Madbadteacher Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Didn't help the hunnery or the timmery in CL though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 AS they addressed representatives from all 30 Scottish Football League clubs inside the Hampden auditorium yesterday, Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan were seeking to win the hearts and minds of those who have railed against their contentious plan to solve the Rangers crisis. After five hours of talks, during which the SPL and SFA chief executives were invited to make presentations to the organisation they would like to absorb newco Rangers next season, there was a feeling that at least some clubs were prepared to head home and give it some consideration. But, no matter how hard they tried, there was one opinion the two Englishmen were never going to change. Raith Rovers chairman Turnbull Hutton has emerged as the most outspoken critic of the move to provide Rangers with a soft landing in the First Division and he isn’t about to alter his stance now. On the contrary, straight-talking Hutton also trained his guns on the SPL as a whole after the meeting, laying the blame for the current situation firmly at their door. In a saga which has constantly teetered on the brink of being funny if it wasn’t so serious, it seemed almost appropriate that Hutton chose Monty Python’s most famous sketch for inspiration in a withering attack on the league which broke away from the rest of Scottish football back in 1998. “In essence, the SPL is like a dead parrot,” said Hutton. “It’s financially unsustainable. So it’s hardly up to the First Division to sustain that. There could maybe be a recognition from the top that accepts the SPL is dead, so let’s wind it up. It hasn’t worked for the past 14 years, it has been a failure. It’s all gone belly-up. “Let’s start again and I’m sure the SFL would welcome applications from some of the teams who are currently in the SPL to join an organisation that is based on sporting integrity. “I feel the same as I did when I arrived here today. It’s been a long, tiring, boring day. “A lot of information was given, I don’t know how accurate it is. Various opinions were expressed. But my coming-out position is the same as it was going in. “I don’t know if they’ll get enough clubs to vote for [Rangers joining the First Division]. I don’t think they were necessarily trying to win people over today, they were trying to paint a picture. People could then take a position. “Some people might have been swayed, but our position is unchanged. This is a problem of the SPL’s making. But here we are, SFL clubs, spending a whole day where we seem to be the last resort to solve a problem that’s not of our own making. That’s why I objected. “In my view, people abdicated their responsibilities. They pushed the decision on to a group that had nothing whatsoever to do with it. Now the pressure is on the First Division clubs to find a way out of this. I just think that is wholly wrong. “I’m never an angry man, I’ll always look on the bright side and see the best in people. I’m well known for my tender, charitable side. “That said, I’d love a couple of resignations over this. But I’d love promotion and for Raith Rovers to win the European Cup as well. We’ll leave it at that. My view is that there are rules in place and that’s the view I’ve stuck to rigidly.” Hutton also claimed he has received considerable support for his views from Rangers supporters, despite his unequivocal stance against any preferential treatment being applied to the stricken club’s position. “My computer has been in meltdown with a significant number of e-mails from Rangers fans who have listened to what I’ve said,” he added. “They say their wish is to go into the Third Division, they want to accept the fact things have gone into meltdown. They say if they go into the Third Division and work their way up, they can hold their heads high and face the rest of Scottish football.” Asked about the apology issued by Rangers newco chairman Malcolm Murray on behalf of the club yesterday, Hutton alluded to the threats he previously said Raith had received after their director Eric Drysdale sat on the Judicial Panel which imposed a 12-month signing embargo on the Ibrox club. “It’s long overdue from our point of view,” said Hutton. “If they also sent two buckets of water and a fireman to Kirkcaldy, it would be much appreciated.” Morton chairman Douglas Rae was more conciliatory in tone as he emerged from the meeting but was also unmoved from his previously-stated position of opposing newco Rangers being admitted to the First Division. “The meeting went very well, it was very constructive,” said Rae. “Stewart Regan had an input and it was constructive. We got to know a lot of things that we didn’t know beforehand. But there is no finality about it because there is the SPL meeting tomorrow before it can move on. So there was nothing of any consequence. “It didn’t change my view at all. No vote is planned so far. We can’t really vote until we find out what happens at the SPL meeting. We might be having another meeting next week and that will clarify things. I think there will be an end to it next week “The SPL might still keep Rangers as members, we don’t know. I didn’t feel there was any pressure being put on the clubs today, none at all. It was just explanations and questions.” Livingston chairman Gordon McDougall, whose own club were demoted to the bottom tier of the SFL after their insolvency event three years ago, expressed his dismay over any prospect of Rangers not having to follow the same path. “I’ve nothing against Rangers and if it was Celtic, Hibs or Hearts, it would make no difference,” said McDougall. “But people almost seem to have forgot what Livingston went through. The Rangers issue has been piggy-backed on to reconstruction and that’s not right. They are two entirely separate issues. “Allowing Rangers into the First Division would open a can of worms because what happens if any other SPL club which got into similar financial difficulty wanted to do the same? I’d like to see the SPL and SFL amalgamate, but not in the way that is being proposed because of this particular situation.” What a breath of fresh air the man