New stadium thread

[Claudia Cardinale]

The W.A.N.K.S. out in *force*  today. Less than a 100 of them there to spew their nonsense at the councillors.  Shambolic people.

 

Dear Mr Granite, I've just discovered this forum and I just wanted to say that your posts parodying the " Get It Built or else Youse Cunts" onanistic faction are works of genius worthy of Jonathan Swift or at least Weird Al Jankovic. Settle an argument we were having in the canteen the other day whilst discussing your provenance if you don't mind poppet; do you bide wi' yer maw and five cats in a caravan in Garlogie ?

 

In bocca al luppo,

Claudia.

[brunstanesheep]

Well as well as the obvious of making use of all the facilitiea, you also have the AFC Community Trust with the work they do, for the older ones there will be the chance of a Saturday job either at the stadium or around Westhill, Prime 4, Kingswells etc where businesses will need to up man to meet demand of fans ploughing money into the local economy(another bonus for the single minded clowns).

[jess]

Either I don't understand it or this community stuff is being mindlessly repeated. As far as I've read there will be 5 pitches and 1 or 2 available for hire (cost?) when not being used by the youngsters which I don't think would be very often or at useful times. It's not the local kids being able to turn up and play whenever they want.

 

Apart from that there will be...a cafe?

[Edinburghdon]

Either I don't understand it or this community stuff is being mindlessly repeated. As far as I've read there will be 5 pitches and 1 or 2 available for hire (cost?) when not being used by the youngsters which I don't think would be very often or at useful times. It's not the local kids being able to turn up and play whenever they want.

 

Apart from that there will be...a cafe?

 

Good standard of pitches available for hire (of course there would be a cost, it's daft to think otherwise), then there's space available for general use, so community groups can hire the space for whatever community groups do.

 

Change of subject but it's widely accepted the transport situation at kingsford has is flaws, can anyone explain how the club are going to be able to put together a transport case for kingslinks when the existing car parking has been sold and the existing infrastructure is gridlocked post match even with modest attendances? Wouldn't moving to kingslinks be treated as a new development so even saying it's suitable currently has no bearing on it?

 

It strikes me that if we can't make a transport case work with a brand new bypass serving the local area and dual carriageway in to town, as well as additional parking over and above what we would normally be allowed and shuttle buses (ignoring the fact folk are unconvinced on having to use a shuttle bus to get there  for now)... how on earth can we expect it to be passed with none of those things albeit much more accessible on foot?

 

Maybe I'm missing something but I can't get my head around the thinking there

 

[jess]

Good standard of pitches available for hire (of course there would be a cost, it's daft to think otherwise), then there's space available for general use, so community groups can hire the space for whatever community groups do.

 

Change of subject but it's widely accepted the transport situation at kingsford has is flaws, can anyone explain how the club are going to be able to put together a transport case for kingslinks when the existing car parking has been sold and the existing infrastructure is gridlocked post match even with modest attendances? Wouldn't moving to kingslinks be treated as a new development so even saying it's suitable currently has no bearing on it?

 

It strikes me that if we can't make a transport case work with a brand new bypass serving the local area and dual carriageway in to town, as well as additional parking over and above what we would normally be allowed and shuttle buses (ignoring the fact folk are unconvinced on having to use a shuttle bus to get there  for now)... how on earth can we expect it to be passed with none of those things albeit much more accessible on foot?

 

Maybe I'm missing something but I can't get my head around the thinking there

 

Might just be me but I wouldn't call that community use.

 

Kings Links is served by enough public transport from all over and they'd say they would add additional ones to bring down the amount of cars. 1300 spaces, the beach and perhaps Bridge of Don park & ride.

[manc_don]

Either I don't understand it or this community stuff is being mindlessly repeated. As far as I've read there will be 5 pitches and 1 or 2 available for hire (cost?) when not being used by the youngsters which I don't think would be very often or at useful times. It's not the local kids being able to turn up and play whenever they want.

 

Apart from that there will be...a cafe?

 

That is community use, it allows community groups to make use of the space.  It's not defined as setting restrictions on how they can use it (within reason).  The best spaces provided for community spaces are usually left to morph into whatever suits the community/group.

 

How would you define community use?

[jess]

That is community use, it allows community groups to make use of the space.  It's not defined as setting restrictions on how they can use it (within reason).  The best spaces provided for community spaces are usually left to morph into whatever suits the community/group.

