Sunday Herald: Mark McGhee on his Aberdeen experience

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Fuck me, it's the great "I am" again.

 

Despite his horrendous and pontificating manner of presenting his opinion of McGhee's interview, I do think Rocket, and McGhee, make valid points and points we probably all suspect to be the case.

 

There must be issues within that board and I've long thought there are some well thick individuals amongst the players. And Rocket is right to say he has been there and worked inside AFC so has a valid opinion on how the place operates. By no means indicates it is accurate or indeed fair.

 

Let's face it, the only mistake he owns up to is not "doing due diligence" because he played for us once, however well. The whole tone and content of his responses just reek of that abortion of an interview he gave in the aftermath of the 9-0. This, in fact, sounded like a piece of self promotion by rubbishing his previous employers to try to erase a catastrophic period in his career. Anyone who read all of that would be justified in thinking he is a bitter cunt but I don't think he comes across like that deliberately.

 

Let's face it, going to be jobs coming up soon. 

I really don't think I like Mark McGhee and I definitely no longer have any respect for him, mainly because he's made me dislike a playing legend at the club I love.

[rocket_scientist]

I can see Rockets points but to deny the article is arrogant self serving pish from a very bitter man is as blinkered as denying there is anything deeper wrong with the club. Something that I don't think anyone here is saying.

Since someone has decided to agree with particularly this last paragraph, can I just ask the two of you, what do you both mean?

 

Who's denying anything? The man was a disaster and like the one before him, is so thick he's making it worse with post-AFC drivel in the papers.

 

I don't give a fuck about our ever-growing list of ex-managers, all of whom have been totally shite. I'm more interested in the now and the future and that article, for me, was most useful for learning about the past and in particular, how the prevailing culture was/is.

 

[BigAl]

 

The whole tone and content of his responses just reek of that abortion of an interview he gave in the aftermath of the 9-0. This, in fact, sounded like a piece of self promotion by rubbishing his previous employers to try to erase a catastrophic period in his career. Anyone who read all of that would be justified in thinking he is a bitter cunt but I don't think he comes across like that deliberately.

 

Let's face it, going to be jobs coming up soon. 

I really don't think I like Mark McGhee and I definitely no longer have any respect for him, mainly because he's made me dislike a playing legend at the club I love.

 

Nail squarely on head.....have a plus one TF

[rocket_scientist]

Having had the experience of working for our great institution, admittedly ten years ago, I can understand the sentiments expressed by McGhee in the article.  Obviously I can't comment on issues about the football side of things, but in the back offices there was a real coldness about the staff, particularly those in relatively senior positions.  It should also be noted that a number of these people are still in these positions ten years on making the same mistakes and failures year in, year out.  Milne perpetuates this coldness and cliquiness.  The mentality is just far too north-eastern within the club.  New ideas were not embraced nor particulary encouraged, and non-conformity was frowned upon.  It's no surprise to me that McGhee harbours these thoughts, nor that his predecessor made those comments about the "easy lives" of north-easterners.  They are both correct.

Most qualified poster on this thread alert, with one qualification.

 

If there is a cultural coldness and cliquiness, then this is directly because the chairman tolerates, accepts and/or promotes/does not puncture it.

 

Mentality too north-eastern? You saying that fear of change and failure to embrace new thinking is a north-east phenomenon in particular rather than part of the overall human condition? Does this mean, say, Fife, Tayside, Glasgow and Edinburgh folk are more responsive to change and new ideas?

[Tyrant]

I agree with Bobby. The first and main thing I felt during and after reading the article was sadness.

 

McGhee's undoubtedly feeling hurt and bitter and whether he would admit it or not it's there for all to see.

 

It's alarming to think that he genuinely thought all he had to do to completely turn us around was turn up because he's a Gothenburg great. I'm 26 so narrowly missed out on many of the club's glory years but I can assure you they're important to me. I've seen all the videos and DVDs and despite never seeing many of them play the players that helped make that time great do mean a lot to me and I'm sure all of the other younger fans too.

 

McGhee's still a legendary player and I would hope that Aberdeen fans can treat him with the respect he deserves. As a manager he made many mistakes. No doubt about it. Ones that you can't blame the chairman, tea lady or receptionist for. The writing was on the wall when he started his AFC managerial career by stating he would've preferred the Celtic job. Deep down we'll all understand that but you can't come out and say it in public. That was one mistake out of an absolute fuck ton of mistakes.

