Aberdeen FC Statement 10/11/10

[Harcus]

if only his tactics worked to such a degree on the pitch.

 

I really can't believe that people are changing their mind due to an interview. We can all get passionate about the Dons, it doesn't mean we can successfully manage them.  And the performance on Tuesday? ok, it wasn't a disasterous performance but if that's what we've got to look forward to then we'll continue to be in trouble.

 

Exactly. One decent, passionate interview has to be offset against the nonsense he has largely spoken up to this point. And a performance against Inverness (!) at home in which we showed a big more dig but ultimately lost should never be justification for keeping your job.

[manc_don]

What the hell these clowns that are running our club are thinking is beyond me. It's just words! He's tried to do his talking on/the side of the pitch and failed. If we are bottom of the league, the board have to realise we are very much in a relegation battle.

[stoney]

We have been bottom of the league under every manager since the early 90s There has only been one consistant factor during that time.

[stoney]

I dont know - i wasnt born till 83 Dont remember us being bottom in the 80's 

[stoney]

In my first week in exsistance they won the Cup winners cup and the Scottish Cup, my birth must have spurred them on 

[Kowalski]

We have been bottom of the league under every manager since the early 90s There has only been one consistant factor during that time.

 

You?

[Ajja]

I'm going to try really hard here to not get labelled as an apologist for McGhee or to be seen as supporting his managerial regime. I have been hugely unimpressed with the way that McGhee has managed the team since his appointment and I am not sure that anything will change. He appears to a be a combatitive character who struggles to get the best out of our footballing staff for whatever reason but I am not convinced that he is a bad manager per se. Although he has been for us, no argument, and in an ideal world we should get rid and build again with a better quality option.

 

As always there is a bigger picture to consider in this that may mean that the simple, straightforward result of sacking him and his team and starting again (again) may not be the smartest option. I think in our anger and embarrassment we need to at least consider that.

 

I agree it is unfair to compare JC and McGhee and you cannot argue their records are miles apart at Aberdeen. It is also unfair to compare them because the climate in which they are operating is also miles apart. Crowds were falling in the last seasons under JC and McGhee has not been able to arrest that fall for sure. We also have to appreciate there is the most savage economic recession on in all of our lifetimes and every club, indeed every business, is seeing the same problem. Its not a black and white issue, although I concede its a pretty dire one. The collapse of TV revenue has also severely impaired the player budget in a way that JC never had to contend with, not even close. McGhee simply has not been able to draw on anything like the same resource as JC did in his early years. Results and performances were sliding very fast when JC was pushed out as quality players were leaving and he was not able to replace them. JC has done nothing since leaving Pittodrie to suggest he is a manager in great demand.

 

I actually think McGhee has brought in some decent players and with the obvious glaring error in the back line we have a side well capable of beating anyone in the league and winning more than we lose. He has, without doubt, been hammered with key injuries but for whatever reason is finding it difficult to motivate the squad as a whole. If we pay him and his team off then I fear that we will have a smaller, poorer squad next term and that is frankly a terrifying prospect under any manager. Add that to the fact that we are not a club who can go after managers as we please, even guys like Butcher, McInnes or Adams would think twice about taking the job and we would not have the money to prize them away. It's possible to pull out examples where an unknown manager has done exceptional things with no budget but the risk on such a manager is huge and as fans I would struggle to see us accepting such a move.

 

Personally I believe that we have to ride out this season and salvage what we can and look at replacing McGhee without the costs. If by some miracle he gets to grips with this team in that period then great, but it's hard to see that happening. In the next 6 months the club need to be working very fucking hard to find that diamond in the rough manager that will turn things around but it's a huge challenge as they will be trying to manage a team at a rotten club, saddled with debt and shackled by the dying Scottish football establishment around them in a hideous economic recession. Good luck with that.

[Rebus30]

In my first week in exsistance they won the Cup winners cup and the Scottish Cup, my birth must have spurred them on 

 

hmmm

[BobbyBiscuit]

Aberdeen will sack manager Mark McGhee following Saturday's visit to Ibrox to face Rangers. (Daily Mail)

[glasgow sheep]

I'm going to try really hard here to not get labelled as an apologist for McGhee or to be seen as supporting his managerial regime. I have been hugely unimpressed with the way that McGhee has managed the team since his appointment and I am not sure that anything will change. He appears to a be a combatitive character who struggles to get the best out of our footballing staff for whatever reason but I am not convinced that he is a bad manager per se. Although he has been for us, no argument, and in an ideal world we should get rid and build again with a better quality option.