 

How would you define community use?

 

I associate it with turning up somewhere and using the facilities there. Maybe there's another description for that type of thing.

 

Modernised community use I think of those fully fenced dual fitba basketball courts.

[Edinburghdon]

Might just be me but I wouldn't call that community use.

 

Kings Links is served by enough public transport from all over and they'd say they would add additional ones to bring down the amount of cars. 1300 spaces, the beach and perhaps Bridge of Don park & ride.

 

It's available for use by the community... not really sure why that couldn't be community use?

 

Where's the 1300 spaces coming from at kingslinks? Is there the footprint there for that size of car park? If there is How does that ease congestion on the main routes away from the stadium that are gridlocked after games? It's tolerated currently, a fresh application across the roads changes that though. Maybe I'm missing something but would that really be passed?

 

I mean barring the improved access on foot pittodrie is fucking awful to get to at times from anywhere but on foot and on some bus routes.

 

Just trying to look at it logically.

[Edinburghdon]

I associate it with turning up somewhere and using the facilities there. Maybe there's another description for that type of thing.

 

Modernised community use I think of those fully fenced dual fitba basketball courts.

 

So turning up and using the facilities for free you mean? When would that ever be the case?! Apart from having to pay for use I don't think it's unreasonable to assume it's going to be available for use whenever the club isn't training, much like how hearts facilities have worked well for years (albeit the were erring slightly run down last time I saw it).

 

Basketball too? Let's see how much that would be used.

 

Also, has the club mentioned whether the gym would be available to locals? Can't say I've seen it confirmed that it wouldn't be. So we are up to multiple high quality floodlit grass and allweather pitches, multi use community rooms and possibly a gym. Not exactly nothing is it? Add in a permanent base for the AFCCT and it all mounts up.

[RicoS321]

It's bollocks though really, isn't it? Regardless of stadium location that is, and not on an anti-Kingsford point, the club are building this facility for themselves not the community. I have no issue with that like, that's entirely the point. However, as far as I'm aware, nobody in Westhill is really arguing against the training pitches. It's the accompanying stadium that's the issue.

[tom_widdows]

Might just be me but I wouldn't call that community use.

 

Kings Links is served by enough public transport from all over and they'd say they would add additional ones to bring down the amount of cars. 1300 spaces, the beach and perhaps Bridge of Don park & ride.

 

The issue with that manc is where do you add them?

The discussion seems to have moved away from 'Pittodrie being redeveloped' to 'new stadium just down the road' but a presumption seems to be the Council would take the view the existing infrastructure is fine.

Crowds and Traffic currently arrive and disperse through residential streets which causes significant disruption to local residents, is a hindrance to emergency services and results in gridlock in the city centre.

Yes the Railway & Bus stations are less than 2miles away but how many home fans do actually use the train to come to the game? (Genuine question as my trips north for home games on the train or bus never seem to end with me fighting through massive hordes of red shirted folk on the station concourses waiting for the West or South bound trains home)

 

In Scotland, St Mirren, Stirling Albion, Dumbarton, East Fife, Falkirk, St Johnstone as I recall all had stadiums surrounded (at least partly) by residential areas. All moved to new stadiums clear of residential property.

 

New clubs Caley Thistle & Livingston's stadiums were built away from residential areas.

 

New stadium = New guidelines and I seriously doubt the master-planning, & transport/ crowd gathering & dispersal strategies will be allowed to be based on fans walking up Pittodrie street, Merkland Road, Pittodrie place, or across the golf course onto the esplanade. Yes you can't stop people doing this but you also can't rely on it for a new development.

Resolving or at least cutting the traffic congestion on King Street is not a simple task as it cuts through an established highly populated area and like it or not in Aberdeen the car is king. My last home game was back in December 2016 and eventually got the bus I required to Bridge of Don just after 6pm - more than 1hr stood in the rain. The bus lanes were completely ineffective in the gridlock

 

Like it or not when it comes to traffic control, the moment that Bypass opens Kingsford has the edge over Pittodrie.

Please also remember the Kingsford transport strategy/shuttle bus plan is a proposal. Until it is put into practice no one will know how effective it will be. The transport Scotland conditions require the plan to be reassessed and updated accordingly following each match day

Once flaws are established changes can be made until after a few a seasons the whole thing falls into place.

It is not in the clubs interest for fans to miss kick-offs/ sit in traffic for hours after the game.

