Kowalski Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/old-firm-need-to-help-improve-the-league-they-re-in-1.925421 Old Firm need to help improve the league they’re in Mark McGhee Published on 10 Oct 2009 The prospect that Celtic and or Rangers (I can’t remember anyone at Ibrox fantasising about it publicly) will one day play in the English Premier League has once again been raised. Only by Peter Lawwell, it has to be said, and not by the chairman or chief executive of that league. I would like to go on the record now and say that Aberdeen would also fancy playing in the English top flight and that we would appreciate Peter including us in any conversations that he might have regarding abdication. I think all of the other clubs in Scotland would feel equally keen to have a crack down south. The millions that are on offer down there would be hard to resist for any of us. I’m not sure, though, that the chairmen of West Ham, Wolves, Burnley and Portsmouth were all phoning round each other on hearing Peter’s comments suggesting that they do their best to expedite Celtic’s move. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. On examination, what do Celtic have to offer the English Premier League? Full houses and one of the best ?travelling supports in Britain, not a lot else. And the travelling support would be curtailed anyway by the fact that most matches are as good as sold out by home fans. I think that Celtic talking publicly about this is rude and disingenuous to the rest of us. Peter said that no club other than Celtic or Rangers will win the SPL and that seems true at the moment, although his team didn’t win it last year any more than Aberdeen did so what are the criteria for being included in the application to defect? Clearly being champions is not one of them so Aberdeen tick that box. Perhaps winning a European trophy is one? Well Aberdeen were the last Scottish team to win a cup in Europe if I am not mistaken, so we tick that box. We would certainly sell out if the likes of Manchester United or Liverpool were coming to town. Another tick. Aberdeen don’t attract the 60,000 that Celtic do but we would extend our plans for our new stadium to accommodate the numbers that would be attending these matches. We would build a modern out-of-town stadium that would make Celtic’s hemmed-in Parkhead seem antiquated. Under the present structure the Old Firm clubs will never get to play in England. Only some sort of independent breakaway group, which would probably include the European “super clubsâ€, would offer that possibility, but how would that work? Something like that would represent the final frontier in football. What would happen when the fans of those clubs tired of that competition? There would be nowhere else to go. It would be the end of the modern game. A strong global game relies on strong national competitions. Most countries are similar to Scotland, and that includes England: only a few clubs have the resources to win the national competition. In the last 10 years only three clubs have won the English Premier League. That represents 15% of the clubs in that league. In Scotland’s case the figure is over 16%, which renders that argument spurious. That the other clubs would be better off without the Old Firm is another opinion that is repeated. How they would be better off has never been explained to me. Automatic qualification for one of us into the Champions League seems like an attractive proposition but in the absence of the two Old Firm clubs Uefa would soon change that. How would it affect the national game? Would it lead to a British team and the loss of our national identity on the international stage? Eventually. Don’t Celtic care about protecting that, or do they put self-interest first? Surely, rather than bleating on about something that will never happen, the two Glasgow giants should look closer to home and help address some of the problems facing Scottish football. As finances are squeezed year on year we will be forced to source our new players from lower and lower down the leagues and from abroad. This process will erode the quality of the competition and Celtic and Rangers will increase their domination of the Scottish game. We have to look really seriously at the whole structure of our game if we are going to maintain any sort of standard in our competition. And like it or not Celtic and Rangers are, and are going to remain, a part of it. The Glasgow clubs have the power with the broadcasters and can drive the process. We need help now or our game will become irrelevant in the scheme of European leagues. The SPL will soon be viewed internationally on the same terms as The League of Ireland. Its status is important to Celtic and Rangers so there is self-interest in them contributing. Investors and sponsors as well as broadcasters and the media will lose interest if the quality of the competition is allowed to deteriorate much further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 As I said in the football chat section, McGhee's spot on. Call it delusional if you want (it almost certainly is), but then so are the OF's dreams of playing down south. If Celtic care to remember, in the early 90's when this was mentioned by the English, the teams who were going to be invited were the huns and us. That was because we were the best sides and because the TV dollar hadn't come into play at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minijc Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 As I said in the football chat section, McGhee's spot on. Call it delusional if you want (it almost certainly is), but then so are the OF's dreams of playing down south. If Celtic care to remember, in the early 90's when this was mentioned by the English, the teams who were going to be invited were the huns and us. That was because we were the best sides and because the TV dollar hadn't come into play at that point. Agree with you BB, I also took it as him having a pop at them in a more tongue in cheek manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Call it delusional if you want (it almost certainly is), but then so are the OF's dreams of playing down south. I wouldn't want us playing in the English League. I welcome the Infirm fucking off though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I wouldn't want us playing in the English League. I welcome the Infirm fucking off though. If it meant more money and greater opportunity for us in a football and marketing sense then I'd be all for it... if we didn't do it, someone else would. (not that it would ever happen, of course). I've said it before that I think the OF leaving the SPL would be nothing but a disaster for Scottish Football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I wouldn't want us playing in the English League. I welcome the Infirm fucking off though. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Agreed. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Why? That's just the way I feel about it Bobby. But i've no doubt though that if they were to leave i'd somehow miss them, and if we went down south i'd really enjoy it. But as a great man once said, "True happyness is knowing you're a hypocrit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolenrouge Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I picture a scene - a bright, crisp April afternoon. The Diet huns have filled their end at 'todders, after all they are only one point off the lead, behind Aberdeen. Tickets are like gold, sold out a week or two earlier, the last being sold after the single voucher requirement is lifted. A full house sees the mighty Dons take a three point lead at the top of the table, after all, in another sell out Utd beat Hibs to move a point clear of Hearts. Game on. Next weeks trip to Tannadichie is sold out, if we lose Utd join us at the top. Meanwhile Dundee pull off a shock at New McDairmid to go tie in third. 'Cos everyone is still in with a shout of the league all games sold out. Meanwhile Rangers and Celtic are battling out the English Premiership but nobody is watching because Match Of The Day concentrated on Man U v Chelsea and Arsenal V Spurs. The OF put in a complaint that the EPL is too 'London-centric'. Aberdeen win the league in front of a full house, could have gone four ways on the last day and we have to watch the highlights on BBC Sportscene and Scotsport on Sunday afternoon, after a wee bit of curling from Perth Ice Rink. I can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 That's just the way I feel about it Bobby. But i've no doubt though that if they were to leave i'd somehow miss them, and if we went down south i'd really enjoy it. But as a great man once said, "True happyness is knowing you're a hypocrit" You'd surely miss beating them? You'd surely miss the build up to the matches against them at Pittodrie? They go, and who do you look forward to? United? Hertz? Hibs? Hamilton? And that's the most exciting it'd get all season. It's not that exciting as it is with the OF, but it's a hell of a lot more interesting with them than without them. Some people will never admit to that, but if we're ever to win that league again I want us to do it by beating those two cunts. A fair wedge would be swiped off my satisfaction were we to win it after the OF had gone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minijc Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I picture a scene - a bright, crisp April afternoon. The Diet huns have filled their end at 'todders, after all they are only one point off the lead, behind Aberdeen. Tickets are like gold, sold out a week or two earlier, the last being sold after the single voucher requirement is lifted. A full house sees the mighty Dons take a three point lead at the top of the table, after all, in another sell out Utd beat Hibs to move a point clear of Hearts. Game on. Next weeks trip to Tannadichie is sold out, if we lose Utd join us at the top. Meanwhile Dundee pull off a shock at New McDairmid to go tie in third. 'Cos everyone is still in with a shout of the league all games sold out. Meanwhile Rangers and Celtic are battling out the English Premiership but nobody is watching because Match Of The Day concentrated on Man U v Chelsea and Arsenal V Spurs. The OF put in a complaint that the EPL is too 'London-centric'. Aberdeen win the league in front of a full house, could have gone four ways on the last day and we have to watch the highlights on BBC Sportscene and Scotsport on Sunday afternoon, after a wee bit of curling from Perth Ice Rink. I can live with that. So, when the league is the way you imagine it, it will only be two points for a win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I picture a scene - a bright, crisp April afternoon. The Diet huns have filled their end at 'todders, after all they are only one point off the lead, behind Aberdeen. Tickets are like gold, sold out a week or two earlier, the last being sold after the single voucher requirement is lifted. A full house sees the mighty Dons take a three point lead at the top of the table, after all, in another sell out Utd beat Hibs to move a point clear of Hearts. Game on. Next weeks trip to Tannadichie is sold out, if we lose Utd join us at the top. Meanwhile Dundee pull off a shock at New McDairmid to go tie in third. 'Cos everyone is still in with a shout of the league all games sold out. Meanwhile Rangers and Celtic are battling out the English Premiership but nobody is watching because Match Of The Day concentrated on Man U v Chelsea and Arsenal V Spurs. The OF put in a complaint that the EPL is too 'London-centric'. Aberdeen win the league in front of a full house, could have gone four ways on the last day and we have to watch the highlights on BBC Sportscene and Scotsport on Sunday afternoon, after a wee bit of curling from Perth Ice Rink. I can live with that. Lovely. But the problem is we've lost our European places cos us and Hibs went into the Champs League and got fuck all points, United and Hearts got less than that in the Europa League and then we have no TV money coming in because the two bigot brothers have fucked off. And because of that, sponsorship hits the lowest levels ever. Players leave and the players we bring in to replace them are almost 1st/2nd division level, but hey.. we may still win the league... Eventually we'd be part time in a full time stadium. Take the romantic view all you want, and many do for some reason. The OF leave and we're up the swanny, make no mistake about that. I hate them as much as the next man, but if you even begin to kid yourself on that the rest can cope without them then you're in dream world. The game has changed far too much for that to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 You'd surely miss beating them? You'd surely miss the build up to the matches against them at Pittodrie? They go, and who do you look forward to? United? Hertz? Hibs? Hamilton? And that's the most exciting it'd get all season. It's not that exciting as it is with the OF, but it's a hell of a lot more interesting with them than without them. Some people will never admit to that, but when we win that league again I want us to do it by beating those two cunts. A fair wedge would be swiped off my satisfaction were we to win it after the OF had gone... Aye, I do agree with a lot of that, I just get pissed off with them alot and would enjoy them to fuck off. I was always under the impression that if they did fuck off they'd still play in Scottish Cup, so we'd still play them a bit. But, don't you get excited when we play