Curse of the Noughties

[BobbyBiscuit]

The "noughties" (I really hate that term actually) hasn't been a stellar success for the Dandies.  A lot of it has been as painful as the latter part of the 90's.  For the first part of the 90's we had a team which sparkled with exciting players, worthy of the shirt and the gate money. They still didn't win much though.  But there was great anticipation going to watch them.  It pains me to say that was the last time I had that feeling about the Dons.

 

The last ten years has seen a plethora of low quality players through our books and a plethora of results I never thought I'd witness our club go through. The last few years has seen a much needed stability and improvement generally speaking but we are still way short of where the club should be.  The "highlight" of which was the UEFA Cup run. Our side did well all things considered, but it is a sign of how far we have sunk that the club saw fit to release a DVD of the "success".  I find things like that utterly frustrating.  Aberdeen FC should have more to crow about than a series of draws, one win and ultimately a 5-1 pumping from a handful of games.

 

But now we've got a young team with the potential to have a big impact on the Scottish game. 

 

So, are things going to change?  where do you see us in 5 years time?  Is the next Cup win just around the corner? Is this an exciting time to be a Dons fan or is it just more of the same?

[bilbobaggins]

I can't see us ever regularly challenging the OF again in the near future. I think that's the yardstick and we are a long way from it.

 

Let's hope Pawlett, Paton, Fyvie and Macguire can collectively wipeout our debt so we can really start again.

[BigAl]

Thought provoking post Bobby.

My youngest and myself were talking about this very subject just the other night. He has just turned sixteen, we have one one trophy during his lifetime and even then he can't remember it. I'm of the opinion that better times are around the corner for the Dons. JC for all his faults, brought a degree of stability and respectability back to AFc in the main. It would appear that he probably wasn't going to kick on from that, and that mediocrity was probably going to be par for the course. From what I've seen from Dingus to date, I think he might just kick us on. Some might say, he has inherited a number of good young players rather then developed them and brought them through, but he hasn't been frightened to blood them. I like the way Dingus and Leitch seem to proactively be seeking out new players, well ahead of transfer windows, and certainly give the impression of being better organised than the previous regime. Next couple of months, could prove very important in terms of our progress, i.e can we get who they want in during Jan, and secondly can we resolve the out of contract players they wish to retain.Feeling optimistic today, and predict better times are ahead, it won't happen overnight, but as they patience is a virtue

[baggy89]

I can't see any significant changes until the club can shift the ever tightening noose round our neck that is the £12 million (and rising) debt. This young team if it matures into what, at this stage there is the merest hint of, it will be broken up to service the debt/fund the move to the new stadium.

 

In an ideal world in 5 years we will be in a state of the art stadium with no debt. Unfortunately if you were to base the next 5 years on the previous 15 under the stewardship of Milne, the club will in all likelihood be £40 million in debt, still playing at Pittodrie, with the white elephant of an unfinished stadium on the outskirts of Aberdeen that the ever dwindling support don't want. 

 

I'm not entirely sure where this optimism comes from, from certain parts of the Aberdeen support. Yes we have some youth coming through, we had groups of "exciting" prospects under Ebbe and Pele where are they now? Jimmy generally had a young squad (before any of the usual suspects start this is not JC argument merely a point). I've not been home this season and usually only get to one or two games a season but the stuff on TV looks no better or worse than any performance I've seen over the last 10 years.

 

I'm afraid it's a sad time to be, not just an Aberdeen fan, but probably a fan of any club not in England Spain or Italy's top leagues or in the top two or three of that clubs respective country. The really depressing thing is I'd say we are 5 years behind Hib's at the minute (in terms of training facilities, level of debt, and ability to pay fee's for the right players).

 

I hate to say it but the question crosses my mind more and more nowadays "where would we be now if we had lost on the 6th of May 1995?" I'd hate to have had Relegation and Administration on our history books but something like that would have at the very least stabilised the club, wiped the debt and allowed us to build from a decent base with a galvanised support and staff. We may only be at the same level we are now but we wouldn't owe the bank several million pounds. At the minute we seem to stumble from 5 year plan to 5 year plan, with the support frightened to rock the boat for fear of our "guarantor" walking out and leaving us up the the proverbial.

