Major Restructuring in the Pipeline for SPL

[maverick sheep]

Just home from the least productive day in an office in history.

 

BUT before I crack open the red and put on my dons top to get pished and sing, what's still bugging me is the inevitability that Cockwomble et al are going to try and force through an spl 2 deal. If that doesn't happen then literally everything has blown up in cockwomble's face. why was green not allowed to withdraw the application?

 

Perhaps this vote - simply confirming the inevitable - is hoped to buy us off. this is a moment to celebrate as a victory for common sense, but as delighted as I am that the spl clubs did the right thing, their job probably isn't entirely done yet.

 

If the sfl clubs have the balls to do the same thing, then it'd be disgraceful for spl clubs to agree to creating spl 2, casting certain clubs adrift.

 

What has to happen next is hopefully sfl clubs voting down the div 1 option, inviting the newco to bid for a place in div 3, then spl clubs telling the spl to get to fuck altogether, getting cockwomble to fuck immediately, and bringing the sfl clubs to the table to discuss the restructuring of the game that makes sense for everybody, without the discussions being sidetracked by these particular corporate agendas and lies (over and above the agendas that each club will inevitably have to seek personal preference anyway).

 

What this has all shown is that the SFA are open to the ideas that the fans have called for, but this summer is certainly not the time to rush anything through.

 

But that's for worrying about tomorrow. Tonight is for mostly pissing myself with glee. AFC have stood with the fans and also signed a cracking player. Fucking yes!

[Nellie The Don]

Comparing Alex Thomson's and Graham Spiers' opinions on Stewart Regan's Scotsman interview in which he claims that scottish football is dead if Sevco/Rangers aren't allowed into SFL1 speaks volumes about the need for objective journalism, removed from the footballing establishment.

 

One claims the comments, if true, "amount to professional suicide", the other opines "Stewart Regan captures exactly the intractable Rangers dilemma".

 

Can you guess which of these viewpoints comes from a serious and respected investigative correspondant and which from a man who has self-confessed form for being too close to the powers that be to make objective assessments?

[Kowalski]

Comparing Alex Thomson's and Graham Spiers' opinions on Stewart Regan's Scotsman interview in which he claims that scottish football is dead if Sevco/Rangers aren't allowed into SFL1 speaks volumes about the need for objective journalism, removed from the footballing establishment.

 

One claims the comments, if true, "amount to professional suicide", the other opines "Stewart Regan captures exactly the intractable Rangers dilemma".

 

Can you guess which of these viewpoints comes from a serious and respected investigative correspondant and which from a man who has self-confessed form for being too close to the powers that be to make objective assessments?

 

I wasn't sure if Spiers was fishing with that comment.  There's been loads of rumours than Tomo gets some/all of his stories from Spiers.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Regan and Farter at the helm of Scottish football. Theyhave helped get us here and are, at best, incompetent.

 

[Kowalski]

On Twitter just now: SFL board proposals to include a 14 team top tier for season 13/14.

[Madbadteacher]

Bollocks.

 

They want a 2 team league and that's it. Tey dinna give a fuck about any "other" no-cheating, non-sectarian-bigot teams.

 

CUNTS

[Mentorred]

If Sevco get into Div 1 then all the teams who do not agree should just not show up for Sevco games (players and fans).

[Tyrant]

If Sevco get into Div 1 then all the teams who do not agree should just not show up for Sevco games (players and fans).

 

 

I certainly hope the fans don't take it lying down.

[Andrew]

We should picket outside pittodrie when they come here...

 

 

[glasgowdon]

We should picket outside pittodrie when they come here...

 

 

 

[Kowalski]

Joint statement on reconstruction

Wednesday, 11 July 2012

 

 

Joint statement issued on behalf of the Scottish FA, Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League.

 

 

The Scottish FA, the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League have, for the past two years, been involved in a series of discussions at Board level with the objective of securing radical and co-ordinated reconstruction of the game in this country.

