Dirthy Filthy Hun Scumbag Vermin (deceased) and Poundland tribute act

[baggy89]

The excessive force thing is a complete nonsense. Just look at the carry on's Ramos has, in every game with the slightest contact. If McKenna had gone down like Ramos does, is the red card upheld? That rule is a load of shite. Pisses me off as much as the if the defender makes contact with you in the box, don't try and stay on your feet, as you won't get the penalty.

 

And lets not underestimate the effect it will have in the grass roots game, and how much harder are ref's going to have it at that level? Respect my arse.

[RicoS321]

So what we are saying now is that something is only an issue if it's likely to cause injury?

 

If a player slides in for a tackle and gets the ball but does it in such a manner that the studs are showing, regardless of whether he actually violently and dangerously hurts his opponent, he runs the risk of a yellow or red card because of what might have happened,  but actually striking out can be regarded as inconsequential because it may not be "violent enough"

 

Yes. One has the potential to seriously harm if it is deemed reckless or out of control (depending on the challenge it could be, and often is, complete luck that a player gets there before the opponent) and the other is an act of petulance that is unlikely to cause injury. I'd have thought that's exactly how we'd want to view it?

 

That's one seriously fucked up rule. Basically what is being advocated here is that you can, with impunity take little kicks out at an opponent during the course of a game and goad him into reacting.

Take a hot headed (and strangely misshaped headed) hun striker as an example. Rather than giving him a couple of little pushes as they both vied for the same space, lets say McKenna just gave him a little tap or two around the ankle, then that's OK. He could, in theory, as long as it's not violent, continue to kick him until said hun gets so pissed off he strikes back, and that's OK and in keeping with the rules of the game?

 

What you're saying happens all the time unspotted by the ref. Little digs in the ribs, shirt tugging, barging (McKenna), standing on toes, slagging his ma, homophobic abuse, racist abuse (Tims™)  etc. etc. The kick that Morelos did, and probably the barging that McKenna did (given he repeated it) are yellow card offences. The notion that you can do it all the way through the game isn't true, it's covered by this ruling - you can do it twice and get booked twice. Morelos and McGregor's incidents were both yellow cards by the current rules governing the game (which has fuck all to do with the SFA). The ref in our game made a misjudgement on the severity of the Morelos incident just as Thompson made a misjudgement on Brophy's goalscoring opportunity at the weekend - both acceptable mistakes for a ref to make in theory. The panel's decision on these may vary, but I'm struggling to see how anyone can possibly say that McGregor or Morelos' acts were in any way worthy of more than a yellow on looking at the actual rules of the game - it's very clear cut. There is certainly no hun-bias in the decision. There could indeed be anti-AFC bias if they don't overturn Devlin's card but that has nothing to do with the hun decisions which were blatantly obvious to any impartial reviewer (unfortunately, hun cunts). McGregor got away with not getting a yellow card, Morelos didn't as his was subject to review.

 

It's taken us by surprise because we (me included) did not know the rules and neither did any manager it seems (judging by Stubbs' reaction) and no BBC pundit did either until confirmed by DB the other night (which they then proceeded to ignore).

 

As for "if this happened in the street", it's a bit of a stupid argument. If I sliding tackled someone in the street then I'd probably be cautioned, similarly if rugby tackling. The notion that sport should adhere to those rules is ludicrous. If someone punched someone in a game then they may indeed face a caution as that could be deemed a criminal offence, but that would be up to the police. There is nothing currently preventing them investigating incidents like these and it is not up to the SPFL to decide that. Similarly, if I bump into someone's car and a wee bit of handbags insued then the police would likely just calm the situation down and leave the resulting damages up to the insurance companies (varies depending on the officer of course, but you can see that it's not just fitba where things are open to interpretation). 

 

In terms of Ramos' actions, they are supposed to/should be entirely irrelevant. Ramos would likely see the opponent getting a red card in real time, but when reviewed by panel they'd reduce to a yellow. I'm not sure it has any bearing on the argument - simulation being a different problem. It was clear thon Ajer cunt acted in a "Ramos-like" fashion as he went down like he'd been shot. In grass roots fitba, refs appropriately deal with this shite all the time as they did before 1998 when gently kicking an opponent (see Beckham v Simeone) became some sort of vicious assualt.

 

 

[baggy89]

From the tribunal:

 

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

 

Not sure this part (in bold) doesn't render everything else provided as mitigation null.

 

The Ramos reference was in relation to the reasons provided in the tribunal. If McKenna had gone down screaming and clutching his knee would the original red have stood?

 

As far as grass roots refs, I am aware through the couple I know (who have given up because of it) of regular threats of violence/actual violence following the issuing of cards; including being followed home after the game.

 

If kicking an opponent is now up to interpretation, as to the severity of harm to the injured party, in the professional game. This kind of behaviour towards officials will only increase. Folk willing to referee games will decrease and likewise opportunities to play.