 

*edit* May ya numptie

[BobbyBiscuit]

I'm not entirely sure where this optimism comes from, from certain parts of the Aberdeen support. Yes we have some youth coming through, we had groups of "exciting" prospects under Ebbe and Pele where are they now? Jimmy generally had a young squad (before any of the usual suspects start this is not JC argument merely a point). I've not been home this season and usually only get to one or two games a season but the stuff on TV looks no better or worse than any performance I've seen over the last 10 years.

 

I have to say I'm struggling to think of any exciting players who came through under Ebbe or Pele.  I don't think any Dons fan would have claimed any of those players as "exciting".  The last real prospect before this crop would have been Russell Anderson or possibly Stephen Glass before him.  I think this lot have the potential to be somewhere like the Jess and Booth era. It is only potential, of course.

 

I hate to say it but the question crosses my mind more and more nowadays "where would we be now if we had lost on the 6th of June 1995?" I'd hate to have had Relegation and Administration on our history books but something like that would have at the very least stabilised the club, wiped the debt and allowed us to build from a decent base with a galvanised support and staff. We may only be at the same level we are now but we wouldn't owe the bank several million pounds. At the minute we seem to stumble from 5 year plan to 5 year plan, with the support frightened to rock the boat for fear of our "guarantor" walking out and leaving us up the the proverbial.

 

Interesting point re the play offs in 95.  What I would say though is that it is entirely possible that the debt could have been worse with Premier League players on Premier League wages playing in the first division with first division gates and revenues. It is unlikely in those days the club would have had an "in case of relegation" clause in their contracts considering we'd finished 2nd in 4 of the previous 5 seasons.

Then, had we been promoted, would we have seen any different approach in the transfer market to what we saw under Aitken and Alex fucking Miller anyway? I still get a feeling we'd have thrown an awful lot of good money after an awful lot of shit.

[baggy89]

Whisper when you say this but I seem to remember the likes of Darren Mackie, Stephen Payne, John Stewart, Scott Muirhead, Scott Morrison and  Ryan Esson. Being talked up by Aberdeen fans as players with potential. Wasn't it Scott Michie who broke all kinds of scoring records at youth and reserve level and big things were expected when he broke through (I may be thinking of someone else here). Kev McNaughton hardly helped service the debt with his big transfer and before that we had Phil McGuire, the Young brothers.

 

I really hope, like you say, this lot do achieve their potential but Aberdeen's recent history is littered with players not reaching their potential and/or Aberdeen not receiving the full "potential" transfer fee's for these players.

[Azteca1903]

I suppose the next five years will be big for the club. We can't afford to let the debt spiral any further and yet we seemingly can't afford to stay at Pittodrie much longer. How the change of stadium is managed will be key and all we can hope for is that we emerge with better facilities and financially no worse off. This isn't looking to likely at the moment admittedly.

 

There's only really two realistic ways we can reduce and eventually be rid of the debt; regular Euro qualification and success on the pitch, or selling our best players when their stock is highest. The first option is obviously high risk, would require investment in fees and wages and ultimately has no guarentees of success - many have tried and failed. The only way forward I can see is to get our best youth players tied down to long term deals ASAFP ( a la Pawlett) and getting rid for as high a fee as we can squeeze. If we are able to get a few million out of even two or three players (Fyvie and Pawlett the main candidates currently) then we will get closer to running the club without this twelve million pound cloud above us. Until then I imagine we could be treading water - or worse - for quite some time.

[Guest ally s]

 

I think Willie Miller coming in and helping to overhaul the scouting and youth side of things has helped. It's given fans for the first time in a long while the opportunity to be more positive about all things AFC.  The introduction of Pawlett, Fyvie, Paton, and Megginson emphasises this no end.

 

We are supposedly using Hibs as a benchmark when it comes to dealing with our young players, if we follow this successfully then hopefully a chunk of our debt can be paid off by selling the young lads for a handsome profit.

 

This of course is all rather idealistic and we may yet lose them for fuck all in a few years time but fingers crossed we've learned our lessons.