 

As always there is a bigger picture to consider in this that may mean that the simple, straightforward result of sacking him and his team and starting again (again) may not be the smartest option. I think in our anger and embarrassment we need to at least consider that.

 

I agree it is unfair to compare JC and McGhee and you cannot argue their records are miles apart at Aberdeen. It is also unfair to compare them because the climate in which they are operating is also miles apart. Crowds were falling in the last seasons under JC and McGhee has not been able to arrest that fall for sure. We also have to appreciate there is the most savage economic recession on in all of our lifetimes and every club, indeed every business, is seeing the same problem. Its not a black and white issue, although I concede its a pretty dire one. The collapse of TV revenue has also severely impaired the player budget in a way that JC never had to contend with, not even close. McGhee simply has not been able to draw on anything like the same resource as JC did in his early years. Results and performances were sliding very fast when JC was pushed out as quality players were leaving and he was not able to replace them. JC has done nothing since leaving Pittodrie to suggest he is a manager in great demand.

 

I actually think McGhee has brought in some decent players and with the obvious glaring error in the back line we have a side well capable of beating anyone in the league and winning more than we lose. He has, without doubt, been hammered with key injuries but for whatever reason is finding it difficult to motivate the squad as a whole. If we pay him and his team off then I fear that we will have a smaller, poorer squad next term and that is frankly a terrifying prospect under any manager. Add that to the fact that we are not a club who can go after managers as we please, even guys like Butcher, McInnes or Adams would think twice about taking the job and we would not have the money to prize them away. It's possible to pull out examples where an unknown manager has done exceptional things with no budget but the risk on such a manager is huge and as fans I would struggle to see us accepting such a move.

 

Personally I believe that we have to ride out this season and salvage what we can and look at replacing McGhee without the costs. If by some miracle he gets to grips with this team in that period then great, but it's hard to see that happening. In the next 6 months the club need to be working very fucking hard to find that diamond in the rough manager that will turn things around but it's a huge challenge as they will be trying to manage a team at a rotten club, saddled with debt and shackled by the dying Scottish football establishment around them in a hideous economic recession. Good luck with that.

 

As ever a well argued and reasoned post ajja.  Main issue I would have is that we are in the middle of a truly horrific run with no turning point in sight.  Only hamilton sit between us and the bottom of league and the concern would be that McGhee will not be able to pull us away from the relegation trap door.  I would say given the standard of the league that relegation is unlikely but long gone are the days when we could argue we are too big or good to be relegated.  The biggest worry is the set up and balance of the defence. If that is not sorted we will struggle and I'm convinced that McGhee will NOT be able to sort it out from the evidence I have seen so far.  Therefore we need to find a way to bite the bullet.

[manc_don]

Aberdeen will sack manager Mark McGhee following Saturday's visit to Ibrox to face Rangers. (Daily Mail)

 

What's the point in that?

 

Ajja, great post as usual, as GS says, my biggest fear is that if we do stick with him, he doesn't appear to know how to turn things around. I really thought after the Hibs and the cup game result our season may turn for the better, but it hasn't.

 

The board need to be firm about this. They should have either sacked him, or stated they will back him in the January transfer window, allow him (ensure that he does) get 2 full backs in and then see how we go. Then they could at least say they tried. Surely if it's going to cost too much to sack, then this would be the option? Either way, it's a long wait till Jan....

[BobbyBiscuit]

As ever a well argued and reasoned post ajja.  Main issue I would have is that we are in the middle of a truly horrific run with no turning point in sight.  Only hamilton sit between us and the bottom of league and the concern would be that McGhee will not be able to pull us away from the relegation trap door.  I would say given the standard of the league that relegation is unlikely but long gone are the days when we could argue we are too big or good to be relegated.  The biggest worry is the set up and balance of the defence. If that is not sorted we will struggle and I'm convinced that McGhee will NOT be able to sort it out from the evidence I have seen so far.  Therefore we need to find a way to bite the bullet.

 

Have to agree with GS here, the prospect of relegation is extremely real and that would harm the club much more in every sense possible and for that reason he has to go.  And I need to go back to a point I've made a few times, at no time in his tenure has McGhee had us consistently playing well and picking up points, so there is nothing there for me to suggest the current predicament is only a temporary one.

[glasgow sheep]

Crude maths, presuming a change of manger would boost crowds (I realise this may be a bit unrealistic)

 

Average crowds are sub 8000.

