Arabs, uprisings, hate and corruption

[rocket_scientist]

Cairo wasn't the place to be today for champions of humanity and peace.

 

 

The state that can murder its own people in cold blood is a sick and corrupt regime.

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves that this is something happening somewhere else, like we're not involved and it's nothing to do with us. Egypt isn't quite as clear-cut, potent and dangerous as elsewhere in the Arabian world such as Syria, Iran and Israel/Palestine but people being slaughtered by persons acting under government mandates is another sad day for all of us.

 

 

You don't get the full picture from the BBC or Sky. Al Jazeera, France 24 and Russia Today are far superior news reporting channels.

 

 

Religion is a smokescreen. Human atrocities come from human atrociousness. There's much of it.

 

 

The arabs and the jews are the oldest warring factions. They will be responsible for the fate of the world.

 

 

[Tyrant]

Very sad and worrying state of affairs right enough. I read that a camera man was shot dead by a sniper. I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often to be honest.

[maverick sheep]

Happens frequently, but the journo was working for sky so it was reported here. Not just actual journos either. For eg:

 

 

Oh aye. The UK sold a shitload of sniper rifles to Egypt in 2012. Blood on our hands for tolerating our Tory/Lab/Lib Dem over lords.

[manc_don]

Weapons industry is a fucking horrible line of work. I dare say a lot of nations have blood on their hands. Terrible scenes in Cairo right enough, can't say im optimistic about how it will end.

[rocket_scientist]

They've arrested the leader of the Muslim brotherhood now, apparently. Let's think about that for a moment.

 

 

A guy who is opposed to whoever is in charge of the army, and therefore whoever is in charge of the country if it's not already in army rule, stands under the banner of religion.

 

 

This is 2013. Religion, any religion, does not provide all the answers. It provides none of the answers quite frankly in my opinion but does have value as it provides a crude spiritual framework and alludes to the questions that science can't even recognise, far less examine.

 

 

The fact that he stands under one religion - in this case, Islam - suggests that he has rejected all other religions and therefore he smacks of fundamentalism and the associated intolerance that comes with this.

 

 

What a fucking mess. All caused by thickness and sickness. Meantime, innocent people continue to get slaughtered.

 

 

[mizer]

Saudi has promised to fill any funding gap the EU & US pull out so this will continue. With all factions of Islam fighting each other it makes me wonder if some superplan has been put in operation by the US....very unlikley as they are idiots. Most likely the jews Israel.

[bloo_toon_red]

Saudi has promised to fill any funding gap the EU & US pull out so this will continue. With all factions of Islam fighting each other it makes me wonder if some superplan has been put in operation by the US....very unlikley as they are idiots. Most likely the jews Israel.

 

Divide & conquer by proxy.

One thing is for sure, US and UK will not want Egypt overrun by Islamic zealots.

 

The Muslim Brotherhood is effectively the Egyptian version of Hezbollah or Hamas, complete with its paramilitary wing, and pretty much a stick-on for being responsible for the Luxor massacre 15 yrs ago.  Ayman al Zawahiri is understood to be a sympathiser and is that a good thing?  The Muslim Brotherhood has always stood for a stricter stance on Sharia law.  Does Egypt need this?

 

I'm no expert on Middle Eastern politics but look at what these groups have carried out in Lebanon, Syria and Israel and consider what the implementation of MB policies could do to Egypt, widely regarded as one of the more moderate Islamic nations.

 

I'm more and more coming around to the belief that the whole "Arab Spring" is in reality a shroud to supplant Al-Qaeda puppets into power in moderate countries.  The west I believe has become susceptible to brainwashing in the battle of good vs evil in Syria.  I reckon Western governemnts have got it terribly wrong there and are trying to manage the embarrassment of backing the Al Qaeda supported rebels.

[Andrew]

Divide & conquer by proxy.

One thing is for sure, US and UK will not want Egypt overrun by Islamic zealots.