[RicoS321]

From the tribunal:

 

Not sure this part (in bold) doesn't render everything else provided as mitigation null.

 

Nope. Not sure why it would?

 

The Ramos reference was in relation to the reasons provided in the tribunal. If McKenna had gone down screaming and clutching his knee would the original red have stood?

 

As far as grass roots refs, I am aware through the couple I know (who have given up because of it) of regular threats of violence/actual violence following the issuing of cards; including being followed home after the game.

 

If kicking an opponent is now up to interpretation, as to the severity of harm to the injured party, in the professional game. This kind of behaviour towards officials will only increase. Folk willing to referee games will decrease and likewise opportunities to play.

 

You've misunderstood it. The severity of harm to the injured party is not relevant, it's the likelihood of harm. The two will often go hand in hand of course in that if I two footed tackle someone in the balls it is going to hurt and it's a red card, but there are a large number that will be only based on intent. Similarly, petulant kicks like Morelos' aren't intent on causing injury. You're clearly not addressing that incident, as you know it wasn't and so do every other non-partisan viewer. In those cases it's clearly easy. If McKenna had gone down screaming and clutching his knee then the red would still have been rescinded as there was clearly no contact with his knee. In other instances it may be harder to adjucate and so the red would not be rescinded (ie. the same as exists currently).

 

Your point about refs in the grassroots game aren't pertinent to the point in question, you're putting up a strawman argument based on verbal threats or abuse that nobody is arguing for or against and are covered in the rules of the game (new and old). In addition, the arguments I'm making are based on the fact that the law has already been changed some time ago, I'm not arguing based on the laws of the game that don't exist anymore (like I was when Morelos was originally red carded as I was unaware of the actual rules).

[baggy89]

Why would there need to be actual contact on his knee for that joint to take an abnormal stress load as a result from a kick to the leg?

 

For arguments sake McKenna twists his knee as a result of the kick and stretches ligaments. The intent was the same it was "just a petulant swipe" there was no intention to injure the player, is it just unfortunate on McKenna and Aberdeen and still a yellow?

 

Intent or no intent to injure it is a violent reaction. Petulance would have been a shoulder shove back.

 

Raised hands/push probably a yellow.

 

A kick, headbutt or thrown punch is excessive force whether contact is made or not. Otherwise you are opening a can of worms.

 

When is a kick too hard or to which part of the body is there no intent to injure? If a headbutt is made to the opposition forehead (hardest part of the skull and unlikely to cause injury) and at a slow speed, it's a yellow? but a faster movement making contact with the eye-socket a red? A punch to the nose or one to the chest? What if you aim for the nose but hit fresh air?

 

Who is the arbiter of what is excessive force and intent to injure?

 

Grey areas make referee's jobs harder at all levels, as it enables people to question decisions. It should be black and white. As for pro's involvement in getting the rule adapted, fuck off just don't kick, punch, bite, headbutt anyone on the pitch. Problem solved.

 

[RicoS321]

All those things are for professionals to decide, and I would think that we could all make a pretty good judgement call based on the facts in front of us - refs do this in every other decision. I would suggest that if McKenna is fatally injured then regardless of whether or not it was a petulant swipe then the red would not be rescinded. As both McKenna and Ajer were fine, then it was a fairly easy call as I suspect most would be. None of the examples you give would be particularly hard to differentiate. The rules are clear and in the case of Morelos it was also clear that it wasn't excessive force, thus it was clear that the decision was wrong going by the existing rules. Black and white doesn't exist in fitba, and that's what makes it good. Sending offs for kicking somebody harmlessly on the back of the legs cause they're winding you up are not what makes fitba good. The footballers clearly called it right in this case, as your example of Ramos rolling about at the slightest touch clearly backs up.

[Lencarl]

Kenny Miller and Lee Wallace have won their appeal to the SPFL against the way in which Rangers took disciplinary action against them. The pair were fined and suspended after a dispute with former manager Graeme Murty in the wake of Rangers' 4-0 semi-final defeat by Celtic in April.The Ibrox club also said they were "disappointed that the decision seems to have been leaked before the club were advised of it by the SPFL".

A Rangers statement added: "Decisions on such matters deal largely with procedural issues, not the conduct which gave rise to the club's sanctions. The club was only presented with a 40-plus page decision after 16:00 BST and will now take some time to consider matters before deciding how to proceed."

 

Wonders will never cease but no doubt they will win the appeal.

 

 

[Lencarl]

The Rangers fans have ‘reputation of troublemakers’ according to Spanish press as Villarreal game is declared ‘high risk. They claim The Rangers fans have earned themselves the ‘reputation of troublemakers’.

The report also says Rangers ultras ‘provoked incidents’ before last month’s European qualifier against Osijek, where two Croatian fans were stabbed in a brawl before the Ibrox match.