Last season they were about 1000

 

2000 x £20 = £40,000

 

Reported comp £400,000 + whatever it costs to get a new guy, so I suppose the economics of it make sense IF we can then punt him for nothing in May and IF we don't get relegated

 

 

[Azteca1903]

Crude maths, presuming a change of manger would boost crowds (I realise this may be a bit unrealistic)

 

Average crowds are sub 8000.

Last season they were about 1000

 

2000 x £20 = £40,000

 

Reported comp £400,000 + whatever it costs to get a new guy, so I suppose the economics of it make sense IF we can then punt him for nothing in May and IF we don't get relegated

 

Surely that should be multiplied by the number of games between now and when McGhee is removed?

[mizer]

Personally I have no faith in McGhee being able to turn round the slide in form. The reason for this is based on our results at the end of last season. We started losing and only won 2 of our last 13 SPL games, it was an abysmal run.

 

 

[Ajja]

I agree that the risk of sticking with him this season is significant and relegation is a real prospect in a league where there is little to put between most teams. However, I have enough optimism that without too many injuries and players out we are capable of winning enough games to get to mid-table.

 

Here is a question for you. It's clear nobody trusts McGhee to make the right decisions to turn things around in any significant way but do you believe that the Board have the skill set to select his successor with any degree of competence ? I don't think I do and that's actually a bigger worry for me.

[glasgow sheep]

Surely that should be multiplied by the number of games between now and when McGhee is removed?

 

of course it would

Home games left this season excluding cups and presuming equal home and away games is 13

13x£40k is £520k

Therefore IF crowds go up by 2000, which is highly debatable, we might break even in terms of the difference with and without McGhee but even then it is a much reduced income on recent years.

[Azteca1903]

of course it would

Home games left this season excluding cups and presuming equal home and away games is 13

13x£40k is £520k

Therefore IF crowds go up by 2000, which is highly debatable, we might break even in terms of the difference with and without McGhee but even then it is a much reduced income on recent years.

 

Factor in the potential financial implications of relegation and it becomes hard to defend McGhee. Although I accept that any projections on attendences based on managerial change are purely speculative.

[manc_don]

I agree that the risk of sticking with him this season is significant and relegation is a real prospect in a league where there is little to put between most teams. However, I have enough optimism that without too many injuries and players out we are capable of winning enough games to get to mid-table.

 

Here is a question for you. It's clear nobody trusts McGhee to make the right decisions to turn things around in any significant way but do you believe that the Board have the skill set to select his successor with any degree of competence ? I don't think I do and that's actually a bigger worry for me.

 

This is where our catch 22 situation comes in to play. I want McGhee gone because I don't trust him, but the fundemental problem is still here, the board. They have made so many dud appointments over the years that I have no faith in the club full stop. We're stuck in a vicious cycle and the only thing that keeps us from chucking it all in is the faint hope and optimism that someone may turn it around.

 

Either way, our SPL status is no way guaranteed, no matter who is in charge.

[Ajja]

Personally I have no faith in McGhee being able to turn round the slide in form. The reason for this is based on our results at the end of last season. We started losing and only won 2 of our last 13 SPL games, it was an abysmal run.

 

We are dealing with a different team now though. If the majority of them were fit I would have much more belief than the squad we had last season. Trouble is, they aren't fit.

 

In terms of attendance, I fear Jager is correct. A new manager is not likely to improve figures in the short term, as I said before I believe there are economic challenges that go way beyond Aberdeen FC's ability to attract greater foot traffic.

[CtS]

I don't think we'll get relegated even if he stays in charge, but I wouldn't want to be MM doing those interviews with the press week in/week out for the rest of the season.

 

I guess the easy decision is to sack him, the bold decision is to leave him to get on with it. But he'll need some big performances from his team to win some of those fans back.

[Ajja]

of course it would

Home games left this season excluding cups and presuming equal home and away games is 13

13x£40k is £520k

Therefore IF crowds go up by 2000, which is highly debatable, we might break even in terms of the difference with and without McGhee but even then it is a much reduced income on recent years.

 

Sure I heard Richard Gordon say last night that we needed 11,000 coming through the doors on average to break even in normal conditions. Obviously, we are way off that now so would need to be seeing an uplift to around 12,000-13,000 to balance out early games and deliver 11,000 average over season to not lose money. That's not even factoring in the comp money that might go out. Not going to be a particularly profitable season, despite lifting the CIS cup 

[BobbyBiscuit]

I agree that the risk of sticking with him this season is significant and relegation is a real prospect in a league where there is little to put between most teams. However, I have enough optimism that without too many injuries and players out we are capable of winning enough games to get to mid-table.