 

The Muslim Brotherhood is effectively the Egyptian version of Hezbollah or Hamas, complete with its paramilitary wing, and pretty much a stick-on for being responsible for the Luxor massacre 15 yrs ago.  Ayman al Zawahiri is understood to be a sympathiser and is that a good thing?  The Muslim Brotherhood has always stood for a stricter stance on Sharia law.  Does Egypt need this?

 

I'm no expert on Middle Eastern politics but look at what these groups have carried out in Lebanon, Syria and Israel and consider what the implementation of MB policies could do to Egypt, widely regarded as one of the more moderate Islamic nations.

 

I'm more and more coming around to the belief that the whole "Arab Spring" is in reality a shroud to supplant Al-Qaeda puppets into power in moderate countries.  The west I believe has become susceptible to brainwashing in the battle of good vs evil in Syria.  I reckon Western governemnts have got it terribly wrong there and are trying to manage the embarrassment of backing the Al Qaeda supported rebels.

 

 

Of course they have. They have been giving supplies to the rebels in the same vain as the US gave weapons to mujahideen in Afganistan. We really should be supporting the government in Syria though. Although they are bastards at least they are not mentalists and, as a country we can trade and do business with them well. But really why do we have to get involved in these conflicts in any respect? I find it terribly embarrassing that whenever some global event happens, such as the arab spring, William Hague comes out and gives the UK's position like it matters to anyone. We really need to stop interfering in other countries affairs, take a neutral stance in conflict and take the position that is best for UK trade.

[mizer]

I'm more and more coming around to the belief that the whole "Arab Spring" is in reality a shroud to supplant Al-Qaeda puppets into power in moderate countries. 

 

 

Boko haram or fit ever they are were involved in the Lybian uprising before the oil well attack and trying to take over Mali so it fits in. Turkey is also heading that way after being a secular society for years.

[Andrew]

 

 

What worries me more is that World war 3 might just be around the corner, i dont think nukes would be used, that all depends on How stupid Iran/North Korea are. But there is defo a lot of countries in the west and their goverments worried on the inside with this proliferation of islamists.

 

Syria,

 

This is a mess, not only do you have the CIA / Mi6 involved their you also have Isrealis own secret service, and Iranian ones now too, all fighting each other to win, innocent people in Syria are killing each other for what?

 

Its not about over throwing the goverment now, the rebels" or Al-quaeda are just hanging on. The west will not get involved until the goverment of syria really uses chemical or other mass destruction weapons, thats where the US will just carpet bomb the syrian army back to the 5th century.

 

Egypt,

 

havent really bothered to look into why they are fighting the muslim brotherhood, but the democratic Egyptians must have been worried about something to go all offensive against them. The west should be publicly backing this goverment and denouncing terrorists not supplying arms that one day will kill westerners. (the sky camera man was warned fully of the dangers he imposed on himself when filming)

 

The whole arab spring is a smoke screen by Iran to try and get countries closer to hitting the UK with missiles (im sure if Lybia or Egypt fell to iranian backed muppets they would smuggle these missiles there pronto.)

 

 

Do you think? I don't think Iran are either that stupid or crazy. They care far too much about self preservation and don't care nearly as much about what the UK are doing to do anything like that imo.

[rocket_scientist]

What worries me more is that World war 3 might just be around the corner, i dont think nukes would be used, that all depends on How stupid Iran/North Korea are. But there is defo a lot of countries in the west and their goverments worried on the inside with this proliferation of islamists.

Not sure about your concluding conclusion but with this bit, I totally agree.

 

 

I also wonder if it's going to be the old enemies USA v Russia that kick it all off, Russia having Chinese and Asian support, the US sucking in NATO.

 

 

The reason why the old enemies might take the kick off is because they are precariousy positioned just now, funding covert operations in opposition to each other in many corners of the globe currently.

 

 

Ironic that the old enemies might start it, but the oldest enemies, the arabs and the jews made it happen, creating the climate of suppression, injustice and intolerance from which the civil unrest sprang.

