands so a new build.

 

I've used Arka Gdynia's 15,000 capacity stadium which looks up to all our regulations.

 

 

2009 Polish Planning & building regulations versus 2017 Scottish Planning & Building Regulations?

 

Use a slope if necessary for light issues from the flats.

 

 

What angle of slope to you have in mind?  Also can I ask why in your quest to show pittodrie can be redeveloped do you continue to post pictures of stadiums which are constructed in clear sites well away from any residential development?

 

Stick whatever required and the main entrance on the north end like Old Trafford.

 

 

 

Pedantry here but that's the East Stand. A Stand which holds almost 13500 people and has a footprint almost double that of the RDS. Yes the club could 'stick whatever is required' in that but why use a structure twice the size of the RDS as an example?

 

Flatten the car park hill. Build the outer 2.5 stands first while we use the current ground so they can be used the next season.

 

 

 

Bang. Circulation. Evacuation. Near 20k. Concourses. Facilities. Double the parking space where West Pittodrie was.

 

May I ask what stadium's roof you have used as I have my doubts what you have shown would add up to more than 10000 capacity?

 

I think alot of assumptions are being made with your sketches

1) The person who owns the house at the back of the RDS will happily sell up

2) The Planners, Police etc will allow the removal of the South West Car Park whilst Pittodrie is still being used

3) It is possible to half build a stadium which will most likely require a huge raft foundation due to the high sandy soil content, the first part of which will be into a hill the summit of which is approx 10m above the RDS concourse.

4) Its possible to build the other half in the space of a couple of months. Hearts new stand will eventually (if there are no more delays) take the best part of 7 months to construct and they don't have the problem of digging out a hillside and ensuring a Main Road doesn't cave in.

5) If by some miracle this was pulled off that the Planners would actually allow a massive car-park to be built on the old Pittodrie site. The existing road infrastructure is barely suitable for the existing car-parks. Its a whole new ball game the moment you increase the size and push all the parking into one location.

 

I would not be surprised if the cost of your vision was the same if not more than Kingsford with the difference being the club wouldn't have any money from selling Pittodrie, or any training facilities.

 

 

Not far off the same shape and footprint as Anderlecht.

 

 

you mean the one that sits in public parkland and was built in the 1980s?

[gosgka]

can he not design one that goes downwords

still in favour of digging down 30 ft

[manc_don]

If we want to deal with water, we should just build it out at sea 

 

[Tyrant]

can he not design one that goes downwords

still in favour of digging down 30 ft

 

 

The cost of the plastic sheeting alone would leave the balance sheet in ruins.

[RicoS321]

Not to mention the death payments from folk falling into the stadium when walking along Pittodrie street.

[Madbadteacher]

And the ancient Indian burial ground underneath......

[Slim]

I still think the AECC site is our best option, and we can make use of most of the existing facilities to cut down on costs.

 

 

A stadium the size of Pittodrie plonked over the existing main conference hall still gives us access to thousands of existing parking spaces and all the space in the world behind each stand.

 

If we use:

The red highlighted building for changing rooms, medical facilities, gym, players canteen, etc. Make use of the existing bridge and connect it to the stadium.

The blue highlighted building for main entrance, corporate offices, function rooms, etc.

The purple highlighted building for club museum, supporters bar, club shop and keep the viewing tower.

The green highlighted building can be converted into indoor training pitches.

 

Then we can minimise the amount of stuff we need to incorporate into the stadium, basically just the seats and corporate boxes.

 

The yellow area we can try to purchase from the army for outdoor training facilities, we train there often enough anyway.

 

Still have the Park & Ride facility already on site, plenty of buses going both north and south within 5 minute walk of the stadium, the AWPR starts a few miles to the north too.

 

Not much local residents to complain about it either, and if they're willing to put up with Olly Murs putting on a concert in the car park directly next to their houses, I'm sure they won't worry too much about a stadium.

 

Lobby the council to sign everything over to us on the cheap to save them demolition costs and having to construct something else on the site. Tap up our new neighbours GE Oil & Gas for stadium naming rights and use that cash to buy out the owners of the 2 hotels. I've thought of everything!

 

If we've already bought the Westhill site, just pave the bit of it closest to the houses, put a locked gate in front of it, and it'll be turned into an unofficial gypsy camp in no time.

[Dunty]

I still think the AECC site is our best option, and we can make use of most of the existing facilities to cut down on costs.