[manc_don]

Excellent thought provoking posts in this thread so far. And I must say, its something that I'm sure most of us have spent plenty of time debating. I think it is even more critical now, that the club get a Cup win, to galvanise our support, and possibly the hangers on. Obviously this won't make much of a dent in the debt, but it will be a starting point. I think people have lost faith in the club, which is certainly something I gather from BB post. Whether or not the players find it in their hearts to provide it to the support is another thing, but I think Dingus is slowly making good roads forward. We needed change, and I just hope he provides us with the catalyst to kick on from what was a mediocre, but solid base.

 

Regular European football and getting the rest of the youngsters like Pawlett has done, to sign long term deals is the highest priority the club should be dealing with. We need to accept we will probably have to become more of a selling club, and ensure we follow the HIVs model of tarting our players.

[bilbobaggins]

I dare say winning the Scottish Cup this year would help the youngsters visibility and would also bring a European place and hopefully some fans out of the woodwork. However, we stumble from one fuck up to the next in the cups, all the way back to Stenhousmuir.

 

I fully expect us to be pumped out by Hearts and i think many fans are at the stage where if you expect fuck all you can't be disappointed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ajja]

When you are drawing comparisons with the past you have to couch that analysis with the changing environment. In terms of Scottish football, I would suggest that change has been fairly catastrophic. Baggy alluded to the fact that if you are not part of the primary tier of world football then you are probably sinking pretty fast, at best treading water (as someone else described).

 

We have one pretty significant dilemma as a football club in the modern game and that is that we strive for success but success will always bring instability. If McGhee does manage to turn on the engines they will not burn long before he is gone. Likewise with young players, the climate is such that preditors are too thick on the ground to ever hope to bring any quality youth product up for more than 2 years before they are gone.

 

As has been said by many, our best route to any form of success is to continue the  work done in finding good quality at youth level, investing in it and bringing players through but most importnatly taking the risk to sign them up long term. If we can get these component parts right then we have half a chance of building some financial strength under the club and then slowly crawling out of the mire. Only then will we be able to look at reasonable competition and challenging consistently.

 

The only caveat I would add is that the OF are dropping like stones in our domestic set up. If they are the benchmark to 'success' on a domestic level then it might be more obtainable in the short term than people believe. European money is drying up and the loyal support base is dwindling. They have some way to go before they are in the mess that most other Scottish clubs ar ein but they are not used to the scrapping mentality and this could become crucial in seasons to come, who knows possibly even this one. They will be out of their comfort zones and so will their supporters right now. The opportunity is there to make some ground, even with a crippling debt and a disaffected support. COyR.

[baggy89]

Excellent thought provoking posts in this thread so far. And I must say, its something that I'm sure most of us have spent plenty of time debating. I think it is even more critical now, that the club get a Cup win, to galvanise our support, and possibly the hangers on. Obviously this won't make much of a dent in the debt, but it will be a starting point. I think people have lost faith in the club, which is certainly something I gather from BB post. Whether or not the players find it in their hearts to provide it to the support is another thing, but I think Dingus is slowly making good roads forward. We needed change, and I just hope he provides us with the catalyst to kick on from what was a mediocre, but solid base.

 

Regular European football and getting the rest of the youngsters like Pawlett has done, to sign long term deals is the highest priority the club should be dealing with. We need to accept we will probably have to become more of a selling club, and ensure we follow the HIVs model of tarting our players.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say now is sad time to be supporting a club with little or no money to spend. The lure of the "Greatest" leagues in the world the television coverage of "minority" sports means that your average person can think of a lot of other activities to partake other than go to the football.

 

Although the support and club histories cannot be compared, in the last 11 years Cheltenham have been to three "cup finals" (FA Trophy, and two League 2 play-off Finals) all of which they have won. With Cheltenham taking circa 20000 fans to each. This has done nothing to increase average attendances for league games, however.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, Aberdeen fans can look inwards and blame the general malaise down Pittodire Street and point to the mediocrity that Jimmy accepted. As a supporter of another shite team in another shite backwater league I can asure you the malaise is not just in Aberdeen but probably in everyboard room in the country. The only "success" I see in the English lower leagues is from clubs spending outwith their means. I'm not so sure Jimmy maybe wasn't just a realist, then again realism is not a word that sits comforatbly with football fans.

