DT Politics Thread

[RicoS321]

I must say that I admire the bomb that Boris has thrown into the room. By prorogating Parliament, he's taking a risk for sure but it's a calculated one and I think he could pull it off. For a start, the opposition are so weak and the whingeing likes of Corbyn and Sturgeon et al cut no statesmen mustard. Also, the overall trust in politicians has never been lower so for someone to act firmly and decisively, as if they know what they're doing, is something radical in the modern era. I think the people will be all for it.

 

What does that (bold) even mean? Boris projects a bumbling idiot. Is that statesmanlike? Does it still matter?

 

It's certainly interesting gamesmanship. It's difficult to tell whether people will think he's acting decisively or if he's hiding from parliament like he (correctly) hid from the interviews in the leadership contest. I suspect whatever the Sun and the Mail class it as will be the line most people take. I can see a general election being the outcome. Whether it will be pre 31/10 will be the only key element.

[rocket_scientist]

A leader that people can trust is the most important thing that matters when it comes to winning the next General Election. Given how weak the opposition are, I can't see anything but a Boris landslide. Farage's party are now an irrelevance as Boris is as anti-EU as their party name, the only mandate they stand on. By citing crime, health, education, living standards etc., he's projecting "getting on with it", something Theresa Robot was spectacularly inept in. In order to "get on with it", he needs a mandate and support and so he WANTS a General Election the sooner the better. Corbyn is dead. He had a chance but he blew it. Labour are unelectable, in that there is zero chance that England will return them as the majority party. Boris's high profile endorser, Trump, has rewritten the rules. Time will tell if their policies bear fruit but the one thing that is certain is that they've become the only vote winners in their respective sorry races.

[rocket_scientist]

One huge benefit of this has been the elimination of Ruth Davidson. So much for party politics, she allowed a personality clash to ruin her "career". She's another weak as piss professional politician who has nothing to say, never having had an original thought in its life. Good riddance.

[RicoS321]

A leader that people can trust is the most important thing that matters when it comes to winning the next General Election.

 

BJ is a demonstrable liar and charlatan. He should not be trusted based on his previous record. If someone told him tomorrow that revoking article 50 would gaurantee him an election victory, he'd do it. He is principleless. I agree with you about Davidson, and I'd argue that Johnson and Trump are the perfect extrapolation of that politician that we've been heading towards for years. They don't bother with truth or consistency, they don't bother even attempting to hide the fact that they are liars. They don't even bother to bluster around the awkward questions, because they know that it doesn't matter. It's impressive.

 

 

Given how weak the opposition are, I can't see anything but a Boris landslide. Farage's party are now an irrelevance as Boris is as anti-EU as their party name, the only mandate they stand on. By citing crime, health, education, living standards etc., he's projecting "getting on with it", something Theresa Robot was spectacularly inept in. In order to "get on with it", he needs a mandate and support and so he WANTS a General Election the sooner the better. Corbyn is dead. He had a chance but he blew it. Labour are unelectable, in that there is zero chance that England will return them as the majority party. Boris's high profile endorser, Trump, has rewritten the rules. Time will tell if their policies bear fruit but the one thing that is certain is that they've become the only vote winners in their respective sorry races.

 

I think you could be right. I don't see a landslide for Boris as there are enough people that hate him, but the biggest minority and easily able to form a majority.

[rocket_scientist]

BJ is a demonstrable liar and charlatan. He should not be trusted based on his previous record.

 

What previous record? That he made shit up when working for the Guardian? Who cares?

 

It doesn't matter what you and I think. You're right in that personality politics (and celebrity culture) means that we've got the political climate that we were inevitably heading for but when we have such a void of good, honest, electable people to choose from, this is what we get. The sheeple want a shepherd and Trump and Boris come across as being more capable than any other BECAUSE of their bluster. The people have been dumbed down so far now that truth and principles don't matter as much as "shepherding". He talks tough ergo he's the right man. It's a world gone nuts.

[RicoS321]

What previous record? That he made shit up when working for the Guardian? Who cares?

 

It was the telegraph I think, but no, his record as a politician and as mayor (and probably his entire life).

