Jute Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Is that an automatic 10 point penalty then? Do they only get chucked out of the league if they go into liquidation? Should be automatic 10pt deduction however fully expect to rip up the rule book in this instance. Sad thing is even with a 10pt deduction they will still finish clear in 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 How many points will an SPL club be deducted? The simple answer is 10 points. The only way a club can be deducted more than 10 points is if it goes into administration twice in the same season. When will they lose the points? If the "insolvency event" occurs during the season, the points are docked straight away. If it happens in the close season, the club starts the next season on minus 10 points. Can a club appeal a points deduction? Only if it can prove it did not go into administration. What happens if administration lasts over more than one season? If a club begins a season in administration, they will begin on minus 10 points. What happens if a club goes into administration twice in one season? Ten points are docked each time a club goes into administration, unless the events are linked. It is up to the SPL board to decide, this can be appealed. Will a club still be able to sign players? No. The only exception is if a team requires an emergency goalkeeper or if a club is looking to replace a player who has left the club. This means no permanent transfer and no loan signings. Clubs can still sell players. The SPL board has the final say. How many points will a First, Second or Third Division (SFL) club lose? The SFL do not have a set figure. The amount docked from clubs is decided by the board on a case-to-case basis. The SFL are also likely to impose a registration embargo. There are no fixed punishments and the SFL can set any conditions it chooses. Can an SFL team be thrown out of the league mid-season? No. Gretna and Livingston were relegated to the Third Division for being in administration but this can only happen in the close season. What can the Scottish FA do to clubs? The Scottish FA's Judicial Panel has the power to suspend or terminate the membership of any club which goes into administration. This has never happened. Alternatively, the SFA can instead choose to “censure, fine, sanction and/or penalise the member in such manner as it considers appropriate”. This has nothing to do with points deductions. The SFA has never exercised this power. Another option available to the SFA is to exclude a club from the Scottish Cup. This is a new provision which first appeared in the organisation’s articles of association in the 2011/12 season. Can UEFA do anything to Scottish clubs in administration? If a club is playing in Europe, it needs a UEFA club licence. If a club goes into administration but has already been given permission to play, it will not lose its licence for the season. Would a club get a new licence when in administration? It is unlikely. The club would have to prove it owes no money to other clubs, to its employees, and to HM Revenue and Customs. Additionally, the club would also have to prove to the SFA it is likely to survive until the end of the season in which the licence applies to. Club licenses are valid for one season and are granted at the start of each season. What happens when a club wants to exit administration? A Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) is drafted for a club to try and reach an agreement with its creditors. Clubs must agree with those it owes money to over how much to pay back, and over what period of time. Everyone who is owed money is then invited to vote on the proposal. A 'yes' vote is required from creditors up to 75% of the value of the overall debt. For example, if total debt is £10 million, the company must receive the backing from creditors to the tune of £7.5 million. How long does it take before the club is out of administration? If a CVA is approved, creditors have a period of 28 days to register their opposition to the decision. If there is no opposition, the club exits administration and continues in its current form, paying back its creditors over the agreed period of time. What if a club fails to reach an agreement? A club may try again to reach a satisfactory agreement with its creditors. But, if is unable to agree a deal, the company will be dissolved and the club will cease to exist. There is an alternative for football clubs. As was the case in England with Leeds United, the insolvent company can create a "phoenix" club and attempt to transfer every part of the club to a new business, leaving behind the debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Their bigger worry will be Europe: http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/scottish-premier/rangers/277010-what-happens-when-a-football-club-goes-into-administration/ Since the turn of the century, seven Scottish clubs have entered administration. With Rangers new owner Craig Whyte having admitted that he is working to avoid taking the Ibrox club down the same road, the spectre of insolvency still hangs over the national game. The business implications of calling in the administrators are countless and can threaten the existence of a company, or provide it with a road to recovery. The sporting implications also have to be considered, and with clubs answerable to as many as four different governing bodies for different competitions, can be wide reaching. We've put together a layman's guide to the rules and regulations regarding administration from the authorities concerned and answered some of the key questions often