Scottish Independence

[Superstar Tradesman]

The first thing we should do when gain independance is build a big fuck-off water pipeline down through the centre of England.  Any time they hit us with bollocks like BBC subscriptions and such, we turn the taps off and plunge them all into a state of panic where they can no longer wash their cars and water their English country gardens.

 

See, I can do scaremongering too. 

 

Desperate stuff indeed.

[glasgow sheep]

The first thing we should do when gain independance is build a big fuck-off water pipeline down through the centre of England.  Any time they hit us with bollocks like BBC subscriptions and such, we turn the taps off and plunge them all into a state of panic where they can no longer wash their cars and water their English country gardens.

 

See, I can do scaremongering too. 

 

Desperate stuff indeed.

 

Coincidentally there was an article about this in the Sunday Herald at the weekend which suggested it would be too expensive to do this, like the idea though

[Superstar Tradesman]

Coincidentally there was an article about this in the Sunday Herald at the weekend which suggested it would be too expensive to do this, like the idea though

 

The Romans managed to re-route water all over Europe.  There's a lot to be said for slave labour.  We'll get all the gypos and benefit cheats out doing it.

 

We'll call it the Raoul Moat.

 

Vote ST!

[Madbadteacher]

The Romans managed to re-route water all over Europe.  There's a lot to be said for slave labour.  We'll get all the gypos and benefit cheats out doing it.

 

We'll call it the Raoul Moat.

 

Vote ST!

 

Can we no get Caledonia's immigrant friends to buid it? Start in Scotland work their way south and, whilst they're at it rebuild Hadrian's wall from the other side when they get there?

[Superstar Tradesman]

[Kowalski]

Salmond seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place.  Try and force through a currency Union and be governed by the Bank of England, or go with the Euro which is a shambles.  Perhaps they'll come up with their own currency?

 

I suspect the decision on the currency, which absolutely has to be crystal clear before the vote, could be the clincher for many.

[Superstar Tradesman]

I don't see what the fuss is about?

 

If we vote No then The Bank of England will govern the pound regardless.

 

If we vote Yes and keep the pound then The Bank of England will govern the pound.

 

What's the difference?

[Kowalski]

I don't see what the fuss is about?

 

If we vote No then The Bank of England will govern the pound regardless.

 

If we vote Yes and keep the pound then The Bank of England will govern the pound.

 

What's the difference?

 

Not according to the treasury, there is no deal on a currency union at the moment.

 

But as you say there would be no difference, we wouldn't be an independent country either way.

[Andrew]

Not according to the treasury, there is no deal on a currency union at the moment.

 

But as you say there would be no difference, we wouldn't be an independent country either way.

 

Do you believe that France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Austria, Belgium etc. are not independent countries as they do not have a central bank in their country?

[dave_min]

I doubt it would be a deal breaker for me, but I don't think a "currency union" is the best way forward.

[Kowalski]

Do you believe that France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Austria, Belgium etc. are not independent countries as they do not have a central bank in their country?

 

You don't understand the difference between having your currency run by another country, than run by a union of countries of which you are a member of?

[mizer]

Not according to the treasury, there is no deal on a currency union at the moment.

 

But as you say there would be no difference, we wouldn't be an independent country either way.

 

The reports which was specially revealed for the Westminster 3 to have their PR stunt, only says currently no evidence that it would work. Nothing about it not being able to work. Nothing will be crystal clear as Westminster wont allow it.

[scunnered999]

The reports which was specially revealed for the Westminster 3 to have their PR stunt, only says currently no evidence that it would work. Nothing about it not being able to work. Nothing will be crystal clear as Westminster wont allow it.

 

but even when they do explain it, Salmon's greets that he's being bullied. The situation is crystal clear. If you go independent, you can use the pound if you want, but the Lender of last resort will not be the BoE. If you're prepared to live with the risks that entails then vote Yes, otherwise vote No. Third option is of course for those that can't be arsed just don't vote

[Andrew]

You don't understand the difference between having your currency run by another country, than run by a union of countries of which you are a member of?

 

You could also argue that a lot of countries have very little influence over the European central bank. Greece, with high inflation, needs higher interest rates which just isn't going to happen. If Scotland votes no and our economy, for whatever reason, drastically changes from the rUK do you really think the bank of England will care? The UK government was quick to sell off our fishing rights to join the EU and recently close to sabotaging are relationship with the EU to protect London from a Tobin tax. 