 

It doesn't matter what you and I think. You're right in that personality politics (and celebrity culture) means that we've got the political climate that we were inevitably heading for but when we have such a void of good, honest, electable people to choose from, this is what we get. The sheeple want a shepherd and Trump and Boris come across as being more capable than any other BECAUSE of their bluster. The people have been dumbed down so far now that truth and principles don't matter as much as "shepherding". He talks tough ergo he's the right man. It's a world gone nuts.

 

Aye, that's about it.

[Ten Caat]

Don't think we have seen the last of Davidson. I suspect she will give up her seat at the next Scottish elections and spend a few years raising her son. She's still very young politics wise and I think she will reappear in 6 or 7 years parachuted into a safe Tory seat in southern England and may very well end up leader of the Tories in 10/12 years.

 

For now, I fully expect Boris to call an election for November as a way of breaking the impasse over Brexit. He'll lose a handful of seats up here (between 3 and 5 I suspect) but more than make up for it down south as disaffected Leave voters with incumbent Labour MP's but in constituencies that voted Leave take their revenge. In the interim, we will leave without a deal as the Norn Irn backstop issue just doesn't have a satisfactory short term resolution right now. May well lead to a return of a hard border for a time and expect a concomitant return of terrorist action. Longer term, a plebiscite will be held and the 2 Irelands will reunite (which I suspect is Boris' ideal outcome anyway).

[Kowalski]

Don't think we have seen the last of Davidson. I suspect she will give up her seat at the next Scottish elections and spend a few years raising her son. She's still very young politics wise and I think she will reappear in 6 or 7 years parachuted into a safe Tory seat in southern England and may very well end up leader of the Tories in 10/12 years.

 

For now, I fully expect Boris to call an election for November as a way of breaking the impasse over Brexit. He'll lose a handful of seats up here (between 3 and 5 I suspect) but more than make up for it down south as disaffected Leave voters with incumbent Labour MP's but in constituencies that voted Leave take their revenge. In the interim, we will leave without a deal as the Norn Irn backstop issue just doesn't have a satisfactory short term resolution right now. May well lead to a return of a hard border for a time and expect a concomitant return of terrorist action. Longer term, a plebiscite will be held and the 2 Irelands will reunite (which I suspect is Boris' ideal outcome anyway).

 

Agree with some of this but Davidson has shafted Boris, they might lose all their seats North of the Border, and all seats will probably go to the SNP and Lib Dems.  Happy days.  South of the border there will be alliances between remain parties which will minimise the damage that these Eton cunts could do to the country.  They might be leading in the polls but I just can't see them getting a majority at all.

 

That said, I think a vote of no confidence followed by temporary government (possibly not with Corbyn at the helm) and extension of Brexit date is most likely option.  Unless a legal move is successful.

[Tyrant]

Agree with some of this but Davidson has shafted Boris, they might lose all their seats North of the Border, and all seats will probably go to the SNP and Lib Dems.  Happy days.  South of the border there will be alliances between remain parties which will minimise the damage that these Eton cunts could do to the country.  They might be leading in the polls but I just can't see them getting a majority at all.

 

That said, I think a vote of no confidence followed by temporary government (possibly not with Corbyn at the helm) and extension of Brexit date is most likely option.  Unless a legal move is successful.

 

You know what would have minimised the damage those Eton cunts can do to our country? Not voting against Scottish independence.

[rocket_scientist]

Boris playing a blinder here.

 

For reasons most wouldn't understand.

 

Fuck the people and fuck the politicians.

 

Boris has the right vision.

 

Farage and Trump see the truth too.

[wee toon red]

Boris playing a blinder here.

 

For reasons most wouldn't understand.

 

Fuck the people and fuck the politicians.

 

Boris has the right vision.

 

Farage and Trump see the truth too.

 

The only truth that any of those arseholes understand is that there are enough ignorant racists in their respective electorates who will happily go along with their lies to elect them.

[donsdaft]

Well I would much rather have had another referendum, but if it’s an election then it’s an election.

Hopefully the brain dead English proletariat find something on the telly that keeps them at home this next election day.

[Kowalski]

It’s all about the election. Cummings will lose BoJo everything.

[Elgindon]

If we've got time for an election would it not be simpler to allow us a vote on the type of Brexit we want instead?  eg,No deal,....May's deal,...a n other deal. Too simplistic. ? More democratic,keeps the sleekit manouvering out of it.

[rocket_scientist]

I wonder how many of the English protester Stop Brexit eccentrics have done their due diligence?

