DT Politics Thread

[rocket_scientist]

The conservatives got their worst result since 1832.

 

Ok, this was MEP voting but the core Tory support is evaporating.

 

You can't take the piss for this long and expect to get away with it.

 

Unless the electorate are stupid.

 

Which they are/were in middle England and NE Scotland.

[rocket_scientist]

The beauty is that the Conservative party are facing their biggest humiliation ever.

 

Because none of her successors are electable.

 

They wheeled out many of the ten candidates to succeed May yesterday and they are laughably wrong.

 

Our own Gove, a NE loon, is mad. How he thinks the UK can vote him into office in a General Election is remarkable. Did he forget how unpopular he was up here? Does he think that career professional arselicking qualifies him for leadership?

 

Hunt and Hammond are also of the same non-alpha male public schoolboy ilk. These cunts couldn't get anywhere close to gaining support from the electorate.

 

It's a free run for Boris and that's dangerous. He will win this at a landslide but surely we can't vote for him in a GE? They've conducted an excellent and sustained smear campaign against Corbyn, who's so piss weak he couldn't counter it but it's all gone very wrong at Westminster.

[donsdaft]

The Labour Party have got get shot of Corbyn, but I'm not sure that they can now.

 

I might have just dreamed this but, the EU extension until 31st October, wasn't there a review somewhere halfway along where the EU could withdraw the extension if they felt nothing was being done?

 

Nobody's talked about it since so I could have just made it up.

 

It would be fuckin hilarious if the Guffs were thrown out.

[RicoS321]

They've conducted an excellent and sustained smear campaign against Corbyn, who's so piss weak he couldn't counter it but it's all gone very wrong at Westminster.

 

This. In fairness to him, the media - including yer left of centre media (Guardian etc) - have offered him little air time to combat anything. It was notable that his population increased at last election time when he was actually given time to discuss policy. Labour will need far more than that though if they are to win a general election. It's a strange one. I expect a lot of people would support many of Corbyn's policies (many wouldn't, of course). If you replaced Corbyn with Starmer or Thornberry (for example) then you'd lose the policies too I expect; moving central, blurring the lines between Labour and Lib Dems. It gets to the heart of what the purpose of the Labour party is. I don't think it's that nuanced any more. To me, yer Thornberrys and Watsons serve very little purpose - the political candidate equivalent of avoiding the question: "We are not the Torys" being their strongest selling point. I'm not a Labour or Corbyn supporter mind, I just find it intriguing that we/they have such a personal focus on an individual at the expense of what could be a decent set of policies that encapsulate what the Labour party was traditionally set up to represent. If I were a Labour MP and I believed in Corbyn's policies, then I'd be dragging him kicking and screaming over the line if I thought he were incompetent in the understanding that the policies and party were far more important than the leader. That doesn't seem to be happening, which suggests that either the Labour MPs are incapable of doing that or that they don't believe in the policy/manifesto. In reality, no MP should need to be led by anyone if they're even remotely competent as an individual. They should all be leaders. Rather, it seems that they may all be careerists like they're Tory counterparts. Oh well, FPTP anyway; total horseshite.

[rocket_scientist]

This. In fairness to him, the media - including yer left of centre media (Guardian etc) - have offered him little air time to combat anything.

 

Yes. The reality is that the smear campaign started from day one and it was perpetrated by the media, the whole media and nothing but the media. Which begs the question, who are the media?

 

They, like the tories are instruments of the "owners of the free world". They are not independent. The press and TV are owned by scum sympathetic to the "globalist" agenda. Proper investigative journalism doesn't exist for the masses, who's imagination doesn't extend beyond the mass media. It's a simple strategy designed to conceal and obfuscate the truth and for the most part, it's worked. Thus far. The screaming gluepots who are up for succeeding May are a step too far though.

[RicoS321]

But is it as a result of his policies, or the man himself? Can you separate the two and continue with one and not the other? Or would that result in the same coverage, replacing Corbyn with another person. Let's say Jess Phillips took on the Corbyn manifesto. A decent communicator, easily as good as yer best (of 10) Torys in most departments. Would she face the same thing? MacDonald would, obviously, but somebody outwith that - without the history/baggage. Again, it's bizarre that the is even a discussion to be honest. The BBC and it's fucking leader debates have a lot to answer for. At every opportunity it is their responsibility to shout down any comments about the personality and focus on the policy. I don't believe there is huge bias in their coverage, just wholescale incompetence and laziness. They allow themselves to be dictated by the stories in the press rather than take an objective look at the importance of each subject. Never allowing a discussion on a single topic to get deep enough to be understood by the average viewer. More harm than good in my opinion.

