baggy89 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Posted July 7, 2017 This should all have been dealt with years ago. It is not whether former employee's should have been paying tax on their EBT loans. From a footballing perspective these were side letters to contracts and as such these employee's (in the case of players) did not have their full contracts lodged with the governing body. Ergo; incorrectly registered = ineligible to play = results void. Quote
CtS Posted July 7, 2017 Report Posted July 7, 2017 I don't really give a fuck what Milne's personal agenda is with regards to generating cash via matches against them, he's the figurehead of our club, and he knows that our astute, knowledgeable, and loyal fanbase won't ever forget or turn a blind eye to the (now proven) nine years of cheating by oldco rangers. "It gave us the opportunity to get players we may otherwise not have been able to afford." David Murray. And it left the rest of Scottish football chasing a lost cause - with dire consequences for many clubs. They should be stripped of titles, it's the football equivalent of failing a drugs test, they cheated to gain an unfair sporting advantage. And I'm pretty sure I'd be of the same opinion even if I wasn't a passionate follower Aberdeen Fc. Quote
tlg1903 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Posted July 7, 2017 I don't really give a fuck what Milne's personal agenda is with regards to generating cash via matches against them, he's the figurehead of our club, and he knows that our astute, knowledgeable, and loyal fanbase won't ever forget or turn a blind eye to the (now proven) nine years of cheating by oldco rangers. "It gave us the opportunity to get players we may otherwise not have been able to afford." David Murray. And it left the rest of Scottish football chasing a lost cause - with dire consequences for many clubs. They should be stripped of titles, it's the football equivalent of failing a drugs test, they cheated to gain an unfair sporting advantage. And I'm pretty sure I'd be of the same opinion even if I wasn't a passionate follower Aberdeen Fc. Well look at Alex Thopmsons take on it. He has no horse in this race. Quote
RicoS321 Posted July 16, 2017 Report Posted July 16, 2017 Was flicking through the channels, when I spotted this film on BBC2 just now. Watched it for a couple of minutes, and came across this beauty of a line. I don't think I've seen this on any of the social medias and such like. I'd tweet it, but I'm nae cool enough. Somebody must've spotted it before me? Anyway, luckily youtube has the business.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHqbLkIZLH8#t=51m41s Quote
BobbyBiscuit Posted July 18, 2017 Report Posted July 18, 2017 https://johnjamessite.com/2017/07/18/the-anatomy-of-a-cover-up/ Some interesting reading there, leaked emails including one from our own Duncan Fraser on whether the SFA should question the so-called punishments handed out to the huns. I appreciate it's from John James's site and he has been questionable in some of the stuff he has posted, but this makes for interesting reading. Quote
RicoS321 Posted July 18, 2017 Report Posted July 18, 2017 Interesting stuff. Obviously we can take JJ with a pinch of salt, but there's no reason to assume that those emails are anything but genuine. Both Topping (surprisingly) and Fraser come out of this with something approaching decency. The LNS inquiry is similar to that of Grenfell in the way that it was/is designed/limited to avoid a useful outcome that would satisfy anything, but simply produce a report that could be waved in front of people to show that something was being done (a bit like the dons' report into the redevelopment of Pittodrie). Grenfell deliberately excludes any investigation into the political side of the disaster, rendering it useless, the LNS was simply orchestrated at a point where it would have been impossible to go against the tax case initial findings - they saw their moment before the appeal and took it. In both cases, it was glaring obvious and highlighted before the inquiries began. Quote
Ten Caat Posted July 18, 2017 Report Posted July 18, 2017 These emails if proven to be genuine must spell the end for Doncaster and Regan. I would presume that JJ would not risk a huge libel case and therefore i would conclude that they are indeed real. Now I can only presume that Duncan Fraser will have been made aware by somebody by now that these emails have been made public. He does indeed come over as being concerned with the outcome at that time but essentially states that because of what happened he felt unable to take these concerns any further. The haste with which this matter was dealt with and the ensuing loss of the Big Tax Case appeals by oldco prove that the SFA and SPL/SPFL wanted this matter swept under the carpet asap and the initial loss in a lower court of the BTC provided them with that opportunity and the limited scope of the Nimmo Smith "judgement" (bear in mind he was retired