is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have Sky Sports. I never watch a Scottish game on it unless it's Aberdeen. Same goes for my old man. I can't see the impact on Sky with The Rangers (cunts) not being there being as bad as initially feared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloo_toon_red Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What a breath of fresh air the man is. Man's a legend in the making. Where's that story taken from Kow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Man's a legend in the making. Where's that story taken from Kow? The Scotsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Man's a legend in the making. Where's that story taken from Kow? Today's Scotsman. He's given the SFA a bit of a headache, which is interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Bbc reporting there will be no vote today. So after 2 weeks of thinking about it and enough clubs making their mind up to vote No they now want to postpone it. Couldn't make it up. SPL starts 4 weeks on Saturday and I have a feeling now Rangers wol be in it, just as Dongcaster has always wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Surely he must realise that if the huns are in the SPL next season, there is a strong possibility they won't be able to fulfil their fixtures due to a number of reasons? And if that's the case, surely that would cost the game more than the figures he's currently making up to suit his agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Fixed it for ya No, it was definitely right the first time. What makes you think they care that fans of the diddy clubs won't turn up? They have had the responses of fans in front of them for months now... they know the feeling out there but still want to push this through. That in itself shows you how bothered they are with the threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 People have gone out and bought season tickets in good faith because it was assumed that there were now enough no votes to reject newco. It now wouldn't surprise me if a heavily sanctioned newco is playing in the SPL next season. Will be the end of my association with everything to do with Scottish Fitba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Just out of interest, how long after buying a season ticket do they refuse to give a refund if returned? Got a feeling the SPL are conspiring to con as much as they can out of anyone. If the people running our game get kicked out, all they'd be suited for as a line of work would be scamming OAPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Just out of interest, how long after buying a season ticket do they refuse to give a refund if returned? Got a feeling the SPL are conspiring to con as much as they can out of anyone. If the people running our game get kicked out, all they'd be suited for as a line of work would be scamming OAPs. I would guess at 14 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 People were too hasty to buy them in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I read somewhere it is 28 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Is a breakaway league a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgowdon Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Is a breakaway league a possibility? The RR guy seemed to issue an open invite to other clubs to splinter and join the SFL (I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The RR guy seemed to issue an open invite to other clubs to splinter and join the SFL (I think). Well in my email to afc, see other thread, I suggested if the rest of the spl stitch this whole thing up perhaps the SFL should walk and afc join them. Not sure about breakaway league but consigning the SPL to history/a rump west coast league would be pleasing. Infact what about an East Coast League. That would awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 They may change it and hold people to terms and conditions if there is a mass-return but in the past AFC have given refunds on season tickets as long as it was before the start of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Statement from Clyde: Club Statement: SFL Meeting Wed, 4th Jul 2012 12:34pm The club sent two directors to attend the meeting of the SFL clubs yesterday and they have reported back to the Board. The meeting and conversations covered the best part of 5 hours but there were only a few overarching themes. The clear message portrayed is that Scottish Football is in a very dark place indeed and there is simply no good solution to what is now a structural problem that has gone beyond a one dimensional issue of where Rangers should play next season. No matter what happens now there is going to be enormous fallout across the Scottish game. Whether some good can be extracted from the impending mess will depend entirely on the SPL clubs, guided by the currently absent leadership of the SFA. Neil Doncaster wanted only one thing from the meeting, to get a steer from the SFL clubs whether they would allow Rangers into SFL1. He talked the clubs through a detailed explanation of where the SPL clubs would lose £16m next season if Rangers were not entered to the top division of the SFL. This was delivered as a matter of fact, it was a "reality". It seems that most, if not all, major sponsors of the SPL have exit clauses if either of the 'Old Firm' are not within the SPL. The total figure was not new, but the detail behind the number and its impact on individual clubs in the SPL was set out clearly. There were challenges made regarding the flip side of saving the central income from sponsors and media, the obvious impact of loss of supporters to the game who have strongly voiced their intent. Supporter reaction has not been factored in, again there are realities, the SPL clubs are waiting on their Sky cheques in August and clearly that was more important. Nowhere in the presentation was account taken on the impact to the finances of clubs, and more importantly the relevance of the game, should supporters stay at home. The consequential impact on the SFL from the presentation was that the SFL would lose its entitlement to circa £2m per annum from the Settlement Agreement put together to compensate the SFL for the SPL breakaway, this was made very