x

[westenddon]

That is how you see it but that is not the way that I along with others saw it.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one as you won't change your mind.

 

That's fair enough.

 

On the unrealistic expectations note, I put it forward on the Hat that the unrealistic expectations thing would come out again when folk seemed to expect McGhee to rubber Celtic and drive straight up to Aberdeen.

[westenddon]

That is complete nonsense.

 

One off games suggest a problem with management but 38 game seasons don't?

 

How many competitions were we in under Calderwood when we failed to make a final even. 10 was it?

 

Some pathetic surrenders and embarrasments in there. It'd seem Calderwood wasn't able to motivate the players for the majority of the big one off games, chugging along racking up the points is fine but when it came down to beating a team inferior to us when we had a good chance to acheive something and get a trophy - it wasn't there and if it happens again and again and again then clearly there's a problem somewhere.

 

He had a year to sort us out after QoS and he blew it again in carbon copy fashion.

 

So defeat against the old firm is unacceptable. Defeat against a bottom 6 team is unacceptable. Defeat against a top 6 ish (What is that when a bottom six team is unacceptable?) is "less dissappointing".

 

Effectively, what you are saying is that defeat in the cups is unacceptable and dissappointing.

 

What circumstances make it more or less dissappointing? For example, if we are struggling in the league, would that make it more acceptable?

 

I reckon if we are struggling in the league it definitely less acceptable.  

 

Hard to say without judging it on it's own merits.

 

If we're struggling in the league (say 6th or 7th rather than 10th) then I'd say it'll be really disappointing to go out earlyish as we're wanting to keep our season alive. If we're clear in 3rd and are knocked out of the cup then it's perhaps not the be all and end all.

 

Also depending on what happens in the game, if we're hanging on with 10 men at Tynecastle and the ref is a cheat and we go out on penalties then it's more acceptable if we've just been crap and been beaten 2-0.

 

It starts to become a real issue when a manager has been here a while and horrific things like QoS and Dunfermline become the norm. That's also the point where there's less tolerance of previously "acceptable" cup defeats as the manager has had so many chances previously.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Having a good league position at the END of the season would be a bit more important than when we get beaten in the cup. I'd have thought that good league position would suggest we SHOULD be winning our cup games and would therefore be indicative of problems in management.

[Andrew]

I think he could do better with the chances he has at Aberdeen than he did at Motherwell. I honestly couldn't see him bottling the tactics as we did when we went ahead at East End Park, and I think he'd have taken advantage of the favourable draw that we got last season. Or to put it another way, if McGhee had a QoS moment then you can be sure there wouldn't be a repeat of it the following year.

McGhee can create a defence that can stand up to pressure, not have faith in players who clearly aren't good enough, not be completely clueless tactically that his own players mock him for them, identify players from a wider pool and use the budget more wisely and he can have a relationship with the fans based on mutual respect - not based on him acting like he's doing us a favour by being here.

 

In short, I believe he can do better with what he has than the previous manager did.

 

It's funny you should say that as I was reading Motherwell Mad earlier and they were saying how they are glad MMG is gone because of his cup exits to inferior opposition, baffling tactics and playing players in the wrong positions. It sounds like we're swapping JC for JC.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Jimmy and Jimmy came to Aberdeen full of enthusiasm for the club. Mark McGhee is coming because Celtic don't want him.

 

You seem to have major issues with McGhee, CTS. The guy grew up as a Celtic fan, you can't blame him for seeing if he's going to get that gig. He's also said that coming to Aberdeen is like "coming home" so we're obviously close to his heart as well.

 

However, in this thread the people arguing against McGhee in his record v JC are skewing things a little. It honestly sounds as though you're writing him off before you've given him a chance.  The fact he has done nothing in the cups doesn't make JC's record in them any better, ye know? (and he's only had 2 seasons, compared to Calderwood's five.) 

 

I don't think we can look at things as "he's no better than JC". It's largely irrelevant before he's even had the opportunity to put his team out on the park.  Give the guy a chance.  The bickering between the folk from the hat and here always goes on so that reality is embelished to back up each side's points and the same has been done here.  JC has left the Dons in a good position for McGhee to come in and try to improve things further.  The fact he was interested in the Celtic job should not be held against him, he'll be named Aberdeen manager and will do his best for us, the same as JC did.  It's understandable if you didn't want JC to get the sack, but that's not Mark McGhee's fault.  I also don't think Motherwell were involved in a relegation battle per se, that's stretching the truth a little.

[CtS]

I'll be 100% behind MM when he gets the job, I just cant understand the unjustified hero-worship of the man when he's proved nothing in management. 

 

I've already stated in another thread that no manager in his right mind would choose us over Celtic. 

 

I'm not going to defend Jimmy's cup record, we've had atrocious results, but westenddon is assuming McGhee will do better while I see no evidence to support that.

 

Motherwell were in the shit for a long spell last season.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I'll be 100% behind MM when he gets the job, I just cant understand the unjustified hero-worship of the man when he's proved nothing in management. 

 

I've already stated in another thread that no manager in his right mind would choose us over Celtic. 