 

[Edinburghdon]

It's bollocks though really, isn't it? Regardless of stadium location that is, and not on an anti-Kingsford point, the club are building this facility for themselves not the community. I have no issue with that like, that's entirely the point. However, as far as I'm aware, nobody in Westhill is really arguing against the training pitches. It's the accompanying stadium that's the issue.

 

Of course the club are building it for themselves, quite rightly too but the fact is there are some community facilities, and the benefits of those facilities have been pretty much ignored or downplayed, that's all I was saying. Hopefully those facilities will remain wherever it's built.

 

There has been criticism of the community facilities too by the way. The no kingsford folk have mentioned it quite a few times... but that's by the by.

 

my main point was how anyone expects the infrastructure and transport assessment to be passed at kingslinks.

 

 

[jess]

It's available for use by the community... not really sure why that couldn't be community use?

 

Where's the 1300 spaces coming from at kingslinks? Is there the footprint there for that size of car park? If there is How does that ease congestion on the main routes away from the stadium that are gridlocked after games? It's tolerated currently, a fresh application across the roads changes that though. Maybe I'm missing something but would that really be passed?

 

I mean barring the improved access on foot pittodrie is fucking awful to get to at times from anywhere but on foot and on some bus routes.

 

Just trying to look at it logically.

 

It's 10 hectares - the stadium side of Kingsford is 12.5 hectares and the awkward shape appears to limit it.

 

I don't know all the would be answers to congestion issues leaving. Controlled car parks, better traffic organisation and more buses would aid that I'd think. The AWPR have some impact freeing up roads too?

 

So turning up and using the facilities for free you mean? When would that ever be the case?! Apart from having to pay for use I don't think it's unreasonable to assume it's going to be available for use whenever the club isn't training, much like how hearts facilities have worked well for years (albeit the were erring slightly run down last time I saw it).

 

Basketball too? Let's see how much that would be used.

 

Also, has the club mentioned whether the gym would be available to locals? Can't say I've seen it confirmed that it wouldn't be. So we are up to multiple high quality floodlit grass and allweather pitches, multi use community rooms and possibly a gym. Not exactly nothing is it? Add in a permanent base for the AFCCT and it all mounts up.

 

I honestly can't remember one time in my childhood where I paid to use a community facility or booked anything. Turned up and played football and used changing rooms and whatever.

 

Not saying it wouldn't benefit people in general and have some organised stuff on but it's just not the bored kids and louts turning up in the middle of their community that I associate the thing with. 

[Dunty]

Either I don't understand it or this community stuff is being mindlessly repeated. As far as I've read there will be 5 pitches and 1 or 2 available for hire (cost?) when not being used by the youngsters which I don't think would be very often or at useful times. It's not the local kids being able to turn up and play whenever they want.

 

Apart from that there will be...a cafe?

 

Have a look at the work the AFC community trust so. It's not all about kids or about football. They've just won an award for their work with dementia sufferers.

 

They currently have no "home" as there isn't room at Pittodrie, so they have to go around Aberdeen hiring venues. At Kingsford they could be based there and do far more.

[manc_don]

I associate it with turning up somewhere and using the facilities there. Maybe there's another description for that type of thing.

 

Modernised community use I think of those fully fenced dual fitba basketball courts.

 

Ah so you define community as solely sport, which is precisely what it isnt. There are community sports pitches, yes, and I actually did raise it with the club that they should look at a MUGA (multi use gaming area) to help the application. Guess it's been deemed there isn't a demand or there might be one elsewhere in the community, I don't know.

 

Anyway, the point I'm making is that the internal spaces are there for whatever the community wishes to utilise them for, zumba, yoga, bingo, coffee mornings, whatever. Whilst we are a sporting entity, the work that the afc community trust do goes well beyond football. Icommunity facilities are more than sport.

[jess]

I just associate it with turning up when you require and using whatever facilities are there! Whether that be a gym or computers or some empty room.

 

Shame it's in such an unrequired location if there are indeed community uses.

[Edinburghdon]

It's 10 hectares - the stadium side of Kingsford is 12.5 hectares and the awkward shape appears to limit it.

 

I don't know all the would be answers to congestion issues leaving. Controlled car parks, better traffic organisation and more buses would aid that I'd think. The AWPR have some impact freeing up roads too?

 

I honestly can't remember one time in my childhood where I paid to use a community facility or booked anything. Turned up and played football and used changing rooms and whatever.

