BobbyBiscuit Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It was indeed what I said to Sharpie's mate in the pub on Sunday. I genuinely have no idea who can do a better job than JC, though I don't think JC can do anymore at the club and I know that I wouldn't want any other SPL manager in Yeah, i definitely want JC out. Only problem is that he may be rather hard to shift. He's not going to get the call from the Championship he craves (let's face it, if Burnley were happy to go for Owen Coyle ahead of him, it looks as though that ship has sailed as far as JC is concerned) and the best he could hope for is someone like Norwich who have recently been relegated but Bryan Gunn is still there bizarrely. He's also hit his ceiling in Scotland. Let's hope he has some decency and does the honourable thing and walks away... i'm not holding my breath though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It's the same story though, the fans will still be short changed by the board. The team seems to be getting poorer each season and we never seem to replace those who leave. I'm still quite enjoying the stability we've got at the club at the moment although that doesn't mean I'm happy with the current situation. If a new man was to come in and he set the heather alight then he'd be off down south the minute someone came calling. Then we'd be back to square one. But I think JC could do better with what he has but I also think the board could make his job a whole lot easier. Rebuilding your squad each summer with bottle tops can't be easy and it's almost like they're intentionally making it more difficult for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It's the same story though, the fans will still be short changed by the board. The team seems to be getting poorer each season and we never seem to replace those who leave. It's not as black and white as that. JC chooses how to spend the little budget he has. he's made some appalling choices in doing so - letting Hart go over what was essentially peanuts was a terrible decision, he's spent badly when he's had transfer fees available, Tommy Wright is an example of this. The other side of the coin is that he's brought some very good players in for nothing - Seve, Smith, Kerr etc. You can't just blame the board for not replacing those who leave. I'm still quite enjoying the stability we've got at the club at the moment although that doesn't mean I'm happy with the current situation. If a new man was to come in and he set the heather alight then he'd be off down south the minute someone came calling. Then we'd be back to square one. So we never try to better ourselves just in case the cause of that decides to leave at some point? If he leaves us in a better position than he found us then I don't have much of a problem with that. But I think JC could do better with what he has but I also think the board could make his job a whole lot easier. Rebuilding your squad each summer with bottle tops can't be easy and it's almost like they're intentionally making it more difficult for him. Your first sentence there is spot on. Your second is also correct to a point. It can't be easy for him and that's true, but that's the job. he knew that was the job when he took it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It's not as black and white as that. JC chooses how to spend the little budget he has. he's made some appalling choices in doing so - letting Hart go over what was essentially peanuts was a terrible decision, he's spent badly when he's had transfer fees available, Tommy Wright is an example of this. The other side of the coin is that he's brought some very good players in for nothing - Seve, Smith, Kerr etc. You can't just blame the board for not replacing those who leave. I doubt if JC had any saying over the Hart negotiations when it came to money although I'm quite happy to be corrected on this. Can't disagree on Tommy Wright but there can't be many he's splashed cash on and not got something in return. My main bone of contention is that Anderson left for money and we should have at least used a tiny portion of it to replace him. Clark and Hart went and again that money disappeared (granted we have a huge debt), same goes for the Euro-run money. Surely we should be building on successes to better ourselves? Succeed and you'll get less to work with next season but expected to do as good or better a job seems to be the mantra. So we never try to better ourselves just in case the cause of that decides to leave at some point? If he leaves us in a better position than he found us then I don't have much of a problem with that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I think he's got a difficult job that's not being made any easier by his employers. Your first sentence there is spot on. Your second is also correct to a point. It can't be easy for him and that's true, but that's the job. he knew that was the job when he took it. When he first took over there seemed to be a fair amount of backing from the board and money to spend. Each year it appears to be less backing as they're not prepared to pay a few hundred a week to keep players like Hart, they sell players he'd rather keep and watch players head for more money. Granted there's nothing they can do about the last one but they could go some way to replacing them with better players than ones who can't even get a game at their own clubs. At one point we were attracting names like Nicholson, Severin, Smith, Miller, etc..... and now after Top Six finishes(!), a Euro-run and selling players we're getting folk like Duff, Mair, Bossu, Young. Something's not right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I doubt if JC had any saying over the Hart negotiations when it came to money although I'm quite happy to be corrected on this. Unfortunately, I don't have time just now to discuss the rest of your post, but I can tell you that decision lay at JC's door. he decided that the money (and it wasn't even a few hundred pounds a week extra as you later suggest) would be better spent elsewhere. Atrocious decision making especially considering we had already lost Anderson from that defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Fair dos. I always got the impression Willie did the contract negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Fair dos. I always got the impression Willie did the contract negotiations. He does. but how the money is spent and apportioned is still down to JC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Willie - "Here's your contract Mikey, anything you want to discuss". Hart - "Aye, the money". Willie - "Fuck all to do with me". Find that hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubo72 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Have to admit, I don't remember loving Hart that much when he was here... Now he's been gone a while it's like he was some sort of world-class defender that we let slip through our fingers. He wisnae and