How to Punish NewCo

[mizer]

[CtS]

 

And I'll vote with my feet.  Ram it.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

And I'll vote with my feet.  Ram it.

 

Seconded.

 

Fucking carve up of hellish proportions. Scottish football is dead and populated by administrators acting out of cowardice. Rangers are getting out of this Scot free and it makes me sick. It makes it all the more nauseating to think we are complicit in it.

[Madbadteacher]

What a fucking joke Scottish football is! 

 

Or should that be "of football"?

 

Is there no way to mount a legal challenge in the courts if this act of barefaced theft/cheating goes unpunished?

[maverick sheep]

as an aside, scottish BBC sports journos were saying yesterday that new bbc guidelines forbid them replying to or re-tweeting anything a member of the public aks/says to them. This was then said to be bollocks from an english journo.

 

Basically, expect even more succulence.

[glasgow sheep]

So say there is a NewCo, and say they are demoted to the lower leagues somewhere.

Would that encourage more folk to go along to Pittodrie next season than went along this seaon, regardless of how shit or otherwise we are playing? Showing support for our club standing upto the scum and taking a financial hit?

 

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Don't really think that's so much the issue as much as the Huns buying players they can't afford, paying wages they can't afford, doing both illegally, then avoiding paying the resultant debt and not facing any sanction from one of the major regulatory bodies.

 

Where is the point?

 

Do you think the same latitude would be afforded to us?

 

Like fuck it would.

 

They fucking cheated and scammed their way to cups and titles telling every cunt in Scotland it was our fucking fault they weren't able to compete in Europe and first chance they got they were Joe the Toff.

 

Clearly a special case. Offended by everything ashamed of nothing, a phrase that could probably readily apply to Scottish football administrators and, sadly, our own fucking board.

 

Again, where's the fucking point? One of the OF with all the money they have CHEAT like fuck and get caught and the SPL say fine??

 

Where's the point? Just give them the fucking trophy in perpetuity and maybe the tims can rob it off them occasionally, but this all falls into place for the Huns, it over. There's no fucking point anymore.

[CtS]

I'll be more inclined to go along next season if Aberdeen represent the majority of their fans and object to a new Rangers playing in the spl.  I'd be even more inclined if Milne treated the situation as an opportunity to challenge for 2nd, and showed clear intent to make Afc the 'best of the rest'.  The thought of a Rangers under 18 team finishing above us in the league is sickening.

 

 

[glasgow sheep]

Don't really think that's so much the issue as much as the Huns buying players they can't afford, paying wages they can't afford, doing both illegally, then avoiding paying the resultant debt and not facing any sanction from one of the major regulatory bodies.

 

Where is the point?

 

Do you think the same latitude would be afforded to us?

 

Like fuck it would.

 

They fucking cheated and scammed their way to cups and titles telling every cunt in Scotland it was our fucking fault they weren't able to compete in Europe and first chance they got they were Joe the Toff.

 

Clearly a special case. Offended by everything ashamed of nothing, a phrase that could probably readily apply to Scottish football administrators and, sadly, our own fucking board.

 

Again, where's the fucking point? One of the OF with all the money they have CHEAT like fuck and get caught and the SPL say fine??

 

Where's the point? Just give them the fucking trophy in perpetuity and maybe the tims can rob it off them occasionally, but this all falls into place for the Huns, it over. There's no fucking point anymore.

 

We paid wages we couldn't afford for years.  Dundee spent millions, Motherwell filled their team with ex-OF players on massive wages.  We cut our cloth, the other two didn't and cheated but "got away with it".

 

If we were in the same situation at the moment then we would have had a 10pt penalty and that would be it.  All the rest is just hypothesising. 

I would have hoped our admin would have actually tried to save some money by sacking folk etc and made some kind of progress but if we were waiting on the HMRC tribunal I suppose they would be fannying about like D&P are as well.

I dare say we would be getting plenty of abuse from other fans as the huns are getting but probably not the media love-in that rangers are, that would be the biggest difference.

 

If they get a CVA then they have had the punishment that was set down in the rules and that's it.  If the get a CVA fair play, those are the rules and they won't be the last.

If they liquidate then there should be further punishment.  That is a totally different ball game. All this talk of SPL assurances is just bullshit.  The SPL can barely agree when to meet never mind agree to give a blanket assurance to some Yank nobody has ever heard of.

 

Even if they stay in the SPL as a NewCo, which is far from certain, they will still have significant penalties. No europe for 1-3 years, likely points penalty and probably some limitations on signing players.  They certainly won't be "competitive" in the sense Sandy Jardine means.  That wouldn't be acceptable to most fans, nor me, but will still be an utter shitstorm compared to what rangers fans expect.

 

This Bill Miller will fuck off soon enough but even if he doesn't nobody is doing anything till HMRC slap down their fucking huge bill.