 

 

A stadium the size of Pittodrie plonked over the existing main conference hall still gives us access to thousands of existing parking spaces and all the space in the world behind each stand.

 

If we use:

The red highlighted building for changing rooms, medical facilities, gym, players canteen, etc. Make use of the existing bridge and connect it to the stadium.

The blue highlighted building for main entrance, corporate offices, function rooms, etc.

The purple highlighted building for club museum, supporters bar, club shop and keep the viewing tower.

The green highlighted building can be converted into indoor training pitches.

 

Then we can minimise the amount of stuff we need to incorporate into the stadium, basically just the seats and corporate boxes.

 

The yellow area we can try to purchase from the army for outdoor training facilities, we train there often enough anyway.

 

Still have the Park & Ride facility already on site, plenty of buses going both north and south within 5 minute walk of the stadium, the AWPR starts a few miles to the north too.

 

Not much local residents to complain about it either, and if they're willing to put up with Olly Murs putting on a concert in the car park directly next to their houses, I'm sure they won't worry too much about a stadium.

 

Lobby the council to sign everything over to us on the cheap to save them demolition costs and having to construct something else on the site. Tap up our new neighbours GE Oil & Gas for stadium naming rights and use that cash to buy out the owners of the 2 hotels. I've thought of everything!

 

If we've already bought the Westhill site, just pave the bit of it closest to the houses, put a locked gate in front of it, and it'll be turned into an unofficial gypsy camp in no time.

 

What makes the AECC site better than Kingsford?

 

The only "advantage" I can see is that it's more in the city, which seems to be a big thing to some people.

 

Parking? No better than Kingsford. You'll need to park in residential areas in both (and with the crowds increased up to five times more than a concert crowd, you may find the residents not quite as welcoming).

 

Traffic? Is it much better? Or any better? Could argue it'd be worse.

 

Public transport? Same. You certainly can't walk to it from the city centre.

 

Cost? Going to be a lot more expensive than Kingsford unless the council do us a good deal, which it seems they are unwilling to do.

 

[gosgka]

 

The cost of the plastic sheeting alone would leave the balance sheet in ruins.

no we could use 5p bags from Tesco it would not cost that much

p.s. love the floating stadium

If we want to deal with water, we should just build it out at sea 

 

[jess]

2009 Polish Planning & building regulations versus 2017 Scottish Planning & Building Regulations?

 

Lots of legroom, exits and stairways?

 

What angle of slope to you have in mind?  Also can I ask why in your quest to show pittodrie can be redeveloped do you continue to post pictures of stadiums which are constructed in clear sites well away from any residential development?

 

Any that doesn't block light for the flats. There is lots of space left between them and the stadium though, especially if you entered from the top as demonstrated.

 

 

 

Here's that same one for reference, at 16,000.

 

 

I don't see what the well clear of residential development has to do with this when it's the same or more space provided as the Pittodrie sketch and room for everything needed

 

 

Pedantry here but that's the East Stand. A Stand which holds almost 13500 people and has a footprint almost double that of the RDS. Yes the club could 'stick whatever is required' in that but why use a structure twice the size of the RDS as an example?

 

Can't think of another one with the main entrance on the end.

 

 

May I ask what stadium's roof you have used as I have my doubts what you have shown would add up to more than 10000 capacity?

 

It's Arka Gdynia.

 

This is Anderlecht's 28,000 seater entire space.

 

 

I think alot of assumptions are being made with your sketches

1) The person who owns the house at the back of the RDS will happily sell up

 

Does someone still own or live in that? I thought there's rusty boarded up windows. It's part of the land used in the application for flats.

 

2) The Planners, Police etc will allow the removal of the South West Car Park whilst Pittodrie is still being used

 

I doubt that would be a problem since not many grounds have a giant car park mostly for away fans and segregation.

 

3) It is possible to half build a stadium which will most likely require a huge raft foundation due to the high sandy soil content, the first part of which will be into a hill the summit of which is approx 10m above the RDS concourse.

 

I don't know the cost. I'd guess it's around King's Links costs. The hill is flattened in the application for flats, of course.

 

4) Its possible to build the other half in the space of a couple of months. Hearts new stand will eventually (if there are no more delays) take the best part of 7 months to construct and they don't have the problem of digging out a hillside and ensuring a Main Road doesn't cave in.