when he carried this out and his report holds no legal authority in the slightest) allowed them to claim a level of gravitas that your ordinary punter may not have realised was actually totally phoney. Now the BTT has went against oldco there is now a window of opportunity for all decent fans of Scottish football as a whole to unite and demand that the whitewash that took place in 2012/13 is revisited and proper sanctions are levied against the club in liquidation. Of course this will require a united front with fans of other clubs whom in ordinary circumstances we might find unpalatable (or even stronger) but to get the proper resolution our differences must be put aside for the time being. It worked when the SPL clubs were voting on whether to accept newco into the SPL or have them admitted into SFL1 as it was. The fans of ourselves Celtic and Dundee United have already made their positions clear. It is now up to us to lead and ensure the boards of our clubs know that if this is allowed to be whitewashed for a second time that "the game's a bogey". The threat of fans boycotting home games should see action being taken ( I'm aware that they have already received substantial funds in season ticket sales but the thought of losing 3-4k average walk up revenue plus lost income from catering etc would concentrate any board's minds). This is our chance to right the wrongs and get change in Scottish football that shows we wont allow the rulemakers to ride roughshod over everyone to suit the needs of 2 institutions and instead run the game for the benefit of everyone. "Siding" with the Dhims may be vomit inducing but they have the clout to get this ball rolling and its up to us to keep kicking that ball until the authorities act. Regan out! Doncaster out! Strip the tainted titles and get sevco properly recognised as a new entity! Stand free loons (and quines)! Quote
RicoS321 Posted July 18, 2017 Report Posted July 18, 2017 Aye, that's about it. Time to see if DST are just a toothless organisation or not. Releasing a statement and then leaving it is unacceptable. They should release another, stating that they are disappointed that the club have not pursued a new inquiry and further sanctions in light of the "new" evidence. They should use the emails in their statement to highlight Aberdeen's previous position, and request that the club issue a public statement. Also, state that they'll be getting together with other clubs' supporters clubs to pressure their respective clubs into also releasing statements and pressuring the SPL board and continuing to ramp up the pressure with organised boycotts etc. I suspect DST are happy just to have released a statement - that's their work done... but perhaps I'm being harsh. Quote
BobbyBiscuit Posted July 19, 2017 Report Posted July 19, 2017 An extra paragraph has been added today to Duncan Fraser's email which is posted on John James site: https://johnjamessite.com/2017/07/19/the-discredited-lns-commission/ This has left for me a very bad taste in the mouth. The ill informed, vitriolic comments of some suggest that this case was not worth pursuing. Although I was not on the Board at the time but I believe the case absolutely needed to be pursued. Unfortunately I perhaps naively assumed a different, more, in my view, appropriate outcome Quote
manc_don Posted July 19, 2017 Report Posted July 19, 2017 All fine and well. But fuck me. Make it fucking public, stop tip toeing trying to get things done behind the scenes. The only way to sort this clusterfuck up is by getting everyone behind it and starting some momentum. DST need to be putting more pressure on the club. Ten Caat is absolutely right, time for us all to stand up and be counted. Quote
RicoS321 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Posted July 19, 2017 All fine and well. But fuck me. Make it fucking public, stop tip toeing trying to get things done behind the scenes. The only way to sort this clusterfuck up is by getting everyone behind it and starting some momentum. DST need to be putting more pressure on the club. Ten Caat is absolutely right, time for us all to stand up and be counted. It is public. This is as public as it gets. The MSM won't touch it. DST are probably under the impression that they're job - of releasing a single statement - is done. Most fans don't gie a shite either. Quote
manc_don Posted July 19, 2017 Report Posted July 19, 2017 It is public. This is as public as it gets. The MSM won't touch it. DST are probably under the impression that they're job - of releasing a single statement - is done. Most fans don't gie a shite either. Okay, I meant more of an official statement from the club, not a leaking. Quote
manc_don Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Wonder how many more we'll see coming out of the woodwork over the next few weeks: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15428043.Rangers_saga_in_new_twist_as__oldcos__stalk_the_club/?ref=mrb&lp=6 Convenient when HMRC will be wanting to claim back lost monies from those who benefitted... Quote