 

 

That Saddam had a lid on the arab differences, enforcing with discrimination and his own brand of genocide and injustice but once you take the lid off and give the oppressed a sniff of freedom, all hell breaks loose.

 

 

This is not to justify the original oppression. It's obvious that the agitators for change in that part of the world - the US and the jews - never thought it all through. The fact that they acted in bad faith, for reasons that included (or were wholly motivated by) exploitation of resources for commercial gain was short-termism beyond belief. Even the contractors they poured public money towards were all part of it. Stealing from your own to make others of your same nation fat is madness in its own but the price that we all may have to pay for it could be a price that we can ill afford.

[Andrew]

Self preservation is the key though. No one is willing to sacrifice the cost of their nation and people to start a WWIII any more. It would need much more of a key to start it than a few under cover operations.

 

 

There were proxy wars during the cold war, where relations between russia and the US were much worse, where a world war was not started. I don't think in the situation we are in now a world war would start where it didn't before.

[rocket_scientist]

Self preservation is the key though. No one is willing to sacrifice the cost of their nation and people to start a WWIII any more. It would need much more of a key to start it than a few under cover operations.

 

 

There were proxy wars during the cold war, where relations between russia and the US were much worse, where a world war was not started. I don't think in the situation we are in now a world war would start where it didn't before.

 

 

There aren't too many debates and arguments where we hope that the other side has got it right and that we have got it wrong but this is one of the rare examples.

 

 

Your greater optimism that WWIII is less likely in the modern era contrasts with the way I was trained to think, always having to identify and anticipate the worst case scenario.

 

 

For clarification, my rationale for possible kick off was not just that they are engaged in covert operations - as they always have been - but because "they are precariously positioned just now", exactly as I said.

 

 

The nature of the covert, invisible wars between the US and Russia include known hotpsots in Pakistan, Afghanastan, Palestine/Israel, Syria, Libya, Iran, Iraq, even the Ukranian pipeline stand-off but the difference nowadays is that the muslim peoples have been fuelled with hatred towards the US that is manifesting itself in an intensity that the world has never experienced before.

 

 

This is where the precariousness comes in. It only takes one gross act of terror against the jews in Israel by an organisation or militia that US intelligence knows has been Russian-financed for the roof to cave in on any possible diplomatic or rational solution. The blind hatred that the US and the west has rightfully earned for many decades of hypocrisy and exploitative, disgraceful actions towards the arab peoples will be mirrored by a blind need to retaliate, perhaps with shock and awe again.

 

 

If the Aipac-infuenced USA take the wrong turn at the wrong time, it could prove fatal to world peace. I see no possibility of the Russians or Chinese starting a war. Any possibility of such, I see as a reaction to an over-reaction.

[Superstar Tradesman]

You can forget a world war between all the superpowers in this day and age.  There's far too much to be gained by arming other nations to knock the shit out of each other, whilst they supposedly sit on the fence and watch the mayhem.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

What I don't get is Hague's rhetoric about al-Assad. Since when did he turn into this evil monster and why?

 

 

This tall educated former ally with the English wife has turned into persona non grata and I never saw it.

 

 

Don't tell me the west are hanging him out to dry for aims that they consider justifiable.

 

 

The propaganda is notable for its vehemence and its incredulity.

 

 

[mizer]

Westminster recalled over the Syria situation http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23851292

[rocket_scientist]

I have no idea about the truth of this and whether it actually appeared in that rag in January or whether it's a photoshopped fake but it smacks not only of being a possibility, but the probable origin of this chemical attack may have had US fingerprints all over it.

 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130130091742/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270219/U-S-planned-launch-chemical-weapon-attack-Syria-blame-Assad.html

 

 

This is all too predictable. Western militaries getting ready to respond for humanitarian reasons? Fuck off.

[mizer]

Can see that happening as the Americans dont want to go in, the rebels to drawn in the West since they are now losing I can see.

[Kowalski]

I see the Middle East PEACE Envoy Tony Bliar is advocating military action.