 

Anyway I still think the Euro is the best way to go. Easier to trade with Europe, it mitigates some of your systematic risk due to trade being with europe so exchange rates don't matter as much and also the main point people have against it with not being able to set your own interest rates shouldn't really effect Scotland anyway. It is designed for economically mature western democracies. Currency unions work with economies that are the same. I may be wrong in my assessment but Ireland while under the euro is still possibly twice as rich as Scotland is and was the first eurozone country out of recession.

[tom_widdows]

The current situation puts me in mind of a stroppy teenager bitching & moaning about not being able to do anything and demanding their own independence from the tyranny of their parents.

However when they do move out of the family home they continue to come back to have their laundry done, get food, scrounge extra cash for bills etc.

 

 

[Nellie The Don]

The current situation puts me in mind of a stroppy teenager bitching & moaning about not being able to do anything and demanding their own independence from the tyranny of their parents.

However when they do move out of the family home they continue to come back to have their laundry done, get food, scrounge extra cash for bills etc.

 

This is based on the principle that it's rUk's washing machine/food/bank account in the first place, and that Scotland is being 'looked after' by a benevolent patriarchal figure who, despite the 'tough love' has our best interests at heart.

 

It puts me more in mind of an abused spouse being told "Sure, you can leave, but you'll be on the street because the mortgage is in my name"

 

[tom_widdows]

This is based on the principle that it's rUk's washing machine/food/bank account in the first place, and that Scotland is being 'looked after' by a benevolent patriarchal figure who, despite the 'tough love' has our best interests at heart.

 

It puts me more in mind of an abused spouse being told "Sure, you can leave, but you'll be on the street because the mortgage is in my name"

 

I don't see your point on this one Nellie.

I'll admit I havent been concentrating on this too much as I'm finding the whole thing really tedious but I cant recall england, wales and NI stating they will take away anything that actually belongs to Scotland. If I have missed this please fill me in.

 

Salmond and Co seem to one minute be going on about 'OUR north sea oil, Our renewables ' then turning round and saying 'Lets share the pound' by the way'.

What else will they then spend weeks harping on about 'we will be independent...but it makes sense if we share this with you guys'?

 

Will it be the Armed forces?

Will it be the DVLA?

Will it be the GNER?

Will it be Passports?

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a few months down the line if they start saying it makes more sense for all the income tax to continue to go to Westminster and the Barnet Formula to stay intact which may of course lead to 'ok lets just have more devolved powers'

 

you are either independent or you are not and I think Salmond is starting to shit himself.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nellie The Don]

I don't see your point on this one Nellie.

I'll admit I havent been concentrating on this too much as I'm finding the whole thing really tedious but I cant recall england, wales and NI stating they will take away anything that actually belongs to Scotland. If I have missed this please fill me in.

 

Salmond and Co seem to one minute be going on about 'OUR north sea oil, Our renewables ' then turning round and saying 'Lets share the pound' by the way'.

What else will they then spend weeks harping on about 'we will be independent...but it makes sense if we share this with you guys'?

 

Will it be the Armed forces?

Will it be the DVLA?

Will it be the GNER?

Will it be Passports?

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a few months down the line if they start saying it makes more sense for all the income tax to continue to go to Westminster and the Barnet Formula to stay intact which may of course lead to 'ok lets just have more devolved powers'

 

you are either independent or you are not and I think Salmond is starting to shit himself.

 

The bank of England belongs, in part, to Scotland.  The fact that it is currently administered from Westminster doesn't make it an English asset.  Your characterisation of Scotland as being a 'petulant teenager', provided for, in this case in terms of borrowing power, by the UK allowing us to use their bank is erroneous.

 

Personally, I'm fine with Scotland foregoing a share of it, though. I would prefer to see us use our own currency, however.  We'd start debt free and, being a net exporter, would in a very short time have a surplus of foreign currency with which to underpin our own national reserve bank.

[manc_don]

The bank of England belongs, in part, to Scotland.  The fact that it is currently administered from Westminster doesn't make it an English asset.  Your characterisation of Scotland as being a 'petulant teenager', provided for, in this case in terms of borrowing power, by the UK allowing us to use their bank is erroneous.