 

Whilst Milne must take a lot of the flak for our recently (15 years) of general shiteness (barring the slight, yet fruitless improvement under Jimmy Calderwood) McGhee must take a lot of the flak for how his reign turned out. It comes back down to the basics. How a competent manager can leave a team so unbalanced is still beggars belief.

 

[bloo_toon_red]

If there is a cultural coldness and cliquiness, then this is directly because the chairman tolerates, accepts and/or promotes/does not puncture it.

Yes, I would probably say that he is moreso oblivious to it rather than actively promotes or condones it.  He is a man who believes in hard work and profit and less so the means of how to engender internal working relationships.

 

You saying that fear of change and failure to embrace new thinking is a north-east phenomenon in particular rather than part of the overall human condition?

 

Aberdeen FC has to represent the north east of Scotland.  The north east has plenty of things to shout about, but it has never been good at shouting about it.  Acceptance and self-consciousness are two extremely common and prevalent north-eastern character traits.  I think it comes about from being geographically remote and yet increasingly self-sufficient given the economic strength of the area.  But with that comes suspicion of different methods from other areas.

 

To give just one very basic and non-footballing example the level of casual (and I suppose overt) racism I have come across since returning to the north-east last year is really quite despairing in a city where you would think that oil money would attract intelligent minds.  And therein lies the problem.  The oil money has not bought intelligence.  It has bought Range Rovers, labradoodles, overpriced 3 bedroom semis in Elrick for £300k and season tickets for Pittodrie.  Aberdeen has become that most American of cities - insular, self-serving, quietly arrogant and vocally suspicious of outsiders.  If anyone doesn't like that description then it's maybe because they are one of them.  The man who typifies these traits is the chairman of our beloved football club.  He is a clever man and a wealthy man but he is not an intelligent one.

[Edinburghdon]

To give just one very basic and non-footballing example the level of casual (and I suppose overt) racism I have come across since returning to the north-east last year is really quite despairing in a city where you would think that oil money would attract intelligent minds.  And therein lies the problem.  The oil money has not bought intelligence.  It has bought Range Rovers, labradoodles, overpriced 3 bedroom semis in Elrick for £300k and season tickets for Pittodrie.  Aberdeen has become that most American of cities - insular, self-serving, quietly arrogant and vocally suspicious of outsiders.  If anyone doesn't like that description then it's maybe because they are one of them.  The man who typifies these traits is the chairman of our beloved football club.  He is a clever man and a wealthy man but he is not an intelligent one.

 

Totally agree with this, it only really becomes obvious after living away from Aberdeen for a while.

[Madbadteacher]

Does McGhee nae realise with an interview like that he is now almost totally unemployable as a manager anywhere in the UK?

[dave_min]

Does McGhee nae realise with an interview like that he is now almost totally unemployable as a manager anywhere in the UK?

 

Nun ist es ein Glück, dass er praktiziert seit seinem Deutsch dann

[baggy89]

Does McGhee nae realise with an interview like that he is now almost totally unemployable as a manager anywhere in the UK?

 

That's not his fault though  .

[CtS]

To give just one very basic and non-footballing example the level of casual (and I suppose overt) racism I have come across since returning to the north-east last year is really quite despairing in a city where you would think that oil money would attract intelligent minds.  And therein lies the problem.  The oil money has not bought intelligence.  It has bought Range Rovers, labradoodles, overpriced 3 bedroom semis in Elrick for £300k and season tickets for Pittodrie.  Aberdeen has become that most American of cities - insular, self-serving, quietly arrogant and vocally suspicious of outsiders.  If anyone doesn't like that description then it's maybe because they are one of them.

 

Knob off you weegie cunt.

 

 

[tlg1903]

Yes, I would probably say that he is moreso oblivious to it rather than actively promotes or condones it.  He is a man who believes in hard work and profit and less so the means of how to engender internal working relationships.

 

Aberdeen FC has to represent the north east of Scotland.  The north east has plenty of things to shout about, but it has never been good at shouting about it.  Acceptance and self-consciousness are two extremely common and prevalent north-eastern character traits.  I think it comes about from being geographically remote and yet increasingly self-sufficient given the economic strength of the area.  But with that comes suspicion of different methods from other areas.