 

I wonder if the SNP have done the maths either?

 

As they all have such a definite position, they can't have failed to.

 

Why don't they just lay out how not paying the unelected EU cunts £50m a day will harm us? They know that leaving the EU will be a "disaster" and yet they don't explain how the implications of exiting will cost more than £350m per week?

 

As for that Aidan lawyer cunt, what an embarrassment to Scotland. Bet he stinks. The government are taking control to get the job done, to deliver what the people voted for. The SNP are getting this very wrong. Independence should be from England AND from the EU.

[Ten Caat]

Boris treating what's happening later today/tomorrow as a confidence vote thus allowing him to call an election. And what I'm finding utterly bizarre is that quite a number of Labour MP's who have been on TV today are saying that they'll vote down having an election (apparently under the new rules two thirds of MP's must vote in favour of an election for it to happen outwith the Fixed Term Parliament arrangements).

 

I couldn't envisage a better time for Labour. The Brexit Party will be fielding candidates in most constituencies down south and will cream off some of the natural Tory vote and could allow Labour (or Lib Dem) to sneak wins in constituencies which up to now wouldn't even be considered marginal.

 

Big winners  in all this are the SNP who will increase their number of MP's and still have a mandate for a new referendum when Britain inevitably does leave the EU via whatever method it happens under.

[rocket_scientist]

I couldn't envisage a better time for Labour.

 

This is because you fail to see that Corbyn's stock has turned to shit. The man is unelectable, even by the non-thinking classes who always vote the way their parents told them to (on both sides).

 

It wasn't just the unfair hatchet job (by the media and other vested interests), it's because he's a cardigan with zero leadership qualities.

[rocket_scientist]

Paxman did a programme on why are our politicians so crap. One thing that proved the stupidity of the electorate was when he put blue and rosettes on these pigs. They were BIG fuck-off pigs by the way. Something like two thirds of all the 650+ constituencies keep getting voted in the same, the safe seats for over 60 or 70 years or something.

[Tyrant]

Boris treating what's happening later today/tomorrow as a confidence vote thus allowing him to call an election. And what I'm finding utterly bizarre is that quite a number of Labour MP's who have been on TV today are saying that they'll vote down having an election (apparently under the new rules two thirds of MP's must vote in favour of an election for it to happen outwith the Fixed Term Parliament arrangements).

 

I couldn't envisage a better time for Labour. The Brexit Party will be fielding candidates in most constituencies down south and will cream off some of the natural Tory vote and could allow Labour (or Lib Dem) to sneak wins in constituencies which up to now wouldn't even be considered marginal.

 

Big winners  in all this are the SNP who will increase their number of MP's and still have a mandate for a new referendum when Britain inevitably does leave the EU via whatever method it happens under.

 

 

Not convinced that's true. I had a look at the poll data earlier today. Admittedly I didn't look closely at every constituency but of those I did Unionist parties (Labour/Tories/Lib Dem/ and let's assume Brexit too) outnumber pro Indy parties (SNP and Greens). Indy still seems a depressingly long way off.

 

I'm patiently waiting to find out Sturgeon's plan. I admit I'm starting to wonder if she even has one. I thought the same about Corbyn. I assumed incorrectly for a long time that he had a plan. He didn't. He's a fucking chocolate teapot. I hope Sturgeon isn't the same. The SNP must promise to disband in the event of a Yes vote.

[rocket_scientist]

Sturgeon is an unpleasant wee wifie. The only thing I agree with her on is independence from Westminster. It's because she's so shite that a record no. of Scots voted Tory in the last GE. I mean, Ruth D, David M and Jackson C? These are the worst "Scots" in living memory. Let alone the man molesting NE Ross cunt. Poof.

[RicoS321]

 

Not convinced that's true. I had a look at the poll data earlier today. Admittedly I didn't look closely at every constituency but of those I did Unionist parties (Labour/Tories/Lib Dem/ and let's assume Brexit too) outnumber pro Indy parties (SNP and Greens). Indy still seems a depressingly long way off.

 

I'm patiently waiting to find out Sturgeon's plan. I admit I'm starting to wonder if she even has one. I thought the same about Corbyn. I assumed incorrectly for a long time that he had a plan. He didn't. He's a fucking chocolate teapot. I hope Sturgeon isn't the same. The SNP must promise to disband in the event of a Yes vote.

