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What we have to remember is that chief executives are businessmen, money men if you like or more appropriately, career men. Doncaster and Regan are not in this to protect sporting integrity at all and are using all the marketing spiel they can ti keep money in the game. I am more and more confident that "rangers" will be blocked from div 1 and that this pair of knobbers will get their jitters, or at worst, will have no option but to resign. They are so far out of touch with football tribalism they wouldn't know it if it bit them on the arse, spat it in their face and gave them a rousing rendition of the billy boys in the middle of brigton cross on the 12th July.

Social conditions my fucking arse.

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Peter A Smith ?@PeterAdamSmith

SFA source says Stewart Regan's comments on "social unrest" were not refering to Rangers in First Division but if there was "no Rangers."

 

Well that's the way I read it but it still fucking outrageous, especially when you consider "rangers" history of social unrest and even more so given the likely social unrest their scum fans will inflict on every club over the next few years who voted No, are deemed tarrier, enemies or on the list

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Peter A Smith ?@PeterAdamSmith

SFA source says Stewart Regan's comments on "social unrest" were not refering to Rangers in First Division but if there was "no Rangers."

 

That's all very well, and I think his quotes may back that up, but the rest of his quotes are still shocking.

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I'm encouraged by the words and statements from lots of SFL clubs thus far.  On face value it would seem that most are opposed.  Certainly it seems that the "deal" on the table, apart from anything else, offers nothing to the 20 (well now 19 I suppose) 2nd and 3rd Div sides who will also miss out the visit of hun scum twice a season.

However a lot of statements have only made a qualified rejection of the "current" deal.  The incentives (bribes) and league reconstruction (league fixing) offered isn't attractive to enough of them.  There is a long week where this deal could be adjusted, pressure put on and fucking cunts like Regan, Doncaster, Traynor, Keevins et al spouting bullshit about Armageddon, social unrest, a Tsunami of shit and meteor strikes.

 

AFC have done so well in all of this, I just hope the actions of others, including other SPL clubs claiming to have up held sporting integrity, don't end up making me have to choose whether to turn my back on them and the rest of the Scottish Game.

Hold firm SFL

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At last! Finally a day which stands out in the long-running car-crash of Scottish football.

 

A day where a decision was reached.

 

A day when the voice of fans / customers was finally seen to have been heard and acted upon.

 

A day when integrity in sport came first and money came where it belongs in sport – second.

 

A day when this was done decisively – it appears by an ten to one majority.

 

A day in which all fans (and here Celtic and Rangers agree) can share the view that the right thing was done in a world where it looked as if the word had disappeared.

 

Scare stories

 

It began with the usual tabloid scare stories about how Scotland’s Premier League faces meltdown without ‘Gers.

 

It got worse with the Scottish Premier League chief executive Neil Doncaster saying there might not be a vote. The SPL might wait till the Football League vote next week on where “Rangers” should play.

 

Could the abject Mexican stand-off of football “management” really pass the buck for yet another week?

 

Yes – frankly. It looked credible.

 

But at Hampden Park by mid-afternoon it was dealt with. The old Rangers FC could not transfer its share in the SPL to the new company.

 

European glory a few years ago to this. Yet it’s what most “Rangers” fans now want – albeit for various reasons.

 

Those familiar with this blog will have seen them articulated in recent months.

 

So now the buck is not passed – the decision is made. The Football League chairmen now have to step up next week here.

 

“Rangers” fans do not want Division 1 in some new-fangled two-tier “Premier League” set-up wholly designed to shoe-horn “Rangers” back into Rangers in the SPL, like nothing happened.

 

But everything happened. Rangers blew up and detonated into “Rangers” via tax, police and football investigations which will run for months, years.

 

New model

 

This must mean one, clear thing and there’s no sign that the SFL, SPL and SFA have grasped it: the old model is gone.

 

No point worrying about the loss of revenue, the TV deal. The old Rangers cash cow is gone. It cannot be allowed back along the same failed lines.

 

So clearly a new business model needs urgently inventing and working on. One wants to see energy going into that – not lamenting past models and TV deals and lamely frightening folk about what the TV deal will be worth because…the folk aren’t buying.

 

The SPL bosses just slung the old “succulent lamb”‘ business plan in the bin.