[Azteca1903]

This is what I'm talking about when I say now is sad time to be supporting a club with little or no money to spend. The lure of the "Greatest" leagues in the world the television coverage of "minority" sports means that your average person can think of a lot of other activities to partake other than go to the football.

 

Although the support and club histories cannot be compared, in the last 11 years Cheltenham have been to three "cup finals" (FA Trophy, and two League 2 play-off Finals) all of which they have won. With Cheltenham taking circa 20000 fans to each. This has done nothing to increase average attendances for league games, however.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, Aberdeen fans can look inwards and blame the general malaise down Pittodire Street and point to the mediocrity that Jimmy accepted. As a supporter of another shite team in another shite backwater league I can asure you the malaise is not just in Aberdeen but probably in everyboard room in the country. The only "success" I see in the English lower leagues is from clubs spending outwith their means. I'm not so sure Jimmy maybe wasn't just a realist, then again realism is not a word that sits comforatbly with football fans.

 

You do wonder how any 'success' would affect the support. Say for example the huns continue to fall spectacularly to an extent where we're in with a realistic shout for second, would the average gate increase at all? Bearing in mind that by the time any such demise of hunnery occurs the stock of Scottish football will have fallen to the point where second brings merely the Europa League or at best half a dozen CL qualifiers beginning in late May. Would a cup run increase gates? Would we have to be pushing for the title? Or do people just want this fabled attractive football that we were infamously starved of by Calderwood?

 

The real catch 22 is that when the Old Firm crumble, Scottish will probably do so too, as none of the other clubs are likely to make any significant step up in quality. If we are ever at the point of competing with them in the near future it will probably mean that the league perilously close to a level of European obscurity (as touched upon in another thread) and crowds will, as a result, naturally have declined accross the board. I've always thought we should be commanding more than circa 12k in average crowds for a city of our size with no direct competitor for miles, but perhaps this just isn't possible no mater how well we're doing.

 

What a cheery Friday this is turning out to be 

 

 

[BobbyBiscuit]

i think many fans are at the stage where if you expect fuck all you can't be disappointed.

 

I think I hit that point some years ago, I'm sorry to say.  For years one thing that has stuck in my throat is how meekly we cave in to absolutely anything, and I'm not just talking about on the pitch.  This can be traced back years, possibly even to the club failing to give Simmie the support he deserved when he was being hounded out the country because of one mistake. 

 

Be it the media giving us it tight or other clubs having a go at us - how many times did the fans get called for all sorts by the huns and the press only for there not to be a peep out of Pittodrie?  It was indicative of the play by those masquerading in our red shirts.  They were pea-hearted and it ran right through the club.

 

McGhee and Miller seem to be creating the "siege mentality" again and it's not before time. We shouldn't be giving a fuck about upsetting our rivals or the establishment, in fact, we should be getting our retaliation in first. We have to get back to having passion around our club.  The passion is in the support, but it needs kick started sometimes and we have to see that those at the club share the passion.  If the perception those at the club give is one of apathy then that seeps into the support.  If we are going to go forward then the PR from the club has to be right. They've put themselves into so many positions in the past where even their supporters want to stick the boot into them for the slightest of things. That has to stop.

[Ajja]

You do wonder how any 'success' would affect the support. Say for example the huns continue to fall spectacularly to an extent where we're in with a realistic shout for second, would the average gate increase at all? Bearing in mind that by the time any such demise of hunnery occurs the stock of Scottish football will have fallen to the point where second brings merely the Europa League or at best half a dozen CL qualifiers beginning in late May. Would a cup run increase gates? Would we have to be pushing for the title? Or do people just want this fabled attractive football that we were infamously starved of by Calderwood?

 

The real catch 22 is that when the Old Firm crumble, Scottish will probably do so too, as none of the other clubs are likely to make any significant step up in quality. If we are ever at the point of competing with them in the near future it will probably mean that the league perilously close to a level of European obscurity (as touched upon in another thread) and crowds will, as a result, naturally have declined accross the board. I've always thought we should be commanding more than circa 12k in average crowds for a city of our size with no direct competitor for miles, but perhaps this just isn't possible no mater how well we're doing.

