Aberdeen vs St. Mirren (19/09/09)

[mizer]

Stoney, you are deluded if you think this is better fair than anything we've seen over the past 5 years. At least after last years bad start there was an expectation that we would come good. I don't have that expectation this season and feel that our results fail to paper over the glaring deficiencies in our performances except for the extremely foolish or deluded such as yourself.

 

If you exclude the horrific Europa cup games, you could say we have done better than a few of Caderwoods seasons. And I would say there should be more hope that the team can come good as it is new to McGhee. However he has caused himself problems by playing Miller constantly and making Kerr captain and in my opinion need dropped to make a point to them. However it should have been done by now and he is locked with them for two very important games this week.

[KGB]

No holding you back today eh KGB

 

It's amazing how tolerant you can feel coming off of a nightshift and gettting 4 hours kip 

[paulinho]

The only positive that can be taken from Mark McGhee's tenure thus far is the improvement in defence, after the two games against Sigma Olomouc and the opening league game at home to Celtic, considering Diamond has been out injured.

 

Four clean sheets against Hamilton, Falkirk, Motherwell and St Mirren is very good with huge credit due to Jamie Langfield but McGhee really needs to address the creative and goalscoring problem which is partly down to his insistence on playing 4-3-3.  Aluko, Mcdonald, Miller, Mackie and Maguire are five of the better attacking and/or creative players in the side and they are players who are better suited to a 4-4-2.

 

McGhee's already admitted that the players at his disposal aren't suited to a 4-3-3 so why doesn't he revert back to 4-4-2 until he gets those players in?  Smacks of stupidity and ignorance.

 

One or two wins in place of the draws would've had the team in third place and possibly even second.  Report card reads: Must do better

 

I also disagree with the poster above who says we should exclude the Sigma games when comparing McGhee to Calderwood (I don't see the need for comparisons).  If you exclude the Dunfermline/Queen Of The South/Queens Park games from Calderwood's reign then he did a superb job at Pittodrie.

[manc_don]

The only positive that can be taken from Mark McGhee's tenure thus far is the improvement in defence, after the two games against Sigma Olomouc and the opening league game at home to Celtic, considering Diamond has been out injured.

 

Four clean sheets against Hamilton, Falkirk, Motherwell and St Mirren is very good with huge credit due to Jamie Langfield but McGhee really needs to address the creative and goalscoring problem which is partly down to his insistence on playing 4-3-3.  Aluko, Mcdonald, Miller, Mackie and Maguire are five of the better attacking and/or creative players in the side and they are players who are better suited to a 4-4-2.

 

McGhee's already admitted that the players at his disposal aren't suited to a 4-3-3 so why doesn't he revert back to 4-4-2 until he gets those players in?  Smacks of stupidity and ignorance.

 

One or two wins in place of the draws would've had the team in third place and possibly even second.  Report card reads: Must do better

 

I also disagree with the poster above who says we should exclude the Sigma games when comparing McGhee to Calderwood (I don't see the need for comparisons).  If you exclude the Dunfermline/Queen Of The South/Queens Park games from Calderwood's reign then he did a superb job at Pittodrie.

 

 

I think it smacks of being egotistical! My way or the highway sorta stuff. We are a 4-4-2 team at the moment, so why not play to the teams strengths.....its like deja vu....

[bilbobaggins]

 

If you exclude the horrific Europa cup games, you could say we have done better than a few of Caderwoods seasons.

 

 

That's some serious logic at work.

 

 

 

[mizer]

 

 

That's some serious logic at work.

 

 

I dont think it is a better start btw folks 

[paulinho]

manc_don - McGhee's insistence on playing 4-3-3 is even more strange when you consider that he's promoted Fraser Fyvie to the first team.  A midfield four of Mcdonald on the right, Kerr holding, Fyvie in front and Aluko on the left would provide more balance and play to the strengths of the four players.

 

Kerr is nothing more than a destructive player who is there to break-up play and provide cover for the defence, both Mcdonald and Aluko thrive on running with the ball which they will get the opportunity to do on the wings (in turn stretching teams), and Fyvie looks to have great passing potential which he'd be able to do if played behind the forward two and in front of Kerr.

 

The 4-3-3 causes so many problems for the forward six as they are being asked to do jobs they are not suited to.  Lee Miller ending up on the wings being the case in point.

[glasgow sheep]

 

I think it smacks of being egotistical! My way or the highway sorta stuff. We are a 4-4-2 team at the moment, so why not play to the teams strengths.....its like deja vu....

 

Has he not said we will be playing 442 for the foreseeable future, until he can bring in players capable of playing 433?

[Kowalski]

We played 442 on Saturday, so hopefully that's the end of the 433 nonsense.

 

[manc_don]

Has he not said we will be playing 442 for the foreseeable future, until he can bring in players capable of playing 433?

 

Lets hope so!

[minijc]

We played 442 on Saturday, so hopefully that's the end of the 433 nonsense.

 

Aye cause it was such an improvment... :yawn:

[paulinho]

@ minijc - Would you prefer that we played 4-3-3 when it's clear we currently don't have the players for this system (bare in mind that McGhee has also admitted this)?

[Ajja]

I'm still willing to give MM the benefit of my support on this season despite a slow start. Its easy to point to a lack of any real progress and to start sharpening the knives at this early stage but there is a lot of work to be done and its not going to happen in 7 games. The two positives for me are:

 

1. Defence.

It might be clutching a bit to point to 4 clean sheets in a row but its very good progress on the first 3 games of the season and we would all have bitten hands off for that after the Celtic game. As McGhee has said, building from the back is a tried and tested route to success. I seem to remember it being a feature of JC's reign, the only problem being that we never really built on that foundation. I personally feel MM is more likely to do so. With a solid defence, not leaking goals every week we have a better chance of building confidence through the side. Its easy to suggest that when we come up against a better side than in recent weeks we will be found out but until it happens then we should give them the benefit of the doubt. For most, that seems to be an illusive trait, much easier to jump on the managers and the teams back before it has even happened.