isnae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 We're fucked. We'll finish 5th. Time for a change of management. Nit! We can still finish 4th Time for a change of fans I think KMG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 That wasn't really the point. The point is he never wanted to leave, JC gave the impression he didn't want shot of him and we haven't replaced him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Dingus certainly isn't the answer, though it does appear a fair few fans seem to think so. Can't say I see the evidence for this apart from his red history. Dingus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Dingus? To narrow it down you need to have been around in the early to mid eighties, and he is being championed by a.n. other site as our knight in shining armour Get it yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 To narrow it down you need to have been around in the early to mid eighties, and he is being championed by a.n. other site as our knight in shining armour Get it yet Yeah just a little before my time. I'll assume its mcghee For the record if JC leaves i want eric black. I know there are issues with experience and if he would even take the job, only reason i want him is because its my gut instinct that he is the right choice. Given the options available this seems a good enough reason as any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Well if the options are someone that's not very good and someone that's not very experienced then why don't we just close this line of conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Well if the options are someone that's not very good and someone that's not very experienced then why don't we just close this line of conversation? Ferguson wasnt very experienced when we took him in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Steve Paterson wasnt very experienced when we took him in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggy89 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I hear "Big Gus" might be available around October/November time . I still have a feeling Jimmy is on his way to Norwich in the summer. Not sure who I'd want to replace him, although I am in agreement that McGhee isn't the answer. Too like for like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Paterson had loads, managed inverness for 5 years and huntly for a good few before that. maybe not top flight experience but still plenty in charge of a football club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harcus Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Willie - "Here's your contract Mikey, anything you want to discuss". Hart - "Aye, the money". Willie - "Fuck all to do with me". Find that hard to believe. I would imagine it's more a case of - Willie - "Haw Jim, that's Mickey Hart wanting a few extra hundred pound a week. Worth it?" Jim - "Eeeegghhhhhmmmmm, I eggghhhmmm dunno there Willie. I'm bound to pick up a good SPL right back from somewhere. How's that contract for Big Deke coming?" And here we are in the present, with Dicky Foster and Javan Vidal fighting over the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Willie - "Here's your contract Mikey, anything you want to discuss". Hart - "Aye, the money". Willie - "Fuck all to do with me". Find that hard to believe. That's not what i said wise guy. Just read the words that are on the page, you'll do a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Wasn't trying to be a wise guy. I just can't see how you could negotiate a contract without holding the purse strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Wasn't trying to be a wise guy. I just can't see how you could negotiate a contract without holding the purse strings. Then why try to be funny about it? The fact is, Calderwood is told how much he has by Miller, JC then tells him how much he wants to spend on each player/area of the team. WM goes into negotiations with the players and it goes from there. If things go outwith the allocated budgets JC is asked if he agrees/disagrees/wants to check out alternatives. Hart left us because of peanuts per week, not hundreds. JC's decision. And JC has spent way more trying to replace him than it would have cost to give him the contract he wanted. But JC didn't want to pay him the same contract as guys he'd signed for us. Arsehole, on a grand, grand scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I've read my post three times now and I'm still struggling to see where I'm trying to be funny about it. I was merely playing it through to show where I was coming from. But I bow to your superior knowledge of how everything works behind the closed doors of Pittodrie. Maybe you should tell JC he's an arsehole on a grand, grand scale the next time you're in there snooping around. Personally I'd have thought "hundreds of pounds" was "peanuts" for professional football players so that's why I opted for hard currency rather than monkey feed. So I find it difficult to imagine a player who wanted to stay at the club, driving himself out of a job over such a trivial amount. Regardless of who is handling the money. If it's not hundreds then we're £199 or less every month. I've met Mikey on a number of occasions (friend of a friend) and he's far from being the sharpest tool in the box. But I'll be fucked if I'm swallowing that. It could all well be true mind you, as I said I'm quite happy to be corrected on this. Maybe it's just sheer pig headedness that won't let me believe my club is being managed as badly as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajja Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 So, enough bickering people, let's get back to the 'arithmetic': Tues, May 12 Dons 0 Cheatin', hackin', divin', time wastin' scum 0 Celtic 2 UTD 1 Table Hearts 55 GD 0 UTD 53 GD +3 Dons 50 GD +1 Sat, May 16 Huns 2 Dons 0 Hearts 1 UTD 0 (or any 1 goal victory for the scum) Table Hearts 58 GD +1 UTD 53 GD +2 Dons 50 GD -1 Sun, May 24 Dons 3 Hibs 0 Celtic 28 Hearts 0 (Who gives a shit at this stage) UTD 1 Huns 2 (or any 1 goal defeat) Final table Hearts 58 GD -27 Dons 55 GD +2 UTD 55 GD +1 So the first gate is that if we assume that we lose (but not heavily) at Ibrox. Some may dispute this but lets err on the side of caution. The second gate is that Hearts beat UTD. The more goals the better but lets asusme 1 for caution again. These cretins play on at 3pm so will already know the result of our game which might play for us or against us depending on how we do. The Hearts UTD result is most critical as it puts us within a sniff of the Jutes going into the final bend. UTD win or draw and we get nothing at Ibrox and the game is up. The third gate is that we will probably need to stick at least 2 or 3 past Hibs without reply and hope the huns don't choke at Tannadice. I'm still confident that we will pass them at the line. C'MON YOU REDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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