 

Today, we are asking clubs to consider a package of reforms which have the potential to rejuvenate Scottish football at senior level and safeguard its future at a time when uncertainty and fear prevail.

 

The proposals are based on five principles previously outlined by the Scottish FA as key to streamlining governance, ensuring greater financial distribution and above all, providing better entertainment, enhanced competition and value for money for supporters.

 

Upon agreement by the respective Boards, the proposals will placed before the SPL and SFL clubs for approval, to be activated immediately and phased in over a two-year period.

 

A working party will be formed, including three representatives from both the SPL and SFL, to devise a new structure for the senior professional game in Scotland. This group will have an independent Chairman appointed by the Scottish FA. They will be tasked with delivering by 30th November, 2012, a recommendation for structural change effective 2013/14. This will incorporate primarily:-

 

a) The introduction of an enlarged top tier for Scottish Senior Professional Football.

 

b) A new detailed model for senior professional football in Scotland including number of divisions; number of clubs per division; number of matches per season per division; number of promotion and relegation places per division and the introduction and operation of play-offs.

 

c) An all-through distribution model providing certainty for all clubs as to the percentage of distributable income which will be received. As a minimum, clubs in the current third and fourth divisions will receive the settlement agreement proportion guaranteed as per the current arrangement. In addition, the value and number of parachute payments to relegated clubs will be considered.

 

d) The introduction of a pyramid for Scottish football to provide a route for licensed clubs to enter the new structure effective 2014/2015

 

In the event that a final decision is not reached by 30th November, 2012, the Scottish FA will seek to implement a new structure in time for the 2013/2014 season. The members of the working party, including Chairman, will be announced in the near future and will ensure consultation with all stakeholders prior to final recommendations being made.

[glasgow sheep]

 

 

Well I can't disagree with a word of that.

 

But why after discussing it for "the past two years" they have felt the need to rush it out and alienate the entirety of Scottish Football I don't know (well I do but....).

 

This also has zero impact on the vote and should happen where ever Seveco end up (or don't end up)

[mizer]

David Longmuir made it clear that there is no chance of reverting to a top league of 16 or 18 teams.

 

In a survey conducted at the turn of the year, 88 per cent of fans canvassed stated they were against a ten-team set-up, with more than three-quarters stating a preference for an SPL of either 16 or 18 clubs.

 

But the league officials said that would mean a decrease in the number of fixtures and a decline in interest from TV companies, amounting to an estimated 20 million shortfall in the purse currently split between the SPL clubs and the SFL.

 

Doncaster and Longmuir also said that it would increase the number of meaningless games, which could cause significant drops in home attendances similar to those experienced by both Hibs and Aberdeen this season in post-split games after it became clear that neither team had anything to play for.

 

But fans were unconvinced, claiming that a rejuvenated product would entice more fans back through turnstiles and stating it was about time that the fans who turn up at games were afforded as much consideration as the armchair punters.

 

Doncaster, who favours a ten-team top flight, insisted that the forum had been a valuable opportunity to get the realities of the situation across to fans.

 

"I think the most helpful thing from my point of view was being able to explain that the choice we have is not between a ten and a 16, because football cannot afford at this point to go to a system of once home, once away," the SPL chief said.

 

"So we have to look at alternative models that mean playing twice home, twice away because fans cannot afford to pay more for their football but we need to, wherever we can, bring more money into football."If we go to a 16-team league, which would appear to be the fans' more favoured model, then we would have to find 20m from somewhere else to keep fans on the financial even keel that they are on at the moment and I do not know where that would come from."

 

He says that, unless money can be freed up by reducing the size of the top league, even the prospect of play-offs between the top two tiers remains a no go.

 

"If we simply open up more promotion and relegation within the existing 12 then you are asking clubs to vote for an increased chance of being relegated but with no more money in the division below.

 

"We see the financial pain that Inverness suffered the year before last, Falkirk last year and this year we can see what Hamilton will go through and we have to do something to address the distributions to the First Division and that's one of the fundamental reasons that ten works, because it immediately puts another 3m into that second tier of football."

