Kowalski Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Sounds like Ross County will be at the next vote, not Dunfermilne or Hibs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Sounds like Ross County will be at the next vote, not Dumfermilne or Hibs. Well Ross County have amazingly managed pretty well without ever playing Rangers so perhaps that's one more vote on the side of good we can count on. Given Rangers could still be in administration with no cva, newco or anything else sorted for some time, any idea when it's is deemed to be the new season? Is it from kick off of the first game or is it some other point during the summer? Presumably at this point rangers have to be able to make some kind of guarantee they can complete fixtures, and if still in Admin will be due another -10pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Not often I'd suggest we should have followed uefa but this seems like the right idea: However, the administrators acknowledge that European football governing body Uefa would not make any distinction between the old and new companies and that a newco Rangers would be barred from playing European football for three years. The Uefa stance is clear and unequivocal on how it treats any newco created to shield a football team from any financial or regulatory ills experienced by the organisation from which it sprang. “If a club sets up a new company simply to avoid paying its debts or obligations then they would almost certainly fail the three-year rule [for obtaining the required Uefa licence],” a spokesperson for Uefa told The Scotsman. “This is to ensure clubs do not simply create a ‘newco’ and leave the previous entity in charge of dealing with debts.” Previously, Uefa have made the following statement pertaining to newcos: “Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and, consequently, three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence. In other words, the three-year rule is designed basically to avoid circumvention of the club licensing system.” http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-rangers-squad-could-move-straight-to-newco-1-2273459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Could that same rule apply to the organisation that the club presides in? say UEFA & FIFA act if the SPL clubs dont. would other clubs in Scotland be effected or is it just aimed at the club level No Folk have been debating this on P&B and there seems that there is no requirement to have a UEFA licence to play in the SPL so Newco could play in the spl but would have no Euro football for 3years. UEFA require it for European football but there are ways round it in domestic football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Pinch of salt required but there's a few rumours circulating on Twitter that the Tims will signal their intent to quit the SPL if newco are allowed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Pinch of salt required but there's a few rumours circulating on Twitter that the Tims will signal their intent to quit the SPL if newco are allowed in. No chance. None. Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 No chance. None. Zero. That would be my point of view too. They stand to lose the most without o/f doubled up voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 It's deid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Bobby Clark Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Is there any chance that someone in the SPL team investigating the EBT/Double Contract issue had an off the record word with the Chairmen? Maybe suggested that, given the Huns' fans recent threatening behaviour to anyone they perceive as being anti-rapeepul, the Chairmen needn't make a decision because the evidence in the contract fraud is so compelling that the SPL will no choice but to impose enormous sanctions, strip them of trophies and relegate them, otherwise UEFA will impose sanctions on Scottish football. Or are they just bottling it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbadteacher Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Bottling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xGav8 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Read that 'accept' as 'expect' so I voted for them being allowed in with no sanctions. I would only accept Div.3 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandaldinho Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Miller has pulled out apparently??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfold Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 In 2002 ITV Digital's TV deal with the football league goes bust, the chief executive of a football league club warns: “If Granada and Carlton are allowed to escape their liability they will put at risk a very large number of Football League clubs. At Norwich we are budgeting for a £12m income next year, £2m of which is television money. Even if we receive that we are heading for a £2m loss – £4m would obviously be unsustainable.” But this executive's club didn't go bust, there was some financial unease but the lower leagues survived. And in an interview in 2009 this executive said: “At the time ITV Digital collapsed we had budgeted to receive £3million in TV money and ended up with a deal which brought in £1m so over a two-year spell we ended up with a £4m shortfall. “I can only speak from our experiences … and it was very difficult. “ “It was a difficult time but the clubs got through it at that time and I think they’re stronger for it.” And the name of this chief executive who was predicting the worst case scenario but in the aftermath now admits that clubs got through it and even made them better? None other then current SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentorred Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Miller has pulled out apparently??? Hope he cleaned up after himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbadteacher Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Ultimate