Clearout Required

[Guest rocket debris]

What did he do that you think insulted AFC fans? (not saying he didn't at one point, just curious to hear what it is in particular you're thinking of)

And you accuse others of amnesia? I can not believe you have forgotten?

 

At the AGM in December 2008, our DoF was challenged on this specific point and admitted culpability. The e-mail from the chairman the following day also acknowledged this: -

 

rocket

 

Thanks for your email, I hear what you and others are saying, we clearly see

there are issues that the Club need to deal with in respect of certain

aspects of it's communications with our fans, this has been picked up and we

will be working on these areas over the coming weeks and months.

 

As Willie said at the meeting, there is a very strong desire for everyone to

be working together, towards the same common goals for our Club, it is

evident that certain aspects of our current approach is building barriers

rather than bridges, and we accept that the onus is on us to deal with this.

 

Stewart

 

[Guest rocket debris]

To be fair (apart from McGhee saying he wanted to be Celtic's manager as soon as he arrived as our manager) the only person in the last wee while that I can remember insulting Dons fans..........was you. 

Another amnesiac? Have you not been paying attention either the last decade?

[Stewart]

To be fair (apart from McGhee saying he wanted to be Celtic's manager as soon as he arrived as our manager) the only person in the last wee while that I can remember insulting Dons fans..........was you. 

 

He said he wouldn't mind managing Rangers in his Alba interview last night.

[Kowalski]

And you accuse others of amnesia? I can not believe you have forgotten?

 

At the AGM in December 2008, our DoF was challenged on this specific point and admitted culpability. The e-mail from the chairman the following day also acknowledged this: -

 

rocket

 

Thanks for your email, I hear what you and others are saying, we clearly see

there are issues that the Club need to deal with in respect of certain

aspects of it's communications with our fans, this has been picked up and we

will be working on these areas over the coming weeks and months.

 

As Willie said at the meeting, there is a very strong desire for everyone to

be working together, towards the same common goals for our Club, it is

evident that certain aspects of our current approach is building barriers

rather than bridges, and we accept that the onus is on us to deal with this.

 

Stewart

 

???

 

I'll have to ask again.

Seriously genuine question, who are we talking about?  (I thought it was Calderwood but we seem to have deviated).

[Guest rocket debris]

The other side of the coin is that JC gets some awful abuse from some very short sighted people with apparent amnesia.

for the benefit of kow. No deviation.

[BobbyBiscuit]

And you accuse others of amnesia? I can not believe you have forgotten?

 

At the AGM in December 2008, our DoF was challenged on this specific point and admitted culpability. The e-mail from the chairman the following day also acknowledged this: -

 

rocket

 

Thanks for your email, I hear what you and others are saying, we clearly see

there are issues that the Club need to deal with in respect of certain

aspects of it's communications with our fans, this has been picked up and we

will be working on these areas over the coming weeks and months.

 

As Willie said at the meeting, there is a very strong desire for everyone to

be working together, towards the same common goals for our Club, it is

evident that certain aspects of our current approach is building barriers

rather than bridges, and we accept that the onus is on us to deal with this.

 

Stewart

 

My amnesia doesn't mean that the amnesia of others doesn't exist.

 

If you care to refresh my memory before i forget what it is we're talking about...?

[Kowalski]

for the benefit of kow. No deviation.

 

And your evidence that he insulted the fans was an email from Stewart Milne talking about Willie Miller?

[Stewart]

Was it not the two cars in every garage, three eyes on every fish comment that annoyed some folk?

[Guest rocket debris]

I can't believe rocket and milne are on a first name basis.

You're right. I cheated and edited. He did respond using Wilfred, my first name, though.

[Guest rocket debris]

And your evidence that he insulted the fans was an email from Stewart Milne talking about Willie Miller?

You are determined to deny this aren't you? It is a fact that he insulted people of the North east. It is a fact that both Miller and Calderwood insulted Aberdeen fans. Miller's response when challenged - actually, when he went off on a tangent and was hauled back on topic by a rude psycho interrupting from the floor - was to admit it and offer a ridculous line in mitigation.

[Guest rocket debris]

You faked the letter?