 

2. Youth.

We have been screaming for this for years and finally we have both a pool of talent and a management team who not only talk about it as the core strength but are actively blooding players. We all know that young players seldom possess consistency and will blow hot and cold. We have to accept that performances from a team with youth players involved will suffer these ups and downs. When it works (see Hamilton) then it will be successful, when it doesn't it will be ugly (see Falkirk). However, th eonly way to get the consistency is to persevere. Again, patience is not a trait on display in this thread. Much easier to offer knee jerk, angst ridden reactions.

 

Its not easy supporting this team but you have to be willing to be patient. Most of us ran out of it with Calderwood but we should avoid expecting immediate changes as a result. It will take time to get things working and periods where tangible results are not obvious does not mean that there is not progress being made.

 

Dillusional ? Possibly. Naive ? Maybe. Realistic ? Certainly.

 

Lets try to be patient and give up on the opening of wrists for now ?

[KGB]

I'm still willing to give MM the benefit of my support on this season despite a slow start. Its easy to point to a lack of any real progress and to start sharpening the knives at this early stage but there is a lot of work to be done and its not going to happen in 7 games. The two positives for me are:

 

1. Defence.

It might be clutching a bit to point to 4 clean sheets in a row but its very good progress on the first 3 games of the season and we would all have bitten hands off for that after the Celtic game. As McGhee has said, building from the back is a tried and tested route to success. I seem to remember it being a feature of JC's reign, the only problem being that we never really built on that foundation. I personally feel MM is more likely to do so. With a solid defence, not leaking goals every week we have a better chance of building confidence through the side. Its easy to suggest that when we come up against a better side than in recent weeks we will be found out but until it happens then we should give them the benefit of the doubt. For most, that seems to be an illusive trait, much easier to jump on the managers and the teams back before it has even happened.

 

2. Youth.

We have been screaming for this for years and finally we have both a pool of talent and a management team who not only talk about it as the core strength but are actively blooding players. We all know that young players seldom possess consistency and will blow hot and cold. We have to accept that performances from a team with youth players involved will suffer these ups and downs. When it works (see Hamilton) then it will be successful, when it doesn't it will be ugly (see Falkirk). However, th eonly way to get the consistency is to persevere. Again, patience is not a trait on display in this thread. Much easier to offer knee jerk, angst ridden reactions.

 

Its not easy supporting this team but you have to be willing to be patient. Most of us ran out of it with Calderwood but we should avoid expecting immediate changes as a result. It will take time to get things working and periods where tangible results are not obvious does not mean that there is not progress being made.

 

Dillusional ? Possibly. Naive ? Maybe. Realistic ? Certainly.

 

Lets try to be patient and give up on the opening of wrists for now ?

 

Another sensible post. On the whole your right so I think its a wait and see until everything beds in. Feel more positive after reading that, lets hope I still feel the same after the Dundee game 

[Kowalski]

Aye cause it was such an improvment... :yawn:

 

You were happier with 0-0?

[bilbobaggins]

I don't think anyone is sharpening knives. There are a couple of spastics who are now telling us that black is white and white is black and it needs pointing out. Imagine a 0-0 draw with Motherwell last year, instead of the solid defensive performance it would have been a nightmare defensive display with the tombola and a team set to cancel out Motherwell, "a team we should be attacking".

 

The hypocrisy is galling.

 

 

 

[Ajja]

I don't think anyone is sharpening knives. There are a couple of spastics who are now telling us that black is white and white is black and it needs pointing out. Imagine a 0-0 draw with Motherwell last year, instead of the solid defensive performance it would have been a nightmare defensive display with the tombola and a team set to cancel out Motherwell, "a team we should be attacking".

 

The hypocrisy is galling.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you on that score Bilbo, some peoples views can swing significantly depending on which direction they are looking from. It seems the need to be proved right is clouding the need to be sensible and realistic. I think as a support, we need to move away from this jousting about where we have been and focus on some real analysis around where we are right now and how we might move forward. Like I said above, it isn't going to change overnight and if we don't give MM time to get it right we will be back to the knee jerk pressure that saw us binning managers at a furious rate. The landscape has changed markedly and patience is essential.

[mizer]

I agree with you on that score Bilbo, some peoples views can swing significantly depending on which direction they are looking from. It seems the need to be proved right is clouding the need to be sensible and realistic. I think as a support, we need to move away from this jousting about where we have been and focus on some real analysis around where we are right now and how we might move forward. Like I said above, it isn't going to change overnight and if we don't give MM time to get it right we will be back to the knee jerk pressure that saw us binning managers at a furious rate. The landscape has changed markedly and patience is essential.

 

i thought you were above middle management speech ajja.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I agree with you on that score Bilbo, some peoples views can swing significantly depending on which direction they are looking from. It seems the need to be proved right is clouding the need to be sensible and realistic. I think as a support, we need to move away from this jousting about where we have been and focus on some real analysis around where we are right now and how we might move forward. Like I said above, it isn't going to change overnight and if we don't give MM time to get it right we will be back to the knee jerk pressure that saw us binning managers at a furious rate. The landscape has changed markedly and patience is essential.

 

well said Ajja.