punishment, let them be run my S Milne esq. That'll drain the life out of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 No relevant to NewCo but surely the SPL/SFL should be looking at similar rules to the Football League in England which were passed last month: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/championship-clubs-agree-to-financial-fair-play-rules-7678721.html Championship clubs have voted in favour of introducing a groundbreaking new financial fair play model, the Football League announced today. All but three of the npower Championship's 24 clubs voted in favour of introducing the model, which is based on UEFA's financial fair play regulations, and plans to curb Football League debt by limiting investment from owners and total spending. Football League research has revealed that the 72 clubs that form the Championship, League One and League Two are on course to rack up a combined £2billion of debt unless spending and investment from 'sugar daddy' owners is curbed. The regulations will be introduced next season on a gradual basis, but sanctions for non-compliance will not be put in place until the 2014-15 season. Under the regulations, from the 2014-15 season, clubs who record total losses of over £6million will be hit with either a transfer embargo or a fine that could run in to the millions. The club in question will be fined if they are promoted to the Barclays Premier League and will be hit with a transfer embargo if they remain in the Championship. Owners will be allowed to invest £6million next season, £5million the following and £3million the following season. Financial losses per season will also be curbed under the new regulations. Clubs will be allowed to record a £4million loss next season, £3million per season for the next two campaigns, and £2million per season from 2015-16 onwards. The money generated from any fine imposed will be shared among the clubs in the Championship who are compliant with the regulations. The initiative is seen as an important step to stopping Football League clubs going bust. Earlier this season Portsmouth went into administration and Football League chairman Greg Clarke predicts several clubs will go out of business if this scheme is not adopted. The Football League have been consulting with the Premier League and the FA, and are confident the initiative will get the official backing of both bodies. The scheme applies to the Championship only, but League One and League Two already have initiatives to make them more financially sound. League Two clubs are already allowed to spend 55% of turnover on wages and a similar scheme will be introduced to League One next season after a successful pilot scheme this term. Any League One club spending over 65% of their turnover in the 2012-13 season, or 60% of their turnover in the 2013-14 season will be hit with a transfer embargo. Clarke said: "On the pitch we have three exciting, competitive divisions with crowds at their highest levels for 50 years. But that success isn't necessarily being reflected on our clubs' balance sheets and we have to remedy that situation or face an uncertain future. "I'd like to commend the Championship clubs for the courageous decision they have taken today. "It means that for the first time, all 72 Football League clubs have agreed to take concerted action towards controlling their financial destiny. "Whilst we cannot promise that these rules will deliver results overnight, they will begin to lay the foundations for a league of financially self-sustaining football clubs." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Sadly GS, I think you're assuming too much of our football governing bodies. I have no confidence in them whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Sadly GS, I think you're assuming too much of our football governing bodies. I have no confidence in them whatsoever. I said they should be looking at this (and with some of their fair play proposals are addressing similar issues (not paying wages, not paying tax), I didn't say they would be doing this however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Dear Sir/Madam I would very much appreciate a response to this email, in particular to the question of how you plan to compensate for the missing millions when 50% of the support doesn't come back. Thank you for your time and look forward to your reply Your sincerely You ever get a reply? I'm busy working on a letter to send of to pittodrie. Is turning into a bit of an epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Dear Mr Milne As a Season Ticket holder for many years and a member of a Supporters Club I felt that I should write to you to express my views and concerns on the unfolding drama in Scottish Football. Firstly can I say that I applaud the fact that as a club nobody has come out and commented on this story, unlike a number of others, at numerous SPL Clubs, who should have known better. The constant barrage of scare mongering, misinformation and propaganda that has been produced on this subject does nobody in Scottish Football or Scotland as a nation any credit. I now feel, however, that it is important for me to highlight how I and many of my friends and fellow supporters feel with regards to the current situation surrounding Rangers FC and the potential of a NewCo being allowed back into the SPL. For any club that goes into Administration it is important that there are severe sanctions to punish the club for what is essentially Financial Doping. The 10pt penalty currently in place is a start, and I broadly agree with the sanctions suggested by the SPL in their Financial Fair Play Proposals with regards to point penalties based on the previous season's totals. Ever since Motherwell effectively got away with cheating out of millions of pounds of debt accumulated when others were balancing the books it has been important to have sufficient sanctions in place to punish those sides that cheat the system in this manner. The Fair Play Proposals are a significant step to