 

Despite Doncaster's financial concerns, Dave Boyle, the chief executive of Supporters Direct UK, pointed out that the issue was more one of distribution. "I'd be surprised if there was a time when there was more money in Scottish football pound for pound than there is now," Boyle said. "The problem is not so much the income but the distribution."

 

With this week's event illustrating the rift between the SPL clubs, with some in favour of ten and others pitching for 14, there is a fear that the status quo will prevail, weakening the SPL's position ahead of TV contract talks in November.

 

One of the fans at yesterday's summit, John Keith of the Dundee FC Supporters' Society, challenged Doncaster to listen to what the paying punter wants. He said: "I'm utterly dismayed to hear that Mr Doncaster is working on the premise of four leagues of ten. That's completely not what the fans want. All the talk at the end of the last Premier League season was how Rangers and Celtic had played each other seven times. I've yet to meet fans who enjoy playing the same team time and time again."

 

Supporters Direct had hoped that they would have a voice on reconcstruction but, with their preferences already cast aside, it seems their collective voice is one the authorities still don't want to listen to.

[maverick sheep]

Well I can't disagree with a word of that.

 

But why after discussing it for "the past two years" they have felt the need to rush it out and alienate the entirety of Scottish Football I don't know (well I do but....).

 

This also has zero impact on the vote and should happen where ever Seveco end up (or don't end up)

 

A working party will be formed, including three representatives from both the SPL and SFL

 

Power for SFL bods if the vote gets approval implies a yes vote is being incentivised based on yet more corporate greed.

 

Also interesting that for the next couple of years there will essentially be 4 governing bodies for Scottish football - SFA, SPL, SFL, and SPL-SFL-working-group-hybrid.

 

Time for me to cash my chips in I think. Looks like absolutely zero possibility of the newco not being immediately given a double promotion so I can't imagine I'll be back at a game again. Sad, but I couldn't get any enjoyment out of watching this charade any longer.

[bloo_toon_red]

This also has zero impact on the vote and should happen where ever Seveco end up (or don't end up)

Precisely.  However, this bit:

In the event that a final decision is not reached by 30th November, 2012, the Scottish FA will seek to implement a new structure in time for the 2013/2014 season.

...ties in perfectly well with what I was told by a very reliable source on Friday, who told me that while Sky are putting out their statements that they are "not intending to walk away from the SPL", they have actually told the SPL that they can tolerate one season without Rangers, but a second season will see them pull the plug.  There has been alot of hearsay about this and it's not exactly earth-shattering stuff, but they are keeping it all behind closed doors rather than being open and honest with the paying public.

[scunnered999]

Sky are a bunch of cunts... always have been, always will be.

[baggy89]

Precisely.  However, this bit:...ties in perfectly well with what I was told by a very reliable source on Friday, who told me that while Sky are putting out their statements that they are "not intending to walk away from the SPL", they have actually told the SPL that they can tolerate one season without Rangers, but a second season will see them pull the plug.  There has been alot of hearsay about this and it's not exactly earth-shattering stuff, but they are keeping it all behind closed doors rather than being open and honest with the paying public.

 

If true I wonder, especially with the advent of BTSport and Al Jazeera trying for EPL rights, how many Scottish football fans will walk away from SKY. I'd imagine more than they will lose from no Huns in the SPL.

[tom_widdows]

at the risk of stating the obvious this smacks of them wanting to cover their asses should Ibrox united boys club fail to win the league next season.

 

One team goes down from the SPL and 3 teams come up from the 1st.

 

Or should it appear that stadium bar pub fucks will only finish 4th or 5th then suddenly 3 teams go down from the spl and 5 come up from the 1st

and so on

and so on

 

Of course there is the added complication of 1st, 2nd and 3rd place going to Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton & Morton.

What happens then? 3 teams ground-sharing in the premier or would they just promote the teams in 4th, 5th & 6th even if they were miles behind?