clear by Neil Doncaster. He told the clubs that if the SPL didn't have the money then they could not pay the SFL. The reality however, which was clear from the detailed figures, is that the SPL, whilst losing an enormous amount of funding, would have the cash to make payment; it is just that the SPL would not meet the legal obligation to the SFL as the cash would be used to finance the SPL teams. The undeniable statement made on behalf of the SPL is commercially understandable. The SPL would not allow £16m to flow out of their coffers, the impact would be too catastrophic for the SPL clubs to contemplate and as such the only options are that Rangers enter SFL1 or, as a less attractive backstop, a breakaway SPL2 will be formed. There is no prospect, from an SPL point of view, that SFL3 can be allowed to happen. Neil Doncaster was delivering a very unpalatable proposition and he did it clearly and effectively, hence the representatives of Clyde Football Club understood that the only thing that mattered was the impact on SPL clubs from the loss of money from media and sponsors. It was to the credit of every SFL club, and probably to the surprise of Neil Doncaster, that nobody asked him to improve on the £1m offer. The SFL clubs were given a steer for themselves by Neil Doncaster, if the SFL could not tell him how they might vote, then he would expect the SPL clubs not to vote at their meeting either. There were a few new things learned in the meeting, not least that the rules of the SFL would allow any club accepted into the SFL, by a simple majority, to be placed in any division. The rules do not state, nor imply, that they must join at the bottom tier, only custom and practice around good governance and integrity has seen teams join in the bottom tier. In addition, the attendees at the meeting were left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever by Stewart Regan that if the SPL clubs voted to allow a Newco into the SPL then it would be blocked by the SFA refusing to transfer the SFA membership. It was however caveated well enough to make it less than an absolute statement. The meeting was full of implied actions and outcomes, the use of clever language when delivering the speeches allows anyone to defend with ‘that is not what I said'. However, nobody will have left the meeting with anything other than the very clear messages being put across. Denials of the substance of the message being delivered do not assist anyone in this absolutely dreadful situation. There will be no winners. Any level of integrity for the sport will be lost by one outcome and financial collapse, we are told, will fall upon the SPL with the other. Sadly, the SFA and SPL have decided that whilst they say they are looking for a collaborative solution, they have very clearly made sure that by their own inaction that the blame will sit with the SFL - no matter what the outcome. The Board of the SFL are being put under intolerable pressure by the other bodies looking to avoid the implications of properly applying their own governance procedures. In summary, the SFA implication is that there will be no entry to the SPL. The SPL implication is that it therefore has to be SFL1 with a bit of restructure, or an SPL2 with the rest of the SFL cut adrift. There were no other options. Whilst Stewart Regan said that the SFA did not favour an SPL2, there was no equivalent abhorrence of that proposal as was attached to the proposal for a Newco in the SPL, leaving the implication that the door remains wide open for the SPL to secure their £16m with or without the SFL. The Board of the club will consider the feedback from its representatives and also the outcomes of the next few days and will keep its supporters fully appraised, but in the meantime see no reason to amend any previous comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubo72 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It really makes me just want to say 'Fuck the SPL'. Would rather support AFC in Div 1 of the SFL than have to put up with all this financial mismanagement and bullying shite. How about this: the other 10 teams of the SPL start next season in SFL1 and the bigot brothers can have the SPL and their Sky deal to themselves for all eternity..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Wow, amazing statement from Clyde which should be sending shock waves through the hierarchy of Scottish football. UEFA/FIFA need to be paying attention to this horrendous situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It really makes me just want to say 'Fuck the SPL'. Would rather support AFC in Div 1 of the SFL than have to put up with all this financial mismanagement and bullying shite. How about this: the other 10 teams of the SPL start next season in SFL1 and the bigot brothers can have the SPL and their Sky deal to themselves for all eternity..? Absolutely. I would not hesitate to back the club fully if they made this decision. The SPL needs destroyed, not expanded to SPL2, not merged with SFL, wiped from the face of this earth. That statement from Clyde is excellent but shows the depths to which Regan and Doncaster were willing to stoop and the complete lack of consideration of the fans and their views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I still don't get why Doncaster wants the SPL clubs not to vote if they don't know which way the SFL clubs will vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownyBrown Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 He wants the SFL to do the dirty work for him. SFL vote for SFL1 then the fans blame the SFL. If the SFL reject the proposals and they enter in SFL3 then he can blame them for 'financial armageddeon'. Win/Win if you are a cockwomble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redordead Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 From this I have drawn the conclusion that the SPL are watching their own asses and don't give a flying feck about the game in general or the fans. I agree with resigning, shafting them and we'll get fans back with competitive leagues and BBC coverage letting ALL Scottish kids watch their teams play and build fan bases again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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