[wee toon red]

But is it as a result of his policies, or the man himself? Can you separate the two and continue with one and not the other? Or would that result in the same coverage, replacing Corbyn with another person. Let's say Jess Phillips took on the Corbyn manifesto. A decent communicator, easily as good as yer best (of 10) Torys in most departments. Would she face the same thing? MacDonald would, obviously, but somebody outwith that - without the history/baggage. Again, it's bizarre that the is even a discussion to be honest. The BBC and it's fucking leader debates have a lot to answer for. At every opportunity it is their responsibility to shout down any comments about the personality and focus on the policy. I don't believe there is huge bias in their coverage, just wholescale incompetence and laziness. They allow themselves to be dictated by the stories in the press rather than take an objective look at the importance of each subject. Never allowing a discussion on a single topic to get deep enough to be understood by the average viewer. More harm than good in my opinion.

 

Agreed. The personification of UK politics began a long time ago but it's gathered pace recently as we move more and more to assuming our position as the 51st state.

[Kowalski]

Dream scenario for me is BoJo winning the leadership contest, immediately facing (and losing) a vote of no confidence in parliament, becoming one of the shortest serving prime ministers ever.  Would be funny as fuck.

 

I don't think it's beyond possibility.

 

 

[donsdaft]

At the moment it's probably odds on.

 

Would Boris then win the election is the question.

[rocket_scientist]

But is it as a result of his policies, or the man himself? Can you separate the two and continue with one and not the other? Or would that result in the same coverage, replacing Corbyn with another person. Let's say Jess Phillips took on the Corbyn manifesto. A decent communicator, easily as good as yer best (of 10) Torys in most departments. Would she face the same thing? MacDonald would, obviously, but somebody outwith that - without the history/baggage.

 

As I said, the smear campaign started on day one, as I commented at the time: -

 

The whiff of decency in a politician and he gets slaughtered in the press.

 

He speaks sense. He's not an Eton fagboy. He's free to think, unsupported by the establishment.

 

So the fact that the establishment goes to extraordinary lengths to discredit him proves that independent free commentary is unwelcome.

 

It's the press and the corporatocracy that has bought power. Only because cunts like Cameron and Miliband and Boris and the rest of them are only interested in self, not community.

 

Yet the job description demands community. Cunts.

 

Blair was (supposedly) Labour but they never nobbled him because he was in the pocket of the deep state.

 

The anti-semitism smears are incredible and love him or loath him, Galloway hit the nail on the head about this.

 

 

Again, it's bizarre that the is even a discussion to be honest. The BBC and it's fucking leader debates have a lot to answer for. At every opportunity it is their responsibility to shout down any comments about the personality and focus on the policy. I don't believe there is huge bias in their coverage, just wholescale incompetence and laziness. They allow themselves to be dictated by the stories in the press rather than take an objective look at the importance of each subject. Never allowing a discussion on a single topic to get deep enough to be understood by the average viewer. More harm than good in my opinion.

 

I think you give the BBC too much leeway and I don't understand why the subject of a non-free press would be a "bizarre" discussion.

 

It's quite patently NOT "incompetence and laziness". Ok, it's not as obvious as Sky and that Kay Burley cow but the mainstream media - and most definitely including the BBC are owned, bought and paid for by the same interests who don't worry about killing people in pursuit of money.

[Jute]

At the moment it's probably odds on.

 

Would Boris then win the election is the question.

 

He would see off the Brexit party in the Tory heartlands and keep the Tory Party together. Whether that will be enough to secure a majority in the House of Commons is a different matter. I would expect him to be a disaster for the Tories in Scotland for example.

[Ten Caat]

He would see off the Brexit party in the Tory heartlands and keep the Tory Party together. Whether that will be enough to secure a majority in the House of Commons is a different matter. I would expect him to be a disaster for the Tories in Scotland for example.

 

Brexit Party cease to exist once Brexit happens. They are all natural Tory voters and are only protesting at Parliament's inability to deliver on what the referendum demanded they did. They won't want to split the Tory vote thereafter and let someone else in the back door in a subsequent General Election.

 

Boris as PM I think would be the man to ensure that the UK splits into it's constituent parts. We would definitely go our own way in a referendum and there's talk of a NI referendum being the only way to resolve the Brexit backstop question. With us gone I think there's a reasonable chance that they'd choose to join a united Ireland. Wales will get there in the end too

[donsdaft]

Nah

 

The Welsh are even bigger cowards than the Scots.

[RicoS321]

Bojo. Jesus christ.

[manc_don]

Who'd've thought that this day would come. Utter madness.

[tlg1903]

Really not surprised at all Manc, it's been coming since the eu ref result.