 

To be fair to Sturgeon, she really has to let this Brexit mess play itself out and she has to be seen to be against a no deal, even though that would be the quickest way to independence. The problem that both Corbyn and Sturgeon have is that the date keeps getting kicked down the road. The longer the impasse on Brexit, the more the [remain] electorate get pissed off with Sturgeon and Corbyn for not doing anything - despite the fact that there is absolutely nothing they can do outwith power and anything they do actually do will be used against them. They're both sitting waiting for the Tories to fuck it all up, but the longer you do that, the more people think that you are dithering. It doesn't help that we've had three years of minute-by-minute coverage.

[rocket_scientist]

To be fair to Sturgeon, she really has to let this Brexit mess play itself out and she has to be seen to be against a no deal, even though that would be the quickest way to independence.

 

The only way that she CAN be against no deal is if she KNOWS that this would be counterproductive to our interests.

 

We know that she's against it. We don't know why she is so anti because she has failed to spell it out, beyond the "loss of jobs" and other lines she spins, none of which has been backed up. Why is her crystal ball so robust, one might ask?

 

She's against Brexit full stop of course. My guess is that she is taking the opportunity to play party politics. If she genuinely wants a Scotland free from England but remaining in the EU, God help us. More than a third of us in Scotland voted out of the EU. The other 62%, including my own children, are too stupid to be allowed a vote on this issue.

[RicoS321]

The only way that she CAN be against no deal is if she KNOWS that this would be counterproductive to our interests.

 

We know that she's against it. We don't know why she is so anti because she has failed to spell it out, beyond the "loss of jobs" and other lines she spins, none of which has been backed up. Why is her crystal ball so robust, one might ask?

 

She's against Brexit full stop of course. My guess is that she is taking the opportunity to play party politics. If she genuinely wants a Scotland free from England but remaining in the EU, God help us. More than a third of us in Scotland voted out of the EU. The other 62%, including my own children, are too stupid to be allowed a vote on this issue.

 

Obviously you can't back up "loss of jobs" other than by predicting what you would do if you were in a UK company's shoes that has no physical reason to be in the UK (banking v O&G for example). There's no science behind it, just forecast. If it were me, I'd move my company to the EU (my company relies on UK business, so not possible), for obvious logical reasons. Any employees of mine would be, thus, canned. It's basic business sense if your market is the EU or the US or China and if you're responsible to shareholders then you'd have to have a damned good reason for not moving. The thing about no deal is that it isn't just: 1st November - done. There will be a deal, because that is how trade is done globally these days whether you or I like it (I don't) or need it (I don't). Until the point a deal is done, an existing business has to jump through additional hoops under WTO that didn't exist previously. The charlatan will then have to negotiate his fantastic new deal with 27 new countries, which will take him a fucking age because he's an inept charlatan cunt and so are his surrounding Tory cunts. Sure as fuck I wouldn't be hanging around as a company for the shitfest of a deal that the EU let him have at the end of it. Given the fact that WTO rules require a border with another "trading bloc" (nae really what the EU is, but it deals as such) then it's likely that only a temporary waiver will be given before Ireland is split in two, with the knock on effect that the US will tell us to go and fuck ourselves for ruining the good Friday agreement (easier to blame us than the EU). Either way, a deal with the US isn't an overnight thing. WTO shouldn't be an issue there for normal business cunts like you or me, but some of the big companies I work for will happily walk [from the UK] if the EU gets a trade deal with Canada, the US or China whilst still being on WTO with the others as its just good business sense. So very, very likely that there will be job losses and very likely that they will be significant. Good opportunities too, of course, just not likely as significant in the 5 -10 year time. In my opinion, job-losses shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Brexit. You can choose to look after your unemployed or not, it's rare that you get the opportunity to re-define your political make-up (I don't believe that is what existing Brexit does).   

[donsdaft]

Nobody takes my European citizenship away from me.

[rocket_scientist]

Nobody takes my European citizenship away from me.

 

The one that we weren't born with?

 

The "citizenship" that creates jobs... for unelected Europeans in Europe.

 

A membership of a project that is designed to exploit you and me?

 

To the tune of £50,000,000 a day for those of us who are British.

 

And we ARE British because the Scots were too stupid to vote for independence.