this end. Although the SPL Proposals go so far in addressing Financial Doping and teams which enter administration I would encourage you to look at the new Football League Rules which aim to prevent teams from getting into such financial difficulty in the first place (link to Independent article http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/championship-clubs-agree-to-financial-fair-play-rules-7678721.html ). The Football League will be requiring Clubs to submit annual accounts and keep losses to a prescribed minimum. If this is exceeded teams will be sanctioned with either a transfer embargo or fine. Wage/Turnover limits are also being introduced. These measures combined should help avoid the situation the likes of Motherwell, Dundee and now Rangers find themselves in and Scottish Football must take action now to prevent more clubs meeting a similar fate. This, unfortunately, is all a bit “after the horse has bolted” and we are now faced with a much more pressing and significant issue. It goes without saying that any club that has cheated to such a degree that they cannot exit Administration in the usual manner, with a CVA, and are liquidated, cease to exist as the same historic club. Any club formed by that team’s fans, directors or others, should be viewed as a new club with no legal or footballing connection to the old Team. There is no way, therefore, that this team, this NewCo, should be allowed directly into any league, far less the SPL. Such evasion of financial, legal, sporting and moral obligations would tarnish our League and Sport for years. Just because the team concerned is Rangers FC should not alter this, in fact if anything this should heighten the need to show complete sporting integrity. If a team can effectively cheat by paying wages it couldn't afford; allegedly make illegal payments to players on top of these wages; fail to pay PAYE and NI along with other Tax debts; and go on to dominate the sport for two decades as a result, only to then liquidate in order to avoid these collected debts and then be allowed straight back into the league purely on the basis that they are a “big team” then what is the point in the rest of us? What is the point in anyone paying their bills; What is the point trying to live within our means and balancing the books; What is the point in competing in a League where one Team can do what they like and then face no significant punishment; What is the point is respecting any rules if one Club gets to ignore them; What is the point when it appears the League is run solely for the benefit of one or two big Clubs? What is the point in paying £20+ every week to watch a rigged and morally corrupt league? The SPL would become a mockery. Scottish Football would become a joke and 1000s of fans would find some other way to spend their money each weekend. You will have seen the Independent Survey that asked Scottish Football fans their opinions on this matter, you will be aware of the Dons Supporters Together’s open letters on the subject and you will be aware (I hope) of the wider feeling amongst the Aberdeen FC Support. Any NewCo (and it looks increasingly likely there will be a NewCo in some form) must not be allowed back into the SPL. It will destroy any remaining sporting integrity the SPL may have and will cost the club significantly in lost ticket money as fans turn their back on a club and a league that are seen to bend over for the benefit of one club. This will not be a few seasons of lost revenue, this could an irreversible loss of fans and support for our club. I quite understand the concerns over the loss of the Rangers travelling support for one (or two) games per season and a possible reduction in TV revenue. But it would not take much for a lot of this lost revenue to be replaced by an increase in home support, especially in a more competitive league. I would also suggest that in any case any such financial hit in the short term is a hit worth taking to up hold sporting integrity, to maintain the support of the fans for the Club and for Scottish Football, and to ensure a viable, competitive and just league. I say again, the wrong decision now could have far more significant long term consequences for Aberdeen FC and for Scottish Football than just a drop in revenue. Finally this provides a once in a lifetime chance to reform the top of Scottish Football. The SPL has killed competitive football at the top of the game in Scotland and has long been seen to exist purely to service the European ambitions of the top two clubs. Whether Rangers are liquidated or exit administration through a CVA this is a chance to re-balance the game, re-calibrate the finances and to make Scottish Football more equitable, democratic and fair. I trust the AFC board will consider the above and make an informed decision based on sporting integrity, justice and fairness which in the long term will be for the good of Aberdeen Football Club and Scottish Football as a whole. Don’t vote to allow a NewCo back into the SPL. Yours faithfully Glasgow Sheep (Hopefully still) Season Ticket Holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well said GS. And more importantly, well written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well said GS and very eloquent. I would thoroughly hope that the club take heed of this because I do feel it is how the majority of fans feel. Fingers crossed you get a reply, though having emailed the club in the past, they only respond to positive emails hopefully im wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well said, although, there's not the slightest doubt in my mind that the club will point blank ignore it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Very well said gs, I'm sure you will be stunned to hear i haven't heard anything back from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Btw, GS did you send it to Dave mcdermid directly? He's the best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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