[glasgow sheep]

Channel 4 interview some D&P guy: My link

 

Hmmm I'm confused and maybe I was totally wrong.

If the oldco and newco co-exist who has the SPL share? 

What the fuck are oldco meant to use to "clean up" their finances?

Does Whyte not own all this stuff that is being transferred to NewCo, how does that work?

And why should anyone in the SPL be discussing potential penalties with the accused?  Does the judge have a chat with an accused fraudster about how his sentence will impact on his company?

[glasgow sheep]

This is getting silly:

 

More Alex Thomson gems:

Am told Bill Miller has no passport and has never seen a soccerball game, let alone one played by the Glasgow of Rangers

 

 

At least one key player say to me the Miller deal won't happen. It's desperate administrators trying to flush Miller out. That was direct quote from HMRC cleared via their lead officer on Rangers

[capitalsharpie]

This is getting silly:

 

More Alex Thomson gems:

 

Goody.

 

Therecwas a danger the fun of the huns going bust was being taken away.

[mizer]

This is getting silly:

 

More Alex Thomson gems:

 

That report was brilliant - his irreverence to Rangers is such a change to the sycophantic bullshit we are served normally! And yes the passport bit made me lol.

[baggy89]

This is getting silly:

 

More Alex Thomson gems:

 

I would have thought the ridiculous assurances his bid required from the  SPL, plus the illegality of his shell company proposal would have been enough effluent for the administrators to smell shite.

 

It's set up after set up to ensure they get to the end of the season (thus fulfilling their fixtures) so they can liquidate and reapply to the SPL in the close season.

[glasgowdon]

I would have thought the ridiculous assurances his bid required from the  SPL, plus the illegality of his shell company proposal would have been enough effluent for the administrators to smell shite.

 

It's set up after set up to ensure they get to the end of the season (thus fulfilling their fixtures) so they can liquidate and reapply to the SPL in the close season.

 

Correct.

 

If they can't fulfil their fixtures they will be relegated to Div 3 regardless of Newcos etc.

[tlg1903]

That report was brilliant - his irreverence to Rangers is such a change to the sycophantic bullshit we are served normally! And yes the passport bit made me lol.

indeed, for AT dealing with scottish meeedja must be reminiscent to having to observe corrupt media's in war torn countries.

 

 

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

We paid wages we couldn't afford, we still have that debt.

 

Motherwell probably did "get away with it" but given the extent to which the Huns have scammed titles and cups with illegal contracts, effectively being liquidated, non payment of taxes, non payment of transfer fee . . . you could go on, they took a 10 point hit which is only for entering admin, they are clearly due further, harsher penalties or as I said, where is the point?

[topcorner]

Kilmarnock chairman Michael Johnston

 

"We need more clarity on Bill Miller's plan for Rangers and how it will it structured.

 

"There is a feeling that member clubs see the commercial benefits of having Rangers in SPL, even if it is a newco.

 

"Member clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect but the commercial benefits outweigh that."

 

:hammer:

[mizer]

I posted the quote on twitter and @GrantAFC1903 had the best reply

 

well if that's the case it's no longer a sport.

 

[Sandaldinho]

does that mean both the Infirm can never be relegated?

 

[Kowalski]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/interview-john-yorkston-dumfermline-chairman-1-2278327

 

“Everyone agrees that there should be severe punishment but there are a number of chairmen who will look at the financial thing and say, ‘do we want an SPL without Rangers?’ It will be a question of sporting integrity against financial necessity. That is the choice facing chairmen.”

 

Yorkston’s view is no secret. He has already declared that a newco Rangers, if it ever comes into being, should be denied a share in the SPL. “That’s what I will be arguing for, but I do understand that others will look at the financial side, and that will have more sway than sporting integrity. I would guess I’ll be almost a lone voice, but it doesn’t stop me from having my say.”

 

“They’ve talked about leaving the league on numerous occasions, to England, the Atlantic League, the North Sea League, everything,” says Yorkston. “There is hardly six months go by when it doesn’t rear its head. To be honest, the rest of us are at the point where we’d quite like it. It would leave us with a competitive league. You’d probably be looking at about six or seven different clubs with a chance of winning the title. It would make for exciting football.”

 

“They are not [represented] because the majority of the media are west-coast based. If they didn’t have Rangers and Celtic to write about, they wouldn’t have a job. The media have a bias in favour of the Old Firm. That’s the reality. Fans of all non-Old Firm clubs would agree with that. I listen to fans. I don’t agree with everything they say but, when 85 per cent in a neutral survey say that they want a bigger league, when 95 or 96 per cent say that a newco should not be accepted, I listen to that. Half of those say they will not be back at games because the credibility will be lost. That worries me.”