 

To give just one very basic and non-footballing example the level of casual (and I suppose overt) racism I have come across since returning to the north-east last year is really quite despairing in a city where you would think that oil money would attract intelligent minds.  And therein lies the problem.  The oil money has not bought intelligence.  It has bought Range Rovers, labradoodles, overpriced 3 bedroom semis in Elrick for £300k and season tickets for Pittodrie.  Aberdeen has become that most American of cities - insular, self-serving, quietly arrogant and vocally suspicious of outsiders.  If anyone doesn't like that description then it's maybe because they are one of them.  The man who typifies these traits is the chairman of our beloved football club.  He is a clever man and a wealthy man but he is not an intelligent one.

 

i agree 100%  with this. 

[Kowalski]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/3891800/Only-my-church-kept-me-sane-as-McGhee-drove-me-mental.html

 

ABERDEEN reject Jerel Ifil became so sick of life under Mark McGhee he turned to prayer to keep his sanity.

 

Christian Ifil was stunned by McGhee's weekend rant in which he criticised everyone at Pittodrie — from chairman Stewart Milne and the players to the RECEPTIONIST.

 

The axed boss blamed them all for his dismal failure at the club between June 2009 and December 2010 — where in his only full season in charge the team finished a depressing ninth.

 

It was the first time in four years Aberdeen had failed to make the top six.

 

The hapless McGhee — part of the idolised Cup Winners Cup team of 1983 — also served up the club's worst-ever Euro home defeat PLUS the record 9-0 loss to Celtic in November 2010. In all, the Dons won just 13 SPL games in his charge.

 

Yet McGhee refused to concede he was to blame for anything.

 

That was just too much for stopper Ifil to stomach — and last night he was only too happy to give SunSport another version of events.

 

McGhee lured the Englishman north in August 2009, on a free transfer from Swindon Town.

 

Ifil talked his wife into making the trek north — buoyed by what he felt then was a manager who totally believed in him.

 

Little over a year later, though, he was left feeling McGhee had made him a SCAPEGOAT.

 

Ifil — who left the Dons by mutual consent in January this year and is now at non-league Kettering Town — said: "Personally, I felt let down by the manager.

 

"I was committed to Aberdeen — but I just felt he used me as a scapegoat. I didn't enjoy that.

 

"I would work ten times harder than anyone else to get back into the team. I'd go in on days off.But it didn't matter to him.

 

"I talked to my wife about it and the rest of my family.

 

"We are family-orientated people and everyone we were close to was back south.

 

"We felt we had to leave. But in the beginning we believed going to Aberdeen was a big chance for us. My wife got a job and everything seemed good.

 

"At one point we had one of the best defensive records outwith Celtic and Rangers.

 

"But I was taken out of the team. I know I am a good player. I tried my hardest for Aberdeen. But some people don't see that.

 

"The last six months or so of McGhee's spell were desperate.

 

"He gave up on me. It was hard for me to go home thinking the manager and the assistant manager didn't seem to like me.

 

"But I found a good church in Aberdeen, the Christian Outreach Centre. I'm a big Christian man — and faith played a big part in keeping me sane.

 

"What Mark McGhee has said about the club isn't right. It's wrong for him to be criticising people who had nothing to do with the team, like the receptionist or other people behind the scenes. I'm disappointed about that. I met nothing but decent people at the club and they couldn't have made me and my family feel more welcome. They were so friendly and did everything they could to help us settle.

 

"Everything about Aberdeen Football Club when I first came I liked. McGhee signed me and I really looked forward to going to Aberdeen. It was a big, big move for me and my wife. But I felt it would be good for the both of us.

 

"However, the football set-up under McGhee ended up being NOTHING like what I expected.

 

"As a professional player I just didn't feel we did enough.

 

"I hear he has criticised the players for supposedly not wanting to train on a Sunday.

 

"But every player I was involved with at Aberdeen had a willingness to work. It was a hard-working squad, I'll say that. And some players, including me, were more than willing to do more.

