Aberdeen v Dundee 22/09/2009

[BobbyBiscuit]

"needless management changes" is a matter of opinion though.

[baggy89]

At least in the short term it is looking very much like a side ways step in terms of improvement, at best. It's not even as if McGhee was going anywhere else this summer and would still have been available next - at far less cost to the club. He would also have been able to bring in more of his own players and not been "left with Jimmy's dross".

[El Padre™]

"needless management changes" is a matter of opinion though.

 

Needlessly expensive.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Needlessly expensive.

 

That's more to do with the decision to reward them with 3 year contracts. That's what was needlessly expensive.

 

At least in the short term it is looking very much like a side ways step in terms of improvement, at best. It's not even as if McGhee was going anywhere else this summer and would still have been available next - at far less cost to the club. He would also have been able to bring in more of his own players and not been "left with Jimmy's dross".

 

I don't disagree with you there with any of that, but the fact is that sometimes you have to gamble. I personally think we were stagnating and had been doing so for some time, without getting into it fully, we had only won a few matches in 2009, if they had stayed with them for this season and that continued (it may well do under McGhee of course) the board would get pelters for that too.

[Roccovellhung]

That's more to do with the decision to reward them with 3 year contracts. That's what was needlessly expensive.

 

I don't disagree with you there with any of that, but the fact is that sometimes you have to gamble. I personally think we were stagnating and had been doing so for some time, without getting into it fully, we had only won a few matches in 2009, if they had stayed with them for this season and that continued (it may well do under McGhee of course) the board would get pelters for that too.

 

Ah, the old 3 year contract argument, in hindsight a year too long however since we were still in the UEFA cup that season, 4th in the league, in the semi of the league cup and obviously still in the scottish cup it is perhaps understandable?

[BobbyBiscuit]

Ah, the old 3 year contract argument, in hindsight a year too long however since we were still in the UEFA cup that season, 4th in the league, in the semi of the league cup and obviously still in the scottish cup it is perhaps understandable?

 

Perhaps it is understandable, but as you allude to yourself, what was wrong with 2 year contracts?

[glasgow sheep]

Exactly, theres been no progress at all this season. Even the 3-0 win against St. Mirren was pish. I said at the time it papered over the cracks and every week this becomes more and more apparent as McGhee fumbles around trying to fix something that in my view wasn't fucking broken in the first place, at least not until he sauntered in with his 4-3-3, his ice baths, and goalkeeper coaches who aren't really goalkeeper coaches but are dieticians although they aren't really dieticians theyre goalkeeper coaches. 

 

And by the way, for anyone who has any questions about Grassi, he's fucking shite.

 

It was Hamilton we beat 3-0.

 

I would dsagree that there weren't problems in the team before MM came on board. In fact I would suggest there have been significant problems in the team for a couple of years now and neither JC or MM have managed to solve them.  MM has clearly exacerbated these problems with 433 but hopefully he will now be avoiding that for the rest of the season.  Whether JC or MM have had the resources to solve them or not is another matter, and how managerial change effected these "resources" is yet another.

 

Last night was unacceptable, despite the spin I may have tried to put on it earlier.

What we do to change things I have no idea.  It looks like we will be relying on crossing our fingers and hoping that our youth players turn out to be super heroes is the best chance we'll have in the forseeable future

[BrownyBrown]

Awarding JC / JN & SC an extended 3 year contract may have been the wrong decision with the aid of hindsight, however I don't see the sense in compounding that mistake by paying them off and replacing with a manager who hasn't been supported to effect the changes to the team that are required to make it worth that gamble.

 

I don't think anyone here takes pleasure in seeing McGhee's team get knocked out of the cup at this stage but I think we have to take the long term view that 1 season is not enough to implement wholesale change. With that, I can agree with Stoney. (The rest of his fishing attempts that everything is rosy is pish though - and shows him up for the clown that he is) 

 

However the football played and decisions made that we've had from McGhee's tenure so far is utterly shite:

 

• Captain selection
  
• Ability to scout and sign quality players
  
• Man-management of both staff and players
  
• Tactical buffoonery
  
• Lacking motivational skills
  

 

I really hope he has something up his sleeve, because 'youth players' as some sort of magic cure for all our problems just doesn't cut it for me.