 

Personally, I would prefer to see us use our own currency, however.  We'd start debt free and, being a net exporter, would in a very short time have a surplus of foreign currency with which to underpin our own national reserve bank.

 

I find that incredibly implausible.  The debt may be the UK's but I doubt Westminster nor any of the other countries allow Scotland to get away with that.

[Nellie The Don]

I find that incredibly implausible.  The debt may be the UK's but I doubt Westminster nor any of the other countries allow Scotland to get away with that.

 

In what sense 'not allow'? 

 

All three unionist party finance spokesmen have thrown away any bargaining chips they had by refusing to negotiate over ownership of the central bank.

 

The bank, currency and debt are inextricably linked.

[dave_min]

you are either independent or you are not and I think Salmond is starting to shit himself.

 

I disagree with this.

 

I recon he's trying to appeal to the middle third of voters who are undecided and he's trying to persuade them onto full independence by pitching devo max.

 

Those supporters of Independence are gonna back it regardless of what he says, it's not them he's trying to win over. He's also not trying to win over those stick-on No voters, they're a lost cause (for him).

 

It's those in the middle that can be persuaded that he wants on board, and it appears to be working (despite the fact that it's mostly bollocks he's spouting).

[Andrew]

I don't see your point on this one Nellie.

I'll admit I havent been concentrating on this too much as I'm finding the whole thing really tedious but I cant recall england, wales and NI stating they will take away anything that actually belongs to Scotland. If I have missed this please fill me in.

 

Salmond and Co seem to one minute be going on about 'OUR north sea oil, Our renewables ' then turning round and saying 'Lets share the pound' by the way'.

What else will they then spend weeks harping on about 'we will be independent...but it makes sense if we share this with you guys'?

 

Will it be the Armed forces?

Will it be the DVLA?

Will it be the GNER?

Will it be Passports?

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a few months down the line if they start saying it makes more sense for all the income tax to continue to go to Westminster and the Barnet Formula to stay intact which may of course lead to 'ok lets just have more devolved powers'

 

you are either independent or you are not and I think Salmond is starting to shit himself.

 

Should it not be Scotland's pound just as much as it's is Englands? I think it shows how little contempt the UK parties have for Scotland saying we can not use our own currency.

[scunnered999]

Should it not be Scotland's pound just as much as it's is Englands? I think it shows how little contempt the UK parties have for Scotland saying we can not use our own currency.

 

They're not saying Scotland can't use the pound. They're just stating the fact that the lender of last resort would not be the BoE.

[Andrew]

They're not saying Scotland can't use the pound. They're just stating the fact that the lender of last resort would not be the BoE.

 

I am not that clued up on this but with such intertwined economies is that not cutting off your nose to spite your face behavior from rUK? For instance if HBOS, RBS etc. were to go bust that would affect a lot of account holders and shareholders in rUK.

[baggy89]

They're not saying Scotland can't use the pound. They're just stating the fact that the lender of last resort would not be the BoE.

 

Why would that make a difference?

 

Personally I could not understand why keeping the pound was being proposed, as we would be subject to the BoE's interest rates. Which to my mind makes it Devo-Max, but I suppose Dave's thoughts make sense.

 

The Irish had a currency union for 50 odd years following their independence. The Channel Islanders currently do. Proof within the British Isles that it can work and if you want the ultimate proof look at the Swiss and the Lichtensteiners. 

 

Certainly it makes sense in the short term, as it would have provided stability for trade and investment on both sides of the border. I can't help but think the move is so stupid that Salmond had not prepared for it. Really he should just have said not a problem, Pound Scots it is.

 

These are all minor issues, really, in the grand scheme of things. Truly the only important question is "do you want to be in control of your own destiny?". It is interesting that the debate has moved on very quickly from the Scots would be too poor and too stupid to get themselves out of trouble to "we're going to make it as awkward as possible for you to make a success of it, and you will be too poor and too stupid to get yourselves out of trouble". I'm not sure if it's more or less patronising.

 

As an aside, what happens to the value of the GBP if all Scotland's gilts are removed  from the BoE especially if the largest percentage of future oil & gas revenue is removed at the same time?