 

The SFL next week may well take the bin and sling its contents to rot away into history.

 

Great day

 

An urgent review beyond that done by Henry McLeish needs to grasp the new reality and yes, opportunity with new outside thinking to meet a new challenge and a new chance.

 

In short – forget anyone still bellyaching about old money now gone – the spilled-milk lament.

 

Look instead to those thinking creatively about new chances and choices. Fewer clubs? Possibly.  Survival of the fittest? For sure.  Fairer cash distribution? We hope.

 

And hope is what’s been given a chance already, by a great day at Hampden when not a ball was kicked.

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Perhaps a bit melodramatic but never the less I was in rant mode and the SFA have utterly disgusted me tonight.

 

Hi

I have never before felt obliged to email the SFA to express my utter disgust and contempt for the actions of the Chief Executive, or indeed any other office bearer. I think in general the SFA have handled things reasonably well over the last few months, but have unfortunately let themselves down in the last few weeks in their actions, lack of leadership and moral fortitude.

However tonight's comments from Mr Regan are inexcusable and tantamount to inciting a riot.

To state that there will be social unrest unless rangers (sic) are allowed in to the SFL is utterly irresponsible and reprehensible.  Even more so given the same supports history of social unrest both here and abroad (which has gone largely unpunished) and especially when you consider the explicit threats of violence made by significant numbers of rangers fans against, among others, the members and clubs of the Disciplinary Appeal Panel that approved their Signing Ban.

I expect Mr Regan to immediately retract these statements and consider his position as Chief Executive of the SFA at the nearest possible opportunity.

 

Furthermore his threats of over riding the decisions of the SFL, if they do indeed vote to allow Seveco entry at Division 3 level rather than Div 1 level, is more likely to result in the death of Scottish Football than any figures he and Mr Doncaster can come up with.  It is interesting to hear that there has been no deliberation over the amount of money that will be lost to Scottish Game when fans turn their back, forever, on a corrupt, duplicit league and game whos sole purpose is to ensure the success both financially and materially of two clubs from Glasgow.  The game will not die Mr Regan.  The game will have to readjust from the crazy levels of spending, the undemocratic structure and the strangling duopoly it currently practices.  This is a good thing.  If some clubs suffer, if some clubs exist purely to provide opposition to the two biggest clubs and pick up the crumbs then it will be their fault and theirs alone.  Scottish Football has existed and will exist without money.  It will die without fans.

 

Yours in disgust

Glasgow Sheep for now a

Aberdeen Season Ticket Holder

& Scotland Supporters Club Member

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Livi Director on Twitter, we're not alone

 

Last one. 9. SFL clubs asked to bail out SPL. If the boot was on the other foot they'd pull the boot in without a second thought.

 

8m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

8. SFL supporters - some of your clubs have been left in a horrendous predicament. Whatever happens, back your club.

 

10m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

7. Scottish football will survive. Short term pain could result in long term gain. Structural change required and far better governance

 

13m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

6. Neil Doncaster has virtually no credibility and his position must now be untenable. SPL are bust and have no Plan B

 

15m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

5. It is a disgrace that Dundee and Dunfermline have been left hanging on, unable to plan properly for the season ahead.

 

16m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

4. I have very little sympathy for SPL clubs whose flawed business model depends so heavily on Rangers or Sky and ESPN.

 

18m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

3. the SFA have let everyone down with a total lack of leadership, which you might expect from a governing body.

 

19m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

2. SPL no vote today more of a cynical buck passing episode than anything approaching integrity.

 

20m David Stoker ?@davidstoker_lfc

Some personal observations on SPL/SFL situation: 1. vote on First Div entry for newco appears to me to be too close to call.

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" things,

 

1)

Perhaps a bit melodramatic but never the less I was in rant mode and the SFA have utterly disgusted me tonight.

 

Fan-fucking-tastic. I salute you sir!

 

2)

Our supporters can rest assured that we will continue to fight to protect Celtic’s best interests within the Scottish game.

Celtic's best interests, not the best interests of Scottish football?

 

Is it just me or is this a bit self-serving and somewhat ominous?

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Crikey.

 

"Due to speculation surrounding the issue of “Rangers” and its possible admission to the SFL, the Board of Cowdenbeath FC wishes to clarify the following.