 

What a cheery Friday this is turning out to be 

 

I'm not convinced that the second paragraph would necessarily pan out as we might expect. Undoubtedly the demise of Scottish football would come closer with a drop in the fortunes of the OF. However, we Scots are pretty perochial in our nature and we don't tend to look beyond our borders when engaging with sport at this level. The global context that the OF have found themsleves dreaming of in recent years in not a natural part of our culture, its more about a 'bolt-on' support that has attached itself to success which has come very easily at a domestic level. I wouldn't underestimate the core support among Scottish football fans for a level playing field. I'm not suggesting that thousands or extra fans would turn up for a good old scrap on a muddy field but on the whole I think most clubs in Scotland would see at least a sustaining of crowd levels with improved opportunity.

 

I agree it does still leave us with the problem of being increasingly marginalised on the international stage, making no progress in Europe and younger generations being reared on the glamour and success of Man UTD, AC Milan and Barcelona. However, I think the domestic game would still survive in a form not much poorer than it is now....can it go much lower ? There is a fundemental excitement with Scottish football among Scottish people that I have faith in to keep us at some sort of acceptable level of quality. I may be too romantic in my thinking with that one though.

[Azteca1903]

I'm not convinced that the second paragraph would necessarily pan out as we might expect. Undoubtedly the demise of Scottish football would come closer with a drop in the fortunes of the OF. However, we Scots are pretty perochial in our nature and we don't tend to look beyond our borders when engaging with sport at this level. The global context that the OF have found themsleves dreaming of in recent years in not a natural part of our culture, its more about a 'bolt-on' support that has attached itself to success which has come very easily at a domestic level. I wouldn't underestimate the core support among Scottish football fans for a level playing field. I'm not suggesting that thousands or extra fans would turn up for a good old scrap on a muddy field but on the whole I think most clubs in Scotland would see at least a sustaining of crowd levels with improved opportunity.

 

I agree it does still leave us with the problem of being increasingly marginalised on the international stage, making no progress in Europe and younger generations being reared on the glamour and success of Man UTD, AC Milan and Barcelona. However, I think the domestic game would still survive in a form not much poorer than it is now....can it go much lower ? There is a fundemental excitement with Scottish football among Scottish people that I have faith in to keep us at some sort of acceptable level of quality. I may be too romantic in my thinking with that one though.

 

Hopefully that is the case but its difficult to see any expansion of fanbase when quality is so low and decent football is so easily accessible. I think the best we can hope for is that this malaise is merely cyclical and Scottish football will begin to imrprove in the relatively near future. But its difficult to see how this will happen, and where it would leave Aberdeen in the grand scheme of things.

[Ajja]

Hopefully that is the case but its difficult to see any expansion of fanbase when quality is so low and decent football is so easily accessible. I think the best we can hope for is that this malaise is merely cyclical and Scottish football will begin to imrprove in the relatively near future. But its difficult to see how this will happen, and where it would leave Aberdeen in the grand scheme of things.

 

In determining the possible future of Aberdeen within the context of Scottish football I would suggest that there are some painful axioms:

 

1. We cannot change the influx of glamour football into our TVs and PCs so we have to live with that global market force.

 

2. There will be bigger clubs with more money than us to plunder our resources.

 

3. The OF are not going to leave Scottish football.

 

4. It is unlikely that we will see root and branch change in Scottish football.

 

With all this in play I think the best we can hope for is that the OF get weaker as they struggle to adapt to a dropping market. Remember, we have all had a number of years to adjust to the loss of quality signings and revenue that comes from success on the park. The OF will potentially continue to try to suck the teat of European football for as long as possible and will likely do this by trying to buy a squad capable of it. Increasingly this is more likely to weaken them as they bring in a lower quality player who is not accustomed to the scrapping environment of the SPL. If other teams can continue to build on youth programmes then there might be a chance we can at least live with the OF in the SPL and cups. It might not be possible but I suspect it is about as realistic as we can expect.

[BobbyBiscuit]

So the noughties has become only the second decade since the war where we've not won something. I wouldn't say parity has been restored at all then.

 

you're maybe not meaning it, but there is an air of "just accept it" about your post. If that is the attitude of our supporters and our club, then we'd be as well giving it up now. save us all time, money, effort and emotion.