 

 

[Dandy_Don]

I also wonder if it's going to be the old enemies USA v Russia that kick it all off, Russia having Chinese and Asian support, the US sucking in NATO.

 

 

 

I think this is a possibility. The weakness Obama has shown has opened the floodgates... He can't even get the British to go along now...

[mizer]

Hes going to stumble along dragging his arms on the ground waiting for possibly the French to do something, or worse, a new chemical attack on a massive scale.

 

Lets hope its on anywhere near Israel ! that would be WW3 right there. especially if Israel respond with nukes.

 

French were the main force who toppled Libya, the UK were just fannying around.

[baggy89]

have to disagree with this, if this was even the remotely possible this is true, and those leaked emails are out there, would the white house and Britain not back down

 

This is more sinister, what if it was Iranian troops doing the attacking to suck the Americans in to give them the green light to attack Israel ?

 

 

The mercans have been backing one side or another and running special forces interference in conflicts throughout the Middle East without "getting involved" since since some slitty eyed midgets blasted the shit out of them from their rice paddys in the 60's.

 

 

Did the Western media and governments not report 1300 fatalities from the chemical attack, but the aid agencies involved reported less than 300 casualties.

 

 

As far as the Iranians go, the mercans have been poking them with a big stick for a while as they need a war there to free the Iranian people (of their rights to any money from their Haliburton's* Oil Fields)

 

 

*or whomever are backing this administration.

 

 

As for the French, insignificant people are insignificant. Would you go to war alongside an country whose armed forces may go on strike at the merest hint of having to work 40 hours in a week... Fuck me the French Special Forces are called the French Foreign Legion for a reason.   

 

 

Regardless of all this, what kind of idiot would actually start a war with their biggest customers. A WW3 kicking off between the Arab Nations, China and Russia V the West only serves two nations. It'd be like KFC and Burger King goading McDonalds into killing a shit load of fat people from council estates.

 

 

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

The boy Kerry is mad. The further proof, beyond the shite that comes oot his moo, is to be seen by examining his eyes.

 

 

Many utterly insane people, in common with some who have taken too many illegal drugs and who's brains weren't robust enough to cope (or they got unlucky) exhibit the schizophrenic imbalance in their minds by having two faces. Look at one eye and you see one personality and look at the other and you see a completely different persona.

 

 

Gordon Brown is a pronounced example too but that Kerry is fucked. Always, one eye of the mad depicts the devil and usually, the other can be soft and benign. I've seen it most in the self made rich, those who have come from nothing, who are ill-educated and who have stomped on heads all their lives and gorged themselves on their own greed. That in itself is insane of course, to pursue money at the expense of one's own humanity. Pursue mad goals often enough and you will inevitably become mad. It's a legal madness of course. one that is encouraged by our institutions.

[rocket_scientist]

There's some more shit going down in Nairobi apparently. I've not even bothered to tune it. No idea who's doing the bombing, no idea what their beef is, no idea how it's being interpreted by the west. It doesn't even register on my care scales.

 

 

Is this because I'm all terror-ed out? Are these continuous boogie-men incidents having a counter effect? Have I been desensitised to wide scale human atrocities? Was this the plan all along?

 

 

My apathy to this one is scaring me, to be honest. Maybe if we started giving a fuck only about what is our business, we might not have lost billions in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. I still don't know why British cannon-fodder personnel lost their lives there.

 

 

That weak politician cunt was on the telly yesterday saying that it's a crime to hit a squaddie. What if he's being a dick in a pub - like many of them are - and is threatening to batter you? Seems like a weird trade-off to me. They're in the line of fire to lose their lives in places they should never be and they get to behave like arseholes and get immunity from the hiding they're sair needing, their social ineptitude and intelligence-defects being the principal drivers which got them into their menial paid shite jobs in the first place. Heroes my arse. Stupid fucks more like.

 

 

[Kowalski]

Somebody from Aberdeen fighting for ISIS:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27974840