Hearts/Hibs/United? Oh, and fixed that bit for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 But, don't you get excited when we play Hearts/Hibs/United? I like seeing us against those teams, but can you say with hand on heart that you look forward to those fixtures as much as you do for the ones against the tims and huns? When the fixtures are announced at the start of the season do you rush to see when we're playing hibs at home or to see when we're playing the huns at home? I know what your answer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolenrouge Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Nah, keep the three points for a win. Also to reply to BobbyB, I seem to remember a huge and vibrant rivalry with Utd when the OF weren't the main players, if only for a couple of years. The point I was making is that once they go we will find our excitement, no problem. Maybe its time we relied on crowds and not on TV. True the European places might fade, but here's another thought - Why are Scottish footballers so crap? Or are they? The whole '80s 'golden generation' didn't come from money, they were just good. I know my thoughts are halcyon but there you go. I would rather be smaller and successful rather than also rans like now. How we do that is only in dreams, but no OF is a dream I would love to see reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minijc Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well then this doesn't work, you'll need to go rewrite the rules mate. after all they are only one point off the lead, behind Aberdeen. Tickets are like gold, sold out a week or two earlier, the last being sold after the single voucher requirement is lifted. A full house sees the mighty Dons take a three point lead at the top of the table, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolenrouge Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I'm nae good at maths but I thought Utd won to go a point ahead of Hearts??? It was a dream after all !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minijc Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Aye but we were apoint ahead o hearts yet aftera win only 3 ahead of them, therefore it's a 2 points system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Nah, keep the three points for a win. Also to reply to BobbyB, I seem to remember a huge and vibrant rivalry with Utd when the OF weren't the main players, if only for a couple of years. The point I was making is that once they go we will find our excitement, no problem. Maybe its time we relied on crowds and not on TV. True the European places might fade, but here's another thought - Why are Scottish footballers so crap? Or are they? The whole '80s 'golden generation' didn't come from money, they were just good. I know my thoughts are halcyon but there you go. I would rather be smaller and successful rather than also rans like now. How we do that is only in dreams, but no OF is a dream I would love to see reality. I remember the New Firm days too mate. But are you seriously suggesting that Miller, McLeish, McGhee, Black, Hewitt, simpson, McKimmie, Nicholas, Sturrock etc were no better than the guys we're watching these days? Scottish footballers today, in my view, are fucking garbage. You are suggesting otherwise, good for you to have such a positive attitude about it, but you're wrong. You're very, very wrong. A positive outlook is lovely, it's no substitute for a realistic outlook, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I like seeing us against those teams, but can you say with hand on heart that you look forward to those fixtures as much as you do for the ones against the tims and huns? When the fixtures are announced at the start of the season do you rush to see when we're playing hibs at home or to see when we're playing the huns at home? I know what your answer is. Oddly enough, i've only managed to see us play Hibs once in 3 years. In terms of away games, I'm as happy going to Tannadice and Tynecastle as I am to Ibrox. I never bother going to Celtic Park. I also think any atmosphere at Celtic home games is pretty crap these days too. But lets be honest here, they're not going anywhere. We should put all our effort in sorting out the set-up of Scottish football, you know, an 18 league team, with promotion/relegation going all the way to the Highland league etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolenrouge Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Mini mate, Hibs are now second in my dream. Bobby, thats the point - why were those players so far advanced from the Playstation generation we have now? Oh, aye, Playstation. To reitterate - I am only dreaming, not making hugely valid points here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolenrouge Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Cripes, I meant Uts. I was a bit pissed and on Xanax. When the dream occurred like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Oddly enough, i've only managed to see us play Hibs once in 3 years. In terms of away games, I'm as happy going to Tannadice and Tynecastle as I am to Ibrox. I never bother going to Celtic Park. I also think any atmosphere at Celtic home games is pretty crap these days too. Yeah, but the atmosphere at every other game is great... But lets be honest here, they're not going anywhere. We should put all our effort in sorting out the set-up of Scottish football, you know, an 18 league team, with promotion/relegation going all the way to the Highland league etc. Are you kidding? Come on, which teams are going to vote to lose the income of playing the OF (potentially) twice more to bring in Dundee, Ross Co, Partick Thistle, Morton etc? I don't disagree with your proposal at all, but Aberdeen themselves wouldn't vote for it would they (they would be mad to, on a purely business level) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Yeah, but the atmosphere at every other game is great... I'd say the atmosphere is much better when we play Hearts then when we play Celtic. Are you kidding? Come on, which teams are going to vote to lose the income of playing the OF (potentially) twice more to bring in Dundee, Ross Co, Partick Thistle, Morton etc? I don't disagree with your proposal at all, but Aberdeen themselves wouldn't vote for it would they (they would be mad to, on a purely business level) ? EXACTLY! There was a last line to my post that said "But that won't happen either" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolenrouge Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Never worked better than when it was a ten team league. As long as you didn't get relegated like. Are we beyond that now? I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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