 

"But a lot of the time we were left after training with a feeling of 'Is that IT, is that ALL?'. It was unfortunate things didn't go the way he'd have liked. But that's football. Sometimes you've got to hold your hands up and admit mistakes. Players have to do it and managers have to be the same.

 

"You have to be humble in football sometimes. Arrogance isn't something that gets you far in life. Confidence is one thing, but arrogance is another.

 

"If McGhee believes that it was everyone else apart from him and his management, then that's unfortunate.

 

"I actually wish Craig Brown had been the manager — not McGhee — when I joined Aberdeen.

 

"I'm certain I would have done a lot better in his kind of enviroment.

 

"He came in after McGhee, but by then it was too late for me.

 

"I was way too far down the pecking order. I had to go." Aberdeen provided McGhee with the platform to make his name in football back in 1978 and for six fairytale years under Alex Ferguson he savoured sensational domestic and Euro glory.

 

But now there's only bitterness towards the club after he was finally deservedly dumped in December last year.

 

McGhee whinged about not feeling any warmth within Pittodrie towards him.

 

That players 'resented' him. That the fans left him feeling 'isolated.'

 

But Ifil — 51 appearances for the Dons — doesn't recognise the Aberdeen FC that McGhee's described.

 

He said: "Things didn't work out for me as I'd hoped. In the end I had to leave.

 

"But in terms of the club, and the people in the offices at the ground, they were brilliant.

 

"We made friends in the city and we've kept in touch."

[Tyrant]

Maybe explains how Ifil started out so well. Then McGhee's management made him go backwards.

[BigAl]

Maybe explains how Ifil started out so well. Then McGhee's management made him go backwards.

 

Remember reading from Swindon fans when he signed for us, that Ifil was a confidence player. When high on it was a fairly competent enough no nonsense defender, but when low on it, became an absolute bombscare.

In reality that was pretty much how it panned out for him with us under McGhee. If the fans knew it, surely the management team should have known it and constantly worked on building up his confidence rather than destroying it

[Tyrant]

Remember reading from Swindon fans when he signed for us, that Ifil was a confidence player. When high on it was a fairly competent enough no nonsense defender, but when low on it, became an absolute bombscare.

In reality that was pretty much how it panned out for him with us under McGhee. If the fans knew it, surely the management team should have known it and constantly worked on building up his confidence rather than destroying it

 

 

Aye but for that we'd need a fundamentally competent management team and we were missing that.

[rocket_scientist]

Yes, I would probably say that he is moreso oblivious to it rather than actively promotes or condones it.  He is a man who believes in hard work and profit and less so the means of how to engender internal working relationships.

 

Aberdeen FC has to represent the north east of Scotland.  The north east has plenty of things to shout about, but it has never been good at shouting about it.  Acceptance and self-consciousness are two extremely common and prevalent north-eastern character traits.  I think it comes about from being geographically remote and yet increasingly self-sufficient given the economic strength of the area.  But with that comes suspicion of different methods from other areas.

 

To give just one very basic and non-footballing example the level of casual (and I suppose overt) racism I have come across since returning to the north-east last year is really quite despairing in a city where you would think that oil money would attract intelligent minds.  And therein lies the problem.  The oil money has not bought intelligence.  It has bought Range Rovers, labradoodles, overpriced 3 bedroom semis in Elrick for £300k and season tickets for Pittodrie.  Aberdeen has become that most American of cities - insular, self-serving, quietly arrogant and vocally suspicious of outsiders.  If anyone doesn't like that description then it's maybe because they are one of them.  The man who typifies these traits is the chairman of our beloved football club.  He is a clever man and a wealthy man but he is not an intelligent one.

Excellent post. Having lived 15 years overseas and 9 years elsewhere in Scotland outside the North East, I recognise the absolute truth of what you say.

 

I call it parochialism but I would argue strongly that it is NOT unique to the North East but is, in fact, part of the human condition.

 

I would also caution that within your post, "intelligence" is not a simple quality that can be singularly defined. Your inference is that to be tolerant is to be intelligent and that to be intolerant is to be unintelligent. Intellectual intelligence is totally different from emotional intelligence. The "intelligence" required to make money, the "intelligence" required to take control of an institution, the "intelligence" required to get others to follow you with unwavering loyalty, the "intelligence" to understand the system and make it work for your own objectives - these are all obviously qualities that Milne has in spades. Doesn't make him a nice person. These aspects contribute to his overall to make him a total cunt but the one thing he isn't is unintelligent, simply by virtue that he may be parochial.