 

tainted evidence of something.

Send me an email and I'll send you the whole thing. Quite funny looking back on it.

[Guest rocket debris]

My email address has aids.

copy and paste.

pm me it.

Sod it. The whole thing...

 

EDITED: I trust you managed to read it. The confidential for addressee only bit at the bottom made me shat it. Mods can advise.

[Kowalski]

You are determined to deny this aren't you? It is a fact that he insulted people of the North east. It is a fact that both Miller and Calderwood insulted Aberdeen fans. Miller's response when challenged - actually, when he went off on a tangent and was hauled back on topic by a rude psycho interrupting from the floor - was to admit it and offer a ridculous line in mitigation.

 

I'm not saying either of them insulted the fans, just curious that you haven't provided any proof.

Personally I'm more interested in what happens on the park.

[RDU_64]

I do love the mock outrage of football fans.

 

JC allegedly insults the North East and thats not okay, yet it is okay to insult him and give him dogs abuse!

[Reekie_Red]

I Dont like him, didnt want him but thus far he has received next to know backing and in my opinion we have a better team than we did last season.

 

I think we have made progress under Mcghee in my opinion it was a season too late and his task is much bigger than what it was when most of us first feared there was a problem.

 

Agree. I personally feel Calderwood & Nicholl's limitations were reached around this time in the 2007/08 season. They did a good job of keeping us in the top four each season, and did a wonderful job with the Euro ties against Dnipro, Copenhagen and Bayern. But I don't think they could've taken us any further. We should've looked for a new management team that could've taken us to the next level there and then, rather than renewing JC and JN's contracts. I believe the turn of 2007-2008 was Calderwood's real peak at the club.

[Reekie_Red]

I ain't a JMGer or a MMMGer. Indeed I thought we made huge improvements both on and off the field under Jimmy's guidance. But I still personally feel that, if we wanted to keep the momentum going and get above the "let's aim for 3rd and a cup-final" collective-motive each year, we should've moved for a new management team about two years ago. That's just my own gut feeling, as I know heaps of peeps who were happy with the team's offering last season - but I was not.

[dave_min]

I ain't a JMGer or a MMMGer. Indeed I thought we made huge improvements both on and off the field under Jimmy's guidance. But I still personally feel that, if we wanted to keep the momentum going and get above the "let's aim for 3rd and a cup-final" collective-motive each year, we should've moved for a new management team about two years ago. That's just my own gut feeling, as I know heaps of peeps who were happy with the team's offering last season - but I was not.

 

It was definately 2 years ago when we made the massive mistakes, why wasn't JC given the funds to keep together the team that had got us all the way to the last 32 of the UEFA Cup? Binning Clark & Hart between getting to the Bayern game and actually playing it. That was when money should have been made available to make that team better so we could have pushed on and consolidated 3rd place and pushed onto 2nd.

 

But nah, this is AFC we're talking about. Sell any player we might get some cash for, and replace them with anyone we could get on the cheap, then sack the management team for the team not being as good as it was before. Sounds like a winning formula to me.

 

If McGhee(or anyone) had been given the job at the same time JC was given his 3 year deal we would still be in the same hole we're in right now. We may have not signed Tommy Wright, but i've no doubt nstead we would have signed some other Dave, Dave or Dave who was equally mince.

[Slim]

Any time I've heard Calderwood speak on the radio he's always talked up the city and how he loves living here, how great he finds the people and doesn't have a bad word to say about anyone at the club.

 

I'd tend to take that as more of a representative viewpoint on his opinion on the people of Aberdeen rather than a misguided attempt at amateur psychology by trying to link the affluence of the city with the lack of 'win at all costs minkiness' that's more common in people from his neck of the woods.

 

Yeah on one hand you could interpret him as meaning Aberdonians don't have a winner mentality, but I don't think that's what he meant at all. I don't even think he himself knows what he meant, it was just an attempt to sound clever. That doesn't make him a bad person.

[Guest rocket debris]

I do love the mock outrage of football fans.

 

JC allegedly insults the North East and thats not okay, yet it is okay to insult him and give him dogs abuse!