 

Not saying it wouldn't benefit people in general and have some organised stuff on but it's just not the bored kids and louts turning up in the middle of their community that I associate the thing with. 

 

Where's this 10 hectare site? What businesses does it involve buying or relocating? Do you think it's possible to cram the same size stadium, the same size car park into a space that's quite a bit smaller? How does the AWPR aid the bottleneck from traffic leaving the site via king street? (I'm guessing it probably won't)

 

Really not sure what you're basing the perception of community facilities as being constantly available at the drop of a hat and free but to be honest I reckon it's nonsense sorry, can't believe anyone would reasonably expect that, just isn't reasonable or practical.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Settle an argument we were having in the canteen the other day whilst discussing your provenance if you don't mind poppet; do you bide wi' yer maw and five cats in a caravan in Garlogie ?

 

 

Aw Claudia, thank you for your concern. I'm sure this is a common feeling amongst the westhill settlers, that locals are all inbred weirdos. Garlogie is 3 miles from you, I realise you've probably never been west of Mason Lodge for fear of being attacked by injuns, but actually we're just like you (except, ye ken, local)

 

Funny thing is, did you see footage of your protest yesterday? Their's your true sados, happy to fuck up the future of our club, your club, and the chance for Westhill youngsters to have world class facilities on their doorstep.

[RicoS321]

The issue with that manc is where do you add them?

The discussion seems to have moved away from 'Pittodrie being redeveloped' to 'new stadium just down the road' but a presumption seems to be the Council would take the view the existing infrastructure is fine.

Crowds and Traffic currently arrive and disperse through residential streets which causes significant disruption to local residents, is a hindrance to emergency services and results in gridlock in the city centre.

Yes the Railway & Bus stations are less than 2miles away but how many home fans do actually use the train to come to the game? (Genuine question as my trips north for home games on the train or bus never seem to end with me fighting through massive hordes of red shirted folk on the station concourses waiting for the West or South bound trains home)

 

In Scotland, St Mirren, Stirling Albion, Dumbarton, East Fife, Falkirk, St Johnstone as I recall all had stadiums surrounded (at least partly) by residential areas. All moved to new stadiums clear of residential property.

 

New clubs Caley Thistle & Livingston's stadiums were built away from residential areas.

 

New stadium = New guidelines and I seriously doubt the master-planning, & transport/ crowd gathering & dispersal strategies will be allowed to be based on fans walking up Pittodrie street, Merkland Road, Pittodrie place, or across the golf course onto the esplanade. Yes you can't stop people doing this but you also can't rely on it for a new development.

Resolving or at least cutting the traffic congestion on King Street is not a simple task as it cuts through an established highly populated area and like it or not in Aberdeen the car is king. My last home game was back in December 2016 and eventually got the bus I required to Bridge of Don just after 6pm - more than 1hr stood in the rain. The bus lanes were completely ineffective in the gridlock

 

Like it or not when it comes to traffic control, the moment that Bypass opens Kingsford has the edge over Pittodrie.

Please also remember the Kingsford transport strategy/shuttle bus plan is a proposal. Until it is put into practice no one will know how effective it will be. The transport Scotland conditions require the plan to be reassessed and updated accordingly following each match day

Once flaws are established changes can be made until after a few a seasons the whole thing falls into place.

It is not in the clubs interest for fans to miss kick-offs/ sit in traffic for hours after the game.

 

Jesus, the stadiums you mention are all absolutely horrendous. If ever there were an advert for not building outside the city, that would be it.

 

If the club - which they aren't - were to re-develop Pittodrie or build at King's Links, there is absolutely no way that the council would refuse it on transport grounds.

 

As for Kingsford edging out Pittodrie, that's a bit far fetched. For vehicle transport, maybe. However, 0 people walking versus a few thousand would definitely sway it in Pittodrie's favour in the 21st century. Setting stuff up for people to drive to is completely regressive. Again, we're nae B&Q. Shuttles have proven in the past to not work, hence the reason there are very few from existing park and ride sites to Pittodrie on a Saturday. Kingsford doesn't even come close to Pittodrie for access options. From the South, it takes me about 25 minutes to get to Pittodrie on match day from past Portlethen and only a ten minute delay on the way out. The bottleneck on King St is a problem, but it's an existing problem. One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that there will be significantly more cars going to Kingsford than there is Pittodrie for the same size crowd, and that can only be a huge step backward, regardless of congestion.