 

Should I somehow win a silly euromillions jackpot I might consider throwing a large chunk of it at those 3 teams to make sure they took the top 3 spots

 

 

[glasgow sheep]

I've seen elsewhere suggestions that any league expansion won't happen till 2014/15.

Even the document published talks about further meetings and proposals ready for Nov.  Maverick, I fear you are being overly cynical.  If anything these proposals surely make it less likely Seveco will be in Div1 as the committee can quite easily back track on all this once they have achieved their aim of getting Seveco into the 2nd tier and refuse to give the SFL the changes (equality) they want.

 

The SFL should really tell the SPL to go fuck themselves, they haven't invited anyone to fill the vacant SPL slot and the SFL season starts soon, so they should vote no to allowing Seveco into the SFL and stick with the 30 teams they have and let the SPL decide whether to play with 11 teams or allow Seveco in at the last minute.  Then come back in the Autumn and have a proper grown up chat about league reconstruction rather than partake in playground games with cunts with no interest in what is good for the wider game.

[glasgow sheep]

Haven't read through there whole site but looks interesting.  Supporters have been very successful in getting their views listened to over the last few weeks but the up coming restructuring of the game is every bit as important and it's vital we fans have a significant in put.  Whether these guys are the ones to do it I don't know but I'll be paying close attention.

League reconstruction is never going to please all fans so it's important that there is a full and frank consultation about any restructuring to ensure the aims of such a change are met.

Anyway have a look

http://fansfirstscotland.com/

[glasgow sheep]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=10205&newsCategoryID=1

 

Fans' Charter: have your say

Tuesday, 17 July 2012

 

How can a match day experience improve?

 

 

Have your say through this online survey – which is independent of the Scottish FA, SPL and SFL -  and contribute to creating a Fans’ Charter which will help make your football entertainment even more enjoyable.

 

 

James Proctor, who has worked with fans’ organisations for ten years, is the project manager for the Fans’ Charter.

 

 

He has, in the last three months, been speaking with individual supporters and has contacted supporter groups to find out their views on going to watch football.

 

 

“This led to ten meetings across Scotland where I listened to the good and bad points of going to the game from supporters of 18 different clubs,” James explained.

 

 

The discussions produced five areas which a charter should seek to address.

 

 

1. Participation – atmosphere, singing and chanting are all created by fans. A charter should recognise that fans are an important part of the match.

 

 

2. Fan Relations – the relationships between clubs and fans. Good communications between the two should be recognised as contributing to a good match day experience.

 

 

3. Fan Behaviour – Abuse and equality issues such as racism, bigotry and offensive comments should be addressed in the charter with a view to creating a more positive and inclusive environment.

 

 

4. Safety Authorities – Stewarding and policing are areas which contribute to a good or bad experience of the game and also have implications for safety. These rights and responsibilities should be balanced in the charter.

 

 

5. Facilities – Seating and standing choice were the main issues here, specifically how they affect the enjoyment and safety of supporters at the game.

 

 

“The objective of a Fans’ Charter is to take a step towards addressing some of the reasons why fans don’t come back or why they find attending matches far from a hassle-free experience,” James added.

 

 

“This survey offers fans their say on what issues will be included in the charter.

 

 

“It’s not simply about the outcome. Listening to fans opinions is an important part of this journey into understanding what fans think, why they feel the way they do and what they want in the future.

 

 

“I would ask all fans to fill in this survey to help improve the match day experience.”

 

Survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7J8L6XG

[bloo_toon_red]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=10205&newsCategoryID=1

 

Survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7J8L6XG

Those matters are all fine and well once you get people in to the ground but getting the "lost thousands" there in the first place is another matter entirely.

 

Aberdeen FC will have a lost generation of fans, a conservative estimate of 3000 fans, the majority of them kids who would otherwise have been brought up as Dons fans who are either disinterested through their own choice or because their parents, uncles, whoever have become disinterested.