I wasn't thinking about doing the other half in a couple of months, just about the need for a pitch for the start of the next season.

 

5) If by some miracle this was pulled off that the Planners would actually allow a massive car-park to be built on the old Pittodrie site. The existing road infrastructure is barely suitable for the existing car-parks. Its a whole new ball game the moment you increase the size and push all the parking into one location.

 

So a massive concourse.

 

 

I would not be surprised if the cost of your vision was the same if not more than Kingsford with the difference being the club wouldn't have any money from selling Pittodrie, or any training facilities.

 

Not saying it wouldn't, I'm more interested in what's possible, and if the reason against a new Pittodrie as shown would be only down to money.

 

[Dunty]

Lots of legroom, exits and stairways?

 

Any that doesn't block light for the flats. There is lots of space left between them and the stadium though, especially if you entered from the top as demonstrated.

 

 

 

Here's that same one for reference, at 16,000.

 

 

I don't see what the well clear of residential development has to do with this when it's the same or more space provided as the Pittodrie sketch and room for everything needed

 

 

Can't think of another one with the main entrance on the end.

 

It's Arka Gdynia.

 

This is Anderlecht's 28,000 seater entire space.

 

 

Does someone still own or live in that? I thought there's rusty boarded up windows. It's part of the land used in the application for flats.

 

I doubt that would be a problem since not many grounds have a giant car park mostly for away fans and segregation.

 

I don't know the cost. I'd guess it's around King's Links costs. The hill is flattened in the application for flats, of course.

I wasn't thinking about doing the other half in a couple of months, just about the need for a pitch for the start of the next season.

 

So a massive concourse.

 

Not saying it wouldn't, I'm more interested in what's possible, and if the reason against a new Pittodrie as shown would be only down to money.

 

I think your plans are interesting, but I'd be dead against rebuilding Pittodrie if it means a reduction in capacity, and anything north of £10m more than Kingsford is costing to build it, which sadly seems to both be the case.

 

 

[jess]

It's a decent effort, Jess, something that we looked at a while ago, I think Tom alluded to it in one of his posts. Ignoring scale for the time being, the issue here being that we'd still have to pay to play elsewhere due to grass growth, not sure the club could afford suffer the loss of income and increased outgoings. It's one of the benefits of building elsewhere as they'd still have an income. Tottenham is a prime example of what you've shown. I'd guess we'd probably close to toms capacity as you've currently shown it, as we'd probably want more commercial space. Nice stadium though.

 

Artificial pitch? If that's what you're referring to. I was watching a Young Boys Bern game and thought the pitch looked good then found out it's artifical. Nothing like the Hamilton and Killies.

 

 

 

[Slim]

What makes the AECC site better than Kingsford?

 

The only "advantage" I can see is that it's more in the city, which seems to be a big thing to some people.

 

Parking? No better than Kingsford. You'll need to park in residential areas in both (and with the crowds increased up to five times more than a concert crowd, you may find the residents not quite as welcoming).

 

Traffic? Is it much better? Or any better? Could argue it'd be worse.

 

Public transport? Same. You certainly can't walk to it from the city centre.

 

Cost? Going to be a lot more expensive than Kingsford unless the council do us a good deal, which it seems they are unwilling to do.

 

It's close to the city, it's well served by about a dozen existing bus routes, has an existing park and ride facility and it would be handier for me to get to.

 

The parking at Kingsford is extremely limited due to regulations and the additional spaces are in an industrial estate a fair walk away across a busy dual carriageway. The AECC has thousands of spaces already there and sits in an industrial estate that will be largely empty during matches. Could even open up the big paved area in the Barracks. Far more parking than Kingsford, and probably Pittodrie too.

 

Other than the number 13 bus, I can't think of any bus routes that serve Pittodrie that wouldn't also serve BoD. How many bus routes currently serve Westhill?

 

Traffic you have the A90 and AWPR to the north taking the bulk of the non-city supporters, the Parkway to the west taking everyone west of Kittybrewster and King Street/Beach Esplanade taking everyone else. Far more accessible than Westhill.

 

There's a benefit to the council from just handing over the site in its current state and walking away with some cash in their hipper. We won't need much facilities in the stadium, can easily knock off a couple of million from the construction costs.

 

Plus we'll have a tower. How many stadiums have a tower?