posed. How many points will an SPL club be deducted? The simple answer is 10 points. The only way a club can be deducted more than 10 points is if it goes into administration twice in the same season. When will they lose the points? If the "insolvency event" occurs during the season, the points are docked straight away. If it happens in the close season, the club starts the next season on minus 10 points. Can a club appeal a points deduction? Only if it can prove it did not go into administration. What happens if administration lasts over more than one season? If a club begins a season in administration, they will begin on minus 10 points. What happens if a club goes into administration twice in one season? Ten points are docked each time a club goes into administration, unless the events are linked. It is up to the SPL board to decide, this can be appealed. Will a club still be able to sign players? No. The only exception is if a team requires an emergency goalkeeper or if a club is looking to replace a player who has left the club. This means no permanent transfer and no loan signings. Clubs can still sell players. The SPL board has the final say. How many points will a First, Second or Third Division (SFL) club lose? The SFL do not have a set figure. The amount docked from clubs is decided by the board on a case-to-case basis. The SFL are also likely to impose a registration embargo. There are no fixed punishments and the SFL can set any conditions it chooses. Can an SFL team be thrown out of the league mid-season? No. Gretna and Livingston were relegated to the Third Division for being in administration but this can only happen in the close season. What can the Scottish FA do to clubs? The Scottish FA's Judicial Panel has the power to suspend or terminate the membership of any club which goes into administration. This has never happened. Alternatively, the SFA can instead choose to “censure, fine, sanction and/or penalise the member in such manner as it considers appropriate”. This has nothing to do with points deductions. The SFA has never exercised this power. Another option available to the SFA is to exclude a club from the Scottish Cup. This is a new provision which first appeared in the organisation’s articles of association in the 2011/12 season. Can UEFA do anything to Scottish clubs in administration? If a club is playing in Europe, it needs a UEFA club licence. If a club goes into administration but has already been given permission to play, it will not lose its licence for the season. Would a club get a new licence when in administration? It is unlikely. The club would have to prove it owes no money to other clubs, to its employees, and to HM Revenue and Customs. Additionally, the club would also have to prove to the SFA it is likely to survive until the end of the season in which the licence applies to. Club licenses are valid for one season and are granted at the start of each season. What happens when a club wants to exit administration? A Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) is drafted for a club to try and reach an agreement with its creditors. Clubs must agree with those it owes money to over how much to pay back, and over what period of time. Everyone who is owed money is then invited to vote on the proposal. A 'yes' vote is required from creditors up to 75% of the value of the overall debt. For example, if total debt is £10 million, the company must receive the backing from creditors to the tune of £7.5 million. How long does it take before the club is out of administration? If a CVA is approved, creditors have a period of 28 days to register their opposition to the decision. If there is no opposition, the club exits administration and continues in its current form, paying back its creditors over the agreed period of time. What if a club fails to reach an agreement? A club may try again to reach a satisfactory agreement with its creditors. But, if is unable to agree a deal, the company will be dissolved and the club will cease to exist. There is an alternative for football clubs. As was the case in England with Leeds United, the insolvent company can create a "phoenix" club and attempt to transfer every part of the club to a new business, leaving behind the debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Should be automatic 10pt deduction however fully expect to rip up the rule book in this instance. Sad thing is even with a 10pt deduction they will still finish clear in 2nd. And they can be in and out of Administration within 28 days meaning they will still be fine to get a UEFA license to play in Europe next season. Cunts could be out of this without a scratch. On the other hand, will be interesting to hear if this is all pre-tax case. They've been pushing the line that it's only the tax case lingering over RFC but it seems there's a lot more problems to be had. Losing the tax case could then push them to liquidation which is the dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 BBC Scotland's business and economy editor, Douglas Fraser, said the legal moves on Monday surrounding administration would give the club "a few days for negotiations with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC)". The revenue could stand to lose out on any tax due if Mr Whyte chooses to collapse the company. Mr Whyte is understood to be the club's main secured creditor via a floating charge over its assets. This would allow him to pursue other avenues such as receivership or pre-pack administration to satisfy the debts which the club owes him. These would involve transferring Rangers assets out to another company or companies to satisfy outstanding debts to the floating charge holder and leaving the club behind with the debt. In such scenarios, it would be likely that Rangers FC - formed in 1873 - would be formally wound up. Surely in such scenarios, division 3 beckons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU_64 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Fuck yeah!