 

At the regular monthly Board Meeting held on Monday 2nd July 2012, the Board of Cowdenbeath resolved that it would support any application made by “Rangers” to join the SFL. It would not support any attempt to admit “Rangers” into the First Division of the SFL.

 

Today, “Rangers” have been excluded from the SPL.

 

At an Emergency Board Meeting held at Central Park tonight (4th July 2012) the Board again considered the matter.

 

The Board decided that it would support any application by “Rangers” to join the SFL but would vote against the present proposal which, amongst other matters, would admit “Rangers” directly into the First Division of the SFL.

 

This decision has been taken in the interests of football and the best interests of Cowdenbeath FC.

 

A Board spokesman said “If integrity in our game is to survive, then Rangers must start off SFL life in the Third Division. This is an SPL problem but the Clubs of that league have taken their decision for reasons which they must explain to all Scottish football supporters. The SPL and SFA should have resolved this long before now. They have tried to pass the buck to the SFL clubs and have tried to force them to accept “Rangers” into the First Division – to provide the greatest benefit to the SPL. This lacks any integrity and casts a dark shadow over our game. Cowdenbeath FC condemns this approach. The Board is in no doubt that our stance is consistent with integrity and the long term financial future of our Club. We ask all supporters of what ever Club, who share our views, to rally round and back us in the Season ahead”.

 

Chairman Donald Findlay added – “Speaking for myself, and myself alone, it is clear to me that people at the highest levels of our game have tried to hold a gun to my head and the heads of my colleagues. That will never work. But I have a long memory and will not forget what they tried to do and the way they tried to bend me, and this Club, to their will. That will never be allowed to happen”

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Excuse me, but where have Milne and other Directors/Chairmen "tried to force "rangers"(sic) into the 1st Div"?

 

Give me a direct quote from an SPL chairman please, not some more fucking banal drivel from cockwomble, the "wormtongue" to the "Theoden's" of the SPL/SFL/SFA

 

I don't think Milne has but there are a number of SPL chairman who have, and some quite explicitly like Gilmour at St Mirren.  There are a number of SPL clubs driving this bullshit, but despite Regan's bluster if the SFL stand firm it won't happen.

 

Also note that Cowdenbeath, like Falkirk, would only vote against the current proposal.  Watch the SFL crumble.

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Last post for the day:

 

The expectation beforehand within the SPL – shared by the Scottish Football Association – was that the outcome would be another deferral, leaving it to the Scottish Football League clubs to accept Rangers into their ranks and sparing the top division chairmen from a decision they did not want to make.

 

There were also some who hoped that Rangers would be able to make sufficient case – coupled with a clear and evident change of attitude – for their admission to the SPL.

 

However – and not for the first time in this saga – Rangers utterly misread the mood of the other SPL clubs. The faux pas occurred despite the fact that Rangers had been briefed at a meeting on Sunday attended by two other SPL chairmen and a vice-chairman, who stressed the need for humility.

 

Murray, in blazer and club tie, arrived at the gathering on Wednesday with the frontman for the Sevco consortium, Charles Green – who did not sport the club’s uniform – and Ally McCoist, the Ibrox manager. A presentation brochure was distributed to the delegates.

 

The back page featured a photograph of a Rangers title win with the words “We Are Rangers” emblazoned across it.

 

“The arrogance was unbelievable,” said one chairman. “The atmosphere hardened immediately. Charles Green conducted himself well enough but the Rangers chairman was arrogant and dogmatic.”

 

Another who was present told The Daily Telegraph: “Some people in the room wanted a reason to make a case for Rangers but the standard of the presentation was woeful.

 

“Ally and Charles Green were not always on the same page but that was not damaging. The chairman was another matter entirely and the brochure was substandard – you could have easily knocked something better together given half an hour. It makes you wonder what kind of management team they have.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9376851/Rangers-hopes-of-reprieve-in-SPL-vote-sunk-by-arrogant-Malcolm-Murray.html

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Regan article back up:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-newco-slow-lingering-death-for-scottish-football-if-rangers-in-third-division-1-2392610

 

He is obstructing justice and should be sacked immediately.  He appears to not care whether sevco are a fit and proper club and meet all the SFA criteria, he is prepared to do everything to make sure they are in one of the top two tiers of Scottish football.  He is a horrendous cunt of a man.