 

 

[jess]

I still think the AECC site is our best option, and we can make use of most of the existing facilities to cut down on costs.

 

 

A stadium the size of Pittodrie plonked over the existing main conference hall still gives us access to thousands of existing parking spaces and all the space in the world behind each stand.

 

If we use:

The red highlighted building for changing rooms, medical facilities, gym, players canteen, etc. Make use of the existing bridge and connect it to the stadium.

The blue highlighted building for main entrance, corporate offices, function rooms, etc.

The purple highlighted building for club museum, supporters bar, club shop and keep the viewing tower.

The green highlighted building can be converted into indoor training pitches.

 

Then we can minimise the amount of stuff we need to incorporate into the stadium, basically just the seats and corporate boxes.

 

The yellow area we can try to purchase from the army for outdoor training facilities, we train there often enough anyway.

 

Still have the Park & Ride facility already on site, plenty of buses going both north and south within 5 minute walk of the stadium, the AWPR starts a few miles to the north too.

 

Not much local residents to complain about it either, and if they're willing to put up with Olly Murs putting on a concert in the car park directly next to their houses, I'm sure they won't worry too much about a stadium.

 

Lobby the council to sign everything over to us on the cheap to save them demolition costs and having to construct something else on the site. Tap up our new neighbours GE Oil & Gas for stadium naming rights and use that cash to buy out the owners of the 2 hotels. I've thought of everything!

 

If we've already bought the Westhill site, just pave the bit of it closest to the houses, put a locked gate in front of it, and it'll be turned into an unofficial gypsy camp in no time.

 

Good bit of thinking. Wonder how much the cost actually would be?

[tom_widdows]

Lots of legroom, exits and stairways?

 

Scotland has some of the strictest Planning & Building regulations in Europe if not the world.

Last time I checked (and based on my last visit) the Polish are not even in the top 20.

I would be looking to Germans if you want to use continental european stadium examples

As I have said in the previous posts building standards approval is a piece of cake compared to Planning approval as the former has set standards which you either comply with or you don't.

Planning is objective and as is being nicely highlighted by the Kingsford campaign it is minefield open to abuse.

 

Any that doesn't block light for the flats. There is lots of space left between them and the stadium though, especially if you entered from the top as demonstrated.

 

 

 

Here's that same one for reference, at 16,000.

 

 

I don't see what the well clear of residential development has to do with this when it's the same or more space provided as the Pittodrie sketch and room for everything needed

 

So in your vision the existing away section concourse is maintained? Fair enough

If you then flatten the hill and build the pitch at RDS concourse level you would require a massive retaining wall to ensure the concourse and the tower blocks do not collapse. You would then either be faced with the nightmare of fitting Toilets, First Aid Facilities, Snack bars etc underground or build them all at the top of the stand, the latter would significantly reduce the space for seating.

 

There is also the problem of emergency vehicle access being required all around the entire stadium. That high level concourse will somehow need to drop 10m at one end as the regulations will not allow a 'dead end' for emergency vehicles in a brand new stadium.

 

On the flip side if you lowered the whole thing to the RDS concourse level there is the issue of connecting with Golf Road.

 

This new stadium is now turning into serious Engineering which leaves Kingsford's budget in the dust.

 

Does someone still own or live in that? I thought there's rusty boarded up windows. It's part of the land used in the application for flats.

Its not within the boundary of the Pittodrie site and anyone wanting to demolish it would need to negotiate with the owner. The 3d images from the 'Planning permission in principle' may show flats being built there but that is merely an indication of what 'could' be built. The final residential development could look nothing like the 3d wireframe images as the whole site requires 'detailed' planning consent & building warrant part if which requires the consent of all owner's for the development to proceed.

A residential property developer can adapt their scheme to avoid that house if the owner wont sell. Your stadium relies on it being flattened.

 

I doubt that would be a problem since not many grounds have a giant car park mostly for away fans and segregation.

Not having such a car park in the first place is one thing. Suddenly removing it with no alternative solution is another. If the club couldn't provide alternative facilities to make up for losing this area the Cops, Council, HSE could issue a revised safety certificate reducing the capacity of Pittodrie or worst case scenario actually refuse to grant one.

 

I don't know the cost. I'd guess it's around King's Links costs. The hill is flattened in the application for flats, of course.

As previously mentioned the flats scheme is an indicative proposal and does not have detailed planning consent or building warrant approval. There is no guarantee the Golf Road hill can or will be flattened in any development.