 

I'm not going to defend Jimmy's cup record, we've had atrocious results, but westenddon is assuming McGhee will do better while I see no evidence to support that.

 

Motherwell were in the shit for a long spell last season.

 

As we're continually reminded on this site, it's where you finish at the end of the season that matters. Although it wasn't great (or was it acceptable, i'm not sure, he was "only" at Motherwell) they were well out of the relegation scrap.  We were also at the bottom of the league last season at one point, but it's where we finished that Jimmy should be measured by I'm sure you'd agree.  There are a lot of variables when comparing JC to MM, but you need to remember that we're a considerably bigger club than Motherwell.

[CtS]

BB, afc matters more to me than Jimmy Calderwood ever did. I think it was the wrong decision, but McGhee will get the full backing of the supporters - I'm sure of that.

 

I'm not writing him off, he was my hero when I was 9, and I hope he can become just as much of a talisman as manager.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

 

I just feel compelled to rail against complete idiots BB, the ones expressing delight at Calderwoods demise and the likely installation of a guy who is another good manager. I hope he does well, perhaps a fresh approach is something everyone needs. I have nothing against Dingus for hankering for the Celtic job and welcome his imminent arrival. I just don't get the overwhelming clamour that there has been from some.

[BigAl]

I just feel compelled to rail against complete idiots BB, the ones expressing delight at Calderwoods demise and the likely installation of a guy who is another good manager. I hope he does well, perhaps a fresh approach is something everyone needs. I have nothing against Dingus for hankering for the Celtic job and welcome his imminent arrival. I just don't get the overwhelming clamour that there has been from some.

 

Completely agree with your last sentence TF. Puts me in mind about the wankfest there was when we signed Tommy Wright. The hero status given to him prior to even kicking a ball was embarassing, and I mind saying to my boy at think it was Love St or Fir Park that it was completely over the top.

 

Anyway, made no secret that Dingus was never going to be my first choice, but no one will give him more backing than I will.

[Kowalski]

2nd place in the league, quarter finals of Europa League, and a domestic cup win in his first season, or I'm staging a protest.

[Edinburghdon]

2nd place in the league? Where's your ambition?

 

You'll get the team you deserve!......................

[BigAl]

2nd place in the league, quarter finals of Europa League, and a domestic cup win in his first season, or I'm staging a protest.

 

Have you got a date in mind already, or going to wait for the fixtures to be announced next Wed

[Superstar Tradesman]

I think objectives and expectations are a little premature if we don't know how much the new man has to play with in the transfer market.

 

New managers usually rejuvenate things at their new clubs but other than the style of play, I don't see us doing that much more than we did last season.

 

Whomever comes in will still be faced with the same financial restraints.  Possibly even moreso with the current crisis with the banks.

 

If the new man gets to bring in a few of his own players then I'd expect an improvement on last season.  If not then I'm inclinded to think I'd accept a place in Europe and 2 quarter final cup runs just like last season as it's not his squad and we haven't taken a step back.

 

Some might see that as lacking ambition but I just think that's being realistic.

[Harcus]

Have you got a date in mind already, or going to wait for the fixtures to be announced next Wed

 

Is that when they get announced? Magic. Hope we get a decent game first.

 

Edit: I see the league gets started on August 15th. Seems quite late, no?

[BigAl]

Is that when they get announced? Magic. Hope we get a decent game first.

 

Edit: I see the league gets started on August 15th. Seems quite late, no?

 

Yep, Wed 17th I believe.

Perm any one of Well, Tic or Mini Huns away just to add a bit of spice to things, provided of course Dingus is manager

[BigAl]

Somebody has yet to say that their expectation is to be entertained and think they are receiving value for money. Or do we think that is unrealistic?

 

Looks to me like the supporters' objectives are still very much result orientated rather than wanting exciting fitba?

 

Think both elements are important Jager, but would hazard a guess that most folk would take results over and above entertainment. No point in playing great football and losing week in week out.

Get the results first, and entertainment can follow.

 

Alternatively as someone [ and can't remember who ] once said if you want entertainment on a Saturday afternoon take the missus to the pictures

[BigAl]

 

Alternatively as someone [ and can't remember who ] once said if you want entertainment on a Saturday afternoon take the missus to the pictures

 

Got a feeling it was someone connected to Killie.

Jolly Jim or Blobby Williamson 

Anyone ?

[Superstar Tradesman]

Think both elements are important Jager, but would hazard a guess that most folk would take results over and above entertainment. No point in playing great football and losing week in week out.

Get the results first, and entertainment can follow.

 

Alternatively as someone [ and can't remember who ] once said if you want entertainment on a Saturday afternoon take the missus to the pictures

 

She available this weekend Al?

[BigAl]

She available this weekend Al?

 

Only if you don't want paid

[Kowalski]

Have you got a date in mind already, or going to wait for the fixtures to be announced next Wed

 

Might wait until towards the end of the season while we've still got something to play for 

[Harcus]

Got a feeling it was someone connected to Killie.

Jolly Jim or Blobby Williamson 

Anyone ?

 

It was Bobby, when he was at Hibs. Fella I was friendly with refused to go to Easter Rd under while Williamson was there.