[paulinho]

@bobbybiscuit - You have to ask if the reasons for replacing Calderwood with McGhee were valid enough to warrant a large figure of compensation being paid to Calderwood, Clark, Nicholl and Motherwell (I've heard various figures so don't want to speculate the exact figure) which has in turn affected our budget for this coming season.

 

We're led to believe that Calderwood was axed because the board had lost faith that he could take us to the next level, in other words passed the semi-finals and into a final, but a major element that was overlooked is the fact that Calderwood's hands were tied season after season with his best players leaving (Anderson, Clark, Hart, McNaughton, Heikinnen) and the financial constraints he had to work under.  This doesn't excuse the unacceptable results against Dunfermline, Queens Park and Queen of the South but a sense of reality is sometimes needed.  We have no right to win these games.

 

Once Calderwood was punted the board had to then bring in a man who they felt could take us to a final under those same constraints that Calderwood worked under.  That man they chose was McGhee.

 

The board will have known what was/n't going to be available to McGhee by this point or at least what they were going to make available.  It has been alluded to in interviews that McGhee knew he had next-to-nothing to work with which begs the question why he wasted time chasing players he knew we couldn't get?

 

McGhee spent a lot of time chasing targets that were quite simply out of his price range (the Plymouth pair and Hughes at Motherwell), it's easy with hindsight for me to say that he should've made take it or leave it offers from the outset, I understand that negotiations are more complex than that, but it would have been refreshing to see a manager trying to take the power from players again.  We were ultimately used as a bargaining tool by Hughes and the wages the Plymouth pair were on far exceeds our budget.  I am not going to discuss the Reda Johnson situation as that is more complicated than we know by the sound of things.

 

Ask anyone who has watched us for the last to years what we needed to bring into the squad and 99.9% will have answered, "right back, no-nonsense centre half, central midfielder and a natural poacher."

 

McGhee signed the no-nonsense centre-half, and a left back.  Yes he chased Paterson (the right back we need), Hughes (the midfielder we need) and Maclean (the goal poacher we need) but we all knew how this was going to turn out.  I haven't spoken to anyone who was confident of signing these players.  And that includes McGhee who admitted he wasn't hopeful when asked.

 

McGhee has since continued playing a formation that he's admitted he doesn't have the players for, fallen out with arguably our best player in a monumental fuck-up which both player and club should be held accountable and brought in one single player that only slightly improves our set-up (Ifil has come into the side at a difficult time so it's hard to say if he's what we need).

 

The board has claimed that the compensation figure is not affecting the footballing side of the club which I believe is nonsense because taking money out of any business that's in debt will have an effect, unless of course the compensation was paid out of the pockets of our directors which then adds to the confusion and brings up another debate.

 

Quite simply, this was a massive and extremely difficult job.  And it's looking very much like it's too big a job for McGhee.  I hope he proves me wrong but judging it on what I've seen so far this is going to be a spectacular failure.

[BobbyBiscuit]

@bobbybiscuit - You have to ask if the reasons for replacing Calderwood with McGhee were valid enough to warrant a large figure of compensation being paid to Calderwood, Clark, Nicholl and Motherwell (I've heard various figures so don't want to speculate the exact figure) which has in turn affected our budget for this coming season.

 

Yes, and you also have to ask yourself what sort of opportunity cost was taken into account over whether JC stayed or not.

 

As I said, it was a gamble. It may still come off for us but I am far from convinced it will, unfortunately.

[paulinho]

@bobbybiscuit - I do not believe we would be in the situation we currently are if Calderwood had remained in charge and was given even a quarter of the compensation money to improve his squad.

 

I don't want to continue the debate surrounding Calderwood as he's been and gone but the current problems at the club need to be addressed now not later.

 

I am not suggesting that McGhee is the sole problem, I personally believe the board are to be perfectly honest, but he's not helping the situation with the errors he's continually made since he's come in.  I can't think of a single thing he's done right since his appointment and that's soul-destroying. 

 

This should be an exciting time in the club's history, new manager effect, but it's the exact opposite.