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentorred Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have my hard hat on. Isn't football all abour rivalries, and Rangers are one of our biggest, the fans are always up for the games, we love to see the dons beat Rangers. Won't anyone miss that, will be get as excited when they are replaced by Hamilton or Raith Rovers? Look at attendances for non Old firm games? Yes they have brought it on themselves, but part of me think's this cannot be good for the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Oh ya fucking dancer In some respects regardless of what penalties they may or may not incur (and I firmly believe that it will be not ) the mere fact that this happens is almost enough in itself. Never ever ever let any hun cunt you know forget about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have my hard hat on. Isn't football all abour rivalries, and Rangers are one of our biggest, the fans are always up for the games, we love to see the dons beat Rangers. Won't anyone miss that, will be get as excited when they are replaced by Hamilton or Raith Rovers? Look at attendances for non Old firm games? Yes they have brought it on themselves, but part of me think's this cannot be good for the game. I made a similar point a few months ago when hertz were facing wind up orders. If it can happen to those two then who's next? Our debt is massive for the size of our club after all. That said Lawell can say what he likes in the press but i lay money the tims are shitting it a bit, they are going to lose a lot of money if der hun go to the wall. The only way for scottish football to move forward in my eyes is by the o/f having considerably less influence. Huns go down to div 3 then they cant join together and veto any motion made with the 11/1 voting system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Sky Sports News suggesting the move has been made today, pre-tax case, because if he waits until then Craig Whyte would no longer be the preferred creditor in the administration process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtS Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If he's really only in it for a few quick bucks, surely some mad hun supporting cave dweller is going to try to kill Craig Whyte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Oh ya fucking dancer In some respects regardless of what penalties they may or may not incur (and I firmly believe that it will be not ) the mere fact that this happens is almost enough in itself. Never ever ever let any hun cunt you know forget about this Indeed, even if they get a points deduction, they finish 2nd. Even if they miss out in Europe it will likely only be one tie given the shocking nature of their squad. It's probably enough to know that they are not only scum but cheats in the same vain as Motherwell, Dundee, Gretna and Livi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 RANGERS chairman Craig Whyte has made the following statement: The Club announces today it has served notice of Intention to the Court of Session to appoint administrators. Since I took over the majority shareholding of the Club in May last year, it was clear to me the Club was facing massive financial challenges both in terms of its ongoing financial structure and performance and the potential consequences of the HMRC first tier tax tribunal. I have taken the decision that the most practical way to safeguard the long term future of the Club is to go through a formal restructuring process. It may still be possible to avert this but that is not the most likely way forward. What is of paramount importance is the long-term security, survival and prosperity of this great football club. That is the job I knew I was taking on when I became majority shareholder in the Club and it is in the best interests of Rangers that it is completed before the end of this season. It has meant turbulent times. We have gone from a Club mired in excess of £20 million bank debt to a club which is trying to stand on its own feet, earning more than it spends. From my early days as chairman I saw that administration was a very real option to enable the Club to address these challenges and make a fresh start. Frankly, the case for administration in pure financial terms was compelling but I was acutely aware that such a great institution as Rangers could not be viewed exclusively in financial and business terms. The fact is that Rangers ongoing financial position and the HMRC first tier tribunal are inextricably linked. As I have said before, Rangers costs approximately £45 million per year to operate and commands around £35 million in revenue. From the outset I have made it clear that I do not think it is in the best interests of Rangers to throw good money after bad. Against a backdrop of falling revenues, costs have to be cut significantly. Painful as though that may be, it is the future of clubs such as ours. There is no realistic or practical alternative to our approach because HMRC has made it plain to the Club that should we be successful in the forthcoming tax tribunal decision they will appeal the decision. This would leave the Club facing years of uncertainty and also having to pay immediately a