[baggy89]

The one potential advantage of the OF falling to the same level as the rest of us, that I can see, is that it may prompt a much needed overhaul of the Scottish game in general.

 

This may be fantasy time but surely at some point somewhere there has to be a lightbulb come on in a "powerbrokers" head that says "You know what? Chasing the riches in England is futile if we haven't honestly got the resources to create an exciting package".

 

There does seem to be a renewed emphasis on youth production in Scottish football hopefully that can be maintained but it will need the OF to stop being so fucking greedy. It is modern culture to want things NOW, whether that be reflected in average household debt, the internet or success on the football field. We are a small nation and need to stop fucking each other over in pursuit of this. While I didn't agree with Keith Wyness' plans for Scottish football, he did have a point and it is a point that I can see most Scottish clubs moving too. Interestingly in Ajja's post about us moving down rankings in European football he mentioned it was Belgium who were to replace us. Correct me if I'm wrong but do a lot of the top European Leagues have "feeder" teams in Belgium? Could this be the explanation for the resurgence of the game in this country?

 

Perhaps within my mythical review of Scottish football the Scottish Executive could look into the laws governing work permits and the like. Surely to have cherry picked youth talent sent from the cream of Europe playing alongside our own youth will improve them as players and increase their exposure to scouts from the big leagues.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Well Parity with the first 50 years of our first centenary.

 

 

Indeed, but things change and we certainly have a standing within the Scottish game that dictates that we should be winning things given the size of club etc. If we shouldn't be winning things, then by the same reasoning, no one outwith the OF should.

[dave_min]

Having had the joy of only really following the mighty Dons during the Noughties, I can in all honestly say it's been the most successful i've ever seen!

 

I'm hopeful for the next decade to be a much better one though, but for this to actually happen I really think alot has to be changed. In particular the set-up of the whole game from top to bottom. It's fair to say the game is in quite a slump both domestically and international too, I really can't see how it can get any worse, right now is the ideal time for them to rip up our whole game and start again. Going with the Belgium argument from earlier, their top league has 16 teams, why can't we? Two leagues of 16 then a proper pyramid system...I can dream!

 

Also, I think the new stadium has to be a must (maybe i've been brainwashed here, but...)

Pittodrie is a fucking dump! It's falling to pieces, it's only saving grace is that I can walk to it from my front door easily enough. I really do hope we get this new stadium, and do it properly, not some typical cut-price half arsed effort like we do with everything else.

 

I'd also like us to just copy Hibs, and if a few other teams manage to sort out the same sort of set-up then hopefully we'll have a much better league, but naturally with us to of that tree.

 

Thats all my thoughts on the matter (even though most of it is a little OT)

[Holyjoe]

Whisper when you say this but I seem to remember the likes of Darren Mackie, Stephen Payne, John Stewart, Scott Muirhead, Scott Morrison and  Ryan Esson. Being talked up by Aberdeen fans as players with potential. Wasn't it Scott Michie who broke all kinds of scoring records at youth and reserve level and big things were expected when he broke through (I may be thinking of someone else here). Kev McNaughton hardly helped service the debt with his big transfer and before that we had Phil McGuire, the Young brothers.

 

I really hope, like you say, this lot do achieve their potential but Aberdeen's recent history is littered with players not reaching their potential and/or Aberdeen not receiving the full "potential" transfer fee's for these players.

 

I remember being at Ibrox for a League Cup game back in 2000 or 2001 (Ronald de Boer's debut for the huns, I think) when we had about seven or eight youngsters in the side, and looked like a bloody useful team for much of the match. That was when folk like Esson, McNaughton, McGuire and even the Youngs (Derek scored a belter that day to put us 2-1 up) were all looking like turning into a fantastic group of players for us. Perhaps I was looking on with rose-tinted spectacles, and the old memory is certainly looking upon things a lot more fondly now, but I thought at the time we have a bloody great future.

 

[CtS]

 

Indeed, but things change and we certainly have a standing within the Scottish game that dictates that we should be winning things given the size of club etc. If we shouldn't be winning things, then by the same reasoning, no one outwith the OF should.