[Roccovellhung]

Perhaps it is understandable, but as you allude to yourself, what was wrong with 2 year contracts?

 

Ah min, never thought my last thread was worth a -1.....booooo

 

Onyway, at the time JC was holding out on signing a new contract, therefore maybe it was because he was holding out for a 3 year deal and the board eventually conceded.

 

Is that worth a +1 now? and maybe a thumbs up smiley?

[bilbobaggins]

Ah min, never thought my last thread was worth a -1.....booooo

 

 

That'll be Mizer

[BobbyBiscuit]

@bobbybiscuit - I do not believe we would be in the situation we currently are if Calderwood had remained in charge and was given even a quarter of the compensation money to improve his squad.

 

It's all ifs buts and maybes though.  And for the record, I'm led to believe he would have seen not a penny of that money for transfers.

[baggy89]

Ah min, never thought my last thread was worth a -1.....booooo

 

Onyway, at the time JC was holding out on signing a new contract, therefore maybe it was because he was holding out for a 3 year deal and the board eventually conceded.

 

Is that worth a +1 now? and maybe a thumbs up smiley?

 

I still think the board smelt money, we had a manger who had taken us to Uefa last 32 (and drawn with Bayern at home), CIS Semi, decent league position, with a small and limited squad. There wasn't a managerless CCC club who wouldn't want that. The unfortunate thing is there wasn't.

[Sharpie]

I still think the board smelt money, we had a manger who had taken us to Uefa last 32 (and drawn with Bayern at home), CIS Semi, decent league position, with a small and limited squad. There wasn't a managerless CCC club who wouldn't want that. The unfortunate thing is there wasn't.

 

Good call Baggy. Not the first or last time Milne has taken a gamble and lost.

[Sharpie]

Was Leitch arguing with Dons fans in the stand after the game?

 

What was this about Kowalski?

[Kowalski]

What was this about Kowalski?

 

Must have been bullshit posted on another forum, if nobody else heard or seen anything.

*hangs head in shame*

[Wazzamatazz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aberdeen/8270968.stm

 

Ouch.  Very strong words from Joe Harper.  Can't say I disagree with what he's saying though.

 

Edit: Just noticed that the article says he defended Willie Miller but if you listen to the interview he actually says that Miller should be out looking for people who will put money into the club.

[quirie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aberdeen/8270968.stm

 

Ouch.  Very strong words from Joe Harper.  Can't say I disagree with what he's saying though.

 

Edit: Just noticed that the article says he defended Willie Miller but if you listen to the interview he actually says that Miller should be out looking for people who will put money into the club.

 

Very strong words and like you said dont disagree with 1 word of it

[BobbyBiscuit]

One of the few times in my life I agree with Joe Harper.

 

There is absolutely no character in that side and he's bang on the money in saying that we have athletes on the pitch, not footballers.

[quirie]

On a lighter note did anyone else hear the Shaun the sheep tune being played at half time last night?

[capitalsharpie]

Spot on Joey.  Have to say though, listening to MM, I have very rarely heard such a negative interview from a manager from any club, not just in tone, but in sentiments expresssed.  I got the impression that if he could, he would stick the lot of the senior players on the transfer list today.

[minijc]

However the football played and decisions made that we've had from McGhee's tenure so far is utterly shite:

 

 

Captain selection Who do you think would have been better?

Ability to scout and sign quality playersPicked up a decent central defender, had his budget been the same as Jimmys in his first season I am sure we'd have a few quality players in

Man-management of both staff and players you still cut up about that dour faces cunt Leighton?  Meldrum to me seems like a better option, the players are there to please MM not the other way around

Tactical buffoonery he plays a 4-3-3 he gets slaughtered, same happens when he plays a 4-4-2 what do you suggests he does?

Lacking motivational skills Aye, at 2-0 last night he failed to motivate those players, they are bottlers.

[Goldie03]

One of the few times in my life I agree with Joe Harper.

 

There is absolutely no character in that side and he's bang on the money in saying that we have athletes on the pitch, not footballers.

 

Yeh just heard his interview and he is spot on but our fucking players are no athletes either - they were second to nearly every ball after 20 minutes last night  at this moment in time I hate them all