range of liabilities to HMRC which will be due whatever the overall result of the tax tribunal. In blunt terms, if we waited until the outcome of the tax tribunal, the risk of Rangers being faced with an unacceptable financial burden and years of uncertainty is too great. We should not forget the tribunal relates to a claim by HMRC for unpaid taxes over a period of several years dating back to 2001 which, if decided in favour of HMRC, the Club would be unable to pay. If HMRC were to agree, even at this late stage, a manageable agreement with the Club, then a formal insolvency procedure could yet be averted. It goes without saying that would be our preferred outcome. If not, further investment in the Club would be impossible as the threat of winding up by HMRC cannot be removed. The Rangers FC Group, the majority shareholder in the Club, is prepared to provide further funding for the Club on the basis the funding is ring-fenced from the legacy HMRC issue. The club has engaged Duff and Phelps, a specialist restructuring practice, to assist in finding a solution to the present position. As a result of that advice, it has been decided to seek the protection of a moratorium from HMRC action whilst a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) proposal is made to creditors. This, if approved by creditors within a month, would minimise any points deduction and allow the club to participate in European football. In short, if the Club proceeds into administration then it will have to emerge from that process, with the agreement of creditors, within a month or so in order to be able to play in Europe next season. An administration process will, regrettably, lead to a cost-cutting programme and the potential loss of jobs across the business. It gives no one any pleasure to consider that possibility, but it is one that is facing businesses in any walk of life. There will, no doubt, be people - some of them who presided over the Club in past years - who will contend that the steps we are announcing today are unnecessary. All I would say to these people is that if they want to step up to the plate and invest money in Rangers to avoid a restructuring of the business, then I would be most willing to talk to them. In the past unfortunately, there were people who not only failed to prevent Rangers being engulfed by our current problems but chose not to invest their money to help put it right. As I said recently, these are tough times but I can reassure Rangers supporters that the Club will continue and can emerge as a stronger and financially fitter organisation that will compete at the levels of competition our fans have come to expect. As chairman of the Club, every action I take will be in the interests of Rangers and there are many people working at the Club who are dedicated to making Rangers a success. I would like to thank supporters for their great commitment to Rangers. This great football club can recover from the situation in which it now finds itself and be the force in football that the fans deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentorred Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So what happens in the cups, will they be kicked out of this seasons league cup, Scottish Cup and Europa league, oh wait they already were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hearts due about 1 million, Dundee United 100k and Dunfermline 80k by Rangers FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frewdon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hearts due about 1 million, Dundee United 100k and Dunfermline 80k by Rangers FC. Thought football debts were ring fenced and had to be paid for them to get uefa licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Sky news reporting Gazza has turned up at Ibrox with a fishing rod and a frozen chicken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWL. Haven't laughed as much since granny caught her tit in the mangle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Whyte on SSN now. Saying the HMRC action could leave RFC with bill of up to 75m. Administration only say to safeguard future of RFC. Seems to suggest by going into admin they wont need to pay HMRC bill. I thought the only way HMRC didnt get its money was if the company was liquidated? Says administration was always an option since before he took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Same thing as saying they are fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have my hard hat on. Isn't football all abour rivalries, and Rangers are one of our biggest, the fans are always up for the games, we love to see the dons beat Rangers. Won't anyone miss that, will be get as excited when they are replaced by Hamilton or Raith Rovers? Look at attendances for non Old firm games? Yes they have brought it on themselves, but part of me think's this cannot be good for the game. Yeah, i get you, said similar re OF going to play in England. But still, if Carlsberg did Mondays and all that jazz... Starting in Div 3 is unlikely to happen should they be liquidated. The SPL is a seperate body and membership can be applied for and if voted in by the other members they'd be back in it immediately, or so I'm led to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Q. What's the difference between Whitney Houston and Rangers? A. Two days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 huns getting punted into div 3 would fuck the tv deal as well so i doubt it would happen. But hey ho, let's savour this moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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