donsdaft Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Difficult to believe but all this could get even more messy than it has already. There must still be some meat left on the carcass if the vultures have started circling. Quote
OxfordDon Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Barry Ferguson first to be bankrupted by mandatory EBT repayments to HMRC: Former Rangers star Barry Ferguson declared bankrupt with debts of more than £1.4 million Quote
Jute Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Barry Ferguson first to be bankrupted by mandatory EBT repayments to HMRC: Former Rangers star Barry Ferguson declared bankrupt with debts of more than £1.4 million Think this is to do with a film investment scam that he was involved in rather than the EBT case. Quote
OxfordDon Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 This is exactly what HMRC should be doing, going after the players. Surely one of these would have information/emails/letters/recorded conversations to really show what was going on Did read somewhere that is what HMRC are doing. Thought Ferguson was the first to feel the bite, but aye, it might be the other bits of tax-dodging he seems to be involved with, taxman is definitely hammering him though Quote
scotfree Posted July 25, 2017 Report Posted July 25, 2017 List of Hun cunts and what they have to pay back in tax. Arthur Numan, £510,000: Dutch full-back arrived at Rangers from PSV Eindhoven in 1998 for £4.5million. Played 118 times. Barry Ferguson, £2.5million: Former youth player who became Rangers captain. Played at Ibrox from 1996-2003 and 2005-09. Bert Konterman, £300,000: Dutch defender signed by Dick Advocaat for £4.5million in 2000. Bert Van Lingen, £65,000: Assistant manager under Dick Advocaat from 1998 to 2002. Billy Dodds, £190,000: Arrived in a £1.5million deal from Dundee United in 1999. Bob Malcolm, £125,000: Central defender started his career with Rangers in 1997. Played 88 games. Left for Derby County in 2006. Carlos Cuellar, £448,255: Spanish centre-half arrived from Osasuna in a £2.37million deal in 2007. Moved to Aston Villa in 2008. Chris Burke, £55,000: Started a career at Rangers, playing 96 games from 2002 to 2009. Left for Cardiff City. Christian Nerlinger, £1.8million: German midfielder signed from Borussia Dortmund in 2001 and left in 2004. Claudio Caniggia, £1million: Argentinian signed from Dundee for £1million in 2001. Craig Moore, £1.1million: Australian centre-half played more than 90 games from 1994-98. Returned in 1999 and stayed until 2005. Dado Prso, £1.9million: Croatian striker was free transfer in 2004. Left for Dinamo Zagreb in 2007. Dan Eggen, £68,000: Norwegian central defender signed in 2003 from Spanish club Alaves. Sir David Murray, £6.3million: Owned club from 1988-2011, during which Rangers lifted 15 titles and 26 cups. Sold shares to Craig Whyte for £1. Dick Advocaat, £1.5million: Rangers manager from 1998-2002. Spent almost £74million to win five trophies, including two titles. Douglas Odam, £119,000: Finance director for 15 years. Left in 2003 to take up a role within ?Sir David Murray’s business empire. Egil Ostenstad, £370,000: Norwegian forward signed from Blackburn on a free transfer in 2003. Fernando Ricksen, £684,225: Dutch right-back signed in 2000 from AZ Alkmaar for £3.75million. Federico Nieto, £24,500: Argentine striker joined on loan deal in 2005 from Almagro. Scored once in three matches. Gavin Rae, £376,000: Midfielder signed from Dundee in 2004 for a fee of £250,000. Moved to Cardiff in 2007. George Adams, £30,000: Head of youth development between 2003-05. Graeme Souness, £30,000: Player-manager from 1986-91. Gregory Vignal, £173,000: French defender joined on loan from Liverpool in 2004. Moved to Portsmouth in 2005. Ian McGuinness, £25,400: Club doctor sacked after Paul Le Guen left. Ian Murray, £95,000: Midfielder was a free transfer from Hibernian in 2006. Left in 2007. Jan Wouters, £285,000: Former Dutch midfielder joined as a coach under Dick Advocaat, then Alex McLeish. Left in 2006. Jean-Alain Boumsong, £630,000: French centre-half joined in 2004 on a free transfer. Moved to for Newcastle for £8million. Jerome Bonnissel, £48,000: French left-back arrived in 2003 from Bordeaux. Jesper Christiansen, £320,000: Danish goalkeeper signed in 2000 as injury cover. Joel Le Hir, £28,275: Paul Le Guen-appointed physiotherapist from 2006 to 2007. John Greig £40,000: Played for club from 1961-78. Managed Rangers from 1978 to 1983. Later became a director. John McClelland, £225,000: Appointed a director in 2000. Chairman from 2002 to 2004. Resigned last year. Julien Rodriguez, £638,000: French centre-half signed from Monaco in 2005 for £1million. Left for Marseille in 2007. Kevin Muscat, £1million: Australian defender joined from Wolves in 2002 on free transfer. Joined Millwall in 2003. Kris Boyd, £215,000: Signed from Kilmarnock in 2006 for £500,000. Left in 2010. Libor Sionko, £178,000: Czech