Come out of your virtuality for a minute and remember the real world. Mock outrage? I'm not even genuinely outraged. I said that I was surprised he didn't get more vitriol. You with your "allegedly" and others don't even know what happened and don't know what I am talking about. The boy is, was and always has been a twat of the highest order. This is not even opinion. Of course he loved his time up here. Incompetents tend to like it when some sucker pays them wages. Who gives a fuck what he thinks?  It's history. History that completely bypassed certain Aberdeen fans, it appears.

[Kowalski]

It's history. History that completely bypassed certain Aberdeen fans, it appears.

 

That's a shame if they weren't there to witness some of the great European nights.

[Cowie]

It was definately 2 years ago when we made the massive mistakes, why wasn't JC given the funds to keep together the team that had got us all the way to the last 32 of the UEFA Cup? Binning Clark & Hart between getting to the Bayern game and actually playing it. That was when money should have been made available to make that team better so we could have pushed on and consolidated 3rd place and pushed onto 2nd.

 

Aye - this is it in a nutshell.

AFC's major problem since bosman has been holding onto players - We get what looks a decent team together (see 06-07 season) and as soon as we achieve anything, the star center back is sold & not replaced. This happens again in the following season when three important 1st team players are either sold or leave under freedom of contract, next thing we know, 2 seasons later, derek young is at right back. 

 

Personally i think that this would have happened irrespective of the managerial choices that were available to AFC at the time - the calibre of manager that we can attract to the club is not high enough to convince existing player to re-sign on lesser deal that they would get elsewhere, add to this the idiotic policy of 2yr contracts means that it is virtually impossible to keep a team together - which is what has happened.

 

Unless the club releases significant funds/wages to keep or replace players lost - it will never get out of this rut.

It comes down to money - which we do not have.

 

 

 

[RDU_64]

You with your "allegedly" and others don't even know what happened and don't know what I am talking about. The boy is, was and always has been a twat of the highest order. This is not even opinion. Of course he loved his time up here. Incompetents tend to like it when some sucker pays them wages. Who gives a fuck what he thinks?  It's history. History that completely bypassed certain Aberdeen fans, it appears.

 

Sorry rocket. I may have missed the story or link that you have provided me with so I can really see what happened. Would you care to re-post said story/link again please?

[Guest rocket debris]

Aye - this is it in a nutshell.

AFC's major problem since bosman has been holding onto players - We get what looks a decent team together (see 06-07 season) and as soon as we achieve anything, the star center back is sold & not replaced. This happens again in the following season when three important 1st team players are either sold or leave under freedom of contract, next thing we know, 2 seasons later, derek young is at right back. 

 

Personally i think that this would have happened irrespective of the managerial choices that were available to AFC at the time - the calibre of manager that we can attract to the club is not high enough to convince existing player to re-sign on lesser deal that they would get elsewhere, add to this the idiotic policy of 2yr contracts means that it is virtually impossible to keep a team together - which is what has happened.

 

Unless the club releases significant funds/wages to keep or replace players lost - it will never get out of this rut.

It comes down to money - which we do not have.

Spot on, with the proviso that we did have over £3.5m in the bank, still have over £2m and yet failed to invest 1% of it - £20k - to attract a much needed midfielder from Motherwell, effectively giving the new manager zero support. The problems are ALL to do with the board's lack of investment in the squad yet seeing fit to have paid more coaches and scouts than we needed and a part time DoF with a bad attitude, an invisible ability to add value and who made a terrible needless decision which cost this club a fortune.

 

The problems are obvious to anyone who cares to open their eyes, as some of you have and others refuse to. Some good debate on this thread for a change. Not bad for a predominantly weegie mafia.

[RDU_64]

Spot on, with the proviso that we did have over £3.5m in the bank, still have over £2m and yet failed to invest 1% of it - £20k - to attract a much needed midfielder from Motherwell, effectively giving the new manager zero support. The problems are ALL to do with the board's lack of investment in the squad yet seeing fit to have paid more coaches and scouts than we needed and a part time DoF with a bad attitude, an invisible ability to add value and who made a terrible needless decision which cost this club a fortune.