 

In Aberdeen, literally a 15-minute walk from Pittodrie, you have fantastic leisure facilities, swimming pool, ice rink, side shows, cinema, bowling etc all of which is cheaper than 90 minutes at Pittodrie, and can successfully nail the entertainment on offer there in to the ground the majority of the time.  What I find quite surprising is that none of our visionary (sic) board members have adopted the mantra "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".  It wouldn't be beyond the realms of fantasy to come up with offers along the lines of

 

a half-day pass at Codona's and a ticket for the game for adult & child - £50 or thereby

 

Lunch for Father & son at Frankie & Benny's and a ticket for the game - £40

 

View any film at Cineworld & get a ticket for the game for 1 adult 1 child £30

 

etc, etc

 

How about setting up a 5-a-side pitch inside the RDS concourse with organised ten-minute games for kids to play in, refereed by an injured or suspended player who'll sign autographs for them?  Or at the very least a "beat the goalie", with small prizes on offer.  If you take a 6-11 year old boy to the fitba and tell him he's going to get a kick about in Pittodrie into the bargain, you're laughing.

 

I have a 6yr old nephew who likes football but hasn't been to Pittodrie yet (God forbid what state football is in when my 18 month old daughter is old enough to want to go).  If I took him now, especially with how poor the football actually is, he'd be bored stiff.  If some other entertainment were to be added to the equation then that changes things.  The moral is get the kids excited, the rest will follow.

 

[glasgowdon]

Those matters are all fine and well once you get people in to the ground but getting the "lost thousands" there in the first place is another matter entirely.

 

Aberdeen FC will have a lost generation of fans, a conservative estimate of 3000 fans, the majority of them kids who would otherwise have been brought up as Dons fans who are either disinterested through their own choice or because their parents, uncles, whoever have become disinterested.

 

In Aberdeen, literally a 15-minute walk from Pittodrie, you have fantastic leisure facilities, swimming pool, ice rink, side shows, cinema, bowling etc all of which is cheaper than 90 minutes at Pittodrie, and can successfully nail the entertainment on offer there in to the ground the majority of the time.  What I find quite surprising is that none of our visionary (sic) board members have adopted the mantra "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".  It wouldn't be beyond the realms of fantasy to come up with offers along the lines of

 

a half-day pass at Codona's and a ticket for the game for adult & child - £50 or thereby

 

Lunch for Father & son at Frankie & Benny's and a ticket for the game - £40

 

View any film at Cineworld & get a ticket for the game for 1 adult 1 child £30

 

etc, etc

 

How about setting up a 5-a-side pitch inside the RDS concourse with organised ten-minute games for kids to play in, refereed by an injured or suspended player who'll sign autographs for them?  Or at the very least a "beat the goalie", with small prizes on offer.  If you take a 6-11 year old boy to the fitba and tell him he's going to get a kick about in Pittodrie into the bargain, you're laughing.

 

I have a 6yr old nephew who likes football but hasn't been to Pittodrie yet (God forbid what state football is in when my 18 month old daughter is old enough to want to go).  If I took him now, especially with how poor the football actually is, he'd be bored stiff.  If some other entertainment were to be added to the equation then that changes things.  The moral is get the kids excited, the rest will follow.

 

Yep.

 

I went to a Hertha Berlin game a couple of years ago and Voronin was suspended and he was just cutting about the concourse outside the ground chilling with fans, signing autographs and doing stuff pretty much similar to what you said.

 

Agree with the rest as well but just thought I'd highlight that point.

 

Over here, you get free travel to and from the stadium with a match ticket too.

[glasgow sheep]

Yep.

 

I went to a Hertha Berlin game a couple of years ago and Voronin was suspended and he was just cutting about the concourse outside the ground chilling with fans, signing autographs and doing stuff pretty much similar to what you said.

 

Agree with the rest as well but just thought I'd highlight that point.

 

Over here, you get free travel to and from the stadium with a match ticket too.

 

To be fair the players cut about the fans quite often if injured

[dave_min]

Over here, you get free travel to and from the stadium with a match ticket too.

 

All public transport is free in the fatherland.