 

 

[BigAl]

 

Aye but for that we'd need a fundamentally competent management team and we were missing that.

 

Exactly.

 

Found his comments regarding Brown interesting considering it was him that let him go

[Tyrant]

Exactly.

 

Found his comments regarding Brown interesting considering it was him that let him go

 

 

Aye, same. I guess he knew that he was a long way from his best and understood that AFC couldn't afford to keep him whilst his confidence was slowly rebuilt.

 

Whether Ifil's career will ever recover from mark McGhee remains very much in doubt. Very sad really.

[rocket_scientist]

Ifil's debut was impressive despite the fact we were 3-0 down at home at HT. I heard that he looked strong too against Hull (I think it was) in a pre-season game. He was hard in the tackle and committed, if quite obviously unable to pass.

 

Then it all went downhill rapido. His first game was his best game, and we still got humped.

 

He is a shocking footballer, as his current position might suggest. I didn't know he was a Christian but any half-competent manager - which McGhee was not, like EVERY other manager recruited by Milne - dealing with a religious freak should know that mentally, they are different by the very fact that they believe in that shit, the sheep looking for guidance from the shepherd, the weak needing a crutch.

 

A good manager would not seek to take the self-righteous, up-his-own-arse expert position that McGhee obviously did. He would seek to understand what makes his players tick. Personally, I would be very wary of any religious type in the first place but these sensitive wee souls, these poor wee lambs need mollycoddled. Confidence player was right but it was also an admission of mental weakness. He was a bombscare disaster at AFC and he can fuck right off with his woe-is-me shite, stupid bible-bashing cunt.

 

I do thank him for his present comments though. He's adding more hearsay and circumstantial evidence to the ever-growing enlightenment that McGhee was, and is by virtue of his Calderwoodesque whinging after the event, thick as fuck and a very shite man-manager. Another nail in the coffin lid of a former legend, a man on whom due diligence at the right time may have revealed that he was never the right man.

 

 

 

 

[mizer]

I heard that he looked strong too against Hull (I think it was) in a pre-season game.

 

Having watched us ship 8 goals with Staurt Duff being played at the back against Olomouc - having Ifil in there seemed to make a difference along with us winning the game. Also most people at that game were pretty banjoed.

[Kowalski]

Calderwood never seems to have a bad word to say about the city or the people. Still wanting answers over his sacking though:

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2011/10/25/ex-aberdeen-boss-jimmy-calderwood-slams-successor-mark-mcghee-over-his-dons-slur-86908-23513312/

[Tyrant]

Calderwood never seems to have a bad word to say about the city or the people. Still wanting answers over his sacking though:

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2011/10/25/ex-aberdeen-boss-jimmy-calderwood-slams-successor-mark-mcghee-over-his-dons-slur-86908-23513312/

 

 

Was away to post that.

 

I wish Willie Miller would just fucking tell him! Are our board really that spineless? JC and WM are meant to be mates FFS fuck sake.

 

It's nice to read Jimmy's comments. I'm not sure what McGhee was thinking doing this interview. Everyone was always going to go running to the press with counter stories.

[CtS]

Agree with Tyrant, not sure what McGhee hoped to achieve out of all this ... publicity maybe?

 

He's come out of it looking like even more of a twat now, many dons fans (myself included) were sad to see a legend fail so miserably on his return to the club, but all sympathy has now gone.

 

Oh, and JISG is still God.

[rocket_scientist]

Whoa people. McGhee made himself look like a twat in the interview but he is being misquoted by the stirring wos media and a thick inept ex-manager is fuelling this non-story grow legs by responding to it and thick readers are in danger of getting it all out of kilter, including believing the unbelievable.

 

If you don't know why he was sacked, then you're not AFC but don't for fucks sake come out with the just tell him shite. Just because the fat cunt wanted to take wages at our expense for as long as he could when it's clear nae other cunt wants him and never did, don't start believing the shite he speaks. He got sacked, He got telt why at the time. He didn't agree with it. Maybe he didn't see it coming because of his delusions of self but I aint having this.