It is also much easier to build on a site when one of your priorities is ensuring you don't undermine the structural integrity of a football stadium

I'm telling you now, just the preparation works for your vision will be more than 10million

 

I wasn't thinking about doing the other half in a couple of months, just about the need for a pitch for the start of the next season.

 

You dont just need a pitch. You need building standards approval and a safety certificate confirming the half built stadium is safe. You also have to prove you can continue a major demolition & construction project in close proximity to a major public venue

Even if this was achievable the club would spend the majority (if not all) of the first season with a stadium capacity of 8000 or less.

 

Then at the end of it all they have a stadium with 5000 less seats than the old one and a debt greater than the one which crippled them for the best part of the last 20 years.

 

So a massive concourse.

How does that solve the parking requirements?

 

Not saying it wouldn't, I'm more interested in what's possible, and if the reason against a new Pittodrie as shown would be only down to money.

 

Do you mean the reason against a 'redeveloped' pittodrie?

There is a big difference between trying to redevelop within the existing footprint and just flattening the place and starting again, and money would be top of the list in the case against the latter.

[jess]

Scotland has some of the strictest Planning & Building regulations in Europe if not the world.

Last time I checked (and based on my last visit) the Polish are not even in the top 20.

I would be looking to Germans if you want to use continental european stadium examples

As I have said in the previous posts building standards approval is a piece of cake compared to Planning approval as the former has set standards which you either comply with or you don't.

Planning is objective and as is being nicely highlighted by the Kingsford campaign it is minefield open to abuse.

 

So what can you see that Arka's stadium doesn't comply with stadium safety guide wise? Needless to say Tynecastle fits in much the same, as does the Paderborn one.

 

 

So in your vision the existing away section concourse is maintained? Fair enough

If you then flatten the hill and build the pitch at RDS concourse level you would require a massive retaining wall to ensure the concourse and the tower blocks do not collapse. You would then either be faced with the nightmare of fitting Toilets, First Aid Facilities, Snack bars etc underground or build them all at the top of the stand, the latter would significantly reduce the space for seating.

 

There is also the problem of emergency vehicle access being required all around the entire stadium. That high level concourse will somehow need to drop 10m at one end as the regulations will not allow a 'dead end' for emergency vehicles in a brand new stadium.

 

Whatever is cheapest, works best and ensures nothing collapses.

 

Its not within the boundary of the Pittodrie site and anyone wanting to demolish it would need to negotiate with the owner. The 3d images from the 'Planning permission in principle' may show flats being built there but that is merely an indication of what 'could' be built. The final residential development could look nothing like the 3d wireframe images as the whole site requires 'detailed' planning consent & building warrant part if which requires the consent of all owner's for the development to proceed.

A residential property developer can adapt their scheme to avoid that house if the owner wont sell. Your stadium relies on it being flattened.

 

It looks like it's away to fall down anyway. I'm not expecting it to be free if we don't own it.

 

Not having such a car park in the first place is one thing. Suddenly removing it with no alternative solution is another. If the club couldn't provide alternative facilities to make up for losing this area the Cops, Council, HSE could issue a revised safety certificate reducing the capacity of Pittodrie or worst case scenario actually refuse to grant one.

 

This is all what ifs though. It might be no problem at all.

 

As previously mentioned the flats scheme is an indicative proposal and does not have detailed planning consent or building warrant approval. There is no guarantee the Golf Road hill can or will be flattened in any development.

It is also much easier to build on a site when one of your priorities is ensuring you don't undermine the structural integrity of a football stadium

I'm telling you now, just the preparation works for your vision will be more than 10million

 

I don't think it would remain as is otherwise most of it is unusable. I can't picture this but building the rest of it up the way instead of taking the hill down?

 

How does that solve the parking requirements?

 

We can't take away the car park but can't replace the car park like for like on the other side with more access routes?

 

Do you mean the reason against a 'redeveloped' pittodrie?

There is a big difference between trying to redevelop within the existing footprint and just flattening the place and starting again, and money would be top of the list in the case against the latter.

Meant on the current site but nothing to do with current position.

[Dunty]

It's close to the city, it's well served by about a dozen existing bus routes, has an existing park and ride facility and it would be handier for me to get to.