 

The problems are obvious to anyone who cares to open their eyes, as some of you have and others refuse to. Some good debate on this thread for a change. Not bad for a predominantly weegie mafia.

 

Granted there has been obvious lack of finance to the squad compared to previous seasons. However, this is because of a number of factors you have failed to add. The recession, the collapse of Setanta, the reduced TV deal that was accepted, fluctuation of attendances and the decision to pay off two 3 and a half year contracts and pay compensation for our current management team all being factors. The debt is hanging over this club like a noose and I doubt that we will see a 'big' transfer fee being spent at AFC for a long time. The lack of investment by the board a few seasons ago was ridiculous, yet as you have said yourself, that's history. In my opinion, given the current climate of not only football but society in general, it's no suprise that AFC are feeling the pinch just like any other football club and business.

 

Again I would like to see your evidence for the more coaches and scouts that we have needed at the club?

 

Generally, I feel that Willie Miller has done more things good for this club than he has done bad. People find something to berate AFC for, before it has been Milne, Keith Wyness, Calderwood, Foster, Mackie, Young, Duff, the split in the support, the debt, toasters and now it's Willie Miller, his £3,000,000 pay cheque that he takes out of the club, he does fuck all, useless business man so why should he be in charge of our club etc etc.

 

The JMG mob weren't concerned by how much it would cost to change the management team last season so why should you be concerned by it now? I was under the impression that the money we would spend on changing the management team would be recouped by the hugely increased attendances and season tickets holders rushing back to Pittodrie as silky attacking football was in order. We can all see that has happened. Not.

[Guest rocket debris]

Granted there has been obvious lack of finance to the squad compared to previous seasons. However, this is because of a number of factors you have failed to add. The recession, the collapse of Setanta, the reduced TV deal that was accepted, fluctuation of attendances and the decision to pay off two 3 and a half year contracts and pay compensation for our current management team all being factors. The debt is hanging over this club like a noose and I doubt that we will see a 'big' transfer fee being spent at AFC for a long time. The lack of investment by the board a few seasons ago was ridiculous, yet as you have said yourself, that's history. In my opinion, given the current climate of not only football but society in general, it's no suprise that AFC are feeling the pinch just like any other football club and business.

Totally agree. However, the noose-like debt is further EVIDENCE of the continuing mismanagement of AFC plc. The historical problems were indeed "ridiculous" as you say and we face bigger challenges in balancing the books in the current economic climate.

 

 

Again I would like to see your evidence for the more coaches and scouts that we have needed at the club?

The sacking of Leighton was proof enough of one head too many. Remember that JC had JN and SC where MM has only SL. That's two heads saved immediately, money that should be going to the squad. Assuming that we saved in the region of £150k from these two headcount rationalisations both as a result of our new manager's decisions, surely giving £20k back to him isn't unfair?

 

 

Generally, I feel that Willie Miller has done more things good for this club than he has done bad. People find something to berate AFC for, before it has been Milne, Keith Wyness, Calderwood, Foster, Mackie, Young, Duff, the split in the support, the debt, toasters and now it's Willie Miller, his £3,000,000 pay cheque that he takes out of the club, he does fuck all, useless business man so why should he be in charge of our club etc etc.

I would like to agree with that but have no evidence of this. Can you please enlighten? On the contrary, there was no need to grant a contract extension to a man and his entourage who weren't going anywhere and who were not in demand.

 

 

The JMG mob weren't concerned by how much it would cost to change the management team last season so why should you be concerned by it now? I was under the impression that the money we would spend on changing the management team would be recouped by the hugely increased attendances and season tickets holders rushing back to Pittodrie as silky attacking football was in order. We can all see that has happened. Not.

This supposed divisions within our ranks is counter-productive and clouds the debate. I never raised a comment about being concerned about it. I do not belong to JMG or any other group. As a number of others have said on here, the problem was historic as he should never have been given the extension. This was a mistake that the club made and it is indeed history, yet another poor decision that holds us back. All I want is a successful AFC. To skew the debate as you have, installing blame exclusively at the new manager's door, is fundamentally flawed as the vast majority of Aberdeen fans will appreciate, including the weegie ones on here.