 

But what if - and going on recent years this is a distinct possibility - we get the injured players back only for them or others to be injured again?  Looking at the teams he has been sending out, how much different would they really be? Pawlett and Considine in, has anyone seen enough of Vuja to be 100% sure he's going to be a player? Fyvie wasn't an automatic starter at the start of this season. 

 

McGhee is still fielding sides who should be winning most of these matches, they certainly shouldn't be shipping 9 or collecting only 4 points from the last 10 games or whatever it is.

 

Here is a question for you. It's clear nobody trusts McGhee to make the right decisions to turn things around in any significant way but do you believe that the Board have the skill set to select his successor with any degree of competence ? I don't think I do and that's actually a bigger worry for me.

 

The Calderwood appointment was absolutely a good choice, so I don't think it's fair to say they are utterly disasterous when it comes to appointing managers. The other choices they've made... well, with the exception of Alex Miller, I can understand why the others were appointed. It's not worked out for them of course but at the time each appointment would have had some support at least within the fans.

 

The list of potential managers is worrying, so in turn, yes, you'd have to say that the board's chance of getting it right is also worrying.

[bloo_toon_red]

But what if - and going on recent years this is a distinct possibility - we get the injured players back only for them or others to be injured again?  Looking at the teams he has been sending out, how much different would they really be? Pawlett and Considine in, has anyone seen enough of Vuja to be 100% sure he's going to be a player? Fyvie wasn't an automatic starter at the start of this season. 

 

McGhee is still fielding sides who should be winning most of these matches, they certainly shouldn't be shipping 9 or collecting only 4 points from the last 10 games or whatever it is.

 

The Calderwood appointment was absolutely a good choice, so I don't think it's fair to say they are utterly disasterous when it comes to appointing managers. The other choices they've made... well, with the exception of Alex Miller, I can understand why the others were appointed. It's not worked out for them of course but at the time each appointment would have had some support at least within the fans.

 

The list of potential managers is worrying, so in turn, yes, you'd have to say that the board's chance of getting it right is also worrying.

I agree with all of this.  The players we have are under-performing and many have lost faith in McGhee's ability to motivate them.  Despite what some media reports suggested, there was no real Herculean effort on Tuesday night from the players and on the few occasions that McGhee sent instructions to players, they appeared to be carried out with some reluctance.  A new man will hopefully be able to get that extra 10-20% that these players are capable of.

 

Over the course of his 17-month tenure as Aberdeen manager, can anybody suggest any good results that McGhee has provided?

[Ajja]

But what if - and going on recent years this is a distinct possibility - we get the injured players back only for them or others to be injured again?  Looking at the teams he has been sending out, how much different would they really be? Pawlett and Considine in, has anyone seen enough of Vuja to be 100% sure he's going to be a player? Fyvie wasn't an automatic starter at the start of this season. 

 

McGhee is still fielding sides who should be winning most of these matches, they certainly shouldn't be shipping 9 or collecting only 4 points from the last 10 games or whatever it is.

 

The Calderwood appointment was absolutely a good choice, so I don't think it's fair to say they are utterly disasterous when it comes to appointing managers. The other choices they've made... well, with the exception of Alex Miller, I can understand why the others were appointed. It's not worked out for them of course but at the time each appointment would have had some support at least within the fans.

 

The list of potential managers is worrying, so in turn, yes, you'd have to say that the board's chance of getting it right is also worrying.

 

Very limited evidence available I agree. That said, I would happily see Considine and Vuja in the backline at the moment and I'm sure Howard or Langfield would too. The complete collapse of our central defence is actually more frightening than our lack of decent full backs as far as I can see. From what I saw of Fyvie in Perth he changed the game when he came on and he was in control of everything at Alloa before he went off. It's not so much about whether the players ot come in are better, it's more about having a stable first 11. We are constantly having to piss around with our starting team and it destroys any chance of confidence building or finding a groove. Not suggesting its the silver bullet but it's a contributing factor.

 

In terms of managerial appointments, there is a world of difference between thinking that a manager is the right choice at the time and them turning out to be the right choice. Most of our managers have been fairly obvious choices, guys doing or having done decent jobs at other Scottish clubs, promotions from No. 2 etc with the exception of Ebbe. Very little evidence of a Board applying a high degree of research, hard work and insight into appointments. I agree, they probably all seemed sensible enough but not particularly inspiring. McGhee was appointed in exactly the same style, laziness and fan pressure rather than genuine enterprising Board activity. Fully expect we will do the same again. Eric Black is likely having lunch with Miller as we type.......it's hardly inspiring stuff is it ?