 

The parking at Kingsford is extremely limited due to regulations and the additional spaces are in an industrial estate a fair walk away across a busy dual carriageway. The AECC has thousands of spaces already there and sits in an industrial estate that will be largely empty during matches. Could even open up the big paved area in the Barracks. Far more parking than Kingsford, and probably Pittodrie too.

 

Other than the number 13 bus, I can't think of any bus routes that serve Pittodrie that wouldn't also serve BoD. How many bus routes currently serve Westhill?

 

 

There's plenty of existing bus routes to Westhill, plus I heard rumours there may be some form of shuttle buses going to the stadium.

 

All the parking you've mentioned is on private land. There is plenty of parking at Westhill and Kingswells, it just happens to also be on private land.

 

"It's close to the city" - what, union street? No-one is going to walk that every game. So after a match fans will either be queuing for buses or heading to cars, the same as Kingsford.

 

I can't see any evidence AECC would make life easier for fans than Kingsford.

 

 

Traffic you have the A90 and AWPR to the north taking the bulk of the non-city supporters, the Parkway to the west taking everyone west of Kittybrewster and King Street/Beach Esplanade taking everyone else. Far more accessible than Westhill.

 

The parkway is not a dual carriageway, so after an event at the AECC it's gridlocked. It's a nightmare for traffic with just 4,000 people at a gig. The AWPR would help, but a football crowd will be minimum 10,000. You would have three main roads out. I fail to see how that's better by road than Kingsford. It will have roads going east and west of the stadium, a dual carriageway into the city, a road going north just before Kingswells, the bypass going north and south. Add that many will take the road north through Westhill and out onto the Inverurie to Dyce dual carriageway. You can also go through Cults to go south of the city (if the AWPR was too busy) or through Bucksburn.

 

It's very difficult to argue anywhere in Aberdeen is more accessible by road than Kingsford.

 

By public transport, everywhere that is far enough away from union street to be walking distance will struggle to have an excellent transport strategy because the city is so poorly serviced by anything other than buses. Dyce is an exception because it has a railway station. Loirston potentially would have had the same. To be fair to the club, they tried to build at Loirston and many fans were against it.

 

 

There's a benefit to the council from just handing over the site in its current state and walking away with some cash in their hipper. We won't need much facilities in the stadium, can easily knock off a couple of million from the construction costs.

 

Plus we'll have a tower. How many stadiums have a tower?

 

It reads like when you got to this but you realised the AECC site didn't make sense and have covered yourself by pretending you weren't actually serious all along.

[Slim]

The bus stops on Ellon Road at the bottom of North Donside Road are served by 16 bus routes going both north of the city and into the city. The bus stop nearest the stadium site in Kingsford on the main road out of Westhill is served by 2 bus routes all going the same direction (according to Google Maps). It's not even close. Plus the AECC has the existing P&R facility to accommodate a further supply of shuttle buses.

 

The Parkway can't handle traffic but all the shitty back roads round Westhill and Cults can? Come on now. All traffic leaving Westhill going to the city is going to get backed up at the Roundabout at the start of Lang Stracht.

 

All the parking I've mentioned is on private land? Except of course the thousands of existing spaces on the AECC site that we'd be able to use that we wouldn't have at Kingsford you mean? The private spaces in BoD are just as much, if not more, as Kingford with the added benefit of not being on the other side of a busy dual carriageway.

 

Obviously what I'm proposing has zero prospect of ever happening but location-wise the AECC is light years ahead of Westhill in terms of convenience and accessibility. The only people it is less convenient for is those living to the south of the city and with the exception of a small pocket of resistance in Stonehaven, they're all Huns anyway.

[Tyrant]

I'm all for building it in BoD. I live there and will happily turn a blind eye to the people parking in my drive way, fighting outside my window and stepping in police horse shite. Let's get it built.

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

The Parkway can't handle traffic but all the shitty back roads round Westhill and Cults can? Come on now. All traffic leaving Westhill going to the city is going to get backed up at the Roundabout at the start of Lang Stracht.

 

Nonsense. people going to Alford way, Tarland way, or Raemoir/Royal Deeside way, will still head west, of course with a half hour+ start on Pittodrie/AECC site.

 

How many will head all the way to Kingswells roundabout? Anyone going north/north west/south will be on the AWPR. Anyone heading to Dyce/Bucksburn/BoDon will get on AWPR. Anyone heading to kincorth/Cove/Portlethen/Torry will get onto AWPR.