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

John Yorkston in "not talking absolute garbage" shock!

 

His opinion is increasingly irrelevant though, he would be quite happy to ditch the huns given it would probably mean his mob stay in the SPL as a result.

[Kowalski]

The Scottish Premier League intends to cut a deal with Bill Miller, the American tycoon who is in the process of restructuring Rangers, in which the crucial SPL share transfer that is required for a "newco" Rangers will be rubber-stamped in return for two key guarantees.

 

According to the SPL sources, it is the SPL's intention to offer Miller and Rangers continued SPL status if Miller promises to pay off all outstanding Scottish football debts, and if he also agrees to accept whatever punishment an SPL investigation into Rangers' so-called "double-contracts" might produce. The Sunday Herald understands there would be no further sanctions on the newco Rangers.

 

SPL lawyers are currently investigating the club's use of Employment Benefit Trusts (EBTs). If their findings go against Rangers, the SPL will have to consider swingeing punishments for years of unlawful player contracts.

 

Miller, who has vowed to plough an initial £11.2 million into Rangers, will almost certainly create a newco and thus face the hurdle, under current SPL rules, of asking the governing body's six-man board to approve a share transfer from the soon-to-be-liquidated Rangers. (There are also suggestions that some of the board's members will push for that decision to be made by the 11 other SPL member clubs.) Without the transfer, the new Rangers would be unable to play in the SPL next season.

 

The club currently owes money to Dundee United and the Scottish Football Association, with a further payment due to Hearts in July – among other football debts – and the source said the SPL plans to grant Miller the share transfer if he guarantees the clearing of these debts.

 

On the issue of the EBTs, the punishment for a guilty verdict is potentially harmful for Rangers, but the SPL will also insist that Miller, in return for his new share, should accept the outcome.

 

The SPL clubs are due to vote tomorrow on two proposed rule-changes for a newco: one referring to points deductions, plus a second new rule which will recommend financial sanctions.

 

If the rules are passed, they would not take effect until after the end of the current season, which means Miller and Rangers will almost certainly be applying for a newco SPL share under the current code. That is, they will ask the SPL to approve the application.

 

The plan to accommodate Miller will trigger fierce objections across the Scottish game, and Neil Doncaster, the SPL's chief executive, yesterday distanced himself from the alleged strategy when contacted by the Sunday Herald.

 

He said: "All I can tell you is that the Rangers situation is highly complicated and sensitive.

 

"People always want to see things in black and white when, in fact, this situation is much more about shades of grey. There are some difficult and technical concepts in this whole scenario.

 

"Bill Miller is now the preferred bidder at Rangers. The process now is that we will have discussions with Bill and his team. And those discussions may result – may result – in Bill Miller applying for a transfer of the existing Rangers SPL share to a 'newco'.

 

"If that happens then the SPL board, under our existing rules, will have the job of sitting down and deciding whether to say yes or no to that application."

 

Asked if he and the SPL board were pre-ordained to save Rangers' SPL skin, Doncaster denied the suggestion.

 

"No, we are not," he replied. "Our job is much wider than that. It is to protect the interests of all 12 member clubs, as well as keep an eye on the best long-term interests of Scottish football. It is impossible to pre-judge the Bill Miller situation at Rangers, but what I've outlined to you is my long-term job.

 

"So far the SPL has only had very preliminary discussions with Bill Miller and his team. But I think more detailed discussions will take place over the coming weeks."

 

Doncaster claimed not to know what the outcome of tomorrow's votes would be on the proposed rule-changes. Under the new rules, a newco club would remain in the SPL but face severe points-related and financial sanctions.

 

"Some people have viewed these new proposals as somehow being Rangers-friendly," he said. "The reality is, first, these rules would apply to all 12 clubs if they were passed; and second, they would make for a much harder line than is the current SPL position.

 

"But whether these new rules are passed on Monday remains to be seen."

 

Doncaster also briefly touched on the SPL investigation into Rangers.

 

"We are in the middle of some detailed investigations about player payments allegedly made out-of-contract at Rangers and that investigation will continue," he said. "There will either be a prima facie case here against Rangers and it will be a disciplinary procedure, or there will be no prima facie case. I just don't know. The investigation is ongoing."

 

Meanwhile, it emerged last night that, whether Miller secures a Company Voluntary Agreement with Rangers or not in the coming weeks, the club will almost certainly be barred from European football for three years due to "structural changes" under Uefa guidelines, starting from next season.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Neil Doncaster is a thorough cunt. Never, ever thought anything else before now right enough, but really, what a complete cunt!

 

Reap what you sow ya dodgy barnetted prick. Keep the huns in by all means but they will have no cunt watching them except their own loyal fannies.

[Kowalski]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm emailing the club.

feedback@afc.co.uk

 

They have to know how supporters feel about this.