[Garlogie_Granite]

As for Kingsford edging out Pittodrie, that's a bit far fetched. For vehicle transport, maybe. However, 0 people walking versus a few thousand would definitely sway it in Pittodrie's favour in the 21st century.

There will be plenty from Westhill area walking. I doubt there are thousands walk to Pittodrie, you have to exclude those who drive/bus and then walk from your surmisings.

[Edinburghdon]

Shuttles have proven in the past to not work, hence the reason there are very few from existing park and ride sites to Pittodrie on a Saturday.

 

The park and rides towards pittodrie are underused admittedly but they do work.  I'm sure shuttles elsewhere have been discussed in this thread too and examples given on where they work, not got time to dig that far back though.

 

The bottleneck on King St is a problem, but it's an existing problem.

 

I think thats the whole point, its fine saying its an existing problem now, but as soon as plans are lodged for this kingslinks site its no longer seen as an existing problem, just because its tolerated now doesnt mean it'd be seen as acceptable for a new development.

[Claudia Cardinale]

 

Funny thing is, did you see footage of your protest yesterday? Their's your true sados, happy to fuck up the future of our club, your club, and the chance for Westhill youngsters to have world class facilities on their doorstep.

 

Actually G_G, Juventus is my club and back in the day, I often turned out for their Ladies team - not being immodest, but my left pin was described as being "sublime" on more than one occasion.

 

Hence, nae problem with fitba', and although it's an important part of your life, for most people ie. an overwhelming majority, it's at best peripheral, and certainly not worth the hassle & upheaval of Kingsford.

 

Were we talking about using greenbelt land to build a much needed hospital, school, care home, mental health facility or Opera house - that's a joke btw - then fine, greenbelt is breached, but for something as inconsequential as fitba' - with no democratic mandate - no way.

 

More to the point, it's already a total ballache securing a prawn cocktail sandwich from Marks on a Saturday morning, can you imagine what would happen were it to get the go-ahead ?

 

These are the sort of issues no-one has wrestled with.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Actually G_G, Juventus is my club and back in the day, I often turned out for their Ladies team - not being immodest, but my left pin was described as being "sublime" on more than one occasion.

Congrats

 

Hence, nae problem with fitba', and although it's an important part of your life, for most people ie. an overwhelming majority, it's at best peripheral, and certainly not worth the hassle & upheaval of Kingsford.

40,000 at parkred. 80,000 in Union St to see the parade. Those are the keen fans, add on the casual and 'at best peripheral' fans and you'll see why football is our #1 sport.

 

There will be little hassle and upheaval at Kingsford for Westhill residents, that's kinda the point

 

 

 

Were we talking about using greenbelt land to build a much needed hospital, school, care home, mental health facility or Opera house - that's a joke btw - then fine, greenbelt is breached, but for something as inconsequential as fitba' - with no democratic mandate - no way.

1. Our major sports team

2. No idea what your democratic mandate is about, as has been proved time and again, numbers are hugely in favour

 

 

 

 

More to the point, it's already a total ballache securing a prawn cocktail sandwich from Marks on a Saturday morning, can you imagine what would happen were it to get the go-ahead ?

 

These are the sort of issues no-one has wrestled with.

markies might put on more staff perhaps? Or fitba fans wont even be there in a morning? Or, most likely, they won't be going into Markies at all for prawn sandwiches? 

[Tyrant]

Actually G_G, Juventus is my club and back in the day, I often turned out for their Ladies team - not being immodest, but my left pin was described as being "sublime" on more than one occasion.

 

Hence, nae problem with fitba', and although it's an important part of your life, for most people ie. an overwhelming majority, it's at best peripheral, and certainly not worth the hassle & upheaval of Kingsford.

 

Were we talking about using greenbelt land to build a much needed hospital, school, care home, mental health facility or Opera house - that's a joke btw - then fine, greenbelt is breached, but for something as inconsequential as fitba' - with no democratic mandate - no way.

 

More to the point, it's already a total ballache securing a prawn cocktail sandwich from Marks on a Saturday morning, can you imagine what would happen were it to get the go-ahead ?

 

These are the sort of issues no-one has wrestled with.

 

 

I dinna think anyone called William is likely to play for a women's team.

[Ten Caat]

So Claudia is actually Willie the W.A.N.K?