 

Let's all hope there is no trouble from the huns tonight and no red cards issued to players and no riots among the fans and no ban from UEFA regarding future European matches.

[Ten Caat]

Sevco 1 down after 45 seconds 

 

Come on you Yellow Submarines!

[manc_don]

I think Ge55ard is going to do quite well with them 

[tlg1903]

He's had a depressingly good start manc, no question of that. Lets not get carried away though.

[manc_don]

He's had a depressingly good start manc, no question of that. Lets not get carried away though.

 

I've been quiet on all things hun, trying to wait and see, but their usual banana skins don't seem to be slipping them up.  Thank god i'm no-where near the UK so don't have deal deal with the media wankfest. It's going to be unbearable.

[Lencarl]

Villarreal missed at least 3 open goal chances. They played Sevco off the park in the first half. For a club reputedly costing £70 Million to assemble they are in need of a top class striker. This run of good luck that The Rangers are having will come to an end soon, then Gerrard will see how much he is adored by the hun fans.

[manc_don]

I think you need to take the red spectacles off, the fact remains they are in Europe and got a result away at a tough ground.

[BigAl]

Much as it hurts me to type this, it has to be said that was an excellent result they got last night.

Didn't watch it, so no idea how lucky or otherwise they were but I can't help but think it is a result we would have been incapable of achieving

[Ten Caat]

Saw bits of it and no doubt first half they were totally outclassed and fortunate to still be only 1-0 down at half time.

 

Second half they improved immensely and shows that it is worth having a go and playing footbally the correct way rather than getting 10 men behind the ball and trying to limit damage. Although the last 10 minutes they were hanging on for grim death, sevco could (and probably should) have won it in injury time with a breakaway attack putting one of their players one on one with the Villareal keeper

 

Agree that this is a game we would have lost by 3 or 4 goals

[Lencarl]

Bored today so watched the Livingstone victory over Sevco. Livingstone played very well and fully deserved the 1-0 win. Aberdeen will have their hand's full against them.

 

Wonder what sort of punishment the huns will get for one of their supporters throwing a missile at the linesman's head and drawing blood.

 

Time will tell.

[tom_widdows]

Bored today so watched the Livingstone victory over Sevco. Livingstone played very well and fully deserved the 1-0 win. Aberdeen will have their hand's full against them.

 

Wonder what sort of punishment the huns will get for one of their supporters throwing a missile at the linesman's head and drawing blood.

 

Time will tell.

 

Got a bad feeling that it will be livingston who cop a fine for it as they are responsible for stewarding at their own stadium

[Ten Caat]

Got a bad feeling that it will be livingston who cop a fine for it as they are responsible for stewarding at their own stadium

 

That cannot happen. If it did then fans of every other team in Scotland would start lobbing thousands in loose change at the poor linesman nearest the away section at Ibrokes. Mind you sevco probably wouldn't mind if the cash they collected from the sidelines covered any fines

[tom_widdows]

Anyone recall what happened last time they pulled that shit at pittodrie (robbie winters the victim)?

 

Anyway as they go to Tynecastle next weekend, should that result in another defeat will the media start to turn on young Stevie....or will it depend on their efforts against the Austrians on Thursday night?

[Lencarl]

Assistant referee Calum Spence was hit by an object thrown from the crowd. The incident happened in front of the Rangers fans in the early stages of the second half and play was stopped while Spence received treatment.

 

This is how the BBC reported the incident on their website. thrown from the crowd in front of the Rangers fans

 

The culprit is clearly seen on TV video and should be easy to arrest.

[CvB]

Assistant referee Calum Spence was hit by an object thrown from the crowd. The incident happened in front of the Rangers fans in the early stages of the second half and play was stopped while Spence received treatment.

 

This is how the BBC reported the incident on their website. thrown from the crowd in front of the Rangers fans

 

The culprit is clearly seen on TV video and should be easy to arrest.

 

given that the huns appeared to have three sides of the ground then it would have been difficult for it to be anything other than a hun.

Sell out Livvy pricks.

[tom_widdows]

given that the huns appeared to have three sides of the ground then it would have been difficult for it to be anything other than a hun.

Sell out Livvy pricks.

 

Legacy of the 10000 seat rule brought in by the likes of Doncaster and co to appease the evil hordes.

Livi would have been quite happy staying with the original 2 sided almondvale (circa 6000 capacity). Rumour has it they recenlty looked to sell the stadium to a supermarket and move to a smaller ground nearby but nothing came of it.

[Slim]

Amazingly the guy who wounded the linesman is only at no. 2 in the Scottish football press public enemy list having been unable to dislodge the downright evil Scott McKenna who left a poor wee lamb in agony with a dead leg.

 

No doubt if an Aberdeen fan assaulted a match official there would be a 12 page glossy pullout.

[manc_don]

Honestly, the Scottish media are a complete joke, it would be laughable if it wasn't so predictable.