[tom_widdows]

Edging ever closer to 'hobo with a shotgun' territory

[Tyrant]

Who'd've thought that this day would come. Utter madness.

 

 

Everyone who voted Yes in 2014 for a start.

[RicoS321]

 

Everyone who voted Yes in 2014 for a start.

 

I voted Yes, but I only ever used the "England could even vote for Boris Johnson as PM and there's nothing Scotland could do to stop it" as a ridiculous example that would never actually come true.

[Ten Caat]

I voted Yes, but I only ever used the "England could even vote for Boris Johnson as PM and there's nothing Scotland could do to stop it" as a ridiculous example that would never actually come true.

 

I could probably just about stomach it if England had indeed voted for Boris as PM. However it was only 90000 or so Tory party members who have voted him as such

[Tyrant]

I voted Yes, but I only ever used the "England could even vote for Boris Johnson as PM and there's nothing Scotland could do to stop it" as a ridiculous example that would never actually come true.

 

 

Give yourself more credit min. Your worst case scenario prediction came true. 

[rocket_scientist]

I voted Yes, but I only ever used the "England could even vote for Boris Johnson as PM and there's nothing Scotland could do to stop it" as a ridiculous example that would never actually come true.

 

When and where did you give this "ridiculous example"?

[rocket_scientist]

This was quality.

 

https://brexitcentral.com/some-more-friendly-advice-from-me-for-boris-johnson/

 

Written by Austin Mitchell.

 

The next few weeks will see an outpouring of advice for Boris Johnson. All the commentators who’ve spent the last few weeks denouncing him as a walking disaster, womaniser and serial liar will rush to tell him to redeem himself by doing what they want. Which makes me, as someone impartially opposed to his politics, who found him good fun and a chance for a new start in our deadlocked nation, feel justified in offering my more friendly advice.

 

Britain’s only human politician who finds himself in a deep hole deserves it. A new Prime Minister will have a short honeymoon before the carping commentariat get back to grinding their axes. Anyone is better than Theresa, and it will be nice to have a human in charge instead of a badly-programmed robot. The Conservative Party will rally round with its usual mixture of loyalty and and grovelling servility. The electorate will like a new start out of a deadlock which frustrates them. So use that happy period – the only one you’ll get now that misery has become the national mood – to make a real new start and rally the people. They’re fed up with bickering deadlock and the long rearguard action of the recalcitrant Remainers. They can’t see why nothing has been done about their vote to Leave. A new Prime Minister and a new Government can’t be doomed to pushing Theresa’s deal for a fourth time. It’s dead, deceased, and inoperable. So it’s right to demand a new negotiation from the EU which they’ll probably refuse, saying Theresa’s is as far as they’ll go. That puts them on the wrong foot. React by doing the old Macmillan trick: announce the end of austerity, more borrowing and turn the spigots on to boost the economy. Then call an early election. That makes it shit or bust, but the lesson of Gordon Brown is that it’s better than struggling on with no majority and no mandate. A government with a majority of two can’t carry on. You have no alternative. The Remainers are wrong footed and (for the moment at least) Labour is in a mess which can’t be cleared up quickly.

 

A leader determined on Brexit can undercut Farage’s party, while the Lib Dems are still tainted by the Coalition and their support for the euro. The excitement would delay the onslaught of carping which builds as the honeymoon ends. Denounce the intransigence of the EU. Show that “No Deal” would be its fault, ask for the nation’s backing for a fair deal, wave the patriotic banner, bash Corbyn and Boris can win. Then go back to the EU with new proposals which should include a promise never to impose a customs border in Northern Ireland, leaving them free to incur the odium if they want to. Add in a dollop of criticism of the damage agricultural protectionism does to developing countries, a promise of full rights to EU migrants who can support themselves and whatever covert trade deals we’ve been able to arrange against EU rules. Don’t threaten overtly not to pay Theresa’s ransom money – that will only unite them; just keep it covert, indicating that we’ve got to be prosperous to pay up. That’s a high-risk strategy. But Boris is a risk-taker and what’s the alternative? Only humiliating rejection by a stultifying EU, a long, whimpering failure as the country slumps back into bickering decline and a fun Prime Minister turns pathetic.

[donsdaft]

Yass min, fuck you Trump

 

[rocket_scientist]

I must say that I admire the bomb that Boris has thrown into the room. By prorogating Parliament, he's taking a risk for sure but it's a calculated one and I think he could pull it off. For a start, the opposition are so weak and the whingeing likes of Corbyn and Sturgeon et al cut no statesmen mustard. Also, the overall trust in politicians has never been lower so for someone to act firmly and decisively, as if they know what they're doing, is something radical in the modern era. I think the people will be all for it.