 

No one outwith the Old Firm really are winning trophies though are they, out of 30 domestic trophies in the last 10 years the OF have won 27 (I think), with only Hearts winning the Scottish cup (once) and Hibs and Livingston winning the league cup (once each). On all 3 occasions neither half of the OF featured in the final.

 

It's all very well looking at our own flaws and trying to find a glimmer of hope for the future, the most obvious and frustrating thing being the way we've missed out on cup success by frequently losing to lower league opposition, but the reality is our domestic football is now totally dominated by those scumbags and it's almost impossible to break that stranglehold. Even when getting to a final, any non OF club will probably find one last insurmountable obstacle (usually some poor refereeing decision) in their way.

 

The only crumb of comfort is we support our teams for the love of the club, not just the glory. Part of that love and support is dealing with the difficult reality that we may never see our club win silverware again, but despite that not "giving it up now. saving us all time, money, effort and emotion."

[maverick sheep]

The one potential advantage of the OF falling to the same level as the rest of us, that I can see, is that it may prompt a much needed overhaul of the Scottish game in general.

 

This may be fantasy time but surely at some point somewhere there has to be a lightbulb come on in a "powerbrokers" head that says "You know what? Chasing the riches in England is futile if we haven't honestly got the resources to create an exciting package".

 

There does seem to be a renewed emphasis on youth production in Scottish football hopefully that can be maintained but it will need the OF to stop being so fucking greedy. It is modern culture to want things NOW, whether that be reflected in average household debt, the internet or success on the football field. We are a small nation and need to stop fucking each other over in pursuit of this. While I didn't agree with Keith Wyness' plans for Scottish football, he did have a point and it is a point that I can see most Scottish clubs moving too. Interestingly in Ajja's post about us moving down rankings in European football he mentioned it was Belgium who were to replace us. Correct me if I'm wrong but do a lot of the top European Leagues have "feeder" teams in Belgium? Could this be the explanation for the resurgence of the game in this country?

 

Perhaps within my mythical review of Scottish football the Scottish Executive could look into the laws governing work permits and the like. Surely to have cherry picked youth talent sent from the cream of Europe playing alongside our own youth will improve them as players and increase their exposure to scouts from the big leagues.

 

They could look but immigration law is not devolved.

 

I agree with what you're saying but it would need to be outside th EU we got people from anyway since EU citizens can freely get work anywhere in the EU. The reason they don't come to Scotland is that there isn't a European league of as poor a standard as Scotland other than Ireland, Wales, San Marino, Andorra... All those places already have their youth cherry picked by England and/or produce such low quality players that we're left with the stars of tommorrow's Faroese team.

 

Getting a Dutch/Belgian style football system of talented young Africans, South Americans etc is yet another reason for Independence...shame so many people are already too indoctrinated with fear to make it happen....But anyway

 

Curse of the noughties?

 

No I think it's more too do with the mismanagement by Milne in the 90s precipitating the virtual non-management of the club in this decade.

[baggy89]

They could look but immigration law is not devolved.

 

I agree with what you're saying but it would need to be outside th EU we got people from anyway since EU citizens can freely get work anywhere in the EU. The reason they don't come to Scotland is that there isn't a European league of as poor a standard as Scotland other than Ireland, Wales, San Marino, Andorra... All those places already have their youth cherry picked by England and/or produce such low quality players that we're left with the stars of tommorrow's Faroese team.

 

Getting a Dutch/Belgian style football system of talented young Africans, South Americans etc is yet another reason for Independence...shame so many people are already too indoctrinated with fear to make it happen....But anyway

 

Curse of the noughties?

 

No I think it's more too do with the mismanagement by Milne in the 90s precipitating the virtual non-management of the club in this decade.

 

You have slightly misunderstood me, I think, by cherry picked youth talent from the cream of Europe what I meant was all the youth of the like of Man U, Arsenal, etc. As I understand it that it is the Belgians relaxed Work permit policy that allows them to bring the players from Africa and South America and get them playing in the EU along with many of their own EU players being sent there on loan.

 

Wasn't aware that the immigration law wasn't devolved but why are we, in the SPL, subject to the strictest rules (like the EPL) but lower leagues in England and Scotland are not?