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A rather long but excellent piece on RTC:

 

Stewart Regan tonight stands condemned by one of the most appalling press interviews ever given by a senior official in the Scottish game. But before I start talking about what he did say, let’s be very clear on what he didn’t say; he didn’t say that there will be social unrest if Rangers are not in SFL 1. He used the term “social unrest” in the context of there being no Rangers whatsoever … or at least, no NewCo club bearing that name. I will defend him from that charge – which at least one Celtic website has repeated, without getting its facts right – but no other. For this is a man who has run out his rope, and should now be sent on his way.

 

We are facing a truly astonishing, historic, and potentially devastating moment for Scottish football here. Tonight, we have the head of the Scottish Football Association – a man brought in to revolutionise and modernize the game – threatening the smallest clubs, those who his “duty of care” is greatest to, with penury for daring to put the integrity of the sport first. This is a scandal paralleled only by what is going at Ibrox, and in doing so he has lashed himself to the mast of that sinking ship. His handling of this whole crisis has been a joke, from the way he has defended Campbell Ogilvie through to his statements tonight, which annihilate any credibility he had.

 

It is untenable for the head of the game’s governing body to threaten member clubs who are putting the well-being and reputation of the sport first. He cannot survive it.

 

The logic of his position is so twisted contemplating it requires copious amounts of Jack Daniels; he is saying that Rangers must be an SPL club this time next year. Not only is he suggesting that he will refuse to acknowledge the will of the SFL clubs in this matter, but he is actually threatening the very integrity of next year’s First Division title race itself, before a ball is even kicked. This makes this a unique and horrifyingly history maker in world sport – a governing body leader actually blatantly, openly and unequivocally prejudicing the outcome of a sporting event. It is almost unfathomable, a moment that has no parallel or precedent. How UEFA and FIFA can stand back and allow I cannot even begin to comprehend, but if there was ever a time for member clubs to report their national association to the continental body then this is surely it. My sincere hope is that not one club but many clubs will do so, and ask UEFA to act with urgency to resolve it.

 

But we cannot wait for UEFA. This goes much deeper now than just the future of the club calling itself Rangers. It is an issue so vast it dwarfs even that.

 

This may have begun with a scandal at Ibrox, but this scandal now goes to the heart of everything about the game here, and the people who run it. They have shown themselves to be craven, self-interested, shameless and incompetent. But more than that, they have proven themselves to be thoroughly and undisputedly corrupt.

 

Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and David Longmuir have shamed and disgraced their offices.

 

These people first tried to ram Rangers in the SPL down our throats. Rules would be ignored or just rewritten to accommodate it. Doncaster told journalists off and on the record that he wanted the club in the league “no matter what” they had done – thus prejudicing an independent investigation which his own organisation was running, and casting a dark shadow over another investigation being held by the SFA itself. This marked him out early as an enemy of the sporting integrity of the game, and as someone who could not be trusted to do what was right.

 

As an independent committee of the SFA – one removed from the “old ways” (and we know what that means alright) of doing things- delivered its hammer blow against Rangers by imposing a signing ban, there was talk their decision had shocked Stewart Regan to the core. His behaviour since would indicate that this is the case; he did not do anything to stop Rangers taking the case to the Court of Session, and he has refused to punish them for doing so. The SFA committee which is to impose the new penalty has yet to be reconvened. His comments tonight have prejudiced that future committee as surely as Doncaster’s remarks of earlier have prejudiced the SPL one.

 

For that alone, both men should be calling taxis. Yet they didn’t stop there.

 

Did David Longmuir pen the now notorious “consultation document”? Unknown. But he would have seen it, and he would have had to approve it. From a stance where he stated, plainly, football integrity had no price and that NewCo Rangers could not be put in the SFL at any level other than the bottom, where he actually stated that there was “no mechanism” for doing so, he has turned 90 degrees. His position now is that it can be done and furthermore that it should be done, nee must be done, and that sporting integrity comes second to commercial considerations.

 

He too should be packing his pencils when this thing is resolved.