midfielder signed from Austria Vienna in 2006. Played 18 matches before signing Copenhagen in 2007. Lorenzo Amoruso, £639,000: Italian defender signed from Fiorentina for £4million in 1997. Moved to Blackburn Rovers for £1.4million in 2003. Martin Bain, £249,000: Chief executive of Rangers from 2005 to 2011. Resigned after Murray sold club to Whyte. Marvin Andrews, £316,025: Centre-half from Trinidad and Tobago joined from Livingston in 2004. Maurice Ross, £120,000: Played 78 games for Rangers from 2000 to 2005, before moving to Sheffield Wednesday. Michael Ball, £1.4million: Left-back signed from Everton in 2001 for £6.5million. Moved to PSV Eindhoven in 2005. Michael Mols, £260,000: Dutch striker joined Rangers under Dick Advocaat. He arrived in 1999 and spent five years at Ibrox. Mikel Arteta, £674,603: Spanish midfielder joined in 2002 and played 50 matches, scoring 12 goals. Moved to Everton. Nacho Novo, £1.2million: Spanish striker joined in 2004 from Dundee for £450,000. Neil McCann, £500,000: Winger joined from Hearts in 1998 for £2million. Nuno Capucho, £970,000: Portuguese winger who arrived in 2003 for £700,000. Olivier Bernard, £224,000: French defender arrived on a free transfer in 2005. Paolo Vanoli, £592,000: Italian left-back joined from Bologna in 2003 and played in 28 matches. Paul Le Guen, £201,250: French manager replaced Alex McLeish in 2006. Left in January 2007 after a string of poor results. Pedro Mendes, £1million: Portuguese midfielder joined in 2008 for £3million. Joined Vituria Guimares in 2010. Peter Lovenkrands, £902,000: Danish winger arrived in 2000 from Akademisk Boldklub for £1.3million. Ronald De Boer, £1.2million: Dutch midfielder joined in 2000 under Advocaat. Ronald Waterreus, £510,000: Dutch goalkeeper joined Rangers in 2004 from Manchester City. Sasa Papac, £319,000: Bosnian left-back arrived in 2006 from Austria Vienna for £450,000. Sotirios Kyrgiakos £532,200: Greek centre-half signed from Panathinaikos in 2005. Stefan Klos, £2million: German international keeper signed in 1999 for £800,000. Join Bayer Leverkusen in 2007. Stephane Wiertelak, £28,275: French fitness-physiotherapy coach joined Rangers in 2006 under Le Guen. Steven Davis, £600,000: Northern Ireland midfielder. Left for Southampton in the summer. Steven Smith, £7500: Defender came through youth ranks and made debut in 2004. Steven Thompson, £485,000: Joined from Dundee United in 2003 for £200,000. Went to Cardiff City in 2006. Tero Penttila, £140,000: Finnish defender joined in 1999 for £300,000 from Haka Valkeakoski. Left in 2002 to join HJK Helsinki. Thomas Buffel, £1.2million: Belgian midfielder joined in 2005 for £2.3million from Feyenoord. Tore Andre Flo, £1.3million: Norwegian striker joined from Chelsea in 2000 for £12million. Sold for £6.75million to Sunderland in 2002. Yves Colleau, £106,200: Former French midfielder served as assistant to Le Guen at Rennes, Lyon and Rangers from 2006 to 2007. Zurab Khizanishvili, £405,000: Georgian defender joined on a free transfer from Dundee in 2003. Moved to Blackburn Rovers in 2005. Quote
Madbadteacher Posted July 25, 2017 Report Posted July 25, 2017 Bob Malcolm, £125,000: Central defender started his career with Rangers in 1997. Played 88 games. Left for Derby County in 2006. Central defender :rofl: Quote
scotfree Posted July 25, 2017 Report Posted July 25, 2017 "Michael Ball, £1.4million: Left-back signed from Everton in 2001 for £6.5million. Moved to PSV Eindhoven in 2005." If I've worked it out right, that's £25.454 per game. Quote
manc_don Posted July 25, 2017 Report Posted July 25, 2017 That makes for hilarious reading! How the hell can Muscat owe 1million after 1 year!?!? Would be a sad day when we have to rely on the business sector to do what's right. It's thoroughly shameful that the governing bodies and associated clubs are going to do nothing but pay lip service. Milne has been honest about his intentions, despite being completely out of touch and incorrect. I suspect Petrie is full of shit. Quote
Ten Caat Posted July 25, 2017 Report Posted July 25, 2017 Are those the actual sums of the tax bills due? Looks more to me like the sums paid to the players in their EBT scheme. Of course tax will be due on those sums mostly at the higher level of taxation at that time (40%?) Then of course there are the terms of the EBT itself, which essentially works as a loan from the club to the player. Details of repayment rates/dates are unknown but the liquidators of oldco must surely now go hunting to find these side contracts and demand full repayment on behalf of deadco creditors.. Quote
BigAl Posted July 25, 2017 Report Posted July 25, 2017 TC is right, those are the not the amount of tax potentially due, but in fact the monetary value of the EBTs each individual was for. Quote
Madbadteacher Posted August 6, 2017 Report Posted August 6, 2017 Mair fawning shite from the BBC http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40830521 Quote
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