 

Doncaster’s fingerprints were all over that “consultation document.” So too were Regan’s. They either authored it or commissioned it, and pushed it on him. But he accepted it without questioning it, and now is willing to subvert the rules of his own organisation because of it despite the fact the numbers in at are impossible to verify, and its key assertions have been openly questioned, with one chairman (Raith Rovers, step forward Turnbull) flatly telling the media that he did not believe them. He is not alone in holding that view, as many other club officials have verified over the last few days. This crisis spread from the SPL to the SFA and now infects the SFL.

 

In supporting the assertion that the SPL needs Newco there within a year he too is prejudicing the outcome of next season before it even begins, by accepting the caveat that Scottish football needs Rangers to be promoted. If they find themselves in SFL 1 the simple fact is that David Longmuir, Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan will have accepted a premise whereby the SFL’s flagship competition starts with a pre-determined outcome. There will be a clearly stated “requirement” that Newco move up from his organisation’s own flagship league, before a ball is kicked. He is violating the very ethos of sport itself and if there has been a more flagrant breach of faith with the notion of a “level playing field” I have never heard of it, in anywhere, in any game.

 

All of this is cause enough to fire these people with immediate effect.

 

Yet they went further.

 

Doncaster has lied to clubs at every stage, including, if you believe Charles Green tonight, and there is no reason not to, Newco Rangers itself. With the vote outcome looking tough, he tried to cobble together a package of “acceptable sanctions”, to arrange a hasty pre-vote meeting to sell his wares and then attempted to have the meeting itself postponed – which would have thrown the entire game in this country into unimaginable chaos. He even tried to sell the idea of a secret ballot, all the easier to flog his scandalous plans and afford “deniability” to people who, themselves, would have had to have lied to their own supporters.

 

It is to the credit of the chairmen that they rejected the suggestion outright.

 

David Longmuir has now subverted his own organisation to the extent he screwing with the voting system, changing their rules on the hoof and is actually banning one club from having a vote at all. And then there’s tonight, and Regan …

 

What we might be about to see will make everything that has come before seem legitimate.

 

The subversion of two independent panels, with the guilt of Rangers already established will be a seismic event which will be felt in the halls at Nyon and Zurich. The punishments in those cases are enough to wipe Newco off the map – the very thing Regan has said would cause “social unrest”. That those committees will be “leaned on” is now without doubt.

 

Yet something even more staggering may be coming.

 

If the SFL clubs follow through on their principles, and Rangers Newco is treated like any other club, and thereby must start in SFL 3, these men have suggested they may apply a truly nuclear solution to what they view as “the problem.”

 

David Longmuir and Neil Doncaster, with the connivance of Stewart Regan, may actually, wilfully, destroy their own organisations and start again. Longmuir may sell out any number of the clubs he has a direct responsibility to support and care for. The guardians of the sport may actually annihilate it instead … deliberately, to get their way.

 

The fans have said no. The clubs will have said no. There will be a complete unification of will, save for a few hold-outs who will see some advantage for themselves in the chaos. The overwhelming opinion of almost everyone who TRULY matters will have been heard, will have been given, and will have been wilfully rejected as without merit. The views of the clubs will have been ignored. The views of the fans will have been treated with contempt.

 

Only a small number of chairmen actually WANT this. The fans are almost united in their rejection of it. Incredibly, if you polled the supporters of every club the view would be UNANIMOUS. Even the fans of the club all this is being done for do not WANT it. Their own rejection might be coached in their typical ego, arrogance and even hate … but their view is no less valid because of that, and their opinion no less valuable.

 

No decision in the history of sport has ever been taken in the face of overwhelming opposition. The views of everyone in it, from chairmen to paying customers, have never been ridden roughshod over to this staggering degree. How can the sport survive if the fans who follow it, the clubs which make it up and the rules which underpin it are ALL systematically destroyed in such a fashion? How can men of supposed intelligence ever believe this would be accepted?

 

Furthermore, the entire SPL 2 thing is a bluff, as anyone who looks at it must be acutely aware. If Rangers Newco is voted into Division 3 that is where they will be next season and no amount of bluster or fury will change that fact, because a restructuring of the game along SPL 2 lines would take a minimum of one year to implement, and would plunge the entire game into civil war, with no hope of any outcome which did not devastate the sport.

 

It cannot be done in that timeframe and it will not be done in that timeframe. If it is going to happen at all it would have to be done at the end of the season, and that would assure an entire summer of battling and legal disputes which would make this close-season seem like a warm up fight before a heavyweight title bout.

 

What would it involve? Well it would involve Newco Rangers not simply starting its existence two leagues above where it belonged but would see a club one year old discarding the whole notion of sporting meritocracy and leaping over two or more entire divisions to take a seat at the top table … putting Scottish football not on a par with professional sports but with Snakes and Ladders. It is hard to imagine the outrage it would cause from the fans of each and every club in the country, not to mention the legal war which would erupt.

 

We would, in that scenario, be looking at a thermonuclear version of where we were a month or so ago, with NO fans buying season tickets, with boycott threats ten decibels higher and with rage underpinning them which would sweep entire boards of directors away if they dared resist. You want to look at a Year Zero scenario? That would be it. What’s more, knowing that such a thing was coming, the fans response would be planned well in advance and instead of coming from individual supporters of single clubs it would be a co-ordinated effort of mammoth proportions, with deadly consequences underpinning it all the way. It would be multi-club, unifying fans from all across the game, and it would be devastatingly effective. Sky would find itself with less customers, bookmakers with less punters and soft drinks manufacturers finding themselves second, for the first time ever, to the multinationals on their own doorstep.

 

In other words, Year Zero for more than just football.

 

How long do you think such a setup could be sustained? How many seasons could it succeed? I would wager that within a year we would be rebooting … again.

 

But none of that has to happen. There is a way forward which can resolve these issues and make things go a lot more smoothly. There is a way in which fan power can be exercised early, to resolve these matters and bring closure, and clarity, to this situation.

 

The supporters who have lobbied their clubs thus far, the clubs who feel they have been let down, the people who have acted with courage, all of them can do so one last time. Fans can contact their directors and make one last demand. Directors can convene EGM’s. Those who believe they have been told lies can choose to act. One more time, let the campaign begin.

 

The three men who have dithered, obfuscated and even lied; the men who would subvert the rules; the men who would prejudice naturally occurring outcomes; the men who prevaricated, stalled and even hidden away when the going got tough can be removed from their posts before they do any further damage. It takes just ONE group of fans to influence ONE club in each section of our game. Those fans would force their board to table motions of No Confidence in the chief executive of their respective part of the structure … and that will trigger the vote.

 

Does anyone believe for ONE SECOND these men have served their respective bodies well? Does anyone believe any of them could successfully argue for their jobs, in the light of forensic examination of their roles? Doncaster, for one, claims financial cataclysm will be inflicted on the SPL should Rangers not be in it for more than one year; can he survive the scrutiny into who’s fault that is? Can he survive when he negotiated the very contracts which he claims will be nullified in that instance, when he, and everyone in Scotland, knew something like this was, more than likely, on its way? Can Longmuir survive being party to threatening his own members?

 

Can Stewart Regan survive considering his appalling statements tonight, and the way in which they prejudice so many of the underlying principles of our game?

 

My money would be laid against it.

 

Tonight, for the first time I can recall following football, I feel part of a fraternity, that of the Scottish football supporter, for a long time ignored, for a long time disdained, for a long time without a voice or a way to express it. All of that is over. We have the power.

 

Now we have to use it. Not in the interests of our own clubs, but in the interests of the game itself. We have spoken up for integrity in the SPL and we have won.

 

Now it is time to speak up for the sport, against those who betrayed it.

 

Nothing we do as fans will ever be more important. This is not about which clubs we follow, but about the integrity, reputation and future of the game itself here in this country.

 

Regan – Doncaster – Longmuir. Out. Out. Out.

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This whole scenario has seen some pretty horrendous lies, quotes and actions from those in power. It's brought out the worst in journalists, broadcasters and some sections of supporters.  But last night, for me, new depths were plunged while listening to Jim Spence, Stuart Cosgrove and Jim Traynor...

 

They all agreed John Brown was a good footballer.

 

I mean, seriously? Come on to fuck.

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I've emailed UEFA this morning about Regan, couldn't find any other way of contacting them other than info@uefa.com

 

It's a sad day when you're hoping another corrupt organisation will come and sort things out.

 

But last night, for me, new depths were plunged while listening to Jim Spence, Stuart Cosgrove and Jim Traynor...

 

They all agreed John Brown was a good footballer.

 

I mean, seriously? Come on to fuck.

 

:lolabove:

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